Found Deceased FL - Lane Graves, 2, Walt Disney World, 14 June 2016 #1

[oceanblueeyes]

I just don't think anyone is at fault. If I have a bbq and a wild animal attacks someone on my property is it my fault?


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If you invite someone to your property you are responsible for making sure they are safe. That is why homeowner's insurance covers such things.

Homeowners have been sued when visitors were hurt on their property.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

June 16th, 2016

Did Disney do enough to warn guests about alligators? Video

Walt Disney World is facing tough questions surrounding the death of 2-year-old Lane Graves, who was attacked by an alligator in one of the lagoons at the Grand Floridian Resort in Orlando, Florida. There are “no swimming” signs posted around the lagoon, but why do they not mention alligators? NBC’s Gabe Gutierrez reports for TODAY. (Run time: 2:07)

http://www.today.com/video/did-disney-do-enough-to-warn-guests-about-alligators-706655299771

 

[Stripehaven]

I just don't think anyone is at fault. If I have a bbq and a wild animal attacks someone on my property is it my fault?


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If you knew there were wild animals around your property and failed to warn your guests, I would say you bear some responsibility. We have friends with property in the Cascade Foothills (western WA), and when we visit, they always remind us that they often see signs of cougar and bear. All of us are cautious any time we are outdoors. But if I did get attacked, I would not fault my friends, as they have informed us of the dangers.

 

[jenves]

The Internet has been a beautiful invention, it has brought our immense unimaginable Earth into our tiny homes. However, along with the good always comes the bad. And I AM SICK OF IT!!! I read a blog post today that spoke exactly what I have been thinking especially over the last month .
It was written on a blog by a mom (initials MF) of four boys (that gives you some info to google it). In it she brings up 2 situations that if you are at least 35 -40 you should recall. I will paraphrase a bit of it below.

35 years ago a mom left her 6 year old son with another group of boys while she looked for something while shopping at the mall.
30 years ago, we sat helpless in front of the TV as workers spent hours trying to free an 18 month old that was stuck in her aunt's well.

That first boy was Adam Walsh and of course the second was Baby Jessica.

Guess what else those 2 events have in common? The entire country LOVED them and SUPPORTED them. I would be naive to think there weren't snarky thoughts entering minds back then...but they didn't have the ability to publicly shame.
And just because we have that ability now does not mean we should.
As the mods say to us here at WS- "scroll and roll," and as my mama always has said "your words have the power to heal and the power to destroy. Use your power carefully."

RIP beautiful Lane. Your life was short, but it reminds me how precious my children are and how easy accidents happen. I pray for your family, currently walking though a blurry unimaginable existence , that each day will bring a renewed strength to cope with coming years. I pray for the big sister left to grow in the shadow of this tragedy, that her life is blessed with unconditional love and support.

 

[JerseyGirl]

I just don't think anyone is at fault. If I have a bbq and a wild animal attacks someone on my property is it my fault?


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Disney INVITES people to use their beaches! At night, there are chairs, bonfires and s'mores and movies shown on those beaches. If you (Disney) invite people to enjoy the beaches it only stands to reason people are going to walk near or into that water from time to time. Especially children.

For me, there is a world of difference between a sign that says “no swimming” and one that says “gators in water.” I won’t be building sand castles on a Disney beach anymore.

Disney is so concerned that you are tall enough to go on certain rides, yet here we have alligators with 80 sharp teeth that can apply 3,700 pounds of pressure per square inch lurking about and not a word or concern.

 

[ninij9]

I swear I read somewhere earlier in the thread that other locations on that lagoon do have signs that specifically mention alligators. The Polynesian, I think, might have been mentioned in that respect.

If that's true, it makes me wonder why they would have alligator warning signs at one resort but not at another.

I've been to Disney -- the various parks, Fort Wilderness, and some of the resorts -- a gazillion times, but I've never personally noticed such signs. Perhaps because, as a Floridian myself, I don't tend to spend time on a lagoon beach when I'm there.

I just went on TripAdvisor and looked at pool and beach pix of Polynesian. Firstly you can see the Grand Floridian right from the beach. Secondly there is a tiny pole sign right at waters edge with a picture I cannot make out. It could say no swimming or alligators. Thirdly there are quite a few picks with families IN the water up to their knees!!!!! Just reporting what I'm gathering.

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[Sonya610]

Disney does not want this one to go to trial due to the severity of loss and how it happened. They will want to make this go away as soon as possible.

I agree. Plus if it did go to trial all sorts of "prior incidents' would come out which would make Disney look bad.

Better to just write a big fat check and wait for the story to fall off the front page. Otherwise they still end up paying a fortune and end up sponsoring a nightmare of bad publicity.

 

[sonjay]

I read that Disney checked the water for alligators and relocated them if they were longer than 4 feet. Can someone explain why that length is the cutoff? Are they too small to do severe damage if they're less than 4 feet long? Obviously I don't know much about alligators. But I also wonder why not relocate all of them, because eventually they'll all get to be longer than 4 feet, right?

A 4-foot gator could do pretty serious damage, if you consider the loss of fingers or hands serious damage. I for sure wouldn't want a 4-foot gator to chomp down on my hand!

A gator that size is highly unlikely to go after a child, though. Also, in the incident we're discussing, if that gator had been a 4-footer, the father could have won the wrestling match and pulled the whole gator, child and all, out of the water.

They grow a foot or less per year -- so they would take several years to get bigger than 4 feet, and by then they'll probably have moved along to some other body of water anyway. Gators move around a lot. Why bother relocating a 2- or 3-foot gator? He's probably going to leave soon anyway, on his own, long before he gets big enough to be dangerous.

Also, and I think this is being overlooked, gators can be awfully hard to spot. They blend into their surroundings unbelievably well. My pond is about a third of an acre -- it's not especially big, and it's fed by an underground aquifer, so the water is crystal clear. When there's a gator in there, I can sometimes see him out my window floating at the surface, but by the time I get outside, he's gone under and I can't find him anywhere. Even when I go up to the top of the little hill we have next to the pond, so that I can look down from above, it's as if he's just not there. Once I was standing for about 15 minutes at the edge of the pond looking for a gator that I knew for sure was in there. I couldn't see him anywhere. Until about the third or fourth time I examined the bank along the edge of the pond right at my feet, and there he was, as motionless as a log, with just his nose above water and some algae draped over his head. He was just a few feet from me, and I hadn't been able to spot him! Disney can only relocate the gators they can find, and gators can be incredibly hard to find.

 

[JerseyGirl]

I read that Disney checked the water for alligators and relocated them if they were longer than 4 feet. Can someone explain why that length is the cutoff? Are they too small to do severe damage if they're less than 4 feet long? Obviously I don't know much about alligators. But I also wonder why not relocate all of them, because eventually they'll all get to be longer than 4 feet, right?

I'm curious to know why they found 5 gaters yesterday if they routinely trap those over 4 feet long.

 

[Jax49]

I'm curious to know why they found 5 gaters yesterday if they routinely trap those over 4 feet long.

They are extremely difficult to spot. See sonjay's post just above.

 

[LisaWL7TR]

My two cents...I grew up in FL, panhandle area and I am a Florida Gator Football Fan. We have been to Disney at least 6 times and never has a Gator crossed my mind.
I do know if there was a sign that said "No Swimming" then I prob wouldn't let my sons play, splash or wade in the water, not sure about hubby. My Mom and Dad did take my oldest, aged 4 at the time off to do things just with him separate from my 2 year old that naps. Anytime he could have gotten away from them. He was very active and they were much older as I was a surprise! What I am trying to say anything could have happened even drowning as my mom doesn't swim.
My heart goes out to this family and they are and will be in my prayers.



Sorry! (apologizing for my oops in advance)
Old Lurker, New Poster

 

[Sonya610]

4 foot would be very small. As Sonjay said it might bite off a finger or snatch a small dog/cat but it would be no match for a grown man. Of course they would be very strong for their size/weight but they still couldn't prevent being snatched up and dragged out of the water while trying to hold on to prey.

The average body weight of alligators 3 feet in length is not quite 4 pounds. Four-foot alligators average about 11 pounds, while gators measuring 5 feet average only about 22 pounds. Children and dogs that exceed these body weights by a factor of several times are not in danger.

http://www.southeasternoutdoors.com/wildlife/reptiles/article/small-alligators-not-problem.html

Here is a man holding a nearly 5 ft gator:

 

[Sonya610]

A gator that size is highly unlikely to go after a child, though. Also, in the incident we're discussing, if that gator had been a 4-footer, the father could have won the wrestling match and pulled the whole gator, child and all, out of the water.

Is it possible he didn't actually try to drag the gator out? But was instead thrashing around in the water trying to get the baby away? Which of course wouldn't work well since gators are going to be twisting/rolling/thrashing and are much better in the water than humans are.

Personally I could see the dad doing that, ferociously trying to make the gator release the baby without thinking "just pull it out of the water and deal with it on land before the he disappears".

 

[LisaWL7TR]

4 foot would be very small. As Sonjay said it might bite off a finger or snatch a small dog/cat but it would be no match for a grown man. Of course they would be very strong for their size/weight but they still couldn't prevent being snatched up and dragged out of the water while trying to hold on to prey.


Here is a man holding a nearly 5 ft gator:

I saw a gator crossing the road in SC once. Looking at this pic I would say he was only about 3 feet but his tail was already so strong/powerful.

Sorry! (apologizing for my oops in advance)
Old Lurker, New Poster

 

[keyleigh]

I just don't think anyone is at fault. If I have a bbq and a wild animal attacks someone on my property is it my fault?


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If you know you have wild animals on your property and you don't warn your guests, yes I believe you are at fault.

 

[JerseyGirl]

They are extremely difficult to spot. See sonjay's post just above.

Disney has an entire staff of people in that their main job is to spot and capture these creatures.

Someone's sleeping on the job.

 

[Auburnlucky7]

Good morning, I lurk a lot and post a little. My understanding is that Disney does not relocate gators, they are removed and euthanized as they have already had human contact. Such a horrible horrible accident, my heart and prayers go out to this family.

They would swallow it all in big chunks.

Disney normally relocates gators over 4 feet (presumably if they catch them). In this case they are hunting down gators and cutting them open to look for body parts. Four have been killed so far with no results.

Why are they doing that? Can't they just x-ray them? These aren't giant behemouth 900 lb animals, I don't understand why they can't put them on an x-ray table, check for parts and then relocate those that are clear. I would think a 2 year old's bones would be dense enough to show up on the x-ray.


Alligator with bone in stomach:

 

[sonjay]

4 foot would be very small. As Sonjay said it might bite off a finger or snatch a small dog/cat but it would be no match for a grown man. Of course they would be very strong for their size/weight but they still couldn't prevent being snatched up and dragged out of the water while trying to hold on to prey.


Here is a man holding a nearly 5 ft gator:

And here's the gator my dog found out in the field beyond the pond. I think that one was around 4, maybe 5 feet.

 

[Sonya610]

Disney has an entire staff of people in that their main job is to spot and capture these creatures.

Someone's sleeping on the job.

Disney never said they try to remove every gator, they only try to remove the ones that are 4+ feet.

Since there are quite a few gators in the lagoon, and also traveling to and from other connected bodies of water then removing the 4+ footers would be very hit or miss. They would see them all the time and only occasionally notice "Hey that one looks much bigger than 4 feet" and even then they wouldn't be in a position to run out and catch it before it disappeared.

 

[ninij9]

Disney could turn the lagoon into an alligator experience exhibit ala Steve Erwin with education and shows. Take out the silly beach with forbidden water feature that they currently have.

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