FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #13

[flgrl017]

flgrl, the parking of Jennifer's car at noon in HOTG was very deliberate. In my opinion parking there had two goals; 1) divert attention to what Jennifer was doing at HOTG and who there knew about it, and 2) it is a very convenient crossroads of bus lines running east and west on Americana and north and south on Texas. I have no doubt he caught a bus from there, and he was headed to the intersection and bus stops.

It was deliberate and he was careful. We have him peering back from behind the palm tree back at Jennifer's car to see if he had been noticed by anyone, if any activity around Jennifer's car. It was brief, but he cared enough to check. (Notice this is the opposite of walked away and never looked back which is cited often, even in Jennifer's Wikipedia article.)

There was some discussion recently about night or day. From the video covering the entrance and Jeniifer's car driving in, parking, and POI walking around pool, there is no indication to me that it isn't night. It is very dark and all you can see of POI is a white IR reflection. So if that's all we had I'd be hard pressed to say it wasn't night.

However, we have the camera covering the pool gate, and there we have all the details of light of day. The clothes are lightened by IR with light but it is clearly daylight.

In addition, the OPD looked at this. They determined it was an hour off (I assume was set during Daylight Savings Time), they performed tests with it, they saw their own uniforms showed up light, they confirmed the time of the photos.

I will say there's a lot I don't understand about the video of POI entering, and maybe nothing that I do understand about it. In addition to everything else I mentioned, I don't understand how the video focuses on POI walking around the pool. I've asked before, along with numerous questions about the cameras and settings, and there has been absolutely zero information of any kind from anyone about it, even people in the industry who know something about how this works. If there has been I haven't seen it.

But the stills from the gate camera, that I understand, although I would dearly love to get same camera and recorder and know the settings and analyze reenactments. Could never get any info on it. Same with the security footage these stills were selected from. They had (have?) hours of footage they selected these stills from where one would be able to see other people walk by and compare attributes of distortion and coloring in other people. I can't imagine this not being part of the investigation. And yet there was no mention of it whatsoever of it being done.

So where did the POI go on a bus? Probably to where their vehicle was parked from where they drove off with Jennifer's car. My best guess is abducted Jennifer into his vehicle, returned next day to her car, drove it to HOTG, then took bus back to his vehicle there. That would require a large parking lot like Millenium Mall. I don't know if security footage and checking of vehicles left overnight would preclude that scenario.

He definitely is looking back when he’s by the palm tree. I’ve always wondered why he would park where he did and walk around the pool like that in front of the cameras instead of taking a left when he entered the lot and parking somewhere over there.
Do you know how one pays for a bus like that? I’ve never ridden one. Can you pay cash and do they have cameras? The police may not have even checked them out. I know there was mention of the 7-11 film early on. It would interesting to know what was or even was not picked up on it, and if they had a camera aimed at the road. I’ve never heard mention of any footage from the mall, but you would think they would have got that. There is over 67 hours worth of video that was turned over to the Kesse’s according to this transcript.
Parents of Jennifer Kesse take over investigation in hopes of solving missing daughter's case

 

[rd_jfc]

Agreed.
Do you know what time Rob started calling her Tuesday? He’s said before he left for work and while on his way to work. Then again before and after the 9 am meeting. I’d love to pinpoint exactly when he became alarmed she hadn’t communicated with him.

From Drew:
"Her boyfriend called Jennifer at work and was told she had not arrived yet."

From Rob, via CNN Nancy Grace:
"I`ve known Jennifer for about the last 12 months, and we talked periodically throughout the day every day, every night before she goes to bed, every morning before, when she wakes up."

and

"Jennifer always woke up before me. She had to go to work before I did. So she every day would either call me just to say, Good morning, Have a great day, or just text me to wish me to, you know, have a great day, Love you, that type of thing. And when I didn`t receive it Tuesday morning, I thought it was odd, but I was running a little late for work, so I called her on the way into work..."

Note that in this initial interview Rob indicates that Jennifer left a message when she woke up, which is what I would expect, something in the morning while getting up. This later was morphed into Jennifer never attempting to contact Rob until she was in her car and driving to work, because the initial statement would prove she wasn't home Tuesday morning to wake up and send a message. And that can't be allowed. So nothing like this was ever said again.

 

[rd_jfc]

He definitely is looking back when he’s by the palm tree. I’ve always wondered why he would park where he did and walk around the pool like that in front of the cameras instead of taking a left when he entered the lot and parking somewhere over there.
Do you know how one pays for a bus like that? I’ve never ridden one. Can you pay cash and do they have cameras? The police may not have even checked them out. I know there was mention of the 7-11 film early on. It would interesting to know what was or even was not picked up on it, and if they had a camera aimed at the road. I’ve never heard mention of any footage from the mall, but you would think they would have got that. There is over 67 hours worth of video that was turned over to the Kesse’s according to this transcript.
Parents of Jennifer Kesse take over investigation in hopes of solving missing daughter's case

I've written a lot of thoughts on why POI parked where he did. Why expose himself closer to center of activity at HOTG just to dump a car? Why walk farther than necessary if parking near a bus stop? etc.

He parked Jennifer's car directly in front of main walkway office is on, IIRC. In any event, the most prominent spot in the complex. But it is also the first spot to park directly on extrance lane, just past the pool. But he could have turned left or right after entering and parked far away from anything.

But what does that do? It indicates someone dumping a car. It's not something Jennifer would have done visiting. So he indicates Jennifer drove here and parked to visit someone and never came back out. Imagine if there was no POI video the police activity at HOTG trying to find out where she was and who at HOTG knew about it. That's why someone would park her car where they did.

As far as the bus, I've commuted different times and places by bus. I've always paid cash. I expect he would not do anything to draw attention and just deposit a cash fare and go sit down. There is a box sitting next to driver and you drop money in. I don't know how things might have changed since 2005 with all the electronics but that was way it was back then unless you bought a monthly pass or something.

 

[SimplyCass]

He definitely is looking back when he’s by the palm tree. I’ve always wondered why he would park where he did and walk around the pool like that in front of the cameras instead of taking a left when he entered the lot and parking somewhere over there.
Do you know how one pays for a bus like that? I’ve never ridden one. Can you pay cash and do they have cameras? The police may not have even checked them out. I know there was mention of the 7-11 film early on. It would interesting to know what was or even was not picked up on it, and if they had a camera aimed at the road. I’ve never heard mention of any footage from the mall, but you would think they would have got that. There is over 67 hours worth of video that was turned over to the Kesse’s according to this transcript.
Parents of Jennifer Kesse take over investigation in hopes of solving missing daughter's case

"TAKE THE KEYS" - Orlando Weekly

Fares & Passes | Public Transportation in Orange, Seminole & Osceol

The mass transit in the area is called the Lynx and has served Orlando since 1992. Fares are currently $2.

I don't have firsthand knowledge of the Lynx, but it seems pretty similar to my experiences in 2006 on my local bus system - pay cash, use exact change, tell the driver if you want an all day pass instead of a one way trip.

Cameras probably weren't terribly common back then. Only in the past five years has there been options to buy passes online and use your phone.

I'd have to dig deeper to find more about Lynx schedule and routing in 2006. Currently, I see a Route 40 running along Americana Blvd., but in 2006, it could have had a different route number, different start or endpoints, different bus frequency - the stop itself may be in a different location now. Bus routes can be changed relatively quickly and easily.

 

[Georgia8]

1. If in the third image he is looking back some of his head should still be showing just ahead of the next rail I would think. I am still bothered by that third still shot it seems flawed or manipulated.

2. If I understand one of the things R is saying why does the camera follow the suspect around the pool? Is that possible well obviously it must be but how?

3, With all genuine respect for their fortitude and loyalty to Jennifer I am concerned about some of the search logic and strategy. For example standing on a busy highway holding signs - the cars seem to be driving far too quickly by to get much out of that. Now if you went to downtown Orlando (where would that be?) you would be seeing many of the same people who are driving by but could talk to them. The lake search really worries me for reasons discussed here it is just implausible on every front. Up to them but going off WS etc. bothers me. And above all it is incomprehensible why they need to stick to the idea that Jennifer would never go out at night and some of those recent thoughts of R are important not such the ping evidence i.e. needing the alarm she usually or always used on the phone, not texting Rob.

4. On the Please Find Me site Rob says their conversations were usually long up to 3 or 4 hours at night. Importantly and I am repeating myself, the account of the final conversation makes no sense - its length just does not match the description of the disagreement unless he just hung up on her when she was (by his account) trying to be assured of his commitment. And what does 'disagreement' actually mean. If my partner asked me are you sure you love me I wouldn't call that a disagreement. And surely she wasn't asking him to quit his job and move to Orlando. I do think something is being left out. He would remember every word of that conversation given what happened next. But the account remains very formulaic and abstract though I realize that may just a personality thing on his part. I know he is cleared but this remains important. Could there me anything in Rob's milieu that is important?

 

[flgrl017]

From Drew:
"Her boyfriend called Jennifer at work and was told she had not arrived yet."

From Rob, via CNN Nancy Grace:
"I`ve known Jennifer for about the last 12 months, and we talked periodically throughout the day every day, every night before she goes to bed, every morning before, when she wakes up."

and

"Jennifer always woke up before me. She had to go to work before I did. So she every day would either call me just to say, Good morning, Have a great day, or just text me to wish me to, you know, have a great day, Love you, that type of thing. And when I didn`t receive it Tuesday morning, I thought it was odd, but I was running a little late for work, so I called her on the way into work..."

Note that in this initial interview Rob indicates that Jennifer left a message when she woke up, which is what I would expect, something in the morning while getting up. This later was morphed into Jennifer never attempting to contact Rob until she was in her car and driving to work, because the initial statement would prove she wasn't home Tuesday morning to wake up and send a message. And that can't be allowed. So nothing like this was ever said again.

The initial statement was made on 2/7/2006 and did seem as if she called him before leaving her apartment. When he says “every morning before, when she wakes up” I wonder what the word before means.


There is this back and forth from the 2/22/2006 show:
GRACE: Yes, I mean, I`m just trying to figure out the time line here. And another question. In the morning -- she had a long-distance relationship with the boyfriend. Did she call the boyfriend in the morning?

DREW KESSE: No, and that was...

JOYCE KESSE: Atypical. She normally always spoke with him in the morning.

GRACE: OK, see, that`s a clue right there.

JOYCE KESSE: Right.

GRACE: So what time would they talk, before she went to work?

JOYCE KESSE: Or actually during her commute to work. And...

DREW KESSE: Right around 8:00 a.m.

JOYCE KESSE: Right around 8:00, you know, 7:30, 8:15 was normally the time she left to go to work.

 

[annpats]

On the Please Find Me site Rob says their conversations were usually long up to 3 or 4 hours at night.

Wow. That's says everything about their relationship. What is there to talk about for that long? It does sound like one of them or both if them was needy or insecure. To talk for that long you'd have to start as soon as you got home from work and finished when you went to bed. It must've been exhausting. MOO.

 

[rd_jfc]

The initial statement was made on 2/7/2006 and did seem as if she called him before leaving her apartment. When he says “every morning before, when she wakes up” I wonder what the word before means.


There is this back and forth from the 2/22/2006 show:
GRACE: Yes, I mean, I`m just trying to figure out the time line here. And another question. In the morning -- she had a long-distance relationship with the boyfriend. Did she call the boyfriend in the morning?

DREW KESSE: No, and that was...

JOYCE KESSE: Atypical. She normally always spoke with him in the morning.

GRACE: OK, see, that`s a clue right there.

JOYCE KESSE: Right.

GRACE: So what time would they talk, before she went to work?

JOYCE KESSE: Or actually during her commute to work. And...

DREW KESSE: Right around 8:00 a.m.

JOYCE KESSE: Right around 8:00, you know, 7:30, 8:15 was normally the time she left to go to work.

yes, exactly, flgrl. Rob indicated early in morning and parents changed it to while driving to work. They were already fighting OPD's initial statements that they believed Jennifer went out Monday night after that last phone call. In the end OPD acquiesced to their insistence on abducted going out to her car to go to work, but also dismissed the case and handed off to FBI, who refused to accept it. There was some PR from both agencies at times but everything stopped with accepting the narrative.

 

[rd_jfc]

Georgia wrote:
"1. If in the third image he is looking back some of his head should still be showing just ahead of the next rail I would think. I am still bothered by that third still shot it seems flawed or manipulated."

The other side of rail from his head is the palm tree he is partially behind. Even without that I don't think his head would extend beyond rail but if it did it was behind the palm tree.

Here is an excerpt of my post finding his face:
June 6, 2007
I've been working with a 19" monitor at 1024 x 768. But I started to summarize the work and post a roadmap to find features I've found, and I went over to my other new computer to look at something, and brought up the blownup photos thread to check something.

Holy cow. No wonder everyone sees something different. This was a 15" LCD monitor at 1024 x 768. Moving on down to the third still I wanted to see where the deputy sheriff logo seemed to be now. I was surprised to see that it wasn't as clear as with the 19" monitor. It was there, but mostly because I knew where to look for it.

But in trying to determine where the logo was on the suspect, I got a shock. A huge shock. Actually, a jolt.

I was staring at the suspect's face with sunglasses as he looked back at the car he had just parked. I stared again and, yes, he has stopped and turned around and his face is clearly visible, wearing sunglasses. This is in the new third still picture I just posted today to try to put the deputy sheriff patch in perspective and show it in relation to the rest of him, that little which could be seen.

But that little is his face.

Some comments. You can see his face well enough to rule many people out. You can see the ring around his neck, just as in the other two pictures. This deputy sheriff patch is on his other shoulder, where he has turned around to look back. The hat does not appear to protrude out over his forehead, and could be a beret.

I did a search on bike patrol beret just now and this suspect is wearing the same official uniform as the Air Force bike patrol; white golf-style shirt, (dark blue) cycling pants with velcro keepers, black low cut athletic shoes and white socks, and a beret when not riding. It sounds like a common bike patrol uniform, but does the Orlando Sheriff's Department have a bike patrol, and is that their uniform?

I think the face is good enough to at least try to make an artist rendition of the suspect wearing sunglasses. In particular there is a pretty good indication of the shape of his face and nose.

If not a chinstrap, he looks like he has a goatee. With goatee, sunglasses, and beret, he looks like a French beatnik.

Unbelievably, the suspect captured in the Kelsey Smith video also has exactly the same goatee look, and wearing a similar white pullover shirt. This guy in a police bike patrol uniform with a stun gun looks a little older, though.

rd

 

[AC's Grandma]

The initial statement was made on 2/7/2006 and did seem as if she called him before leaving her apartment. When he says “every morning before, when she wakes up” I wonder what the word before means.

I think his meaning is before she leaves to go to work. JMO

 

[rd_jfc]

I think his meaning is before she leaves to go to work. JMO

I definitely agree, Grandma.

 

[Georgia8]

What height is the Kelsey Smith perp I wonder. Thanks for the reminder about the palm tree. I don't see sunglasses but am getting persuaded about the face looking back - I see a white male in the third frame if it is a face and it is not unlike the Smith perp. He has a big nose though. Remarkable eyes. I imagine the Kesses have considered him?

Carrie Culberson Georgia the boyfriend who was abusive was convicted but maintained his innocence Carrie had a tattoo of a daisy on her right hip.

Does anyone know if J. had a picture of her tattoo on her myspace? Was her tattoo visible in nice weather or more hidden most often? The Kelsey Smith perp seems crazy enough to believe a woman with a shamrock tattoo on Myspace was begging to be part of his 'ritual' - I don't know for sure how ritualistic that murder really was it seems at least slightly.

We don't know enough or at least I don't but he is a very good suspect. One thing about Orlando of course if the huge number of people come come there for tourism.

 

[Georgia8]

I think his meaning is before she leaves to go to work. JMO

I took it to mean before as in until this time.

 

[marable]

What height is the Kelsey Smith perp I wonder. Thanks for the reminder about the palm tree. I don't see sunglasses but am getting persuaded about the face looking back - I see a white male in the third frame if it is a face and it is not unlike the Smith perp. He has a big nose though. Remarkable eyes. I imagine the Kesses have considered him?

Carrie Culberson Georgia the boyfriend who was abusive was convicted but maintained his innocence Carrie had a tattoo of a daisy on her right hip.

Does anyone know if J. had a picture of her tattoo on her myspace? Was her tattoo visible in nice weather or more hidden most often? The Kelsey Smith perp seems crazy enough to believe a woman with a shamrock tattoo on Myspace was begging to be part of his 'ritual' - I don't know for sure how ritualistic that murder really was it seems at least slightly.

We don't know enough or at least I don't but he is a very good suspect. One thing about Orlando of course if the huge number of people come come there for tourism.

I found on line that Edwin R. Hall who murdered Kelsey Smith is 5'9" tall ....He is a frightening looking character for sure ....

 

[rd_jfc]

What height is the Kelsey Smith perp I wonder. Thanks for the reminder about the palm tree. I don't see sunglasses but am getting persuaded about the face looking back - I see a white male in the third frame if it is a face and it is not unlike the Smith perp. He has a big nose though. Remarkable eyes. I imagine the Kesses have considered him?

Carrie Culberson Georgia the boyfriend who was abusive was convicted but maintained his innocence Carrie had a tattoo of a daisy on her right hip.

Does anyone know if J. had a picture of her tattoo on her myspace? Was her tattoo visible in nice weather or more hidden most often? The Kelsey Smith perp seems crazy enough to believe a woman with a shamrock tattoo on Myspace was begging to be part of his 'ritual' - I don't know for sure how ritualistic that murder really was it seems at least slightly.

We don't know enough or at least I don't but he is a very good suspect. One thing about Orlando of course if the huge number of people come come there for tourism.

I was more suggesting how similar the crime as I think took place and looks of the Kelsey Smith perp. Not so much the same guy (I don't recall what timing was) but just a lot of similarity to me.

 

[marable]

I was more suggesting how similar the crime as I think took place and looks of the Kelsey Smith perp. Not so much the same guy (I don't recall what timing was) but just a lot of similarity to me.

RD ,I have read that he was in FL at the time of Jennifers disappearance in 2006...I don't know if this is accurate or not ....I believe he murdered Kelsey in 2007 ....

 

[Georgia8]

It probably isn't going to fit but it is worth looking at till we know differently. 5 foot 9 is just within the margin of error some viewers/analysts (not LE) think exists for his height. Also it is not impossible that he is say 5 8. I mean if he was 6 2 that would be different. I do see large eyes in the third image in fact one of the reasons I discounted it being a face in the third image was I thought I was seeing someone with normal eyes absurdly wide eyed it just didn't fit with the resolute marching walk. But of course if those are eyes that is different it hadn't occured to me. R. could you misconstruing eyes like this as sunglasses?

 

[rd_jfc]

It probably isn't going to fit but it is worth looking at till we know differently. 5 foot 9 is just within the margin of error some viewers/analysts (not LE) think exists for his height. Also it is not impossible that he is say 5 8. I mean if he was 6 2 that would be different. I do see large eyes in the third image in fact one of the reasons I discounted it being a face in the third image was I thought I was seeing someone with normal eyes absurdly wide eyed it just didn't fit with the resolute marching walk. But of course if those are eyes that is different it hadn't occured to me. R. could you misconstruing eyes like this as sunglasses?

This goes way back but here on WS there was in my opinion nearly universal agreement the POI was closer to 5'9. That was my estimate as well in visiting the site and looking at the gate and palm tree. I won't go into another rant about how OPD took a police spokeswoman, contorted her into something that looked like the Hunchback of Notre Dame meets Bigfoot, and then concluded the POI was my guess same height as the police spokeswoman. They were so incompetent it would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

Regarding the POI face in third still, my main goal is to get crowdsourcing identification of what's seen in the images, so other opinions are more than welcome, but I don't think there's any ambiguity that the POI is wearing sunglasses. The frames and lens are solid. There is ambiguity in whether the chin is a chinstrap or goatee, it makes a huge difference in interpreting the type of helmet, but the sunglasses I just don't see how could be any clearer. My opinion only of course.

 

[Georgia8]

Thanks and of course wearing glasses or sunglasses doesn't preclude anyone.

Just thinking out loud with the following: police or security disguise could possible trick J. But he would have to accost her somewhere. Where? Surely it would have to be somewhere he knew he wasn't seen or it would be reckless to continue to wear the same clothing - a gym or duffel bag would allow a partial change of clothes and the ability to ditch the helmet. And if the motive was sexual assault then really, with all this planning he assaults J. in this gear? And then places it all back on is body? Why do that the trick has been accomplished. For your perception of security/bike security to work seems to me J. would have to have secured for later "use" or delivered if trafficked. Of course if it was a real uniform then he could be at to or coming form work. Overall I am having trouble having it fit though and this apart from what we see exactly in the images.

 

[rd_jfc]

Thanks and of course wearing glasses or sunglasses doesn't preclude anyone.

Just thinking out loud with the following: police or security disguise could possible trick J. But he would have to accost her somewhere. Where? Surely it would have to be somewhere he knew he wasn't seen or it would be reckless to continue to wear the same clothing - a gym or duffel bag would allow a partial change of clothes and the ability to ditch the helmet. And if the motive was sexual assault then really, with all this planning he assaults J. in this gear? And then places it all back on is body? Why do that the trick has been accomplished. For your perception of security/bike security to work seems to me J. would have to have secured for later "use" or delivered if trafficked. Of course if it was a real uniform then he could be at to or coming form work. Overall I am having trouble having it fit though and this apart from what we see exactly in the images.

Breaking it down, sans what POI might be wearing, the nature of the assaults such as Kelsey Smith and Dru Sjodin are opportine in mall parking lots. Not planned and stalking Jennifer. That's my opinion. She drove somewhere close by, possibly Millenium Mall, and was abducted. LE gear may or may not have been part of this POI's MO looking for an opportunity for an abduction.

Parking the car, I would tend to think it makes him look official to be moving her car in uniform. But I would also think it attracts attention. It might be a type of camoflauge, making it more difficult to identify him. It might be his work uniform and he's going to work after picking up his vehicle. I can't say there's a compelling scenario here, something that makes sense. It's completely unexpected to be sure.

I will say LE impersonators attempting to abduct women and children was surprisingly common. I noted when I was researching this back in 2007 how I would run across articles of LE impersonators attempting abductions and post about it. I wasn't even looking for that in particular. Just nature of searches I was doing I would run across them.

Although there's an LE look to this if we could identify that he wearing a toolbelt I would be fine with that. Just whatever narrows down who the POI is.