GUILTY FL - Lonzie Barton, 2, Jacksonville, 24 July 2015 - #1

[SCHMAE]

Folks, we can all agree the mother has had a less than stellar life but LE has stated she is cooperating.

She is considered a victim here at WS and I'm sure she is suffering immensely of the choices that may have been made.

Victim Friendly

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way and ONLY IF IT IS RELEVANT TO THE CASE.

Additionally, sleuthing family members or others that are not suspect is not allowed. Don't make random accusations or post personal information (even if it is public) like parking tickets, address, or first and last names of all their relatives and their neighbors. Also, never "bash" or attack them, or accuse them of involvement. However that does not mean that family members or others cannot come into discussion as the facts and issues of the case are discussed.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?65798-Etiquette-amp-Information

Please consider that when posting.

Thank you

Word ! I'm sure she's questioning every decision she's made the last few months. I feel like she was trapped and threatened into her 'choices' by this man. I doubt if anyone could be harder on her than she is on herself right now. Her baby is missing and likely an angel. They're both HIS victims.

 

[Fireweed]

I didn't become aware of Lonzie until late yesterday. I read 48 pages here and then realized it will take me a long time to catch up on everything. This is so sad. Unfortunately, there are thousands of Lonzies in our communities. Thousands of innocent children who could be "disappeared" at any time.

I hope Lonzie is found but I think there's a good chance that he won't be unless WE talks. I think WE may have had somewhat of a plan. Maybe he didn't plan to "disappear" Lonzie at this time and in this exact way but I bet his mind has stewed over the possibility a bit. He sounds like a mean, vindictive person so I am guessing he has mean, vindictive thoughts. IMO he is calculating. I think he had a place for Lonzie already in mind before this even happened.

So much water in that area and some of it is practically black. The wooded areas are lush. I noticed that LE kept reminding people to look under tarps. They specifically mentioned tarps quite a few times.

Interesting that the neighbor who talked about seeing the car in front of his home mentioned that LE wanted to see his home security video. Then he said they didn't see anything on it. But, LE was quick IMO to rule out an attempted car theft. Maybe they did find something on the video.

I think that sometimes we forget that the cops talk to the suspects right away and can get a pretty good idea as to what happened just from that. If you are curious then I suggest you read the statement analysis blog to see what I mean. It is not that hard to tell when a person is lying. I think often times LE will go with the abduction story in the press for a couple of days just to put the suspect at ease. They let them tell the story publicly and dig their own grave. Look at the Susan Smith case. The cops there were brilliant. They went along with her story and let her speak. Had they accused her right away she would have gotten a lawyer and shut up.

In the end going with the abduction story for a time makes no difference because LE was going to search for the child anyway.

Some people here mentioned that LE wants people to look under tarps. It is possible that words having to with "coverings" entered into the suspects vocabulary as LE was talking to him without him realizing it. Didn't Casey Anthony say something like, "it's not like she (her daughter) is out in the woods somewhere!" And that is exactly where she was.

 

[Alliacgc]

Lay off the mom for now she is a victim and focus on the boy and person locked up.
Please.

Agreed, this doesn't get anyone anywhere. Like it or not, the way a person was raised strongly affects who they become and their idea of right and wrong on a moral standpoint. So all this judging going around, and all of these "what I would and wouldn't do" comments are completely irrelevant and unnecessary. Put the focus where it belongs people....that would be on finding sweet Lonzie.

 

[Alliacgc]

Word ! I'm sure she's questioning every decision she's made the last few months. I feel like she was trapped and threatened into her 'choices' by this man. I doubt if anyone could be harder on her than she is on herself right now. Her baby is missing and likely an angel. They're both HIS victims.

Agreed.

 

[JDauxa]

People are going to hate me for saying this but....I see a lot of assumptions being made regarding the lack of concern coming from Lonna and Chris Barton as well as their parenting abilities or lack thereof ect...

I think it is important to note that Cheif Hackney has been concerned all along about providing them with answers. I also think there is something to be said about his decision not to involve the public in search efforts as I'm sure he had his own suspicions about Ebron from the start but could not voice that suspicion to the public without evidence to back it up.

That being said, I am certain he could have and probably did share his concerns with Lonzie's families. If he genuinely thought this was an abduction from the start, in my opinion, this entire investigation would have played out differently with regards to asking for assistance in search efforts from the public as well as pleas made to the public by Lonna and Chris for whomever had Lonzie to return him unharmed.

Furthermore, while I agree that the issues of domestic violence on part of the Chris Barton, drugs on Lonna's part, as well as Lonna neglectfully allowing someone like Ebron to care for her children are issues that should have been addressed and dealt with; the simple fact is that they weren't and as a result they will not likely ever see their sweet baby boys face again...at least not as it was before.

No, they were not smart or great caregivers and yes, they lived selfishly with a mindset that things couldn't or wouldn't happen to them BUT that does not mean they do not love their children. It simply means that they have not had to learn hard lessons in life and probably did not have the best upbringing themselves.

We don't need to keep bashing them right now because I guarantee you, based on the impression I am getting from Cheif Hackney, the end result here is going to crush them beyond comprehension. I believe Detective Hackney sees that these parents do care or he wouldn't keep making personal reference to getting them answers. Just my opinion but we've all made mistakes in life and it is not our place to judge....as long as they are innocent in Lonzie's disappearance, then anything and everything else can be addressed later. My heart goes out to them, I can't even imagine the hurt they are experiencing right now....this is the ultimate price for anyone to have to pay for mistakes made along the way.

Great post! I couldn't agree more with you. Thank you thank you thank you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[donada]

People are going to hate me for saying this but....I see a lot of assumptions being made regarding the lack of concern coming from Lonna and Chris Barton as well as their parenting abilities or lack thereof ect...

Original snipped for space

No hate here for sure. Pretty much everything you said I agree with. Just my own thoughts here: Maybe he does not want the CIRCUS atmosphere that came with the Anthony and Cummings cases so there will be a better judicial outcome in the end.
Hope this makes sense.

 

[swedie]

LE do not believe the car theft and abduction happened. WE is lying to investigators, he is somewhat cooperative, going from the point of being remorseful then to self preservation.

They believe WE may have talked to friends about what happened to Lonzie and LE are asking those friends to come forward by calling LE or Crimestoppers to leave an anonymous tip.

Video
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/n...-old-missing-after-reported-vehicle-ta/nm52T/

 

[Alliacgc]

Great post! I couldn't agree more with you. Thank you thank you thank you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Your welcome and thank you. I have a different view than a lot of people, I'm sure, but I stand firm in how I feel. We need to support this family in finding their sweet baby boy, not continue to tear them apart by passing judgement. The we know to be person responsible Is in jail and that is what is most important.

 

[Alliacgc]

Original snipped for space

No hate here for sure. Pretty much everything you said I agree with. Just my own thoughts here: Maybe he does not want the CIRCUS atmosphere that came with the Anthony and Cummings cases so there will be a better judicial outcome in the end.
Hope this makes sense.

Could be, however, it is HOW he keeps referring to them as well as how often rather than it is so much that he is referring to them...I don't know if that makes sense either.

 

[southernmimi]

I'm sorry but I disagree. Rehab and parenting classes cost money. Welfare doesn't cover enough to provide housing and food. I know. I have been on it. And having a free public education for 12 years doesn't necessarily equate to life skills and emotional health.

We can agree to disagree but please do not be naive and please do not pretend that we have all the available resources for anyone in a bad situation. If we did, this stuff wouldn't happen at all.

These problems go far deeper. We can blame the mother and put her in jail but that is a band-aid as far as I am concerned. It doesn't help her or her other children. In fact, all that does is give her a criminal background which makes it hopeless for her to EVER turn her life around.

If you want to talk about it to help save the next, then let's talk about it. Let's talk about reliable free or cheap childcare. Let's talk about free mental health care. Let's talk about free college education. Let's talk about removing the stigma of "being poor". Let's talk about how WE as a society can step up to help instead of butting in to judge.

I was a casemanager in social services for over 30yrs. I worked with adults 18 and over. The money received from welfare was more than enough to pay for subsidized housing and utitilies. Most even had cable tv, phones and other non-essential items. For those who chose to further their education, there are Pell Grants and other financial assistance to help with the costs. Most states offer assistance with childcare if the parent is going back to school. In all my years of employment, I saw those who were determined and found a way. I also saw those who made excuses and never made it out of their situation. It's a choice to be a parent, a choice to ignore opportunities, and a choice to see yourself as poor or rich.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Both Lonie's parents are related to Haleigh?

I was under the impression that Haleigh Cummings was related to Lonzie through his mother's side...

:waitasec:

 

[Alliacgc]

I was under the impression that Haleigh Cummings was related to Lonzie through his mother's side...

:waitasec:

That is correct.

 

[MotherOcean]

I have a general question. If caregivers of minors are arrested for drugs, does CPS get involved? Do they investigate the welfare of the children living with people charged with drugs? I don't know.

In my experience, CPS normally only gets involved in that type of a situation if there is a bio. parent or extended family member who pushes for it. I know a mother who has custody of one child but another child is in the system. The only difference is that one child has a bio. father who is fighting for custody and the other child does not. It's very sad. In this particular incident, the mother has a charge for purchasing a drug but it was the bio. dad who totally set her up. For a fact! To say the system is broken is a major understatement.

 

[Tssiemer]

I was a casemanager in social services for over 30yrs. I worked with adults 18 and over. The money received from welfare was more than enough to pay for subsidized housing and utitilies. Most even had cable tv, phones and other non-essential items. For those who chose to further their education, there are Pell Grants and other financial assistance to help with the costs. Most states offer assistance with childcare if the parent is going back to school. In all my years of employment, I saw those who were determined and found a way. I also saw those who made excuses and never made it out of their situation. It's a choice to be a parent, a choice to ignore opportunities, and a choice to see yourself as poor or rich.

As a social worker who was a case manager for severally mentally ill, therapeutic foster care therapist and now a chemical dependency counselor .... I'm staying out of this.
More money for more programs can always help though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tssiemer]

I have a general question. If caregivers of minors are arrested for drugs, does CPS get involved? Do they investigate the welfare of the children living with people charged with drugs? I don't know.

As a chemical dependency counselor in Ohio there is always an investigation. If neglect is found which almost always is then they take custody. Children services is our number 1 referral source behind drug court.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sunflowerchick]

I was a casemanager in social services for over 30yrs. I worked with adults 18 and over. The money received from welfare was more than enough to pay for subsidized housing and utitilies. Most even had cable tv, phones and other non-essential items. For those who chose to further their education, there are Pell Grants and other financial assistance to help with the costs. Most states offer assistance with childcare if the parent is going back to school. In all my years of employment, I saw those who were determined and found a way. I also saw those who made excuses and never made it out of their situation. It's a choice to be a parent, a choice to ignore opportunities, and a choice to see yourself as poor or rich.

Considering the waiting lists and conditions of most subsidized housing, this is laughable. Again, I know because I have been there. I was fortunate enough to take advantage of Pell Grants and other help to pull myself up by the bootstraps but it was never that easy. I juggled many bills and have terrible credit as a result of never enough money coming in. But I was one of the "lucky" ones. I know many who can't make it to where I am and I am not even well-off. Funny thing is, many of them are sober, responsible adults but they can't afford child care, utilities, housing, or basic necessities.

But honestly, we could argue all day about what is and isn't available in the system. That isn't really the issue. The issue is ONE suspect in this case who won't tell where this baby is. MR. EBRON, WHERE IS LONZIE?

 

[Fireweed]

Is advocating prison time for mom really within TOS when we have been told she is a VICTIM?

It was a hypothetical and was not advocating prison for the mom.

 

[Wandagannon]

Amen. Well I put my money where my mouth is every single week when I pay my taxes (more than a thousand a week BTW). I go to work and earn a wage, a portion of which goes for services for people like this mother. I am not a social worker or a doctor specializing in addiction. The way our society works is that someone like me with no skills in "helping people" goes to work and pays part of my salary to go to someone with skills for helping people. It's a much better system than someone with no training providing "help" and potentially screwing it massively. Every single person here with a job who pays taxes has done their part to help this woman and other women like her.

I agree with this. I was a single mom, one child and rent to pay. I didn't bring home all the pay I made. A portion (huge portion) of it went to providing services for other single moms. I struggled but I did it, without a deadbeat man and without assistance from anybody. If you love your kids above all else, you make it happen. If he didn't have such an extensive record and he hurt the child, I would feel bad for her. But when you lay with dogs, you wake up with fleas. I knew me and my son were a package deal and the day I decided to be a mother is the day I decided to put someone else's needs above my own.

 

[Kamille]

Is it possible he had the 5yr old with him when he may have disposed of Lonzie, perhaps in a retention pond, or dropped her off in the trailer park for a short time and her recollections are what is driving the investigation right now?

 

[Fireweed]

Is it possible he had the 5yr old with him when he may have disposed of Lonzie, perhaps in a retention pond, or dropped her off in the trailer park for a short time and her recollections are what is driving the investigation right now?

I am wondering how well a five year old child forms memories or is aware of what is going on at 2 in the morning when a child's normal circadian rhythm would make that child incredibly sleepy and out of it.

I would also be interested to know if getting the children up in the middle of the night to pick up mom was their usual routine or if this night was different from the others.