GUILTY FL - Manhunt in Tampa after 4 slayings in 5 weeks, Oct-Nov 2017 #3 *Arrest*

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If they give immunity to spouses why don't they give the same immunity to parents. They should not need the parents to provide information if they are sure DH did it and as far as his mental capacity, a psychologist/psychiatrist would be able to give that information. Would it not be better for a psychologist to speak with the parents instead of trying to weasel information to pit parent against child. I don't agree with this process in Florida and apparently a lot of people don't understand why there is not a law against this. Not defending DH actions, just saying that if they have a strong case, why do they need to make the parents of the accused victims in this too.
 
Personally, I will wait to judge anyone, and that goes for both sides of this horrible and mysterious case, until more information comes out.
Prosecution believe they have a strong case, on the other hand the defence seems like the don't believe that at all...
Just my humble opinion...
 
Theforeigner said:
Personally, I will wait to judge anyone, and that goes for both sides of this horrible and mysterious case, until more information comes out.
Prosecution believe they have a strong case, on the other hand the defence seems like the don't believe that at all...
Just my humble opinion...
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Coaxing information from parents should not be allowed. They can potentially twist their words to suit the prosecution.
 
The parents are not being asked to testify. They need to stop grandstanding. This is not about THEM. It is about the 4 people that were murdered in cold blood by their son.

They are willing to go to jail not to testify against their son,” he told FOX 13. “They believe in America. That is a core value of the religious, principled, patriotic segment of the population. We will not testify against their son. This goes back to the early days of the Bible.”
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Smarmy lawyer! I'm going to shut up now. I do hope they give some answers to the Judge.

http://www.bradenton.com/news/local/crime/article188285023.html
 
By Dan Sullivan, Staff Writer, Tampa Bay Times
Dec 6 17 at 06:24 pm


"State law provides immunity to witnesses who are called to testify in a State Attorney’s investigation, said Stephen Romine, a Tampa-area defense attorney who is not involved in the Donaldson case.
...
"Tactically, what it does is it gives (prosecutors) a free look at what the truth is," Romine said. The state can only charge a witness if they develop evidence independent of the testimony, he said.

The events in Donaldson’s case appear to parallel those of another high-profile case in which Romine assisted.

In 2004, Jennifer Porter was arrested when she drove off after accidentally striking four children with her car, killing two. In that case, prosecutors tried to force her parents to talk about what they knew regarding the hit-and-run.

But they refused, invoking their Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination. Fernandez was their attorney at the time.

Prosecutors told the Porters they could not invoke the Fifth Amendment because they had immunity. At a hearing, a judge warned the couple they could be jailed if they did not cooperate. A few days later, they reluctantly agreed to testify."

bbm



Father of suspected Tampa serial killer refused to answer investigators' questions
By Julia Jacobo, ABC News
Dec 6 17, 5:04 pm

"...
At the Office of the State Attorney, Howell Donaldson, Jr. was placed under oath. A court reporter explained to him that he did not have a constitutional right against self-incrimination and did not have the right to refuse to answer questions from the assistant state attorney, as a result of the immunity granted to him by Florida law, the motion states.

He would not answer any questions related to his son's background, developmental history, mode of transportation, gun possession and ownership or state of mind, according to the court document.

"Mr. Donaldson’s refusal to testify in the above-described proceeding, despite having received a court-authorized subpoena, constitutes indirect criminal contempt of this Honorable Court," the motion states.
...
[parents' lawyer]
"did not immediately respond to ABC News' request for comment."

bbm




https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/...fore-a-judge-for-refusing-to-answer-questions

http://www.fox13news.com/news/local...iller-to-face-judge-over-refusal-of-testimony
 
Bootsctr said:
The parents are not being asked to testify. They need to stop grandstanding. This is not about THEM. It is about the 4 people that were murdered in cold blood by their son.



Smarmy lawyer! I'm going to shut up now. I do hope they give some answers to the Judge.

http://www.bradenton.com/news/local/crime/article188285023.html
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YES, I agree completely on both of these points. The lawyer is grandstanding, too. As the District Attorney said, "no one's been asked to testify to anything. An investigative subpoena has them come and answer questions in a private environment as part of the investigation." That defense attorney really gave quite the little speech about his clients standing up for American, biblical, principled ideals by refusing to testify against their son. Nothing about thou shall not kill, I suppose.

What the parents and this lawyer don't seem to understand is that "the system" did not/is not making victims out of them. Their son did.
 
LotusPawprint said:
Hi all, It's been a while since I've been on WS but this case has had me seething quietly and more and more so as things have progressed.I fear this is going to be a long and frustrating road for the victims' families, in large part because of this particular defendant and his "people". I think most people were or tried to be empathetic towards the killer's parents, and I was among them -- seem(ed) like decent enough people, professional family, involved in community, etc.

My empathy, however, is waning quickly. Their refusal to answer essential questions and address crucial issues is very telling on several levels. Their participation in the state's investigation would not necessarily incriminate their son -- especially if he is innocent of these horrendous crimes ... though at this point, who knows what they themselves even believe or know to be true. I understand wanting to protect one's child. They cannot shield their grown, adult child from his own actions and his own consequences and they will not get to withhold important information by hiding behind whatever pain or guilt they are feeling as a result of his actions.

I do hope that they will not make any more empty statements about feeling sad for the families of the four victims as they actively block the investigation that could shed light and truth onto their son's actions (whatever they may be - guilty or otherwise) and impede the justice process.




http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...talk-to-investigators-judge-to-rule_163337832
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I totally agree with you.

If my sons or daughters or my own brother sister mother or father committed this horrendous crime I would tell them to own up to it and face the consequences for their actions.

Sure I would try to get a good lawyer for them if I could afford one for the sole purpose of trying not to get the death penalty and to try to get them some mental help which apparently is needed. What I would not do is start to disobey the court myself and get myself or anybody else in more legal trouble.

Its way past time he owns up to his crimes

If they continue down this path then it will show them as dishonorable people IMO. They need to do the honorable thing and face the truth of what their family member has done. Help him where they can yes but it is shocking to me that they appear to be disobeying rules of the court already.
 
Hatfield said:
I totally agree with you.

If my sons or daughters or my own brother sister mother or father committed this horrendous crime I would tell them to own up to it and face the consequences for their actions.

Sure I would try to get a good lawyer for them if I could afford one for the sole purpose of trying not to get the death penalty and to try to get them some mental help which apparently is needed. What I would not do is start to disobey the court myself and get myself or anybody else in more legal trouble.

Its way past time he owns up to his crimes

If they continue down this path then it will show them as dishonorable people IMO. They need to do the honorable thing and face the truth of what their family member has done. Help him where they can yes but it is shocking to me that they appear to be disobeying rules of the court already.
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I agree.
It doesn't look good for them. It makes them look guilty of covering up his crimes. Perhaps, they did know?
 
Flowercb said:
If they give immunity to spouses why don't they give the same immunity to parents. They should not need the parents to provide information if they are sure DH did it and as far as his mental capacity, a psychologist/psychiatrist would be able to give that information. Would it not be better for a psychologist to speak with the parents instead of trying to weasel information to pit parent against child. I don't agree with this process in Florida and apparently a lot of people don't understand why there is not a law against this. Not defending DH actions, just saying that if they have a strong case, why do they need to make the parents of the accused victims in this too.
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That was my first reaction too. I was surprised they were even trying to ask the parents anything. I knew spouses have some kind of privilege and am surprised that parents dont have the same privilege.

I think there is a simple tactic that is probably used a lot of the times when it comes to something like this. Instead of totally refusing to cooperate I suspect some people in their situation would answer questions with responses like this.
"I dont know"
"I dont remember"
"Im not sure"

Ive seen hostile witnesses answer like that before
 
Hatfield said:
That was my first reaction too. I was surprised they were even trying to ask the parents anything. I knew spouses have some kind of privilege and am surprised that parents dont have the same privilege.

I think there is a simple tactic that is probably used a lot of the times when it comes to something like this. Instead of totally refusing to cooperate I suspect some people in their situation would answer questions with responses like this.
"I dont know"
"I dont remember"
"Im not sure"

Ive seen hostile witnesses answer like that before
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By refusing at first, at least they know the type of questions they will be asked so that they can be prepared and talk to each other to make sure they are answering the same way.
 
[video=youtube;ltWG2tUtU-I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltWG2tUtU-I[/video]
Family of Seminole Heights victims meet with State Attorney regarding death penalty of suspect
WFLA News Channel 8
Dec 6, 2017
 
Hatfield said:
I totally agree with you.

If my sons or daughters or my own brother sister mother or father committed this horrendous crime I would tell them to own up to it and face the consequences for their actions.

Sure I would try to get a good lawyer for them if I could afford one for the sole purpose of trying not to get the death penalty and to try to get them some mental help which apparently is needed. What I would not do is start to disobey the court myself and get myself or anybody else in more legal trouble.

Its way past time he owns up to his crimes

If they continue down this path then it will show them as dishonorable people IMO. They need to do the honorable thing and face the truth of what their family member has done. Help him where they can yes but it is shocking to me that they appear to be disobeying rules of the court already.
Click to expand...

I'm with you on all of this.

If it were my loved one or someone I knew- I would demand the truth. I wouldn't want my feelings to be protected and other people to continue to be hurt with lies or partial truths. Nope, can't handle that in daily life and couldn't handle that in something so life-altering. Give me the truth and we'll work with that. Like you said, get them the best attorney. Make sure they get the fair trial every citizen deserves. But redeem whatever decency you have left in you and do not continue to devastate your loved ones and other innocent people.

But that's just me and I can't speak for parents of this defendant.
 
Flowercb said:
By refusing at first, at least they know the type of questions they will be asked so that they can be prepared and talk to each other to make sure they are answering the same way.
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:yeahthat:

Great tactic, and one I would never think of.
 
[video=youtube;lSj_nPhF7e4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSj_nPhF7e4[/video]
Corey Davis reports (paraphrased) 'tonight the parents' lawyer says there are other factors they'll explain to judge tomorrow.'
WFLA News Channel 8
Dec 6, 17
 
FindHG said:
[video=youtube;lSj_nPhF7e4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSj_nPhF7e4[/video]
Corey Davis reports (paraphrased) 'tonight the parents' lawyer says there are other factors they'll explain to judge tomorrow.'
WFLA News Channel 8
Dec 6, 2017

Other factors besides what factors?
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Are these people enabling or what?! Sure, maybe psychologically there is a rich explanation but that can’t explain EVER murdering four people


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
If the parents do say anything it will be a statement, in part saying, "our lives were perfect until November the 28." That is the day their son was arrested for the four murders that occurred within 51 days in Seminole Heights.
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I find that is a very interesting thing to say. "Their lives were perfect"? It's kind of a blissful, romanticized statement and view of one's family life. Is that really how their life / lives were? Or how they believed them to be? Or how they portrayed them to be? Were they unaware of any problems going on right under their nose? Or are they saying that in retrospect, life before their son was arrested for being a serial killer seemed pretty perfect (that makes sense).

The 'life was perfect' comment sure leads to some follow-up questions. Would this indicate that HD didn't have any known behavioral or mental health issues? That he was perfectly well adjusted and didn't have any problems? There is the criminal incident in New York that is still sealed. How minor was it that it had to be sealed and was it known to the family? He left/lost his job earlier this year before eventually landing the McDonalds gig.

The State's Attorney wants to question the parents about "the son’s background, developmental history, mode of transportation, gun possession and state of mind." If "life" was perfect and things with HD were all hunky-dory, what is there to hide... either on the parents' part or their son's behalf? If they don't believe he is a person is capable of these murders and it is completely against his character, why not proclaim his innocence. Why not declare it. Why not cooperate with the investigation if "LIFE WAS PERFECT" and answer the questions about his background or history or if asked about specifics like gun possession, mode of transportation -- perhaps you all will be his alibi and clear some things up.

:thinking:





https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/...fore-a-judge-for-refusing-to-answer-questions
 
LotusPawprint said:
I find that is a very interesting thing to say. "Their lives were perfect"? It's kind of a blissful, romanticized statement and view of one's family life. Is that really how their life / lives were? Or how they believed them to be? Or how they portrayed them to be? Were they unaware of any problems going on right under their nose? Or are they saying that in retrospect, life before their son was arrested for being a serial killer seemed pretty perfect (that makes sense).

The 'life was perfect' comment sure leads to some follow-up questions. Would this indicate that HD didn't have any known behavioral or mental health issues? That he was perfectly well adjusted and didn't have any problems? There is the criminal incident in New York that is still sealed. How minor was it that it had to be sealed and was it known to the family? He left/lost his job earlier this year before eventually landing the McDonalds gig.

The State's Attorney wants to question the parents about "the son’s background, developmental history, mode of transportation, gun possession and state of mind." If "life" was perfect and things with HD were all hunky-dory, what is there to hide... either on the parents' part or their son's behalf? If they don't believe he is a person is capable of these murders and it is completely against his character, why not proclaim his innocence. Why not declare it. Why not cooperate with the investigation if "LIFE WAS PERFECT" and answer the questions about his background or history or if asked about specifics like gun possession, mode of transportation -- perhaps you all will be his alibi and clear some things up.

:thinking:





https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/...fore-a-judge-for-refusing-to-answer-questions
Click to expand...

any person who claims to have the perfect life, or claims to be perfectly happy, or waxes poetic about their blissful and carefree life is doing nothing more than blowing smoke out of their you-know-what.

people who are truly happy don't feel the need to convince others that they are. like the saying goes... "confidence is silent; insecurities are loud."
 
I agree. I would bet he was just feeling superior. he may have even been challenging them. I don't think he believed he would be arrested then and there. he was probably high on power and of having everyone terrified of him. they were not on to him until then. it's also possible he wanted notoriety and wanted people to know it was him. it's quite possible he had motivation to show the world that his family is not what they want people to believe. tiny possibility it was a cry for help (mental/developmental disorder, etc).

Betty P said:
Serial killers and other sociopathic killers often have narcissistic personality traits. They sometimes think they're smarter than everyone else and think they won't get caught. They enjoy challenges and risk. JMO. Considering the guy hasn't expressed any remorse thus far it seems unlikely he was feeling guilty and was trying to get caught.
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