FL - Troubling discovery after girls drown in pond, St. Petersburg, 2016

[flourish]

And what was the State of Florida juvie court system doing to help them outgrow their stupid choices?(although I disagree with the latter) Just slap them on the wrist and send them out the revolving door?:moo:

I don't know what the state would have done, but we'll certainly never know now!

 

[Irisha]

I don't know what the state would have done, but we'll certainly never know now!

It not what the state would have done, it's what they should have done a long time ago.The state should have started serious punishment oh say, after the 2nd stolen car crime. It's said that their lives ended like this.:moo:

 

[sonjay]

I wonder what their parents did, if anything, to help them outgrow their stupid choices?

Or do the parents not bear any responsibility?

 

[Irisha]

I wonder what their parents did, if anything, to help them outgrow their stupid choices?

Or do the parents not bear any responsibility?

Just a guess, but doesn't seem like the parents or State juvie dept. did anything.:moo:

 

[sonjay]

Just a guess, but doesn't seem like the parents or State juvie dept. did anything.:moo:

The parents, with 15 & 16 years of daily opportunities to influence & educate these girls about smart choices, morality, ethics, etc., failed miserably.

The state had less than 2 years, with much more limited opportunities.

Plus, the state would have had to overcome 15 & 16 years of the parents' failures.

If we're going to point fingers and place blame on parties other than the girls themselves, I have to place a much greater share of that blame on the parents than on the state.

 

[Irisha]

The parents, with 15 & 16 years of daily opportunities to influence & educate these girls about smart choices, morality, ethics, etc., failed miserably.

The state had less than 2 years, with much more limited opportunities.

Plus, the state would have had to overcome 15 & 16 years of the parents' failures.

If we're going to point fingers and place blame on parties other than the girls themselves, I have to place a much greater share of that blame on the parents than on the state.

Apparently the State of Florida had to know the parents did nothing, if the parents even had custody of them. They should have been in strict juvie custody for quite a while.:moo:

 

[jjenny]

Apparently the State of Florida had to know the parents did nothing, if the parents even had custody of them. They should have been in strict juvie custody for quite a while.:moo:

Well we do have all these new policies where emphasis is on rehabilitation of juveniles instead of punishment. I guess that means juveniles are running around free instead of being in custody.

 

[al66pine]

This same news was posted elsewhere, and one poster assessed it from a personal viewpoint as a trained, experienced Search & Rescue diver (not from FL, but presumably just as reliable or unreliable as any WS poster who is not verified as an search & recovery team member, but who claims to be )

"I was a recovery diver and swift-water recovery volunteer for about 16 years in Southern California. I was also a shipyard and military rescue swimmer, and rec diver, and I’ve gone in the water for 3 or 4 FD’s. There absolutely are some FD’s and PD’s who do cross-team for water recovery, and some FD’s or PD’s may maintain a dive team, like NYPD, (more frequently it was under the Sheriff’s, as we were) but water recovery is a very specialized activity, normally managed at the County level.
These cops are told to not go in.
I’m impressed that they even looked like they were going to try.
I wouldn’t have gone in there either, unless I had been familiarized with that pond.
We spent a LOT of time out in the field, looking at any location like this where you might reasonably have had a chance of a vehicle going into the water. That’s what the volunteers did. We went out and surveyed ponds like this. No gators in SoCal . . Lots of shopping carts though.
We would have already gone into this pond, if it was as large as it seems to be. That’s actually a good training pond." bbm

He & others list factors making a 'rescue effort' in these circumstances unadvisable for trained & experienced SAR ppl, (let alone untrained, inexp'ed LEOs or others):
-- lack of exp & training in this particular pond,
--lack of proper equipment, boat, scuba gear, breathing equipmt, wet suits, underwater lighting, tools to break glass & force open car doors underwater, cables, etc
-- presence/existence of alligators & poisonous snakes in/near water.
--in darkness.
--inability to visually locate car precisely (not knowing how much further it was carried by forward momentum before engine stopped).
-- and more.

Every year we read/hear about multiple cases where ppl 'jump in' to save others (loved ones or strangers), and some of these would-be rescuers lose their own lives.
Some ppl here who say LEOs should have gone in may be recalling fictional accounts shown on TV/movies/vid games, of heroically spectacular saves.
Anyone here without training, experience, & equpment who wants to jump in & depend on dumb, blind luck in such a situation may do so.
But personally I do not expect untrained, inexperienced and unequipped LEOs or anyone to risk jeopardize their lives to save others when trained experienced, equipped SAR teams would not have done so.
Esp when those in peril are facing foreseeable consequences (i.e. drowning) of their own actions (i.e., driving car into a dark pond in the dark).

Teenage mistake(s) that morning, pulling off the road, driving into a pond? Yes? Sad, sad, sad for those teens, families, friends? Yes.
JM2cts.

 

[ladygator]

[h=1]Activists call for independent investigation of pond crash that killed three St. Petersburg teenagers[/h]
"In a press release announcing a news conference today, the International People's Democratic Uhuru Movement alleges that the deputies who were following the stolen car "terrorized the three teenagers in a high-speed chase ending by causing their vehicle to crash into a pond."
At the 10 a.m. news conference, the group said it will announce "actions they will be taking against Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri for this murder and cover-up," the news release states.
"Gualtieri," the group said, "has praised the killer cops as 'heroes.' "
The Uhurus will be joined by representatives from Black Lives Matter, Bay Area Dream Defenders, Nation of Islam and the NAACP, among other organizations."

http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...vestigation-of-pond-crash-that-killed/2275079

 

[wendybtn]

I see it both ways it's horrible that these 3 girls died because they were running from police, in a stolen car. However, who wouldn't try to get to them, no matter their criminal records. How do you not try your hardest when people are drowning ?

You do realize that entering water where something heavy is sinking in the dark without the skills and equipment needed is a death trap? We cannot save everyone from themselves.

 

[wendybtn]

Just a guess, but doesn't seem like the parents or State juvie dept. did anything.:moo:

My limited experience with our local juvenile services is that it is a revenue raising activity for the municipality, with very little supervision or help for the family or teen, complete lack of drug testing unless you beg (but I can do it at home cheaper with OTC kits,) and lock-up only if paid for by the family. Unless they commit murder, apparently. I was planning on it being a supplement to what we were doing to calm down a teen starting down the wrong road. What a waste of time and money.

 

[ladygator]

[h=1]Mother of one of three girls who drowned in stolen car plans lawsuit[/h]http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2016/5/10/mother_of_one_of_thr.html

Who didn't see this coming?

 

[Blabbermouth]

You do realize that entering water where something heavy is sinking in the dark without the skills and equipment needed is a death trap? We cannot save everyone from themselves.

 

[Blabbermouth]

Exactly. There's a lot of people on this thread who don't know anything about retention ponds. They are full of alligators, snakes, weeds, sinking sand, and much worse. Without the proper equipment and knowledge, only a fool would've followed these girls into a retention pond.

 

[SpanishMossAntiques]

Supreme court ruled police aren't obligated to save you. And in this case it wouldn't be easy.
And never mind that police didn't even know who was in the car. They could have been trying to save this person and this person could have hurt them (considering that car was reported stolen).

Actually, they did not. The Supreme Court ruled that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm - read the decision.

 

[SpanishMossAntiques]

Again, minors were trying to outrun police, the car they were in was stolen, it went into retention pond, and they drowned. I don't see any mystery here in this case. Supreme court ruled police don't have a legal obligation to save you.
So police didn't have an obligation to jump in their after the car. In any case, it wouldn't be easy to save them for someone unqualified for underwater rescue.

So, according to your response, these girls deserved a death sentence because they had numerous prior arrests? OMG...

 

[wendybtn]

So, according to your response, these girls deserved a death sentence because they had numerous prior arrests? OMG...

No. But we cannot save everyone from their own decisions and behaviors. Mostly, we do that a lot. But the world isn't perfect and not everyone can be saved.

 

[teedie2]

[h=1]Mother of one of three girls who drowned in stolen car plans lawsuit[/h]Mother of one of three girls who drowned in stolen car plans lawsuit

Who didn't see this coming?

Any word on a lawsuit yet?

 

[Rayemonde]

A lawsuit lodged against law enforcement by the mothers of three teenage girls, who drowned after the stolen car they were driving plunged into a cemetery pond, saw a major shake-up when two of the mothers backed out of the case.

Ciara Butler and Natasha Winkler dismissed their claims last month, according to court records. The remaining mother appears to be pressing forward without a lawyer, seeking damages for what the complaint says were discriminatory and negligent actions that led to the deaths of Dominique Battle, 16, and Ashaunti Butler and LaNiya Miller, both 15...

"I've said all along that, No. 1, it's a very unfortunate and tragic situation," the sheriff said this week, "but despite that, we didn't do anything wrong ... and it is now clear and established through their own acknowledgements that they didn't have a basis for their accusations."...

The lawsuit, filed in June in federal court, claims that deputies chased the three girls into the cemetery, then didn't try to help them as the stolen Honda Accord disappeared into the muck.

Mothers of two St. Petersburg girls who drowned in stolen car drop out of lawsuit

 

[al66pine]

View attachment 217386
Mothers of two St. Petersburg girls who drowned in stolen car drop out of lawsuit

@Rayemonde Thanks for your update w link.
Article is from Nov 2018. I wonder what has happened since.
From the link, re lawsuit filed more than 2 yrs after deaths, see bbm, below.
"Yashica Clemmons, the mother of Dominique, could not be reached for comment after repeated attempts and a visit to her home, nor could a lawyer who represented her in the aftermath of the March 2016 crash. The lawyer, Aaron O'Neal, worked with Clemmons, who later adopted the name Kunde Mwamvita, through the International People's Democratic Uhuru Movement. The community group rallied around the families after the crash and contend police killed the girls because they were black."
"And in one filing, an attorney representing Gualtieri and a Pinellas sergeant also named as a defendant, took issue with the mechanics of the lawsuit. She wrote the case is a wrongful death suit disguised as a civil rights complaint to get around the expired statute of limitations. Florida has a two-year statute of limitations for wrongful death claims."