FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #13

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Thanks I remember that now. The pepper spray was a good idea but you have me thinking. I understand she did NOT have it on her it was beside her bed or at least in her room at her condo? The reason offered I remember was of coming back from the trip or being tired or having her important meeting that day.

We are to believe she remembers to take the brother's friend phone but not her habitual pepper spray? Unlikely?

So let's say (for argument) the one day Jennifer did not have her pepper spray on her she goes missing. Odd no? What could that possibly mean I mean apart from the plausible but not convincing arguments we have heard?

Obviously it would fit with her being kidnapped in her condo unit that has not been a big theory of mine.

It fits with someone she absolutely trusts picking her up at her unit the night before knowing they are going to drive them right back to her unit.

Of course they found her car so I can't make that fit.

Any other ideas? What if the pepper spray is a huge clue?
 
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Pepper spray was on the kitchen bar. They theorize she took it off for the flight. If it were me I would have just left my keys at my boyfriends house or left the pepper spray at his house, but she chose to leave it in Orlando....Sometimes I wonder if she did things to appease her father because he was paranoid. Idk, just a thought but I know I was when I was in my late teens/early 20’s.

I think she was taken by someone she knew. They either showed up right after she got off the phone with Rob or she had plans to meet someone.

At this point we don’t even know where the crime scene is. Is it in her apartment? Outside her apartment in the common hall? Another apartment (yes, the open one besides her’s was searched with dogs and they didn’t hit)?, Sidewalk? Parking lot? Somewhere else? We know the car was wiped down. I’ve never saw anything about it being cleaned though. Car seems too clean to me for something that violent to go down in it. I remember he dad saying (I think on the guestbook) that he questions if she made it to the car. They didn’t find anything along the way to suggest a struggle. I’ve noticed Jennifer has long nails in her photos. Surely one would have broken if she would have been attacked. I personally think the crime occurred somewhere I didn’t list because she left with someone she knew or left on her own accord to meet someone.
 
I keep coming back to the knock at the door while she was on the phone with Rob Monday evening. She didn't answer and said it was a "neighbor". IMO she could have stretched the truth a bit to conceal the real identity of this person from Rob. Hmm.
Come to find out it wasn’t that evening. This is what Drew is saying on the go fund me:

“Jenn was on the phone with her childhood best friend at the time of the knock. Here’s what she says about it: It was relatively soon after she moved into the condo and someone knocked on the door. I am not exactly sure of the date, but I know it was not on the 23rd as I talked to her earlier that day. It was probably around 8/9 pm. I remember asking if she was going to check who it was and she said that she did not need to answer the door to anyone that late at night. She also told me another time one of her neighbors unexpectedly knocked on the door to introduce himself. She said he was nice enough but I think she was a little skeptical of everyone at this point because it was all new and Jenn approached everything and everyone with caution.”
 
wasn’t that her boss ?
I believe that’s the last known person to see her. He says that in the Greta Investigates.

'The Mysterious Disappearance of Jennifer Kesse,' Part 1

I’m going to assume they both stayed a little late that day, and the office must have been pretty empty for him to have made the assumption that he was the last person to see her. Maybe just no one else came forward... I’ve read that not all the employees there clocked in and out. There is also the toll time stamp that points to her staying after 5.

I wonder if the office had cameras and if they verified that the boss was the last one to see her. Someone could have still been at work and just not admitted to it...
 
We know that she had several conversations that night correct? So how is the fact he was the last person to see her matter?
 
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We know that she had several conversations that night correct? So how is the fact he was the last person to see her matter?

For me his comments led me to think that there could have been an opportunity for her to run into someone off the record after he left that evening. I think that could be important, especially if it was work related. I don’t suspect the boss, but other co workers have been on the radar.

You’re right though. She did talk on the phone a lot that evening. Her dad, brother, Travis, maybe her mother, best friend (I read some people comment to them talking about 2 hours but I don’t know their source), and her boyfriend. If they’re correct about her talking 2 hours to her best friend, she was pretty much on the phone the majority of that evening from when she got home until she said goodnight to Rob.
 
It appears there is some doubt about the pings from cell towers on the Monday evening. However is it definite definite that the batteries were removed from both phones after 10.00 some time on the Monday evening? If so why are we still open to the possibility of a morning abduction?
 
I think the reason the poi has not been identified is that he is not from Orlando.
 
It appears there is some doubt about the pings from cell towers on the Monday evening. However is it definite definite that the batteries were removed from both phones after 10.00 some time on the Monday evening? If so why are we still open to the possibility of a morning abduction?

The pings and cell phone data are not going to change. The phone pinged off whatever tower at whatever time. The way people interpret the pings is what is changing. You have to see where the towers were that the phone was pinging off of and draw the radius. Where the radiuses overlap that’s where the phone was. The locations weren’t as precise then as they are now because phones didn’t have gps.

I guess there is a very slight possibility in my mind that she turned both phones off, didn’t ever power hers back on, manage to get up on time, and get abducted in the morning. Plus there was no evidence of a struggle along the path from her condo door to her car and no evidence was left in her car. Wiping it down is way different than cleaning up stains... Plus no one saw or heard anything besides a black car driving erratically, and to be honest, people drive erratic all the time in a city so it doesn’t surprise me that someone saw a black car driving erratic. With that being said, I think she was abducted at night, very soon after she got off the phone with Rob.
 
Thanks I remember that now. The pepper spray was a good idea but you have me thinking. I understand she did NOT have it on her it was beside her bed or at least in her room at her condo? The reason offered I remember was of coming back from the trip or being tired or having her important meeting that day.

We are to believe she remembers to take the brother's friend phone but not her habitual pepper spray? Unlikely?

So let's say (for argument) the one day Jennifer did not have her pepper spray on her she goes missing. Odd no? What could that possibly mean I mean apart from the plausible but not convincing arguments we have heard?

Obviously it would fit with her being kidnapped in her condo unit that has not been a big theory of mine.

It fits with someone she absolutely trusts picking her up at her unit the night before knowing they are going to drive them right back to her unit.

Of course they found her car so I can't make that fit.

Any other ideas? What if the pepper spray is a huge clue?
I have pepper spray for safety and always end up leaving it home or in car (unless I feel particularly uneasy) because it’s clunky/large/annoying to deal with on keychain daily.
 
I have pepper spray for safety and always end up leaving it home or in car (unless I feel particularly uneasy) because it’s clunky/large/annoying to deal with on keychain daily.

I agree with Georgia8: Jennifer does not seem like the type of person who would forget anything; I suspect she didn't take it because she didn't feel she'd need it- as she was with someone she inherently trusted and whom she believed would protect her. Again, this leads me to believe she knew her attacker, and I think she went willingly at first, and then fought back -probably hard- when she realized what was happening to her. We need to keep in mind that Jennifer was quite the 'catch' - being so responsible and successful at such a young age, incredibly fit, gorgeous, squeaky clean (i.e., no arrests, no signs of drug or alcohol abuse), highly intelligent and mentally stable; not to disparage Florida women, but she was certainly 'a diamond in a sea of glass' (my relatives live in the Sanford area, so I've spent a lot of time there) whom many men -and many women too- would have wanted to date. She would have had her choice of many people - and I still get the feeling she was casually dating several guys...
 
I have pepper spray for safety and always end up leaving it home or in car (unless I feel particularly uneasy) because it’s clunky/large/annoying to deal with on keychain daily.

The following incident occurred before call phones were in common use: I used to be in law enforcement in Florida (in a very small town), but never had to use my pepper spray. I moved back to Chicago (where I'm from) to go to college (as an older, returning student). Well, I still had my old can of pepper spray, so I used to carry it with me just in case.

One day riding the 'El' a 40-something year-old male started threatening to rape and murder these two attractive 14 year-old girls as soon as they got into the train car. At one point everyone in that car (all elderly women) moved to the opposite end of the car from where the suspect and potential victims were. Then, the girls got up to move seats - one sat next to me, and the other behind me (at this point I knew something was going to happen, so I reached into my pocket and armed my pepper spray).

The suspect stood up and pulled out a large pocket knife, which he then opened and said to the girls, "I'm going to rape you both, kill you, cut you into pieces and send your heads to your mothers in a box". I told the girls to run to the end of the car (as far away as possible, and not to intervene in whatever was going to happen - to just stay safe). I stood up and moved to the aisle, and looked the suspect right into his eyes to let him know I was strong and serious. He then said to me, "nice going, you stupid b*tch - now I'm gonna cut you too".

He advanced toward me with his knife extended in front of him, and I pepper-sprayed him in his face, and then kicked him hard in the stomach to knock him backwards. This was met with a barrage of vulgarities, and now he was furious... He moved toward me again, and I kicked him in the crotch. He then slashed at me and I put my arm up to protect my face/neck - he cut through my heavy wool coat down to my arm, which was cut as well. I then sprayed him in his eyes (he was wearing sunglasses, but now they had slipped down enough for me to get a good shot).

This fight went on all while the train was moving along, with the suspect landing a few knife cuts on me, and me continuing to pepper spray him - in his mouth, in his ears, even up his nose when I could. As we're pulling into the next station I could see 3 police officers (with a police dog) who caught a glimpse of us fighting, and out of the corner of my eye (I was still fighting the suspect) I could see them running along the platform toward my car.

As the train slowed, I again sprayed the suspect, and now the canister was completely empty. So, I kicked him once again in the stomach area, knocking him backwards and causing him to fall on his behind with his back up against the wall in a nook that has no seat and is used for those with a wheelchair. Just then the train stopped and as soon as the doors opened the police rushed in, and I quickly told them what had happened, and that the suspect still had the knife on him.

They drew their guns on the suspect, but he refused to give up his knife. They then said, "the knife, or we're going to release the dog". The suspect still refused, and the let the dog loose - which of course resulted in him being severely bitten (there was a lot of blood as he was being torn to pieces by the dog) until at one point I see the knife go flying in front of him and hit the floor with a loud 'clank'. They then pulled the dog off of him, and too him into custody (and got him an ambulance).

Once out of the car and on the platform the 2 girls ran over to me and were hugging/clinging on to me so hard - they had obviously been terrified. A female police officer was sent over to take our statements, and she got an ambulance for the girls as well as they were just an emotional mess. Even though I was pretty bloody, my wounds had stopped leaking so I refused medical attention (I went to my own doctor later that day).

The girls and police were so thankful, and the girl's mothers were on the way to pick them up (the police had contacted them ASAP).

So, the suspect had a prior criminal record, and had been drinking and using drugs before the incident. That's one of the reasons the pepper spray wasn't as effective as it could have been - the other was that the canister was over a year old. So, replace your pepper spray yearly, never ever 'test' it, and keep it someplace easily accessible - in a pocket or in your hand when you walk; ideally not on your keychain (as your keys will interfere with its use should you need to spray it). Don't be afraid to use it if you need to; when someone attacks you (or you're protecting someone else) you cannot hesitate even for a brief second - an experienced offender will take advantage of that 'opening' to gain control of the situation. If you use it hold on to the canister tightly so the suspect cannot take it from you, and aim for the mouth, eyes, up the nose, and in their ears. Lastly, pepper spray should be used to disable the attacker which will give you time to get away - and getting away should always be your objective (unless like my situation you just cannot retreat).

Always take your pepper spray with you - it won't be of any use if you leave it at home or in your car.
 
I agree with Georgia8: Jennifer does not seem like the type of person who would forget anything; I suspect she didn't take it because she didn't feel she'd need it- as she was with someone she inherently trusted and whom she believed would protect her. Again, this leads me to believe she knew her attacker, and I think she went willingly at first, and then fought back -probably hard- when she realized what was happening to her. We need to keep in mind that Jennifer was quite the 'catch' - being so responsible and successful at such a young age, incredibly fit, gorgeous, squeaky clean (i.e., no arrests, no signs of drug or alcohol abuse), highly intelligent and mentally stable; not to disparage Florida women, but she was certainly 'a diamond in a sea of glass' (my relatives live in the Sanford area, so I've spent a lot of time there) whom many men -and many women too- would have wanted to date. She would have had her choice of many people - and I still get the feeling she was casually dating several guys...

BBM...It was reported in one of the threads that she didn't take the pepper spray with her on her trip because it wouldn't be permitted by security and when she returned the evening from work, she simply failed to put it back on her key ring. But, I guess we will probably never know for sure.
 
I agree with Georgia8: Jennifer does not seem like the type of person who would forget anything; I suspect she didn't take it because she didn't feel she'd need it- as she was with someone she inherently trusted and whom she believed would protect her. Again, this leads me to believe she knew her attacker, and I think she went willingly at first, and then fought back -probably hard- when she realized what was happening to her. We need to keep in mind that Jennifer was quite the 'catch' - being so responsible and successful at such a young age, incredibly fit, gorgeous, squeaky clean (i.e., no arrests, no signs of drug or alcohol abuse), highly intelligent and mentally stable; not to disparage Florida women, but she was certainly 'a diamond in a sea of glass' (my relatives live in the Sanford area, so I've spent a lot of time there) whom many men -and many women too- would have wanted to date. She would have had her choice of many people - and I still get the feeling she was casually dating several guys...
BBM...It was reported in one of the threads that she didn't take the pepper spray with her on her trip because it wouldn't be permitted by security and when she returned the evening from work, she simply failed to put it back on her key ring. But, I guess we will probably never know for sure.
I had to take mine off (and ultimately forgot & lost) when I had to enter a military government building so yea definitely not permitted on a plane.
 
The following incident occurred before call phones were in common use: I used to be in law enforcement in Florida (in a very small town), but never had to use my pepper spray. I moved back to Chicago (where I'm from) to go to college (as an older, returning student). Well, I still had my old can of pepper spray, so I used to carry it with me just in case.

One day riding the 'El' a 40-something year-old male started threatening to rape and murder these two attractive 14 year-old girls as soon as they got into the train car. At one point everyone in that car (all elderly women) moved to the opposite end of the car from where the suspect and potential victims were. Then, the girls got up to move seats - one sat next to me, and the other behind me (at this point I knew something was going to happen, so I reached into my pocket and armed my pepper spray).

The suspect stood up and pulled out a large pocket knife, which he then opened and said to the girls, "I'm going to rape you both, kill you, cut you into pieces and send your heads to your mothers in a box". I told the girls to run to the end of the car (as far away as possible, and not to intervene in whatever was going to happen - to just stay safe). I stood up and moved to the aisle, and looked the suspect right into his eyes to let him know I was strong and serious. He then said to me, "nice going, you stupid b*tch - now I'm gonna cut you too".

He advanced toward me with his knife extended in front of him, and I pepper-sprayed him in his face, and then kicked him hard in the stomach to knock him backwards. This was met with a barrage of vulgarities, and now he was furious... He moved toward me again, and I kicked him in the crotch. He then slashed at me and I put my arm up to protect my face/neck - he cut through my heavy wool coat down to my arm, which was cut as well. I then sprayed him in his eyes (he was wearing sunglasses, but now they had slipped down enough for me to get a good shot).

This fight went on all while the train was moving along, with the suspect landing a few knife cuts on me, and me continuing to pepper spray him - in his mouth, in his ears, even up his nose when I could. As we're pulling into the next station I could see 3 police officers (with a police dog) who caught a glimpse of us fighting, and out of the corner of my eye (I was still fighting the suspect) I could see them running along the platform toward my car.

As the train slowed, I again sprayed the suspect, and now the canister was completely empty. So, I kicked him once again in the stomach area, knocking him backwards and causing him to fall on his behind with his back up against the wall in a nook that has no seat and is used for those with a wheelchair. Just then the train stopped and as soon as the doors opened the police rushed in, and I quickly told them what had happened, and that the suspect still had the knife on him.

They drew their guns on the suspect, but he refused to give up his knife. They then said, "the knife, or we're going to release the dog". The suspect still refused, and the let the dog loose - which of course resulted in him being severely bitten (there was a lot of blood as he was being torn to pieces by the dog) until at one point I see the knife go flying in front of him and hit the floor with a loud 'clank'. They then pulled the dog off of him, and too him into custody (and got him an ambulance).

Once out of the car and on the platform the 2 girls ran over to me and were hugging/clinging on to me so hard - they had obviously been terrified. A female police officer was sent over to take our statements, and she got an ambulance for the girls as well as they were just an emotional mess. Even though I was pretty bloody, my wounds had stopped leaking so I refused medical attention (I went to my own doctor later that day).

The girls and police were so thankful, and the girl's mothers were on the way to pick them up (the police had contacted them ASAP).

So, the suspect had a prior criminal record, and had been drinking and using drugs before the incident. That's one of the reasons the pepper spray wasn't as effective as it could have been - the other was that the canister was over a year old. So, replace your pepper spray yearly, never ever 'test' it, and keep it someplace easily accessible - in a pocket or in your hand when you walk; ideally not on your keychain (as your keys will interfere with its use should you need to spray it). Don't be afraid to use it if you need to; when someone attacks you (or you're protecting someone else) you cannot hesitate even for a brief second - an experienced offender will take advantage of that 'opening' to gain control of the situation. If you use it hold on to the canister tightly so the suspect cannot take it from you, and aim for the mouth, eyes, up the nose, and in their ears. Lastly, pepper spray should be used to disable the attacker which will give you time to get away - and getting away should always be your objective (unless like my situation you just cannot retreat).

Always take your pepper spray with you - it won't be of any use if you leave it at home or in your car.
Yikes I’ll definitely be getting another & a taser I was considering as well. Any opinions?
 
If anyone is familiar with the Brian Schafer disappearance, on the Wiki page and elsewhere there is still an outlier theory apparently held also by some police that he is alive and left voluntarily. I realize that this is not even discussed here as far as I know and the family adamantly rejects the idea but is there any reasons (if you know that other case) that is less likely here (however unlikely?).

I am still bothered by the account of the woman who claimed that Jennifer had tried to rent an apartment AFTER her purchase of the condo and that she looked distracted and worried about something outside. Is that bogus? If so I wish people would not do that cause in that case they would have to be flat out lying since they said they checked the name again after she was announced missing.

Schizophrenia can descend suddenly. In a city near me a mother recently sent her daughter off to university soon after the daughter called her Mom and said men had been chasing her through the woods all night. Now she is missing. The police say they are not looking for any men so read between the lines. Head injuries can occur causing amnesia. People have secrets. Where on the spectrum of caution to paranoia did J's anxieties run?

I am just wondering what people think. Some of the material facts fit this idea fairly well other than the POI but there are ways to deal with that in a Jennifer runs away scenario.

One great thing about the Greta show is there are so many good visuals and I finally saw many of J. NOT smiling. Could she be depressed at times? I am not trying to pick on Jennifer over a few photos, just wondering.

P.S. I am increasingly certain the POI is a black guy, even a Caribbean guy at least UNTIL someone who understands how colour is represented in that black and white POI video tells me it is impossible. In the second blow up recently linked to it seems like the POI is wearing a diamond stud but I do think it is just a reflection of some kind yes?
 
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Where on the spectrum of caution to paranoia did J's anxieties run?

She had pepper spray at home and now it appears she has been abducted and murdered. So I would say her anxieties must've been genuinely heading towards paranoia. For a reason. And sadly, her fears were confirmed.

Although if she was more paranoid and acted on it, she should have moved out of that apartment block and bought one that has a doorman, or a 24hr building superintendent or better security.

Better still, she shouldn't have moved in there. The apartments were half-finished with itinerent workmen hanging about all day.
There were no neighbours, no community, and no-one to talk to. There was also no security apart from the odd camera in the parking lot.
It must've been lonely living there and I would've been scared and paranoid too.
 
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