FL - Newborn male found in bag thrown in dumpster, Lakeland, 11 May 2023

[EmiliaRT007]

It said in the article that she didn't go to the hospital because of her immigration status and lack of money to pay for treatment.

Despite that, she came forward when the story hit the news.

How many times on this site do we hear of a child disposed of in a bin or a suitcase and hope that it was just a natural death, that the family were maybe undocumented and just scared to come forward? I've seen it on multiple threads, and I can't think of a single one where that turned out to be the case - they were pretty much all cases of child abuse resulting in death.

This looks, to all accounts, to be that case.

She was scared, not just for herself but for her family, she didn't know she was pregnant, the baby died through no fault of her own. She felt she couldn't report the death because she was afraid of deportation.

And when they went public with the story, she came forward anyway. I'm guessing because she was grieving, regretful, and knew it was the right thing to do, despite the consequences. I can't imagine the courage that took.

We can hate that a baby ended up in a bin - it always makes me upset, regardless of the circumstances - but I can understand how this child ended up there. I can't understand people murdering their babies, putting them in the garbage alive, or leaving them to die of exposure. That didn't happen here.

The Safe Haven laws wouldn't have helped in this circumstance; the baby never drew breath. I can hate that a child ended up in a bin, but at the same time, I'm trying to put myself in her shoes and think, what would I do in her circumstances? And to be honest? I don't know.

I can grieve the little life that never was, but I can also grieve that this woman and her family's lives are irrevocably changed from this point. She didn't kill him. She just didn't have any options that didn't expose her and threaten the life that she's built for herself. And that's the tragedy. If there was a way for her to report this death without risking deportation, I think she would have.

MOO

Right. I’m not saying the mom is a bad person who threw her son away like trash, in fact quite the opposite. I’m sure if he was alive she would have dropped him off at a safe haven if she couldn’t take care of him. I agree that throwing a baby away like trash is wrong, yes. That’s common sense.

However I should have read a bit more into it. This woman couldn’t go to the hospital to give birth because of her immigration status and because of her financial situation (American healthcare is way too expensive…).

And I’m sure she really did care about her baby. It may have taken her the whole pregnancy to find out she was pregnant but once she found out she really did want the best for her baby boy, I’m sure. Of course I’m upset that he ended up in the dumpster. I’m sure anyone who has a heart is.

However I feel equally sorry for his poor mother. I’m also trying to put myself in her shoes. And honestly, if I saw my baby come out with a brain deformity, yes, I would be devastated. What would I do? I don’t know honestly. But to have him be stillborn too? Oh, man! I would be so sad. Having to say goodbye when I just said hello. My aunt was stillborn at 38 weeks, my grandmother waited that whole pregnancy just for her to come out without any signs of life. My dad cries just talking about seeing her in her little baby size casket at her funeral. I couldn’t imagine the pain. He still misses her after 40-odd years. It’s really very sad.

I sympathize with both. As much as I can grieve for the little baby, the life that never was, he’s gone, and that’s the sad truth. I can also grieve for this woman. I’m sure that she didn’t want to throw him away. At all! That’s her son! Anyone with a heart wouldn’t throw away their son. That was probably a very hard decision for her. It sucks that because of her immigration status she is worried about being deported just for caring enough about her son as to give him a proper burial. Really a super sad case that pulls at my heartstrings.

 

[MissMalowe]

Hospitals are considered "sensitive locations" in regards to immigration status.
Health Care Providers and Immigration Enforcement: Know Your and Your Patients’ Rights

The memoranda say that immigration enforcement actions are to be avoided at sensitive locations, including at hospitals and other health care facilities, unless exigent circumstances exist or the officers conducting the actions have prior approval from certain officials within the enforcement agencies.

There are also many American citizens who don't have healthcare or are unable to afford their high deductibles/out of pocket maximums and also struggle or can't afford burials/cremation when a family member passes away. Anyone throwing any deceased person away in a trash bin is not only unacceptable, but I would argue that it's also beyond disrespectful & lacking compassion for human life, especially when that human belonged to you.

The fact that 3 other people went along with her to dispose of the baby like trash is so disturbing to me. (not bury him, drop him off at a safe haven or even drop him off infront of a funeral home or coroner's office or even a cementary) As I mentioned before, it looked like a small child accompanying the adult woman in the 3rd photo, was it necessary to bring a child along to this? What did they see or understand of the situation? My heart goes out to that baby boy and the other *possible* child who was with them.

Realize I'm probably the cheese that stands alone in terms of where my sympathy lies, but I'm OK with that. Although my feelings on the matter differ, I respect and even understand those who have a lot of sympathy for mom too.

RIP sweet baby boy.

 

[iamshadow21]

Hospitals are considered "sensitive locations" in regards to immigration status.
Health Care Providers and Immigration Enforcement: Know Your and Your Patients’ Rights

There are also many American citizens who don't have healthcare or are unable to afford their high deductibles/out of pocket maximums and also struggle or can't afford burials/cremation when a family member passes away. Anyone throwing any deceased person away in a trash bin is not only unacceptable, but I would argue that it's also beyond disrespectful & lacking compassion for human life, especially when that human belonged to you.

The fact that 3 other people went along with her to dispose of the baby like trash is so disturbing to me. (not bury him, drop him off at a safe haven or even drop him off infront of a funeral home or coroner's office or even a cementary) As I mentioned before, it looked like a small child accompanying the adult woman in the 3rd photo, was it necessary to bring a child along to this? What did they see or understand of the situation? My heart goes out to that baby boy and the other *possible* child who was with them.

Realize I'm probably the cheese that stands alone in terms of where my sympathy lies, but I'm OK with that. Although my feelings on the matter differ, I respect and even understand those who have a lot of sympathy for mom too.

RIP sweet baby boy.

I think anyone who turned up with a dead newborn in their arms at a hospital would be at very real risk of the cops being called on them because of suspicion it might be a homicide. We know the baby had a profound brain abnormality incompatible with life, but we didn't know that or that he never drew breath until after the autopsy, which means his skull wasn't obviously deformed, say, concave or bulging or asymmetrical. He looked, when found, as though he could have been born alive and healthy.

I don't think anyone thinks any human being should be disposed of like garbage. It hurts me every time we see another case; it feels like every week there's a new one. But unlike most of those cases that I can think of, this little one died of natural causes, and his mother came forward almost immediately. That they've charged her with the misdemeanor and nothing else is telling. It means they believe her. She is responsible for her actions, but I don't see this case as anything but sad. There are no monsters, just victims, and hard choices that make us ponder the nature of morality. There should have been somewhere this woman knew she could go where she could have got help and support and her son could have been treated with dignity in death without the threat of ICE hanging over them. If that was the case, I don't think we would have ever heard of them at all, because he would never have ended up in that dumpster.

MOO

 

[Stunned]

I think anyone who turned up with a dead newborn in their arms at a hospital would be at very real risk of the cops being called on them because of suspicion it might be a homicide. We know the baby had a profound brain abnormality incompatible with life, but we didn't know that or that he never drew breath until after the autopsy, which means his skull wasn't obviously deformed, say, concave or bulging or asymmetrical. He looked, when found, as though he could have been born alive and healthy.

I don't think anyone thinks any human being should be disposed of like garbage. It hurts me every time we see another case; it feels like every week there's a new one. But unlike most of those cases that I can think of, this little one died of natural causes, and his mother came forward almost immediately. That they've charged her with the misdemeanor and nothing else is telling. It means they believe her. She is responsible for her actions, but I don't see this case as anything but sad. There are no monsters, just victims, and hard choices that make us ponder the nature of morality. There should have been somewhere this woman knew she could go where she could have got help and support and her son could have been treated with dignity in death without the threat of ICE hanging over them. If that was the case, I don't think we would have ever heard of them at all, because he would never have ended up in that dumpster.

MOO

Your last two sentences says it all. Blessings on all involved. IMO

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I'm surprised at the choice made in this case, because she had a conscience and came forward.

There's another case on here of a newborn found in a lake with angel figurines; I've always thought that was a similar situation (but better than a dumpster).

 

[LaineyJ]

I saw in an article upthread that DHS was also notified. I’m thinking there will be an ICE detainer put on her at some point, then. Which makes me sad because she came forward when she didn’t have to. Yes it would be a crappy thing to do, not coming forward. But what are the chances her/her family’s DNA is in some genealogical database? Not everyone uses those. So imo she could’ve kept this secret and possibly gotten away with it. But I think her conscious pushed her to come forward.

Throwing him in the dumpster is awful. I don’t think anyone here will argue that. I also don’t think she should be given a pass just because of her circumstances. But I do sympathize with her with the current information that we have. We should remember that immigrants likely don’t know about safe haven laws, or other random laws that most US-born citizens don’t! I’ve seen articles discussing the use or non-use of the safe havens and have seen so many people say they had no idea it was a thing. Which in itself is sad, it should be more well-known.

I feel very sad that this baby was never meant to live this life. I think putting him in the dumpster was a terrible and imo disgusting decision. I can’t imagine anyone doing that, though we know it happens.

I also can’t imagine being in this mother’s circumstances and for that I consider myself lucky. I hope this baby boy gets a proper burial that he deserves. Very sad all around.

 

[iamshadow21]

I saw in an article upthread that DHS was also notified. I’m thinking there will be an ICE detainer put on her at some point, then. Which makes me sad because she came forward when she didn’t have to. Yes it would be a crappy thing to do, not coming forward. But what are the chances her/her family’s DNA is in some genealogical database? Not everyone uses those. So imo she could’ve kept this secret and possibly gotten away with it. But I think her conscious pushed her to come forward.

Throwing him in the dumpster is awful. I don’t think anyone here will argue that. I also don’t think she should be given a pass just because of her circumstances. But I do sympathize with her with the current information that we have. We should remember that immigrants likely don’t know about safe haven laws, or other random laws that most US-born citizens don’t! I’ve seen articles discussing the use or non-use of the safe havens and have seen so many people say they had no idea it was a thing. Which in itself is sad, it should be more well-known.

I feel very sad that this baby was never meant to live this life. I think putting him in the dumpster was a terrible and imo disgusting decision. I can’t imagine anyone doing that, though we know it happens.

I also can’t imagine being in this mother’s circumstances and for that I consider myself lucky. I hope this baby boy gets a proper burial that he deserves. Very sad all around.

And the Safe Haven laws I don't think would have helped in this case, because this little boy was born dead, never breathed. They would have looked for her because he was dead, not living. For two days or so they investigated it as a potential homicide, until the autopsy definitively proved his brain condition was incompatible with life. I know the circumstances of where he was found were suggestive that it could be foul play, but I think if they found this child anywhere, even in one of those warm boxes they've installed places, the protocol would be very different from the standard procedure they'd follow if he was a live baby, kicking and crying. It would have to be.

MOO

 

[EmiliaRT007]

And the Safe Haven laws I don't think would have helped in this case, because this little boy was born dead, never breathed. They would have looked for her because he was dead, not living. For two days or so they investigated it as a potential homicide, until the autopsy definitively proved his brain condition was incompatible with life. I know the circumstances of where he was found were suggestive that it could be foul play, but I think if they found this child anywhere, even in one of those warm boxes they've installed places, the protocol would be very different from the standard procedure they'd follow if he was a live baby, kicking and crying. It would have to be.

MOO

I’m sure. I’ve never seen what they so with babies in warm boxes that are DOA. Never heard about it.

 

[iamshadow21]

I’m sure. I’ve never seen what they so with babies in warm boxes that are DOA. Never heard about it.

I don't think it's happened yet. They're a new initiative, I know the couple of times the ones they have (in Florida, I think? Could be wrong on the state) have been used since they were installed, it's been the cause of a celebratory thread here on WS.

A baby's not going to die of exposure in the warm box, that's the point of them, but I think it's only a matter of time before an infant is placed in one who is dead or near death. Birth is a traumatic event, and even under the best of circumstances, babies can be injured during birth or can be born, as this little one was, with something terribly wrong that, if survivable, needs immediate care. I just hope the people watching over the boxes have support and are prepared for that possibility.

MOO

 

[EmiliaRT007]

I don't think it's happened yet. They're a new initiative, I know the couple of times the ones they have (in Florida, I think? Could be wrong on the state) have been used since they were installed, it's been the cause of a celebratory thread here on WS.

A baby's not going to die of exposure in the warm box, that's the point of them, but I think it's only a matter of time before an infant is placed in one who is dead or near death. Birth is a traumatic event, and even under the best of circumstances, babies can be injured during birth or can be born, as this little one was, with something terribly wrong that, if survivable, needs immediate care. I just hope the people watching over the boxes have support and are prepared for that possibility.

MOO

Right then. I have heard of this law a few times. I have heard it discussed in many cases of newborns found just out in the open whether it be alive or dead. Even in the case someone dropped off a girl who looked about 18 months old IMO, dropping her off there because the mom herself was in danger IIRC and didn’t want her daughter to get hurt. People mentioned that she should be allowed to still put her daughter even at her age in a safe haven.

I very much am in support of it. Of course in this case what the mom did is wrong but there’s not much she could do with him. Since he was stillborn he couldn’t be dropped off at one of the safe havens since they can’t do anything with him other than report him to authorities and call in the ME.

 

[iamshadow21]

Right then. I have heard of this law a few times. I have heard it discussed in many cases of newborns found just out in the open whether it be alive or dead. Even in the case someone dropped off a girl who looked about 18 months old IMO, dropping her off there because the mom herself was in danger IIRC and didn’t want her daughter to get hurt. People mentioned that she should be allowed to still put her daughter even at her age in a safe haven.

I very much am in support of it. Of course in this case what the mom did is wrong but there’s not much she could do with him. Since he was stillborn he couldn’t be dropped off at one of the safe havens since they can’t do anything with him other than report him to authorities and call in the ME.

The Safe Haven laws cover places like hospitals, fire stations, stores... basically places that are warm, sheltered and staffed so that they baby can be found and cared for as soon as possible. I think different places have different laws for how old the child left can be. Most would be infants under a few weeks old, I imagine, but not all.

The warm boxes are purpose built, like a little incubator, that has a sensor in it to detect weight. The parent can deposit the child and walk away, and the people inside the building can be opening their side within a minute to take the baby. They're only in a few places at this stage. They are already saving lives. They're designed for newborns up to a week old, I think? They're specifically created to try and prevent babies dying of exposure when, for whatever reason, the parent can't or doesn't want to keep the infant.

I think both the Safe Haven laws and the warm boxes are vital to save lives. There needs to be some way for these infants to be left safely in the care of strangers while the parent walks away. Some of these parents are going to be teens, rape victims, domestic violence victims, people in crushing poverty, or people who know that they cannot give the child what they need to grow up happy and safe. By making safe surrender possible without consequences, those children get a chance to live.

I wish this little one had had a chance to live, but that was never to be, even if everything had happened under the best of circumstances. In all likelihood, if the mother had had proper medical care, a scan would have revealed his condition at some point before delivery. And I honestly don't know if that would have been better or worse for her than an unexpected labour and delivery of a dead child. It would have been devastating in its own way.

MOO

 

[MissMalowe]

I think anyone who turned up with a dead newborn in their arms at a hospital would be at very real risk of the cops being called on them because of suspicion it might be a homicide. We know the baby had a profound brain abnormality incompatible with life, but we didn't know that or that he never drew breath until after the autopsy, which means his skull wasn't obviously deformed, say, concave or bulging or asymmetrical. He looked, when found, as though he could have been born alive and healthy.

I don't believe we know that? Nothing has been reported (to include by the gentleman who found him in the dumpster) about how the baby looked. Waiting until an autopsy to be performed to determine whether or not he was born alive & breathing or was stillborn is normal and isn't suggestive or dependent of this full-term baby's appearance being normal or abnormal.

If your assumption is correct, "that he looked absolutely normal and could have been born alive and healthy", that would further support the idea that mom didnt observe any visible signs of a brain deformity and should have called an ambulance or headed to the hospital in an attempt to save him.

His cord was still attached and he wasn't even reportedly wrapped in a blanket or towel, just thrown in a bag and tossed into a dumpster, and then her and at least 3 others went shopping at a nearby store.

 

[iamshadow21]

I don't believe we know that? Nothing has been reported (to include by the gentleman who found him in the dumpster) about how the baby looked. Waiting until an autopsy to be performed to determine whether or not he was born alive & breathing or was stillborn is normal and isn't suggestive or dependent of this full-term baby's appearance being normal or abnormal.

If your assumption is correct, "that he looked absolutely normal and could have been born alive and healthy", that would further support the idea that mom didnt observe any visible signs of a brain malformity and SHOULD have called an ambulance or headed to the hospital in an attempt to save him.....

It was in this article:

Lakeland Police Seek Four 'Persons of Interest' in Death of Newborn Found in Dumpster - LkldNow

Taylor said investigators won’t know if the baby was stillborn or suffocated in the bag until after the medical examiner completes an autopsy, however, all indications suggest the baby had been a viable fetus.

That was before the autopsy, obviously.

And for all we know, she did CPR on the baby without success, or, he died in utero and showed clear signs of that at birth, like skin slippage. We just don't know.

MOO

 

[MissMalowe]

It was in this article:

Lakeland Police Seek Four 'Persons of Interest' in Death of Newborn Found in Dumpster - LkldNow

Taylor said investigators won’t know if the baby was stillborn or suffocated in the bag until after the medical examiner completes an autopsy, however, all indications suggest the baby had been a viable fetus.

That was before the autopsy, obviously.

And for all we know, she did CPR on the baby without success, or, he died in utero and showed clear signs of that at birth, like skin slippage. We just don't know.

MOO

Again, it's a bit of a contradiction though, if "all indications were that it had been a viable fetus," that doesn't suggest she observed "clear signs of death in utero like skin slippage" or a visible brain deformity which makes her inaction immediately following the birth even worse....imo

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Terrible there's obviously more to the story but whatever it is that got them to this point is just awful.

Any ideas on what kind of place they're in on CCTV? Looks like the inside of a public building of some sort but I can't narrow it down any further than that. Does it look familiar to anyone?

MOO

To me, it looks like a Walmart or similar big box store.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

It was in this article:

Lakeland Police Seek Four 'Persons of Interest' in Death of Newborn Found in Dumpster - LkldNow

Taylor said investigators won’t know if the baby was stillborn or suffocated in the bag until after the medical examiner completes an autopsy, however, all indications suggest the baby had been a viable fetus.

That was before the autopsy, obviously.

And for all we know, she did CPR on the baby without success, or, he died in utero and showed clear signs of that at birth, like skin slippage. We just don't know.

MOO

Even if the baby was born stillborn, that's no way to handle the child's death and remains. He deserved so much better!

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Hospitals are considered "sensitive locations" in regards to immigration status.
Health Care Providers and Immigration Enforcement: Know Your and Your Patients’ Rights

There are also many American citizens who don't have healthcare or are unable to afford their high deductibles/out of pocket maximums and also struggle or can't afford burials/cremation when a family member passes away. Anyone throwing any deceased person away in a trash bin is not only unacceptable, but I would argue that it's also beyond disrespectful & lacking compassion for human life, especially when that human belonged to you.

The fact that 3 other people went along with her to dispose of the baby like trash is so disturbing to me. (not bury him, drop him off at a safe haven or even drop him off infront of a funeral home or coroner's office or even a cementary) As I mentioned before, it looked like a small child accompanying the adult woman in the 3rd photo, was it necessary to bring a child along to this? What did they see or understand of the situation? My heart goes out to that baby boy and the other *possible* child who was with them.

Realize I'm probably the cheese that stands alone in terms of where my sympathy lies, but I'm OK with that. Although my feelings on the matter differ, I respect and even understand those who have a lot of sympathy for mom too.

RIP sweet baby boy.

No, you don't stand alone. I'm right there beside you. When homeless American vets are being kicked out of shelters to accommodate illegal immigrants, give me a break! How afraid could she be, really?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Preliminary findings from the medical examiner’s office said the infant was full-term and the results do not indicate homicide or foul play caused by the infant’s death. The report said the baby had a severe brain deformity and never took a breath.

The woman admitted giving birth alone outside her home during the early morning hours of May 10. She told detectives that she was unaware she was pregnant before giving birth and that she only had minor symptoms and believed she was just getting sick.

The woman said she did not go to the hospital afterward because she was in the country illegally and didn’t want to get in trouble. She also said she didn’t have money to pay the medical expenses.

The woman was later charged with storage, preservation and transportation of human remains, the police department said.

Lakeland police said DNA was collected from the woman to compare with the deceased infant’s.

The Department of Homeland Security was contacted regarding the woman’s immigration status, police said.

Woman charged after baby found dead in Lakeland dumpster

The Lakeland Police Department said the baby found in a dumpster last week had a severe brain deformity and never took a breath.

www.wfla.com

 

[Jsizzle]

If the story is true, about the baby being stillborn and with a severe brain deformity along with her being here illegally and not knowing she was pregnant, I can understand why she wouldn’t go to a hospital. HOWEVER, why a dumpster? Why a plastic bag? Why not bury the baby in your back yard?! Nobody would know! My daughters beta fish died and we held a funeral and burial for Gods sake! MOO

 

[Soulmagent]

Right then. I have heard of this law a few times. I have heard it discussed in many cases of newborns found just out in the open whether it be alive or dead. Even in the case someone dropped off a girl who looked about 18 months old IMO, dropping her off there because the mom herself was in danger IIRC and didn’t want her daughter to get hurt. People mentioned that she should be allowed to still put her daughter even at her age in a safe haven.

I very much am in support of it. Of course in this case what the mom did is wrong but there’s not much she could do with him. Since he was stillborn he couldn’t be dropped off at one of the safe havens since they can’t do anything with him other than report him to authorities and call in the ME.

I kinda feel that it even be okay to even drop grandma off ,if she was in danger.
Anyway maybe they should let people know they can place still borns there as well? They need to stop making issues over the reason why people use the warm box before they ruin the trust and more babies get left around outside.
The warm box thing is like offering a baby options when mom has none. However it was not really an option for this baby at all. I am sure the mom was terrified . She has other kids at home . I really think she did what she though was best and She did submit her self to LE and take responsibility ,so she might not have known it was not legal to do that? I do not know where mom is from but not everywhere is 1st world which matters when judging other peoples motivations . Anyway they have to charge her but I hope she just gets a fine and some medical care for herself . Also maybe they can get the baby a little plot. My nephew and his wife lost a baby boy at 6 months due to his brain being undeveloped , they induced her labor after the baby had passed. They were devastated.