GUILTY FL - Seath Jackson, 1, brutally murdered, Summerfield, 17 April 2011

[mysteriew]

http://www.wftv.com/news/27624035/detail.html

Apr. 21, 2011 12:17pm EST

Allegation of a previous fight between Bargo and Seath. Police were called, but sounds like no arrest.

Sounds like when he went to court Bargo had quite a few bruises on him, most comments alleging that it was either from previous fight or from the night of the murder.

 

[Paintr]

You know what. I understand all the arguments about the social electronic networks, absent parents, mob mentality ....but I don't buy it. You can learn a great deal of good from the WWW if one choses to. There are good lessons in print, in movies, learned from teachers and other adults and role models besides your parents, if you chose to learn them.

What these kids did was sick, violent, sadistic, and twisted. They made terrible choices. But they did have choices. They could have chosen to stop. They didn't. They tortured and killed someone. Now they must pay for that.

 

[Reannan]

This case reminds me of the one years back where the group of teens lured the one they claimed was a bully out to kill him one night. There was a movie made about it but I can't for the life of me recall the name of the victim or where it occurred. It was back in the eighties if I recall.

Once again, mob rule, mob mentality. No one is personally accountable if they are just following the crowd. This thought processes frightens the hell outta me as we are seeing it more and more every day.

TL, this reminds me of the Shanda Sharer case. She was brutally tortured, beaten, put in the trunk of a car and then burned alive by some other girls that were her peers. I will never forget Shanda's story. Why do human's do these things to each other??? Why am I still asking that question..... Never mind - there is no answer except the fact that evil is present in this world.

 

[tlcya]

thank you Reannan, I remember Shanda as well. IIRC that was the case where a lot of kids knew what had happened, perhaps even visited the site over to look at the body? Or maybe that is yet another horrific case I am recalling.

I agree Paintr, I am not excusing anyone's behavior, rest assured. These things are what have helped make our children what they are but you are correct, there is always free will and choices. Each and every one of those kids chose to torture, murder and burn this young man. Each and every one of them should receive the full weight of the law's ability to hold them accountable for those choices.

 

[RLynne]

This case reminds me of the one years back where the group of teens lured the one they claimed was a bully out to kill him one night. There was a movie made about it but I can't for the life of me recall the name of the victim or where it occurred. It was back in the eighties if I recall.

The Bobby Kent case?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Kent

 

[tlcya]

yes RLynne, that was exactly the one I was recalling, thank you. Early nineties then. I remember hearing alot about that case as it was so shocking. Back then this sort of case seemed so abherent and unusual. Sad that we hear about these things almost weekly nowadays.

 

[Nova]

This case reminds me of the one years back where the group of teens lured the one they claimed was a bully out to kill him one night. There was a movie made about it but I can't for the life of me recall the name of the victim or where it occurred. It was back in the eighties if I recall.

Once again, mob rule, mob mentality. No one is personally accountable if they are just following the crowd. This thought processes frightens the hell outta me as we are seeing it more and more every day.

I believe the film you mean is called Bully. It stars Nick Stahl and Brad Renfro.

I found it surprisingly good.

 

[Nova]

You know what. I understand all the arguments about the social electronic networks, absent parents, mob mentality ....but I don't buy it. You can learn a great deal of good from the WWW if one choses to. There are good lessons in print, in movies, learned from teachers and other adults and role models besides your parents, if you chose to learn them.

What these kids did was sick, violent, sadistic, and twisted. They made terrible choices. But they did have choices. They could have chosen to stop. They didn't. They tortured and killed someone. Now they must pay for that.

With all due respects, I don't think you do understand "all the arguments" or you wouldn't dismiss them so cavalierly. Nobody is saying these kids made good choices. As far as I know, nobody is saying the perpetrators are less culpable (legally or otherwise) because they may have been influenced by electronic media.

We're just trying to understand why they acted out in the way they did in response to this specific context.

Simply saying "they made bad choices" doesn't tell us anything. It's a tautology.

 

[Paintr]

thank you Reannan, I remember Shanda as well. IIRC that was the case where a lot of kids knew what had happened, perhaps even visited the site over to look at the body? Or maybe that is yet another horrific case I am recalling.

I agree Paintr, I am not excusing anyone's behavior, rest assured. These things are what have helped make our children what they are but you are correct, there is always free will and choices. Each and every one of those kids chose to torture, murder and burn this young man. Each and every one of them should receive the full weight of the law's ability to hold them accountable for those choices.

I'm sorry, ticox, I did not mean to sound as I was growling at anyone, especially you. :blushing: Just a bit fustrated, I guess.

I am sure their defense attornies will list all the reasons why they did such a thing, all the mitigating factors, and why it is not their fault. But what it comes down to in the end is that these kids believed that they were more important than the boy they killed. That is inexcusable. These criminals are alive to go through the legal wrangling that is to come. I save my sympathies for the victim and his family.

 

[mysteriew]

Actually it isn't sympathy. It is more like sorrow, in that initally these didn't look like "bad kids". And it is sorrow for our society, that so many of our young people seem to so easily "choose" to resolve so many things with violence. And it is a question of how did we get to this position in our society? Kids killing kids, kids torturing kids, kids killing parents and grandparents. And that is kids as young as 8 and up.

Sympathy for the murderers? No. Some sympathy for some of their parents maybe.

 

[girlinblue]

I really don't think Facebook or social networking, or the internet in general, was the petri dish for this crime. Unfortunately, it tends to be a common denominator, stressed by the media because it's sensational, and because humans in general (especially those not of the internet generation) don't want to believe such horrible things can occur without a seedy platform. You take one ingredient out of a recipe, it's still a meal, just not as tasty.

All it really is, is a forum. These kids were going to harass each other any way possible. And they did. The facebook posts reference confrontations. They saw each other in Real Life, this started in Real Life, it wasn't some online rivalry that crossed boundaries. These kids knew each other, lived with each other. Facebook came after. It was just a communication tool, like text messages, phone calls, conversations on the street, paper letters. The idea to kill this kid did not come from Facebook. It was already in the pot. It was deliberate, thought out, and executed, independent of facebook status messages.

I just think that gets lost in the debate. In most of these cases, the internet ends up on trial, not the perpetrators. It's a shame. The internet isn't bad. It's just a tool. One that makes it easy to be brave. I'm not saying that it didn't foster something that was already there, but, IT WAS ALREADY THERE, and already so intense that something would've happened sooner or later anyway.

Now that I've gotten off my soapbox, does anyone know why the one kid's face was so beat up in his mugshot? I'm not sure which one. There are so many involved and the names are blurring together for me. I'm curious about how/when he got the black eyes.

 

[mysteriew]

That was Bargo. And I haven't seen any offical explanation, but commenters to the media articles indicate the bruises and lacerations were from previous fights with Seath and/or from the night of the murder.

It isn't that I believe the internet has caused the murder. It is more about what caused the perception for these kids and others, that torture/murder is an acceptable way to resolve the problem.

I do think it is going to hard on these kids in prison. They were acting 'tough'. But when they get to prison, it is going to be noticed that they were 18, their victim was 15. That this 15 yo caused major damage to the one perp. And that it took a whole group to take down one 15 yo boy, and included hitting with wooden objects and a gun. They aren't really that 'tough'.

 

[girlinblue]

Thanks, mysteriew. I tend not to look at the comments on most of the articles. I thought that might be it, but didn't want to assume.

I don't know if they really thought they were murdering someone. I mean, I'm sure they said "we'll kill him," but I don't think any of them realized they were taking a life. These kids were all playing with fire, feeding off each other. This story reminds me a lot of Bobby Kent.

Been a little hectic with it being Easter (BTW, Happy Easter for those of you who celebrate), so I haven't really taken the time to read the entirety of articles. Have the paint cans been recovered, will they be? Skimming over one of the articles a few minutes ago I realized -- they literally cremated him. So thoroughly. You hear about bodies being burned, but the remains only being 'charred'. This is just so...complete. There's nothing left of him. Like he never existed. His poor family.

 

[Paintr]

It is such a sad waste of young lives and so many (families and friends on both sides) will be affected by this. Such a needless mess.

 

[mysteriew]

Thanks, mysteriew. I tend not to look at the comments on most of the articles. I thought that might be it, but didn't want to assume.

I don't know if they really thought they were murdering someone. I mean, I'm sure they said "we'll kill him," but I don't think any of them realized they were taking a life. These kids were all playing with fire, feeding off each other. This story reminds me a lot of Bobby Kent.

Been a little hectic with it being Easter (BTW, Happy Easter for those of you who celebrate), so I haven't really taken the time to read the entirety of articles. Have the paint cans been recovered, will they be? Skimming over one of the articles a few minutes ago I realized -- they literally cremated him. So thoroughly. You hear about bodies being burned, but the remains only being 'charred'. This is just so...complete. There's nothing left of him. Like he never existed. His poor family.

They put him into the bathtub intending to dismember him or break his legs or something so they could fit him into the bag they were putting him in. When they broke his kneecaps, they realized he was alive. So they shot him again. Yeah IMO they intended to murder him.

 

[girlinblue]

They put him into the bathtub intending to dismember him or break his legs or something so they could fit him into the bag they were putting him in. When they broke his kneecaps, they realized he was alive. So they shot him again. Yeah IMO they intended to murder him.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying at all this wasn't intentional or premeditated. It was, so clearly. I'm not defending, not routing an escape from responsibility. This was horrible. I shed tears thinking about Seath in the bathtub. They intended to harm and kill him, but I just don't know if they were intelligently capable of seeing it as Murder, as permanently removing someone from life. I think kids who kill in general, especially in this group frenzy, don't grasp how REAL what they are doing is. There's no excuse, no reason, no escaping culpability for anyone involved. I just don't think they're mature enough to understand what it truly meant.

 

[porkchop]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying at all this wasn't intentional or premeditated. It was, so clearly. I'm not defending, not routing an escape from responsibility. This was horrible. I shed tears thinking about Seath in the bathtub. They intended to harm and kill him, but I just don't know if they were intelligently capable of seeing it as Murder, as permanently removing someone from life. I think kids who kill in general, especially in this group frenzy, don't grasp how REAL what they are doing is. There's no excuse, no reason, no escaping culpability for anyone involved. I just don't think they're mature enough to understand what it truly meant.

I think the police will find that these people were all on meth when they did this. Just look at the ringleaders face. Some of those sores and wounds do look like he got them from a fight, but some also look very much the sores meth users get. Meth will completely remove a person from reality.

 

[mysteriew]

You may be right. But they were intelligent enough and mature enough to plan and carryout the disposal of his remains. Something that many adults seem to be incapable of doing.

 

[mysteriew]

I think the police will find that these people were all on meth when they did this. Just look at the ringleaders face. Some of those sores and wounds do look like he got them from a fight, but some also look very much the sores meth users get. Meth will completely remove a person from reality.

You could very well be right. Seath accused Amber. By outing her (if it was true) word was going to get out and their parents might find out. And it looked like most lived with their parents.

It would have been bad if it wasn't true. But would probably have been worse if it was true.

 

[Reality Orlando]

It's not just social networking sites. People have been engaging in appalling online behavior since the inception of inet. Social networking sites just amplify it. In any event, Dr. John Suler claims this sort of behavior is due to the "Online Disinhibition Effect." ( link ) I tend to agree.

I understand what you're saying, but my person feeling is that we're enabling an entire generation to act badly by giving irresponsible, violent behavior terms that validate that behavior. What about personal responsibility? How hard is it to stop and think before acting out. Let's see...should I beat, shoot, then dismember this guy because he dissed my girl? Hmmm...decisions, decisions. :banghead: How many more "disabilities" are going to be fabricated to allow today's youth to move away from common sense? I've been online since the inception of the internet and I've yet to commit any crimes nor have I lost my sense of right from wrong. I'm sure most here can say the same thing.