FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #13

[Georgia8]

It is possible to build a counter narrative admittedly on VERY slender evidence of 1. Jennifer having some type of contact an African American guy or guys. 2. Of the Huntington being a bit closer to something in Jennifer's life than we have thought. 3. Of Jennifer being worried about something or someone she has gotten involved with. 4. Of her going out willingly the night she went missing. 5. Please don't hate me for this of Jennifer possibly having tried and now seeking some type of drug. 6. Of her possibly being set up and trafficked and possibly the St. Croix trip being relevant. 7. Of her not sharing this with her friends or family maybe just yet not because they are all raving racists but just because it would be changing the narrative and what people are used to about her and she was just trying something out.

As J's dad bravely pointed out there are ruthless people out there just to add apart from sex criminals there are criminals who will sell you crack but NEVER use preferring high end alcohol and have partners, are not sexually deviant per se but will a woman for cash in a flash.

What would any of us go out on a work night . Love sex or drugs. Thanks F. for mentioning that her girlfriend thought she was a bit agitated and sort of weirded out that is VERY important it fits with the searching for a second apartment story.

J. I don't understand about the purse flip flops etc. what are you saying thanks.

 

[Georgia8]

It is possible to build a counter narrative admittedly on VERY slender evidence of 1. Jennifer having some type of contact an African American guy or guys. 2. Of the Huntington being a bit closer to something in Jennifer's life than we have thought. 3. Of Jennifer being worried about something or someone she has gotten involved with. 4. Of her going out willingly the night she went missing. 5. Please don't hate me for this of Jennifer possibly having tried and now seeking some type of drug. 6. Of her possibly being set up and trafficked and possibly the St. Croix trip being relevant. 7. Of her not sharing this with her friends or family maybe just yet not because they are all raving racists but just because it would be changing the narrative and what people are used to about her and she was just trying something out.

As J's dad bravely pointed out there are ruthless people out there just to add apart from sex criminals there are criminals who will sell you crack but NEVER use preferring high end alcohol and have partners, are not sexually deviant per se but will a woman for cash in a flash.

What would any of us go out on a work night . Love sex or drugs. Thanks F. for mentioning that her girlfriend thought she was a bit agitated and sort of weirded out that is VERY important it fits with the searching for a second apartment story.

J. I don't understand about the purse flip flops etc. what are you saying thanks. My interest in the case as always mostly been towards building a possible narrative

 

[rd_jfc]

"Earlier RD explained why the person cannot be 'black' but I didn't really understand it. We don't as far as I know know the colour of anything recently it was discussed if it is even day or night.

RD can you explain that again for me, for us."

I wrote:
"Concerning your earlier question on why black skin couldn't look white as the clothes are, I posted (and linked here in years past) side by side images of normal and light with night vision images which show the lightness impact of the IR on clothes. It's a material thing. For example the black fence and black shoes are not lightened. It's not an inverse black and white and thing."

I did a search just now and was able to find a washed out face as well. All features were obliterated, but this example is a stronger IR washout rather than just passively picking up IR as the older cheaper security camera did. So skin is not exempt from the effect as the shoes and fence were.

https://www.getscw.com/images/features/smart-ir.png

 

[Georgia8]

Thanks and sorry I think you were clear enough the first time! I was not clear I guess I am using 'black' in a more cultural way and bodily way/body type not primarily or at least just skin colour. Though a non hispanic white person would just be a different poi. I don't think anyone has thought it could not possibly be Chino for example so why not a light skinned black person?

I listened to the Unconcluded updates and I got the impression 1. the Kesses doubt the Erica story 2. they are adamant the ping evidence is useless 3. Mr. Kesse actually is still persuaded by the trafficking theory. 4. they have found nothing unusual on her computer and phone leading up to the abduction they are still looking. That doesn't fit well with my theory of J. possibly using a recreational drug or having additional love/sex contacts there should be something.

The power of R's theory apart from her work on the images is that it would explain how Jennifer might stop for the person especially if she recognized them from work even vaguely.

Can anyone who knows Orlando tell us Jen's probable exact route to work? So we can use Google street view and get an idea of how she could possibly be abducted a.m.

 

[rd_jfc]

I recall once a map was posted. If you do a search on the toll road that Jennifer was confirmed using, that road is a pretty straight NW shot to work IIRC.

 

[flgrl017]

What would any of us go out on a work night . Love sex or drugs. Thanks F. for mentioning that her girlfriend thought she was a bit agitated and sort of weirded out that is VERY important it fits with the searching for a second apartment story.

J. I don't understand about the purse flip flops etc. what are you saying thanks.

I’ve personally never thought her possibly going out on a work night was alarming. Jennifer and I would have been the same age, we had the same major in college, and both sorority girls. She reminds me a lot of me and my friends. Able to take care of responsibilities at a very high level while still maintaining a social life. 10 pm at 24 years old wasn’t really that late. I will admit that it sounds late to me now since I’m 40. She could have went out for many reasons, and I wish I knew the reason because I think that answer leads to the perp. Was she meeting a friend, checking on some timeshare, getting food, etc? One of her sorority sisters actually leaves open the idea of her going out on one of the unconcluded episodes. That says a lot of me. I feel like her being in a weird mood would have been more personal than something that was going on across the hall. I feel like if that were the cause she would have told her friend and her friend would have told us. If the friend does know the reason for the mood, she’s never told the public. That leads me to believe it was something more personal going on with her that night.

There were two pairs of flops flops in her car when they found it at hog. There are pics of the floating around the internet. One of the pairs look like the ones she was pictured wearing in st croix. I would like to know if one of those pairs was the ones she was wearing Monday when she left work. I think it’s a high probability she made it back to her car safely sometime after she left work Monday if one of those pairs were the ones she was wearing when she left work Monday.

As far as the purse goes, there is a lot of discussion on rd’s site. When a woman moves from one purse to another it’s going to be obvious. Did she move purses or just grab her keys, id, and maybe some cash? Was the purse empty, or just put inside the luggage bag so she could carry her stuff inside?

 

[flgrl017]

I listened to the Unconcluded updates and I got the impression 1. the Kesses doubt the Erica story 2. they are adamant the ping evidence is useless 3. Mr. Kesse actually is still persuaded by the trafficking theory. 4. they have found nothing unusual on her computer and phone leading up to the abduction they are still looking. That doesn't fit well with my theory of J. possibly using a recreational drug or having additional love/sex contacts there should be something.

Can anyone who knows Orlando tell us Jen's probable exact route to work? So we can use Google street view and get an idea of how she could possibly be abducted a.m.

I feel like that is why the answer to my question about when the phones stopped pinging is so important. I’ve been reading the early threads. The cops wanted to leave open the door that she went out Monday, and I think the pings are the reason why. I think the pings are why they told the Kesse’s they didn’t know Jennifer as well as they thought. There shouldn’t be any confusion when those phones sent their last signal. I think that if the phones weren’t pinging after 10:40 pm on Monday, then she was in danger then. She was 24 years old, and they said she always had the phone on. She used the cell as her alarm. We can debate the location and if they were moving til kingdom come, but whether or not those phones were sending signals to the towers isn’t debatable. I personally think the phones were moving and I think the cops believe that too, but that’s my opinion based off of the opd’s statements.

The last time that car passed a toll both was when she came home Monday night. That was in the police report. If she was car jacked Tuesday morning, it happened before she got on the toll road (I’m assuming there is a plaza when you get on the road).

 

[Georgia8]

Thanks and yes if we normalize J. going out then it can be anything like food not just my love sex drugs idea. Of course food you could get delivery. I was accepting what her parent's think so was thinking it had to be something really pushing her. I have never put much credence in the swerving car story at the Mosaic but I guess, if what R. is telling us here about the route to work there is isn't much likelihood of an abduction en route to work surely then that is the only way, though at the condo in the morning which doesn't seem likely to me either. Drew says J. was not recently in touch with her ex as far as then can tell I had though she had been. There should be evidence of that. And thanks R. that is an important remind about the told road evidence.

 

[Georgia8]

rd have your thoughts about the poi changed or expanded since you did that great work on the images? Thanks.

 

[rd_jfc]

Thanks and yes if we normalize J. going out then it can be anything like food not just my love sex drugs idea. Of course food you could get delivery. I was accepting what her parent's think so was thinking it had to be something really pushing her. I have never put much credence in the swerving car story at the Mosaic but I guess, if what R. is telling us here about the route to work there is isn't much likelihood of an abduction en route to work surely then that is the only way, though at the condo in the morning which doesn't seem likely to me either. Drew says J. was not recently in touch with her ex as far as then can tell I had though she had been. There should be evidence of that. And thanks R. that is an important remind about the told road evidence.

I don't think delivery other than say pizza delivery was used as an option much at that time. In addition gates closed at night made it a more difficult option. I don't think considering driving out somewhere rather than attempting to get a delivery is a stretch at all.

However, 10 at night narrows down quite a bit where she might drive to pick up food. I'm just more inclined to think she would more likely go to that bar over at mall and particularly to talk to someone she knew there. I still think she'd be inclined to get rid of dealing with the friend's phone by giving it to the ex to deal with for her. Or just an excuse to talk to him if she was irritated with how things were going with current bf.

Of course she never made it there.

 

[rd_jfc]

rd have your thoughts about the poi changed or expanded since you did that great work on the images? Thanks.

Georgia, my biggest disappointment was not finding anything that looks like the straps and object on hip / upper thigh. It's a very distinctive webbing pattern, but no one has recognized it. So it's made what I thought was a holster much less likely. And therefor LE or security guard less likely. But until recognized that's my best guess.

I was going to spend more time looking into this when I retired but I have put off retirement indefinitely. Thanks for your kind words, Georgia.

 

[flgrl017]

Thanks and yes if we normalize J. going out then it can be anything like food not just my love sex drugs idea. Of course food you could get delivery. I was accepting what her parent's think so was thinking it had to be something really pushing her. I have never put much credence in the swerving car story at the Mosaic but I guess, if what R. is telling us here about the route to work there is isn't much likelihood of an abduction en route to work surely then that is the only way, though at the condo in the morning which doesn't seem likely to me either. Drew says J. was not recently in touch with her ex as far as then can tell I had though she had been. There should be evidence of that. And thanks R. that is an important remind about the told road evidence.

I’ve never put much credence into the car sighting either. This wasn’t some rural area. This was a big city, in a busy area, during morning rush. If Jennifer would have been able to fight for control of her car that morning, I 100% believe more than 1 person would have noticed. Her windows were not heavily tinted. Her car was low to the ground. I also believe the area between the front 2 seats proves there wasn’t a struggle in the vehicle. Look at the pills, key, sunglasses, and piece of paper. Would they be sitting like that if there was a struggle? Does anyone know what that paper is? Is it a business card? I personally don’t think Jennifer was inside the car after she was abducted. My theory is she drove somewhere and got out the car and then something happened. I think the car was moved because wherever it was parked pointed to the perp.

 

[flgrl017]

Georgia, my biggest disappointment was not finding anything that looks like the straps and object on hip / upper thigh. It's a very distinctive webbing pattern, but no one has recognized it. So it's made what I thought was a holster much less likely. And therefor LE or security guard less likely. But until recognized that's my best guess.

I was going to spend more time looking into this when I retired but I have put off retirement indefinitely. Thanks for your kind words, Georgia.

Where do you think he went?

 

[SimplyCass]

I’ve never put much credence into the car sighting either. This wasn’t some rural area. This was a big city, in a busy area, during morning rush. If Jennifer would have been able to fight for control of her car that morning, I 100% believe more than 1 person would have noticed. Her windows were not heavily tinted. Her car was low to the ground. I also believe the area between the front 2 seats proves there wasn’t a struggle in the vehicle. Look at the pills, key, sunglasses, and piece of paper. Would they be sitting like that if there was a struggle? Does anyone know what that paper is? Is it a business card? I personally don’t think Jennifer was inside the car after she was abducted. My theory is she drove somewhere and got out the car and then something happened. I think the car was moved because wherever it was parked pointed to the perp.

Looks like a business card to me. is that a screengrab of a still photo or is that video footage of someone looking around the car? If the latter, and there's movement, we might be able to tell by how it moves (if it's stiff or doesn't move much, likely a business card; if it moves too much, probably a receipt).

Actually, if that's a lid for that cup holder, and the card is propping it open, definitely not a receipt.

I know it's been debated if the abduction happened in the morning or the night before. The towel being wet is indecisive, but what about her work outfit being laid out as if she was preparing for work? can that be explained for a "night before" theory?

 

[Georgia8]

It does not look like a business card or receipt to me too large in the first case too firm for the second. It looks to me like a door security swipe card. They are often plain white. I have had them for storage spaces. Did Jennifer need one at work or her condo I am guessing not.

 

[rd_jfc]

Looks like a business card to me. is that a screengrab of a still photo or is that video footage of someone looking around the car? If the latter, and there's movement, we might be able to tell by how it moves (if it's stiff or doesn't move much, likely a business card; if it moves too much, probably a receipt).

Actually, if that's a lid for that cup holder, and the card is propping it open, definitely not a receipt.

I know it's been debated if the abduction happened in the morning or the night before. The towel being wet is indecisive, but what about her work outfit being laid out as if she was preparing for work? can that be explained for a "night before" theory?

In my personal but lack of any experience in this area opinion, that is more indicative of came back from a several day trip and planning my business clothing for the rest of the week. She had already been to work Monday wearing something she brought with her on trip to be able to go straight to work Monday. It just strikes me as an evening planning thing rather than a morning indecisive thing.

However, any concept that she got up Tuesday morning and did anything ignores what didn't happen. There was no indication her phone was working, therefore no alarm clock she used her phone for. There was not even a text to her bf good morning or anything else. The trash can had next to nothing in it as I understand it. Try going all evening, night, and morning going to work and not throwing anything away in the trash.

None of this is even remotely reasonable, not even taking into consideration the ignored ping movement after 10 pm, and all because the family doesn't want to consider that Jennifer got into her car and drove somewhere at 10 pm at night, despite all indications she did so.

 

[rd_jfc]

Where do you think he went?

flgrl, the parking of Jennifer's car at noon in HOTG was very deliberate. In my opinion parking there had two goals; 1) divert attention to what Jennifer was doing at HOTG and who there knew about it, and 2) it is a very convenient crossroads of bus lines running east and west on Americana and north and south on Texas. I have no doubt he caught a bus from there, and he was headed to the intersection and bus stops.

It was deliberate and he was careful. We have him peering back from behind the palm tree back at Jennifer's car to see if he had been noticed by anyone, if any activity around Jennifer's car. It was brief, but he cared enough to check. (Notice this is the opposite of walked away and never looked back which is cited often, even in Jennifer's Wikipedia article.)

There was some discussion recently about night or day. From the video covering the entrance and Jeniifer's car driving in, parking, and POI walking around pool, there is no indication to me that it isn't night. It is very dark and all you can see of POI is a white IR reflection. So if that's all we had I'd be hard pressed to say it wasn't night.

However, we have the camera covering the pool gate, and there we have all the details of light of day. The clothes are lightened by IR with light but it is clearly daylight.

In addition, the OPD looked at this. They determined it was an hour off (I assume was set during Daylight Savings Time), they performed tests with it, they saw their own uniforms showed up light, they confirmed the time of the photos.

I will say there's a lot I don't understand about the video of POI entering, and maybe nothing that I do understand about it. In addition to everything else I mentioned, I don't understand how the video focuses on POI walking around the pool. I've asked before, along with numerous questions about the cameras and settings, and there has been absolutely zero information of any kind from anyone about it, even people in the industry who know something about how this works. If there has been I haven't seen it.

But the stills from the gate camera, that I understand, although I would dearly love to get same camera and recorder and know the settings and analyze reenactments. Could never get any info on it. Same with the security footage these stills were selected from. They had (have?) hours of footage they selected these stills from where one would be able to see other people walk by and compare attributes of distortion and coloring in other people. I can't imagine this not being part of the investigation. And yet there was no mention of it whatsoever of it being done.

So where did the POI go on a bus? Probably to where their vehicle was parked from where they drove off with Jennifer's car. My best guess is abducted Jennifer into his vehicle, returned next day to her car, drove it to HOTG, then took bus back to his vehicle there. That would require a large parking lot like Millenium Mall. I don't know if security footage and checking of vehicles left overnight would preclude that scenario.

 

[AC's Grandma]

Jennifer Kesse disappearance: Family says it's 'close' to answers in 15-year-old cold case

This is from 2021.

 

[flgrl017]

Looks like a business card to me. is that a screengrab of a still photo or is that video footage of someone looking around the car? If the latter, and there's movement, we might be able to tell by how it moves (if it's stiff or doesn't move much, likely a business card; if it moves too much, probably a receipt).

Actually, if that's a lid for that cup holder, and the card is propping it open, definitely not a receipt.

I know it's been debated if the abduction happened in the morning or the night before. The towel being wet is indecisive, but what about her work outfit being laid out as if she was preparing for work? can that be explained for a "night before" theory?

As far as the clothing being laid out, it just tells me at some point she tried on some clothes. Could have been night or could have been morning. If I have to be somewhere early, then I try on clothes and select my outfit the night before. I make sure it doesn’t need ironing and is ready to put on so I don’t have to worry about it in the morning. If she went out Monday, she could have tried on clothes and left them on her bed. Those clothes could have been clothes she was considering wearing out Monday. Maybe it shows she never returned home to sleep in the bed. I know they say the covers were messed up, but maybe she just sat or laid on the bed while on the phone. I’ve saw people do that before. My teenage son does it all the time. I guess what I’m getting at is the clothing on the bed and the beds condition really don’t tell me anything. I can think of scenarios for both morning or evening.

The wet towel doesn’t really tell me anything. We don’t know how thick the towel was. We don’t know how wet it was originally when it was draped on the dryer. Maybe she got water on the floor and wiped that up. Sometimes that happens with me, and I wipe up the water with the towel I just used. If that happens the towel is really wet. I would like to know if she had her ac unit on that day and what it was set to. The air circulation affects dry time. It would have been about 74 degrees when she got home Monday evening. It dropped to 64 overnight and was 76 at 3 pm when Drew and Joyce entered the condo. Her ac unit may not have even kicked on. I leave mine on 78.

I don’t recall seeing a video of inside the car. There is a photo of the passenger side floor with 2 pairs of flip flops. The back seat has a workout ball and the DVD player buckled down. The trunk had a hoola hoop. I wonder where she was working out.

 

[flgrl017]

In my personal but lack of any experience in this area opinion, that is more indicative of came back from a several day trip and planning my business clothing for the rest of the week. She had already been to work Monday wearing something she brought with her on trip to be able to go straight to work Monday. It just strikes me as an evening planning thing rather than a morning indecisive thing.

However, any concept that she got up Tuesday morning and did anything ignores what didn't happen. There was no indication her phone was working, therefore no alarm clock she used her phone for. There was not even a text to her bf good morning or anything else. The trash can had next to nothing in it as I understand it. Try going all evening, night, and morning going to work and not throwing anything away in the trash.

None of this is even remotely reasonable, not even taking into consideration the ignored ping movement after 10 pm, and all because the family doesn't want to consider that Jennifer got into her car and drove somewhere at 10 pm at night, despite all indications she did so.

Agreed.
Do you know what time Rob started calling her Tuesday? He’s said before he left for work and while on his way to work. Then again before and after the 9 am meeting. I’d love to pinpoint exactly when he became alarmed she hadn’t communicated with him.