FL - Mass Shooting at Pulse Nightclub, Orlando 12 June 2016 #3

[Dallasdon]

Sorry if this had already been posted... but sometimes the most unexpected things bring out my emotional side.

You really need to watch this John Oliver clip, if you haven't seen it yet.

[video=youtube;YS8cm3kmyWs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS8cm3kmyWs&feature=player_embedded[/video]

 

[bluesneakers]

I don't get why he would need to survey Pulse if he had been there a dozen times over a 3-year period. So is this the same person?

Going to a place to hang out isn't the same as casing it and planning an attack. There's a lot to consider and a lot you don't see if you're there for work or pleasure.

 

[Everyday Grace]

Please don't think I'm being petty, however, if the shooter, in fact, had an AR-15, he did not have an "assault" rifle. The "AR" simply stands for the company that made them, ArmaLite (why they didn't use AL is quite beyond me). The AR-15 works much the same as any other firearm, such as my own pistol. You pull the trigger it fires a round. However, it is capable of firing up to 60 rounds per minute (iirc). You can get magazines that hold up to 30 rounds (I've read that people can modify those and put two together. I am not 100% sure on that.) An assault rifle is fully automatic rifle -- it is a machine gun, and it is capable of firing 1,000 rpm. An assault rifle will also have a folding stock, a very noticeable, protruding, pistol grip, and a bayonet mount. Both are nothing to play with but I did want to clear up the difference. People are drawn to the AR-15, imo, b/c it is very lightweight (5lbs +/-) and the large capacity magazines.

It was a Sig Sauer MCX.

In the hours after Sunday’s mass shooting at an Orlando night club, Chief John Mina of the Orlando Police Department said the gunman’s weapons included a pistol and an “AR-15-type assault rifle.”

On Monday night, officials clarified that the rifle Omar Mateen used in the shooting was not an AR-15, but a Sig Sauer MCX rifle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...sed-was-not-an-ar-15-that-doesnt-change-much/

The chief didn't say it was an AR-15, but an "AR-15 type."

It seems AR-15 has almost become a generic description as the words are more recognizable to folks than, say, Sig Sauer.

I get more hung-up on the mis-identifier of "automatic weapon" than I do on "assault weapon." Semi-automatic and automatic being two distinctly different capabilities.

For me the term "assault rifle" is more open to interpretation, incorporating design factors, ammunition specs, as well as firing capabilities.

I am seeing more and more reporters use the phrase "assault-type weapon." More room for interpretation, but probably doesn't cut down on the hate mail they receive over the issue.

If any video surveillance from inside Pulse exists and is ever released, that could be educational, giving the general public a pretty good sense of the capabilities of a semi-automatic Sig Sauer rifle.

 

[DanceCard]

His father being interviewed by Sky. If you don't want to watch all 5 mins of this, at least watch from 3.40 onwards.

http://news.sky.com/video/1711734/killers-dad-on-nightclub-attack

 

[cvaldez1975]

I still don't buy it. he was on jackr, grindr and socializing w the gay men he met. if he had been said to have only been seen at the club a few times, then I would say he was casing it. this guy was on the DL.

BBM

But Daveed Gartenstein-Ross, a counterterrorism analyst and senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, told Business Insider that it's not all that unusual for a jihadist at Mateen's level to have conflicting sympathies for different terror groups.

Mateen's contradictory allegiances are "not only unsurprising, it's what you'd expect," he said.

http://www.businessinsider.com/james-comey-orlando-shooting-omar-mateen-fbi-2016-6

 

[Renee110]

Fox news interview with Homeland Security Secretary right now.

Says Shooter radicalized after seeing what Shooter viewed on internet.

 

[cvaldez1975]

you have a point, but cumulative to all the other info out (socializing w gay men, being on grindr and jackr) I would say he was on the DL. he grew up hearing his dad condemn homosexuality and hated that part of himself so maybe he was attempting to "radical" it out of himself. and the truth will come out and I may be wrong, which is fine, but either way the primary motivation in my opinion was he was gay himself and lashed out at those that were like the part of himself he hated.

I have no problem believing he could have been gay or repressed gay but I can't ignore that he travelled to Saudi Arabia twice in recent two years, which is expensive, and was one day drive from Yemen where apparently many go to get radicalized. First trip he was there 10 days, second there 8 days. Many experts on this have said that 2 trips 2 years in a row raises huge red flag. Then the next 2 years investigated 2 separate times for ties to terrorism. Watching beheading videos, watching radical teaching videos. Supposedly also considered Disney as a target. He was quite effective with those guns, achieving great destruction. I can swallow one coincidence. Maybe two. Not sure about three, but definitely not that many. I'm not saying he wasn't gay. I just don't believe that is all there is to this attack. IMO

 

[Dr. Know?]

The father of the Orlando gunman tells Sky News the attack could have been prevented if the club had better security.

http://news.sky.com/video/1711734/killers-dad-on-nightclub-attack

grrrr

 

[DanceCard]

http://news.sky.com/video/1711734/killers-dad-on-nightclub-attack

grrrr

grrrr indeed! I'm outraged and it's late here and I'm so wound up now I won't sleep.

 

[Sonya610]

The chief didn't say it was an AR-15, but an "AR-15 type."

It seems AR-15 has almost become a generic description as the words are more recognizable to folks than, say, Sig Sauer.

Sig Sauer is the Brand/Manufacturer. MCX is the model. Sig Sauer is a highly regarded Swiss gun manufacturer that turns out a number of pistols and rifles. http://www.sigsauer.com/Catalog/rifles.aspx

Lots of companies make rifles using an AR platform, Bushmaster, Ruger, Sig Sauer, Colt etc... Just like lots of auto manufacturers turn out SUVs, and each SUV model will have it's own name (Chevy Suburban, Cadillac Escalade).

AR is like saying SUV, it describes the type of rifle just like the term SUV describes a type of passenger vehicle.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Orlando survivor: Shooter spoke to us

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2016/06/14/orlando-shooter-spoke-survivor-911-call.cnn

 

[tehcloser]

Boy his "father" is a piece of work isn't he? I hope they can nail him with something also.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Source: Orlando gunman told wife of interest in terror attack

Justice Department prosecutors and FBI investigators are now reviewing her account and other evidence to determine whether they can bring charges of misprision of a felony because she allegedly failed to report her knowledge of his general plans to carry out some kind of attack.
Misprision is deliberate concealment of knowledge of a pending crime.

Developing story per link

[video=cnn;us/2016/06/14/orlando-gunman-timeline-before-attack-brown-dnt-lead.cnn]http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/14/us/orlando-gunman-omar-mateen-wife-fbi/index.html[/video]

 

[katydid23]

you have a point, but cumulative to all the other info out (socializing w gay men, being on grindr and jackr) I would say he was on the DL. he grew up hearing his dad condemn homosexuality and hated that part of himself so maybe he was attempting to "radical" it out of himself. and the truth will come out and I may be wrong, which is fine, but either way the primary motivation in my opinion was he was gay himself and lashed out at those that were like the part of himself he hated.

I am kind of on the fence because no one has said they met up with him and/or hooked up with him. I just saw one guy interviewed, who said he talked to him several times on Grinder, and he said the shooter would ask about 'which clubs' were hot and popping. I almost feel like he was imagining himself as an 'undercover' operator, as if he was finally a cop.

 

[bluesneakers]

:furious:

His father being interviewed by Sky. If you don't want to watch all 5 mins of this, at least watch from 3.40 onwards.

http://news.sky.com/video/1711734/killers-dad-on-nightclub-attack

First of all at the security comment: :stormingmad:

It's like he's some kind of violence and hate trifecta: ISIS/terrorism, homophobia, mass shooter.

This is the world we live in now.

 

[human]

Carter, 20 years old, had fled into the bathroom of Pulse nightclub during the Orlando massacre, and as the situation was winding down, she said the gunman told police negotiators on the phone that he pledged his allegiance to ISIS, and that he wouldn't stop his assault until America stopped bombing his country.

http://www.wtsp.com/news/orlando-survivor-gunman-tried-to-spare-black-people/243868902

I really shouldn't comment... so I won't.

He is doing it for his country. OK how? What did the people at Pulse have to do with his country?

 

[Dr. Know?]

18 U.S. Code § 4 - Misprision of felony

Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/4

 

[katydid23]

He is doing it for his country. OK how? What did the people at Pulse have to do with his country?

Interesting that he considers Afghanistan HIS COUNTRY and not the place where he was born. Kind of nullifies all of the arguments about him being an Amercan Born Citizen and all that.

 

[gregjrichards]

"Federal prosecutors have convened a grand jury to investigate the wife of the Orlando nightclub shooter, seeking to charge her as an accessory to 49 counts of murder and 53 counts of attempted murder as well as with failure to notify law enforcement about the pending terrorist attack and lying to federal agents, a federal law enforcement source confirmed Tuesday to FoxNews.com.

FBI agents have interviewed Omar Mateen's wife, Noor Salman, in the days since Sunday's massacre that killed 49 and wounded 53 more.

A federal law enforcement source additionally told Fox News that Salman knew of her husband's deadly plans and did nothing to stop him.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/1...visits-to-nightclub-attacked-reports-say.html

I hope they make the right decision and is charged and sentenced to the fullest extent of the law. Doing nothing is inexcusable.

How is this case being covered in the media in the U.S? Has there been much criticism of the FBI?

 

[barcode]

18 U.S. Code § 4 - Misprision of felony



https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/4

Not familiar with it but from what you quoted, seems like a fine could very well be in the works, hope they can come up with a better charge, at most up to three years.