Flores investigative report- Discuss it here

[ElleElle]

I agree about the doors being locked.

Deanna had a key. Why would she need one if the doors were never locked.

As far as that goes, why would Jodi use the doggie door if the doors were never locked and she knew the combo for the garage?

BBM ~ I highly doubt Jodi knew the garage door keycode. By this time, Travis has already called her out and made every attempt to block Jodi from access to his private life. :moo:

Travis let her in that night/morning.

 

[ElleElle]

If I remember correctly, there were several people that gave DNA samples and one of them was with Jodi the day she gave hers.

For anyone questioning the premeditation, why do you think it was so important to Jodi to deny having the third gas tank? Having 2 looks very strange IMO, but she knew the third one was what was necessary to go through Arizona undetected. Otherwise why wouldn't she just admit she had 3?

The idea that someone would take gas cans on a trip because they were worried about running out of gas yet not go without a starbucks to make sure you have a phone charger also makes no sense to me. She made several stops on the way so I can't fathom that she wouldn't have bought a charger the minute she thought hers was lost.

We use our land line as our principle phone, ( I know...archaic, LOL) but we always have our cell phones in our cars for emergency use. JMO

BBM ~ Jodi was on a mission. Same as, the car rental? If she was on a mission to hunt and kill, why did rent a car? Oh right, her alibi: Ryan Burns.

 

[ElleElle]

BBM

People generally accept what others say unless there are reasons to doubt the claims.

Primary reasons to doubt include the source's track record of prevarication and the observer's knowledge to the contrary.

In the case of the convicted lying torture murderess, being a proven and even self-professing liar, everything she said which did not comport with known facts was suspect.

During the trial, it could be argued that her own testimony degraded her credibility to the point that she shifted the unofficial burden of truth-proof to herself.

In fact, everything that she says now which cannot be independently corroborated is also suspect.

True pathological liars will hold to the lies -- which to them are central to their pretend credibility -- and will fabricate or attempt to twist what they perceive as supporting data so as to convince others of the veracity of their alternate 'truths', the original lies which they believe are indispensable.

In the case of criminal defendants, it is usually only when confronted with overwhelming evidence to the contrary that they ever abandon the lies, and then often only when their counsel finally succeeds in persuading them it is the only legally defensible way forward -- if the jury is to be won over, that is.

The best liars weave some truth in and around the lies. As practiced as she was, her lies were so incredible that she ultimately failed the 'capable liar' criterion.

When the lies are so patently and demonstrably false, and the downside consequences of holding to them so severe, the lie(s) will be abandoned and/or traded for others which attempt to 'deal with' or 'explain away' the facts.

Isn't this actually the case with Jodi Ann Arias, and doesn't it explain why case/trial observers with a modicum of common sense still recognize a liar, especially when contrasted with the obvious truth?

Just because observers do or do not believe someone's story does not mean that they believe nothing at all. Observers of this case/trail believed that the victim was murdered. And they believe that the overwhelming evidence pointed to only one probable perpetrator.

More importantly, even sympathetic jurors unanimously believed, beyond a single reasonable doubt, that the lying torture murderess committed especially cruel murder in the first degree.

BBM ~ :seeya: Exactly.

Jodi did this on her own and had no physical help. Although, I still wonder about the phone call between her and Gus Searcy post murder. Was someone else in on her plan?

 

[LambChop]

BBM ~ I highly doubt Jodi knew the garage door keycode. By this time, Travis has already called her out and made every attempt to block Jodi from access to his private life. :moo:

Travis let her in that night/morning.

Travis' roommate said the front door was usually open and when he came home that night he thought it was unusual that the door was locked so he had to get in through the garage. I think JA was telling the truth about getting in herself without Travis knowing. If he had, in fact, met her at the door she would have stated that leading everyone to believe he was expecting her. There would be no incentive nor reason to lie about whether or not he let her in. jmo

 

[LambChop]

BBM ~ :seeya: Exactly.

Jodi did this on her own and had no physical help. Although, I still wonder about the phone call between her and Gus Searcy post murder. Was someone else in on her plan?

Could it be she got some of the money she deposited from GS? She made three deposits of cash. Some minutes apart. Could she have had a check that she cashed first before deciding to put the money in her account? jmo

 

[Truth Detector]

BBM ~ :seeya: Exactly.

Jodi did this on her own and had no physical help. Although, I still wonder about the phone call between her and Gus Searcy post murder. Was someone else in on her plan?

Searcy was perhaps the only person in this entire case whose ego rivals that of the lying torture murderess, with ALV and Doc Samuels not-so-distant seconds.

I think he was intentionally vague just to milk the limelight.

But knowing JA, if Gus had any material involvement she would have bled him dry -- in every way we can imagine and some we can't -- and then given him up.

I.e., I won't believe he was in on it unless that can be proven after her sentencing, if then. Conspiracy disclosure now could be the fatal blow to her last-ditch effort to avoid the needle.

 

[ElleElle]

Travis' roommate said the front door was usually open and when he came home that night he thought it was unusual that the door was locked so he had to get in through the garage. I think JA was telling the truth about getting in herself without Travis knowing. If he had, in fact, met her at the door she would have stated that leading everyone to believe he was expecting her. There would be no incentive nor reason to lie about whether or not he let her in. jmo

Agreed. Way back when there was much debate as to whether Travis knew of her coming over and I believe he was expecting her. Was it normal for Travis to be on his computer at 4am? Or did Jodi sneak in and get on his computer while he was sleeping?

As far if he let her in, or she came in on her own is really not important.

 

[ElleElle]

Could it be she got some of the money she deposited from GS? She made three deposits of cash. Some minutes apart. Could she have had a check that she cashed first before deciding to put the money in her account? jmo

I always wondered if she had any connections to the drug trade. How did she support herself working low-income jobs? Men? What else?

 

[LambChop]

Agreed. Way back when there was much debate as to whether Travis knew of her coming over and I believe he was expecting her. Was it normal for Travis to be on his computer at 4am? Or did Jodi sneak in and get on his computer while he was sleeping?

As far if he let her in, or she came in on her own is really not important.

Yes. Certainly of no importance now. She should be working on those mitigation issues.

 

[Truth Detector]

I always wondered if she had any connections to the drug trade. How did she support herself working low-income jobs? Men? What else?

As for drugs, we know about the rooftop Mary Jane bust in her teens, but not much afterward.

'Johns' are usually very reluctant to come forward. So we don't know on that one.

But she was tech savvy and loved photography. She was also obsessed with 'selfies' even before they were called that. One could extrapolate out to (conjecture here as she was post-surgical enhancement and a 'junk' primper) on-line *advertiser censored* sales and cybersex, perhaps...

 

[Angelina Frost]

I always wondered if she had any connections to the drug trade. How did she support herself working low-income jobs? Men? What else?

She's not smart enough to get away with trafficking narcotics. Petty weed exchanges, maybe.

I'd be willing to bet it's a combination of cash-at-hand gigs like waiting tables and bartending, supplemented with periodic handouts from family members and men she felt she could manipulate.

As a former bartender chick myself, I can tell you it is verrrrrrrrrrrry easy to steal from a place if you aren't closely watched. If she worked for a Mom and Pop type of establishment without security cameras or a more sophisticated computer system to log transactions, she could rob them blind. With no way to monitor the cash coming in and out, no doubt she padded her take home pay a lot.

JMO but I'd be willing to bet that this convicted murderer and theft are long term good friends. We've seen evidence of that via her "original" tracings.

 

[wasnt_me]

Travis' roommate said the front door was usually open and when he came home that night he thought it was unusual that the door was locked so he had to get in through the garage. I think JA was telling the truth about getting in herself without Travis knowing. If he had, in fact, met her at the door she would have stated that leading everyone to believe he was expecting her. There would be no incentive nor reason to lie about whether or not he let her in. jmo

While I agree with the bulk of this, I believe her first version to Flores has Travis opening the door for her. The OP said something about Travis probably already having made moves to block Jodi out of his life, which I assume means changing codes; however, when Chris and Skye learned of his death, they contacted his webmaster and got his password. They guessed it was the same as his email and were correct. So my thoughts are that Travis didn't change things quickly enough. I'm mortified, though, that the webmaster gave out his code.

 

[wasnt_me]

Agreed. Way back when there was much debate as to whether Travis knew of her coming over and I believe he was expecting her. Was it normal for Travis to be on his computer at 4am? Or did Jodi sneak in and get on his computer while he was sleeping?

As far if he let her in, or she came in on her own is really not important.

We've discussed this at length in the unanswered questions thread, where we even broke down what Travis was doing video-to-video around 4am. You can check it out there, probably around page 50.

 

[wasnt_me]

So, I'm back in this report because Geevee and I were discussing Zach and the camera in the other thread of unresolved questions.

Interesting to Note:

Enrique says that he'd only lived there for two weeks at that time. Guess what was two weeks earlier? May 26th. So I'm assuming he moved in over the memorial day weekend. I wonder if Travis had gone anywhere or done anything for MD weekend.

In any event, Enrique really had no foundation, being only a roommate for about two weeks. Enrique also wouldn't be a source for Travis' comings and goings. I feel for Enrique, and I almost wonder if Jodi hadn't intended to pin it on the "new roommate" if she'd had the time.

But this begs the question, who was the roommate before Enrique--if there had been one? Maybe a vacancy in the house was causing Travis some financial problems? Zach apparently moved in January 29th, according to the report and said he'd spent most of his time with his girlfriend.

We know he had some other roommate there in the fall who'd clued Jodi in supposedly about Lisa, and it's so ironic because Lisa claims that a roommate clued her in about Jodi. If Jodi's lying about the roommate, then she's a parrot because she's copied 2 other statements also attributed to other people. One being who helped TA with the camera purchase (Zach) and the other being a friend on her blog discussing TA shaving and not liking hair. (this statement is hearsay because I heard it but never saw her blog myself.)

June 2, 2008--Last time Mimi saw Travis. Assuming this is FHE. Mimi claims that she knew Travis had spoken to Jodi the previous week and had berated her for breaking into one of his email or FaceBook accounts.

If Mimi last saw Travis or spoke to him on June 2nd, she must be referring to the May 25-26th email, texting, phone and Iming episode.

So, additionally, Mimi cites that it was about two weeks earlier (Memorial day, communications fireworks day for Jodi) that Mimi told Travis she wasn't comfortable going to Cancun as more than friends. I can't remember if she said this took place in person, via facebook or email, but if she'd emailed it to him, I might assume Jodi had seen the email and had confirmation that Mimi was the name on the ticket.

Mimi cites that she doesnt know much about Jodi and on the may camping day trip, Travis told her that he had a stalker who'd followed them on the date. and Jodi had broken into his accounts. I'm wondering if this is what the singles did for Memorial day weekend, and I'm wondering if this is when she talked to Travis about Cancun and the stalker (and not in an email as posited above).

Zach states that TA had "just bought" this camera.

 

[geevee]

I think she did try to blame (or at least get involved in the investigation) a previous roommate, Thomas Brown. I saw a screenshot of two FB posts he made, one saying how demure and quiet she was when she'd come over and talking about himself having done some kind of protection ritual and how surprised TA was to see JA on his doorstep at 4 in the morning. If you google around I'm sure you can find stuff about it and maybe the s/s of his posts, but I believe in the first or second call with Flores JA told him about a Tom that maybe he should talk to.

Thanks for the breakdown on Mimi and Travis, I never was able to follow when and how they talked, or just didn't pay much attention to it, so thanks for putting it together.

 

[Truth Detector]

I think she did try to blame (or at least get involved in the investigation) a previous roommate, Thomas Brown. I saw a screenshot of two FB posts he made, one saying how demure and quiet she was when she'd come over and talking about himself having done some kind of protection ritual and how surprised TA was to see JA on his doorstep at 4 in the morning. If you google around I'm sure you can find stuff about it and maybe the s/s of his posts, but I believe in the first or second call with Flores JA told him about a Tom that maybe he should talk to.

Thanks for the breakdown on Mimi and Travis, I never was able to follow when and how they talked, or just didn't pay much attention to it, so thanks for putting it together.

BBM

This is true; Flores even followed up on the lead.

The lying torture murderess tried to frame him, as TA had supposedly given Brown the boot.

Ever the 'helpful' one, here's what Miss Locks of Love told Flores when she called him to get the status of the murder investigation:

"You might want to talk to a guy named Thomas Brown. And I don`t think that -- honestly, I haven`t seen or heard from him since he was kicked out. I think his last name was Brown. I can try to find him."

 

[Wolfpack Fan]

I don't see how anyone can say there wasn't enough evidence that Jodi killed Travis when there is a picture of her pants leg and sock showing her pulling Travis's body on the last day anyone saw him alive. JODI is the one who said she was a professional photographer. All of the incriminating pictures were deleted. I think she thought that once the pictures were deleted, police wouldn't be able to see them. The only wedding and baby pictures she took were probably of her friends, family, and people who knew her friends and family. She isn't dumb, but she isn't as smart as she was portrayed during the trial. Her overall IQ is something like 119 (90-110 is usually considered the average range). People with IQs much higher than Jodi's have made bigger mistakes than she did with the camera in the washing machine. There are pictures of Jodi and Travis, taken on the day he died. There's the hair with the root, the palm print, etc. There were Band-Aids on her fingers and/or hands when she got to Ryan's house.

As for premeditation, she stole her grandfather's gun around May 28, I think. A 25-caliber gun is not one that a young man would look to buy for protection. She dyed her hair, rented a car so hers wouldn't be noticed in Mesa, wouldn't accept a red car, borrowed two gas cans and bought a third one, etc. How much more premeditation do you need? One roommate was at home during the night, and the other was there part of the afternoon. I also think Jodi used sex that afternoon as a way of getting Travis to change his mind and take her back, and it didn't work.

 

[wasnt_me]

Also, EVERYONE pointed the finger at her right at jump street. I'm sure in her insanity she never thought any of Travis' friends would lead police to her doorstep.

Jodi actually led the police to her doorstep. Before Flores even got inside the house the night TA was found, Dan Freeman approached him and told him that Jodi wanted a call from him. Apparently, when TA was found, DF called Jodi to alert her.

My question, if I was Flores, would be why would JA--of all TA's--friends and loved ones--thought she needed to talk immediately to the police. What other friends and nonrelatives felt compelled to leave him a message to call them back?

I also wonder what other friends felt the need to volunteer to Flores every detail of their relationship with TA. She also used words that sounded like she was trying to get information out of people, like the bishop and zach's girlfriend. I can't remember the words specifically now, but listen to how she talks about her conversation with Zach's girlfriend and you'll see what I mean.

I'd have to listen to their conversations again, but I also don't recall her asking how he died, etc. I shrugged that off to maybe she got that info out of freeman, the bishop, etc, but it would seem that you'd ask the officer. Like I said, I'd have to listen to the initial phone call again to make sure she didn't ask, but I don't recall her asking.

These actions just lead to guilt, if you ask me.

I think she probably did know TA's friends would talk bad about her--if not accuse her. Especially if she actually hacked his emails and facebook. She could not be so dumb as to not know that The Hughes' would be all over it as far as accusing her.

 

[wasnt_me]

......
Of course she could have left a bloody handprint without being the perp, it doesn't necessarily clash with a scenario in which they were both attacked or if there was a fight between them, etc.
What I always wondered was, if she'd really attacked him with a knife by herself, wouldn't he have just taken the knife away from her? Wouldn't he whirl around and take the knife? He was a lot bigger than her. Why would he sustain so many wounds to his back and not turn around to stop her, unless he was busy fending off other injuries from the other side at the time? So I kind of never completely gave up on the theory of more than one perp, I mean the injuries could fit that scenario. If it were only her, how could she do that much damage and not sustain much more damage herself?

Also of course, if she was the perp why leave the camera, it's like it was either placed there to be found or else placed there by a very confused and disoriented person, definitely not someone trying to cover her tracks. And if she'd gone there with any plan to commit murder, why allow herself to be photographed, why hang around doing any of the things she did or submit to any of the things she did? Why spend so much time she would later have to account for? I always kind of wondered about the possibility that she was drugged, or if both of them were. The crime scene was so disorganized. So much of this case hinged on her confession really, but how reliable was that? I don't know. Edited to add, of course all this is purely theoretical as the jury already reached a verdict.

I see that if someone plunges a knife in your chest, knicks your vena cava and your lung, you are probably very concerned with breathing at that point. We have evidence that Travis grabbed the blade of the knife. That causes nothing but more pain and less ability to fight.

It also lends to TA's personality, his state of mind, and the nature of the attack, if you ask me. The fact that JA wasn't hurt besides her hand can be indicative of TA: 1, not wanting to hurt anyone and not being violent, 2, TA only wanted to get away and there was no anger or rage to provoke her, 3, the attack was unexpected.

Of course, number 1 sounds hard to fathom if you are being attacked, but I saw a story once where a rape victim said she had a gun to the attacker's chest and was unable to pull the trigger. She just couldn't take a life. Well, he raped her. Lucky for her, he didn't kill her, and she was the only victim he'd left alive.

As for the camera, I would tend to believe she forgot it. I think she deleted all the pictures, tossed it on the towels maybe, and carried it on accident to the washer. There is no evidence of bleach in the first load that was in the dryer, so I tend to believe Travis had put the first load in. It's just too much time for her to be in the house while the first load washed and then for her to put in a second load. I think Travis started cleaning the house after to sex as a hint for her to leave.

She allowed herself to be photographed because she knew she was going to get rid of the pictures, possibly take the camera if she'd remembered it, and this is speculation on my part, but she might have tried to go back and get it, but couldn't because the roommate was already home. You also have to ask--whoever the perp was--why would ANY perp leave the camera?

As far as the time she spent, my theory is that she'd planned to arrive at 3 or 4am, kill Travis and keep going to Utah. If she could have killed him at 3 or 4am, she would have been only 3 or 4 hours late to get to Burns. But when she arrived, the new roommate was home. She didn't expect that. And she was probably exhausted from all the driving, so she slept, which was why she didn't kill TA the moment Enrique went to work.

Her plan might have been to shoot Travis in his sleep, but it was a very different thing to deal with an awake Travis. I believe she definitely arrived at 4am because of the way she described the daft punk hands video he was watching when she arrived. In her interrogation video, I hate to type this, but she seemed genuine when she described this "stupid" video with people with boxes and foil on their heads. Her tone really did sound as if she hadn't seen it before. She also described the floor cleaning situation in the same manner, which led me to believe she'd probably had a shower after sex and went downstairs to find him immersed in cleaning the floor. To keep his attention on her, she probably lured him into the office to see the CD's she'd brought for him and to have sex again.

So now, Travis really needs a shower after two sex sessions. And she comes up with this shower photo session scenario. OR he tells her he's about to shower and thanks for stopping by, she pretends to leave, but the next thing he knows, she's in the bathroom, snapping pictures.

One thing I can say for sure, a murder planned in her mind isn't the same as executing it. So that's why it's all disoriented. You can study the progression of serial killers to easily understand that the first crimes of a serial killer are a lot less organized then say their 10th or 11th.