FL - Terrorist Discussion/49 Killed in Orlando at Nightclub Pulse

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I think so, too, human.

I also think it was not a "domestic terrorism-type incident."

It was a domestic terrorism attack the same as the domestic terrorism attack in Orlando.

Different "brands" and different hateful influences, but in the end it is the same.

Innocent lives taken by persons with hate in their hearts.

IMO The core deal about terrorism is an attempt to change policy by the American govt. motivation is the key deal, imo . M
*advertiser censored* shootings may fall into any of a number of categories, including killers of family, of coworkers,

What we are getting confused is the goal of "terrorism" first and foremost, is to draw attn to or change our policies. Core goal of a "terrorist" attack"

These mass shootings they had no political "agenda - yet the result is terrorizing. .
----Batman------ was thre Joker, doing what the Joker does, There was no want /need /desire to change a govt policy - mass murder , not a terrorist attack.Motivation key. Result: Terror

----Virgina Tech---- Untreated mental illiness. There was no want /need /desire to change a govt policy - mass murder , not a terrorist attack.Motivation key. Result: Terror

-----Sandy Hook------undiagnosed schizophrenia. There was no want /need /desire to change a govt policy - mass murder , not a terrorist attack.Motivation key. . Result: Terror

----Washington Navy Yard---- belief that he was being controlled or influenced by radio waves. There was no want /need /desire to change a govt policy - mass murder , not a terrorist attack.Motivation key. . Result: Terror

-------Lubys Cafiteria -----motivation --He hated blacks, Hispanics, gays. He said women were snakes" and "always had derogatory remarks about women, especially after fights with his mothe--passed over men to shoot women. There was no want /need /desire to change a govt policy - mass murder , not a terrorist attack.Motivation key. Result: Terror

----The tv anchors-----
motivation revenge and jeolousy , and feeling inferior. There was no want /need /desire to change a govt policy - mass murder , not a terrorist attack.Motivation key. Result: Terror

----Charleston---- --Motivation disdain for AA. There was no want /need /desire to change a govt policy - mass murder , not a terrorist attack.Motivation key. Result: Terror

---Pulse----Motivtation self hatred/revenge. There was no want /need /desire to change a govt policy - mass murder , not a terrorist attack.Motivation key. Result: Terror

What is happening now is we are putting the religion of the shooter, in terms of importance, before the motivation for the act, that is the differnce between a terorist attack and a mass shooting.

All mass shootings terrorize. So do serial killers. Rapists.These are the resultant consequences . Eat too muct get fat. Same thing moo
 
After terror attacks - by terrorists - hate crimes against Muslims increase. It's one of the results of Islamic terrorism. So separate issue maybe but still related to the topic.

So if we can stop the Islamic terrorist attacks, the hate crimes against Muslims will also stop?
 
Why do you think hate crimes against muslims increase after terrorist attacks by radical muslims?

Personally, I think if government agencies and leaders were handling terror surveillance and terror investigations appropriately and effectively, there would be far fewer hate crimes against muslims after terrorist attacks by radical muslims. Other than LECTURING and THREATENING the general public, our leaders (and our potus, in particular) have not done anything at all effective in persuading the general public that they have a handle on terrorism surveillance, and that there is a vast difference between peaceful muslims and radicalized muslims. Our leaders, IMO, are contributing mightily to the misperceptions and anger directed at the entire american muslim community.

As long as our potus refuses to acknowledge radical islamic terrorism, or make any distinctions between radical muslims (and what that means), and more mainstream muslims, our leaders are responsible for increasing the scrutiny and prejudices toward all muslims by the general public. IMO.

The denial of radical islamic extremism and terrorism that our potus engages in is pathologic, and very damaging to more moderate muslims, IMO. I absolutely hold our potus responsible for that.

I also understand why he will never, ever change his stance on islam and muslims-- and I do not think he is a muslim himself. He grew up during his formative years in indonesia, one of the most heavily muslim nations on earth. He did not "grow up" as an american, even though he later went to school in Hawaii. So that explains, IMO, a lot of his extreme unreasonableness and ideas about islam and islamic terrorism. They are hard wired in his psyche-- he is unable, IMO, to accept or consider a different viewpoint, or critically examine his own favorable prejudices and ideas about islam and muslims. He has a real psychological and emotional deficiency in this area, IMO, because of his childhood experiences. Which is pretty dangerous, IMO, for someone charged with keeping American citizens safe, in the face of repeated attacks by radical islamic terrorists.

Um, what are the laws he has made? Isn't that the job of Congress?
 
So if we can stop the Islamic terrorist attacks, the hate crimes against Muslims will also stop?

People hate people who are different than they are. I am sure plenty of nuts will keep hating people who are different. We seem to not deal well yet with bullying. Maybe someday all schools will be teaching kids to problem solve and to help them feel better about themselves inspite of what has happened to them at home or elsewhere.
 
Um, what are the laws he has made? Isn't that the job of Congress?

He enacts rules of law all the time with the swipe of a pen.

Yes it really is suppose to be the House which enacts laws but Obama hasn't ever thought that was necessary. He just issues an executive order and that way he doesn't have to ask anyone.
 
People hate people who are different than they are. I am sure plenty of nuts will keep hating people who are different. We seem to not deal well yet with bullying. Maybe someday all schools will be teaching kids to problem solve and to help them feel better about themselves inspite of what has happened to them at home or elsewhere.

Yes. That's why anti-Muslim hate in America has little to do with Islamic terrorism. JMO
 
He enacts rules of law all the time with the swipe of a pen.

Yes it really is suppose to be the House which enacts laws but Obama hasn't ever thought that was necessary. He just issues an executive order and that way he doesn't have to ask anyone.

He also likes to block the enforcement of laws he doesn't like. JMO
 
Yes. That's why anti-Muslim hate in America has little to do with Islamic terrorism. JMO

What are you saying? People hate Muslims no matter what ? That Islamic terrorism is of no matter so who cares?
 
NOW Germany theatre shooting, hostages.......................!!!!! MSNBC just listening no link Viernheim Ger.
 

IMO The core deal about terrorism is an attempt to change policy by the American govt. motivation is the key deal, imo . M


*snip*

(Above) Snipped by me.

(Below) Emphasis added by me.

In these calls, the shooter, who identified himself as an Islamic soldier, told the crisis negotiator that he was the person who pledged his allegiance to [Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi] and told the negotiator to tell America to stop bombing Syria and Iraq and that is why he was “out here right now.”

https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi....ive-update-regarding-pulse-nightclub-shooting

I dunno.

Seems to me that mentioning "stop bombing Syria and Iraq" to a crisis negotiator is an intention to attempt to influence US policy.

...that is why he was “out here right now.”

Is that not a statement of motive/intent?

Enhanced by the self-identification as an "Islamic soldier" and the inclusion of the bayah (pledge), seems to me that Mateen intended to impart a demand in lockstep with ISIS for change in US policy.

At any rate, an attempt to influence policy is one of three OR (not AND) elements of domestic terrorism as defined in 18 U.S.C. Section (BBM):

(5) the term "domestic terrorism" means activities that -

(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;

(B) appear to be intended -

(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and

(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/113B/2331#sthash.DVxmn6tD.dpuf

Looks to me that Mateen's acts satisfy both i and ii (and arguably iii), although only one of i, ii, and iii is necessary to meet the definition of domestic terrorism.
 
Were safe -- mostly spell checked!

This attack has led to endless references to San Bern terrorist attack, so I decided to refresh my memory in a kind compare and contrast mode; Here is what I found.

According to links below :


They spent at least a year preparing- OM bought a couple of guns the weeks before,indicating impulsive (congruent with mental illness , as opposed to a Jihad attack years in the making. i.e Paris.


What was their lifestyle like as it relates to Muslim cultural practices.?


She was born in Pakistan... OM New York..Ms. Milk returned to Pakistan ...... University in Multan, the area a center of support for extremist jihads groups, including Lasher-e-Tibia.. He took a Holiday with his parents to the middle east. According to the FBI it was a Holiday with his parents. MOO


.She chose not to drive voluntarily per custom. OM is cruising to gay bars 90 minutes away. According to Muslim beliefs she prohibited anyone from seeing her face... because she always kept it covered in their presence. Sued did’t want any fathers or brothers or brothers-in-law in the same room when she would also be there.

Om was posting his face all over gay sex sites, hoping to participate in, what the Muslim culture would describe as a big sin.. In addition, OM, as we have seen in different media pictures, Omar seemed quite up to date on the latest western fashion for his American age related counterparts MOO.


She prayed five times a day,.and . and maintained Muslim traditions in terms of fasting. He, like many Americans were running to GNC. As far as OM goes, we have conflicting information, as it relates to time periods in his life, regarding his prayer activities. This is totally congruent with bipolar symptoms. Feeling either very depressed (exaggerate feelings of shame and guilt) deep depression also results in profound periods of isolation and withdrawal, corresponding to his absence of prayer during portions of his life. MOO


Many saw no evidence of religion and or praying for long periods in his life. This too makes sense in that religion resulted in much of his shame and guilt. Makes sense he would spend a lot of his years not wanting to have anything to do with his religion because of the anguish, as a gay Muslim, he experienced when engaging in its teachings.


In other descriptions of him he is described as frequently praying. - exactly what one would expect during the manic phases of bipolar disorder. Goal directed behaviors. Feverishly. Much like his frenzied search one night on ISIS stuff online the first week in June. The guy at the guard gate also deiscribed another event in which he spent an entire evening researching meds. WIth no sleep. Picture mania like a movie where it sped up. MOO


The Sana Bern guys, over a long period of time (before they were engaged) relentlessly sent each other , messages,expressing a commitment to jihadism and martyrdom..Mr. Fa rook had posted profiles on Muslim dating websites. OM on line activity consisted of grinder and looking for gay bars.


During their attack they were in full terrorist wardrobe ; masks and military-style vests, load-bearing vests holding magazines and ammunition. OM was in a pair of American made blue jeans, a t shirt and a gun. MOO

They used assault rifles, variants of the .223-caliber AR-15 rifle, both showed signs of having been illegally modified. OM used a legally purchased assault weapon as sold.


The couple turned part of the house into a bomb-making factory. ..... where they found 12 completed pipe bombs ........... and a stockpile of thousands of rounds of ammunition.,

In their home they found several issues of Al Quada "Inspire magazine. In one edition , they used the how to make murder weapons section with the emphasis on the feature article , “Designing a Timed Hand Grenade,.” This piece had step-by-step instructions for making a delayed igniter with a Christmas tree lamps. Christmas tree lights were found in the home. Apparently they did not follow the instructions in the publication in that these failed to work as promised in the terrorist publication.

They found another edition of the publication in the home. Apparently they subscribed! From this edition they focused on the feature which provided schematics on making remote controlled devices, which can be activated by remote control, from the car These ISIS terrorists were hoping the devices would blow up emergency personal upon their arrival by activatig them from their car. Multiple copies of the Koran was found scattered about their home.

I might guess Omars reading selection was the monthly gay travel guide! MOO

The San Bern folks went to great lengths to destroy their electronics. and tried to erase their electronic footprints, smashing etc... using a.“burner phone,” meant to be used for a short time and discarded, OM left his phone at the scene, aparently not concerned if authorities got thier labs on it.

In OM home they found pictures of the family on the fridge, western wall hangings, , and a couple of rooms decked out in the American motion picture Star Wars motif. There was an abundance of American perfumes, a closet adorned in Western clothing. MOO

The living room had very typical furniture found in homes across this nation. In the kitchen there was wide assortment of Kellogg's cereal products. In the sons rooms what would probably be considered, by many, was a spoiled child. MOOHis room was abundant in toys all American children enjoy. .

Americas addiction to baseball caps adorned the child's walls. A poster with the slogan "Be someone you would be proud to be" with 4 American children jumping for joy, in American attire was on Omar's sons wall. We should also take note of the weights on the floor and his attendance to the gym. IMO They assimilated to our culture. I do not know but I do not think Muslims are that into gyms.


During their attack they posted on FB their allegiance to ISIS. This was one of the first copy cat things OM did that night - he also posted an allegiance to ISIS on his page. The second copy cat deal he used was that there were people outside wearing vests (like the Paris attackers). He also copied the Boston folks by claiming there were bombs outside.MOO


i....can...........not...........................imagine...........the...........San Bern guys..............................vocationally......................guarding....................an...........
American.............................................building!

MOO


Unlike OM , at no time did the San Bern guys get confused with "whom" they were going to die for that day.

IMO, there is no correlation at all. This was a ,IMO a mass shooting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/05/u...ficial-says/?utm_term=.8d72c368366bstate.html


http://www.bustle.com/articles/1245...st-group-poses-an-extreme-threat-to-the-world


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_San_Bernardino_attack
 
PC will be the death of us? Seriously??

Being respectful, accurate, and compassionate is not going to kill us all.

Jmo
 
Hi Everyone,

Please do not post links/videos to sites that are not considered mainstream media. If we allow ********* and videos by Milo then we have to Allow Rosie and Rosanne.

That's why we have the rule. Mainstream media only unless pre-approved by management.

Thank you,
Tricia
 

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