FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #23

[Jazzmaster]

I caught that too.
Yes, I have a screen cap. And DaleJr posted at 11:08pm on Nov 17th that LE had been there and searched his entire house. Strange, tho, how in the interview they said LE did nothing until Michelle's mother filed a police report the following morning. It could be that LE stopped by the condo and said something like "mind if we look around?".
Jmo, perhaps Gayle and Brad just didn't know that LE had already gotten involved.

I can see how this could have played out. Without search warrants LE is quite limited in what actions they can perform absent evidence. I would imagine LE drove around the Carter Glen condos, maybe stopped by Dale's...rang the bell and asked for a quick look around as you suggested. Dale then went to FB and exaggerated what really happened...Most likely, Dale was trying to deflect his involvement from the get go using FB...play the sympathy card with family and friends.

If there were no signs of foul play there wasn't much else LE could do at that point. They couldn't rule out she just walked away or needed time to clear her head or whatever....As is the case sometimes... Then when Michelle did not show up the next morning AND they found her vehicle...then they probably started treating the case MUCH different....so Friday morning could be the point where investigators really started working the case.

 

[GrammaMaybe]

If there were no signs of foul play there wasn't much else LE could do at that point. They couldn't rule out she just walked away or needed time to clear her head or whatever....As is the case sometimes... Then when Michelle did not show up the next morning AND they found her vehicle...then they probably started treating the case MUCH different....so Friday morning could be the point where investigators really started working the case.

Cut, colored, pouffed by me

Spoiler alert: I'm convinced Little Dale caused Michelle's disappearance; if you're not, this post is likely to be a waste of your time.

IIRC, YS told MSM that when she finally reached Mama Dale, she had Baby Dale call her because LE was at the condo waiting to talk to him. I think they were waiting to talk to him because they had immediately pulled up his rap sheet when Yvonne called them. In reporting the disappearance, surely YS told them about TPC and Baby Dale's past history of violence.

In missing persons cases, as you know, some police departments have a policy of waiting 24-48 hrs for the missing adult to come home on his/her own. Going to talk to Little D that night signals to me that they were convinced that a felony was being, or had been, committed. Likely, they were hoping that they could prevent Michelle's murder.

None of us knows what information LE gleaned in the interval between being alerted to the fact that Little D was the last known person to see Michelle alive and meeting him at the condo. They had between 7:10 and 8:30 to snoop around Carter Glen. Based on personal experience, I believe it likely that the dumpsters in the condo were searched that night and the police could have retrieved evidence like Michelle's cross then. We just don't know, yet.

Just seeing the violence and death on Little D's rap sheet was enough for LE to know what, and with whom, they were dealing.

We know now:
1. Michelle arrived at Little Dale's in her sticker-festooned Hummer at 3:18
2. The naked Hummer left the complex more than an hour & 40 minutes later
3. Michelle had lost control of her iPhone & her life by 4:26
4. Little Dale was the last person to see her alive
5. Little Dale is a violent felon who many believe had his second wife murdered
6. LE believes him to be the perpetrator

On November 17th LE knew:
1. Michelle arrived alive at Dale's
2. Dale was the last known person to see her alive and claims she drove away from his home alive
3. Michelle's family, friends & employers believed her no-show was out of character
4. Michelle's family & friends believed her 4:26 text message was out of character
5. Little Dale has a record of violent felonies
6. Little Dale had made violent threats against Michelle
7. Little Dale was angry enough at Michelle to demand she go on a "humiliating" TV show

IMO LE believed Little Dale was responsible for Michelle's disappearance from the moment they saw his rap sheet.

I do NOT doubt that LE was responsible and thorough about eliminating all other possibilities. But even the public knows how much more likely a person is to be injured and/or killed by some one s/he knows than a stranger.

 

[Thor]

Cut, colored, pouffed by me

Spoiler alert: I'm convinced Little Dale caused Michelle's disappearance; if you're not, this post is likely to be a waste of your time.

IIRC, YS told MSM that when she finally reached Mama Dale, she had Baby Dale call her because LE was at the condo waiting to talk to him. I think they were waiting to talk to him because they had immediately pulled up his rap sheet when Yvonne called them. In reporting the disappearance, surely YS told them about TPC and Baby Dale's past history of violence.

In missing persons cases, as you know, some police departments have a policy of waiting 24-48 hrs for the missing adult to come home on his/her own. Going to talk to Little D that night signals to me that they were convinced that a felony was being, or had been, committed. Likely, they were hoping that they could prevent Michelle's murder.

None of us knows what information LE gleaned in the interval between being alerted to the fact that Little D was the last known person to see Michelle alive and meeting him at the condo. They had between 7:10 and 8:30 to snoop around Carter Glen. Based on personal experience, I believe it likely that the dumpsters in the condo were searched that night and the police could have retrieved evidence like Michelle's cross then. We just don't know, yet.

Just seeing the violence and death on Little D's rap sheet was enough for LE to know what, and with whom, they were dealing.

We know now:
1. Michelle arrived at Little Dale's in her sticker-festooned Hummer at 3:18
2. The naked Hummer left the complex more than an hour & 40 minutes later
3. Michelle had lost control of her iPhone & her life by 4:26
4. Little Dale was the last person to see her alive
5. Little Dale is a violent felon who many believe had his second wife murdered
6. LE believes him to be the perpetrator

On November 17th LE knew:
1. Michelle arrived alive at Dale's
2. Dale was the last known person to see her alive and claims she drove away from his home alive
3. Michelle's family, friends & employers believed her no-show was out of character
4. Michelle's family & friends believed her 4:26 text message was out of character
5. Little Dale has a record of violent felonies
6. Little Dale had made violent threats against Michelle
7. Little Dale was angry enough at Michelle to demand she go on a "humiliating" TV show

IMO LE believed Little Dale was responsible for Michelle's disappearance from the moment they saw his rap sheet.

I do NOT doubt that LE was responsible and thorough about eliminating all other possibilities. But even the public knows how much more likely a person is to be injured and/or killed by some one s/he knows than a stranger.

I cannot really separate opinions from facts here ... so where "we know" and "LE knows" are concerned" ...

We know now:

1. Michelle arrived at Little Dale's in her sticker-festooned Hummer at 3:18

Fact - True (although Michelle is not seen in the footage but just her vehicle)

2. The naked Hummer left the complex more than an hour & 40 minutes later

Fact - It is not known when the hummer left the complex, or whether or not it had the decals still attached.

IMO If both or one of the above were true Dale would have been arrested.

3. Michelle had lost control of her iPhone & her life by 4:26

Fact - It is not known when Michelle had lost control of her life.

4. Little Dale was the last person to see her alive

Fact - Dale is the last known person to have seen Michelle. If it could be proven that Dale was the last person to see Michelle alive it would then mean he had killed her (excluding suicide).


5. Little Dale is a violent felon who many believe had his second wife murdered

Fact - Dale is a convicted felon but there are no opinion polls suggesting many believe he had his ex-wife murdered, although many could be subjective here and may refer to a particular group of people. Furthermore the incident in question happened while he was incarcerated and the ex-wife death has been ruled an accident by the authorities.

6. LE believes him to be the perpetrator

Fact - LE has named Dale a suspect in Michelle's disappearance, they have never indicated they believe him to be the perpetrator either in terms of evidence or in terms of personal convictions.

On November 17th LE knew:

1. Michelle arrived alive at Dale's

Fact - True or universally believed to be the case although only the Hummer is recorded by the surveillance to arrive at Dale's (as far as I know)

2. Dale was the last known person to see her alive and claims she drove away from his home alive

Fact - Again, Dale is the last known person to see Michele alive.

3. Michelle's family, friends & employers believed her no-show was out of character

Fact - True

4. Michelle's family & friends believed her 4:26 text message was out of character

Fact - True

5. Little Dale has a record of violent felonies

Fact - True,

IMO Although not very egregious felonies and certainly not to the level of murder.

6. Little Dale had made violent threats against Michelle

Fact - No threats have been established, although Michelle sought a restraining order alleging threats by Dale which was later dismissed in court because of lack of evidence.

7. Little Dale was angry enough at Michelle to demand she go on a "humiliating" TV show

Fact - There are no allegations that Dale forced Michelle to go on the PC episode.

 

[GrammaMaybe]

From Thor:

Ok Jazz, you keep on using the word "fact" but when asked you could not give me on single piece of direct evidence that ties DS to Michelle disappearance, and how could you? There's is none that we know of factually. And what about circumstantial evidence? The only one that we know of factually is Dale being the last known person to have seen Michelle alive. The rest is just hearsay, and some not even of the confirmed kind, I mean, even some hearsay is not confirmed and are of the third or fourth removed kind if not totally taken out of an hat just because everything is possible. Now, in truth that is not to say the the Police don't have some evidence, probably of the highly circumstantial kind if at all, I would guess, if that fact that they haven't charged him is not an indication of that and as they said, a little according to them, but that is a long way from establishing guilt. What you mean here Jazz, is that you are of the opinion that he's guilty, that your are o the opinion that he lied about stuff and that is what you believe, and where beliefs are the issue who can then argue with them? It's just so that it happens that I like to mix in the facts when talking opinions, and when the opinions are all said and done, the facts/evidence are the only arbiter of it all, and that is why Dale is free today (yet another fact), and that is so notwithstanding my opinions and that of others. Although in the end I'm clearly glad you're along for the ride (as you put it) as well. JMO excluding what otherwise noted as facts.


Colored & pouffed by me.

MOO MOO MOO

Spoiler alert: If you don't believe Little Dale is guilty, reading this is probably a waste of your time.

Based on the rules of this forum every piece of evidence we are supposed to reference, based on TOS, is "hearsay."

MSM says "police report that..." = hearsay
Local witness says at Carter Glen meeting "police officer said that..." = hearsay
Family member tells MSM that "Little Dale told me..." = hearsay
Surveillance camera owner "tells reporter..." = hearsay

Clearly, under these circumstances, it's easy to discount every piece of evidence as "hearsay," in which case we have nothing to discuss on this forum. I certainly could be wrong here, but isn't the purpose of this forum to get people together to exchange their opinions and extrapolations in order to further the investigation and bring to justice the person/persons who committed the crime?

See how sticky this gets? You can't prove that the locals who say the police said the Hummer left the Carter Glen complex without the Glow sticker are lying, any more than I can prove they aren't. So we can each discredit evidence, and will likely do so, based on our motives and goals. Having spent so much time with batterers and their victims, I'm inclined to believe Dale did it. You for some reason are motivated to believe and prove that Dale didn't do it. (I am interested in the reasons you feel you must defend Dale, since this is only a forum and not a courtroom, and hope you decide to share them with us.)

One of my basic tenets is that only God has Truth with a capital "T;" the rest of us only have what little information we can see from our own perch on this earth, which is, of course, determined by our histories and prejudices. Your truth is most likely not mine and we are likely to both be right--but probably not about the same facets.

I am convinced (I think "convinced" means this is an opinion) based on the facts I believe are valid:

1. Michelle arrived at Dale's Carter Glen Condo at 3:18 ALIVE in her Glow-stickered Hummer
2. The Hummer left Carter Glen more than an hour & 40 minutes later without the sticker
QED someone in Carter Glen removed the Glow sticker.
3. Dale planned his attack on Michelle, including where he would bury her and prepared with materials
4. Although Dale may have had help, he had plenty of time to do all this himself
5. Michelle had lost control of her iPhone & her life by 4:26 and did not write the "Waterford" text

Please notice that the iPhone was cruising along Hofner when "Waterford" was texted at 4:26 and the Hummer had not yet left the Carter Glen complex at that time.

Also, I've come up with two time lines showing how Dale could have done this, so if your interested in seeing my thinking, check out some of my old posts.

BTW, since I doubt I have been hallucinating, I'm going to assume that whatever I saw leaving the Rose Boulevard residence and the Carter Glen condo in boxes with the police was physical evidence. Dust with particles of Glow sticker residue is physical evidence and not "circumstantial," unless you can come up with proof for a reason for it to be in Dale's garage other than him removing the Glow sticker.

 

[BritsKate]

Isn't naming someone a suspect (which LE does more and more rarely these days) indicative of believing they have indeed perpetrated a crime? :waitasec:

Suspect:
a person who is suspected, especially one suspected of a crime, offense, or the like.

Perpetrator:
a person who perpetrates, or commits, an illegal, criminal, or evil act.

http://dictionary.reference.com/

 

[Cblewife]

"Why do you feel so strongly that you must defend Dale?"

Why are you asking me the reasons why I defend Dale? I do suspect he's really nothing to do width Michelle disappearance and I have seen no evidence that he has, but for what I know he might very well be responsible after all. Why isn't the question why do you feel so strongly about accusing Dale, or to be precise that Dale is actually guilty in your opinion? Is it the default position that one must believe that Dale is guilty? I'm not sure I understand your point here.

Snipped by me - I believe it's a valid question on why you feel so strongly in defending Dale. If in fact it's nothing more than your opinion that someone else is guilty, then offer up another whodunit. I think we've been down this road before. It's not a defend Dale board, it's a what happened to Michelle board. If you don't believe Dale is responsible for Michelle's disappearance, then PLEASE give us another theory. A theory - not a pick a part what someone else has said down to every little word and it's meaning statement - an actual theory of who, how and when it occurred. Something that's works within the timeline, something that works with knowing through Michelle's family and friends who SHE was.... just something besides your wrong Dale didn't do it because he hasn't been arrested.

 

[Thor]

Apologies Thor, as I truly don't remember reading it. Honestly, sometimes I do skip over the banter between you and a couple others because it's just the same thing and it gets old. Possibly it was during one of "those" days and I simply missed it.

I think you will find that the majority of my posts refer to the "who" as the perp. I do throw Dales name in there as well, as I do believe he is the one who is responsible for Michelle no longer being with her family and the obvious TONS of friends she has. I've come to my conclusion based on the information I've read and the video's I've watched. I don't think it's my place to convict him nor defend him. I do however believe that since LE has named him their prime suspect and only suspect, then that is the logical starting point of a whodunit, which should not be confused as to how it was done.

I certainly didn't say you were or anyone was not entitled to their own opinion. I just wanted to know why you felt the need to defend him. Dale still has has a voice and can defend himself. IMO, Michelle does not have.

Cblewife, no need for you to apologize for anything, we're all friends of sort here if for no other reasons that we all share a need to post here and are concerned for Michelle. Nothing personal here at all for me and I do appreciate your willingness to engage me notwithstanding agreements or disagreements.

 

[What'sThatClue]

Snipped by me - I believe it's a valid question on why you feel so strongly in defending Dale. If in fact it's nothing more than your opinion that someone else is guilty, then offer up another whodunit. I think we've been down this road before. It's not a defend Dale board, it's a what happened to Michelle board. If you don't believe Dale is responsible for Michelle's disappearance, then PLEASE give us another theory. A theory - not a pick a part what someone else has said down to every little word and it's meaning statement - an actual theory of who, how and when it occurred. Something that's works within the timeline, something that works with knowing through Michelle's family and friends who SHE was.... just something besides your wrong Dale didn't do it because he hasn't been arrested.

The thank you button was not enough.

Yes, this is not a Defend Dale forum but rather a 'what happened to Michelle' forum. And since Dale has been named the Prime Suspect we can sleuth him and only him (according to TOS and Mods who have intervened on this forum before) unless we offer up alternate scenarios based on facts we have been given. The timeline is important, the cameras are important, the phone and it's location are important, the pings are important...I could go on and on. But to simply defend Dale without coming up with different scenarios that might work within the timeline and information we've got is simply doing Michelle a great injustice. Who knows, there may have been someone else involved....but Dale is the Prime Suspect and he has been named such for a reason unknown to us at this time. Dale needs no help with a defense...he has an attorney for that, if charges are filed. Michelle and her family and loved ones are the ones who needs help, badly.
Thank you again.

It's all about Michelle in the end....what happened and where is she???

All JMO

 

[Pias]

You can lose control of your life, and still be alive. <modsnip>

 

[Pias]

IF Dale were the last person to see her alive, even if she committed suicide, then he would still be guilty cuz the Hummer was at Walden and it would mean he has knowledge of what happened to Michelle (given your selections) and is not telling what he knows.

On the other hand, to say that no one saw Michelle at Walden, if she was there, would not necessarily be true. If I see someone walking down the road, but I do not know them, does that mean they were not there? A person could dump off their vehicle and to live off the land, couldn't they? The fact is, likely someone DID see something, they just didn't know they were witnessing part of a crime at the time and they do not recall what they saw because it didn't mean anything to them. Obviously, the vehicle traveled from point A to point B at the very least. Unless there were nobody on the road at the time, and no one was looking out their window, then we cannot say nobody saw anything. It wouldn't be true. The actual FACT would be that people DID see something, but they did not know it.

 

[Cblewife]

I'd like to add one more Pias. To say there is no evidence simply because it has not been given to us OR possibly not even been found yet, does not mean there is no evidence.

 

[Thor]

You can lose control of your life, and still be alive. <modsnip>

Pias, the issue there was not about that one can lose control of one's life, and still be alive ... (don't know where that comes from) it was this statement by Grammamaybe

Michelle had lost control of her iPhone & her life by 4:26


Again, we don't know it as a fact that Michelle lost control of her life by 4:26, now do we?

 

[Cblewife]

Pias the issue there was not about that one can lose control of one's life, and still be alive ... (don't know where that comes from) it was this statement by Grammamaybe

Michelle had lost control of her iPhone & her life by 4:26


Again, we don't know it as a fact that Michelle lost control of her life by 4:26, now do we?

I would agree partially with that statement. I believe she was no longer in control of her phone, but still possibly could have been alive, but not in control of her life.

 

[nursebeeme]

bumping up the warning from beach... that seems to have been going unheeded lately:

MOD WARNING!

What the heck am I reading on here?!?

MICHELLE PARKER IS THE VICTIM!!!

NOT Dale Smith, Jr. OR Dale Smith, Sr. If you've got some PLAUSIBLE scenario with some sort of FACTUAL BASIS, then that is one thing. But NO ONE gets to trash a victim OR the victim's family here. NO ONE.

This is a VICTIM FRIENDLY FORUM and I am reading all kind of UNFOUNDED insinuations that are based on NOTHING FACTUAL IN THE LEAST.

Knock it off now!

I am furious at some of the talk on this thread. Issuing Time Outs.

 

[Cblewife]

I have never said that there are no evidence "... simply because it has not been given to us OR possibly not even been found yet". Sometime ago I said that there are no direct evidence that we know of (whatever the reason) that being a fact and that I tend to believe Dale's attorney that the police have no evidence against him but that he's solely a suspect because he fits the profile, that being just an opinion.

That wasn't directed at you personally Thor. That was a general statement for all of those, albeit not many, that have said or still say there is no evidence.

 

[Pias]

I would agree partially with that statement. I believe she was no longer in control of her phone, but still possibly could have been alive, but not in control of her life.

Agreed. If she was not in control of answering her own phone, then how in control of her life could she have been at the time?

 

[Pias]

When I supposed Michelle being at Walden above, I wasn't suggesting I thought Michelle ever made it there. It was just an example used to move the Hummer from one point to another. I doubt seriously that Michelle was ever there, although I cannot be sure because we currently do not use satellite technology for crime solving. If we actually need to see a crime being committed, then maybe it is about time we started using one.

Stop the madness. Pass it on.
http://www.change.org/petitions/pet...sting-military-technology-we-the-people-speak

 

[Thor]

That wasn't directed at you personally Thor. That was a general statement for all of those, albeit not many, that have said or still say there is no evidence.

You're right of course, I just did not pay enough attention there.

 

[beach]

Locking while I review this thread.

I am FED UP with the arguing.

WHERE IS MICHELLE???????? Is anyone even trying to find her anymore?

 

[beach]

I'm gonna leave this locked for a while. During that time, I ask that everyone step back and regroup.

Think about the purpose of this thread.

It is horrible enough that Michelle has yet to be found and now it appears she has become lost here too. After reviewing, my anger turned to profound sadness. It breaks my heart to see this. It is a disservice to Michelle and I am not going to permit her to be treated with such disrepect any longer.

Sometimes when posters frequent a thread continuously, they get caught up in the minutae and lose sight of what is really important. I could easily TO a few folks here for quite a long time for the personal bickering that has ZERO to do with finding Michelle. However, I've mod'd long enough to understand how this stuff snowballs and derails into the ditches. I know this case and most of the regulars on this thread to know that you do truly care about finding Michelle and finding justice. Out of respect for you guys, I'm opting to leave the thread locked for a while to give people time to reconsider the purpose of this thread.

Please spend the next few hours thinking about how you can truly help find Michelle. When I re-open it, I will be able to tell who honored my request by the posts. I am begging you guys to do the right thing by Michelle.