For the last time, BURKE DIDN'T DO IT!!

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aRnd2it said:
Please post ONE SINGLE QUOTE from Lou Smit where he says or implies Steve Thomas is untruthful. You won't find one. Smit knows every fact presented in Thomas' book is true.

Lou Smit's "intruder" theory might contradict Thomas' "Patsy" theory, but that does NOT contradict any of the case facts Thomas documented.
It's literally impossible for Lou Smit to believe his theory of the crime and simultaneously agree with every "fact" in ST's fairy tale.

"Detective Smit says whoever killed JonBenet left a lot of clues behind at the crime scene — fibers, hair and DNA — evidence that, Smit says, doesn’t match up with anyone in the Ramsey family.

Smit: “When you have an autopsy, one of the things that they do is, they do clip the fingernails. And in the fingernail clippings, they did find DNA. The primary source of DNA belonged to JonBenet. And that may have even been accountable for her trying to get the garrotte. But a secondary source was also found in both the samples from the right hand and the left hand.

“And foreign DNA is — foreign to JonBenet, but it can point a very strong finger at who may have done it.

“Also, they found DNA in JonBenet’s panties. She had bled during the sexual assault portion of the crime. Again, primary source, they know that’s JonBenet. It was her blood. But there is also a secondary source of DNA. Again, foreign. And it matches the DNA in the fingernails of her hands. This is now in three areas.”

Couric: “When you say foreign, it means not belonging to John, Patsy, or Burke Ramsey?”
Smit: “That’s right. The point of it is, is there is foreign DNA. There’s common foreign DNA. It is not John, it is not Patsy, it is not Burke.

“So, just to take this and say it’s degraded, and throw these beautiful clues away? You can’t do it. You have to plug these — these clues into the intruder side of the story as well. If they match the Ramseys, I’m sure that that would be very conclusive evidence that one of them did this. But you just can’t throw it away. You have to put that into the intruder side of the story. And that’s very strong evidence.”
http://www.acandyrose.com/05022001lousmit-todayshow.htm

Lou Smit doesn't have to point blank say ST lied: it is implicit in his advancing a completely different theory of the case, one based on intruder EVIDENCE, as noted above, and one that is based on the autopsy EVIDENCE:

"Smit, who’s worked over 200 homicide cases, believes strangulation was the cause of death, not part of a staged cover-up. He says that his theory is reinforced by a medical condition called “petechiae,” found on JonBenet.

Couric: “She had something called ‘petechiae.’”

Smit:”Yes.”

Couric: “What is that, and why is it significant?”

Smit: “Petechiae is seen in strangulation cases. What happens is that when a person is strangled, the small blood vessels in the eye burst, causing little pinpoint hemorrhages in the eye. And these are called petechiae.

“JonBenet did have these pinpoint hemorrhages in her eyes. This only occurs when a person is being strangled while they’re still alive. You don’t get petechiae after a person is dead.”

ST's theory simply ignores inconvenient evidence in favor of a theory that ends up being unable to account credibly for the intruder evidence and further flatly contradicts the autopsy evidence (since his theory has the strangulation coming well AFTER the head blow.
 
Wasn't it insinuated that Linda Arndt was emotionally/perhaps sexually involved with Barbara Fernie?

Sissi, I haven't ever read anything about the possibility of that type relationship. Do you have a source for which you base the insinuation? In the deposition I got the impression that LA was befriending BF for information about Patsy.

Thanks.
 
DocWatson said:
Smit: ?Petechiae is seen in strangulation cases. What happens is that when a person is strangled, the small blood vessels in the eye burst, causing little pinpoint hemorrhages in the eye. And these are called petechiae.
Thank you for posting another perfect example of how Lou Smit doesn't know what he's talking about.

Petechiae is caused when the person convulses during strangulation as they suffocate. Convulsion is one of the symptoms of major head concussion. People suffocate to death during severe convulsions when they can't breath. Smit didn't do his homework properly or he would have know that.

CONCUSSION IN CHILDREN
Dial 9-1-1 or 0 (Operator) for an ambulance if your child has any of the following symptoms:
-Pupils (black part in the center of the eye) are unequal in size, and this is new for your child.
-Seizures (convulsions).
-Cannot be woken up.
-Stops responding to you or passes out (faints).

http://www.healthtouch.com/bin/ECon...0709&title=CONCUSSION+IN+CHILDREN+&cid=HTHLTH


Feel free to email that info to Smit so he doesn't make any more stupid statements in public and embarrass himself further.
 
Fact the Ramsey's didn't "win" in their settlement against Thomas. It was a mutually agreed upon settlement between the publishers, ST, and the Ramsey's. It's a sealed agreement so nobody knows who "won" what.

You can logically conclude that because ST didn't have to retract a single word or admit he was wrong in any way that there was no "win" for the Ramseys against him. Perhaps nobody really "won" anything since it was settled secretely. If the Ramsey's had won anything it was whatever insurance money the publishers had on retainer for just such lawsuits, but they certainly got nothing from Thomas. Not even and admission that he was wrong (even though I never believed his theory to begin with) in his relaying how events happened. He never had to retract his saying he thinks Patsy's "good for it" comment or apologize to her for it. It was that particular comment that drove the Ramsey's to sue to begin with (see LKL archives). If they had "won" anything why not a retraction?

Lou Smit says nothing about ST theory, but he doesn't discount the facts of the strife between the BPD and the DA's offices. He was there, he saw it firsthand too. In fact it was one of the main reasons he resigned.

The interesting and telling information in Thomas book isn't his theory of who killed JonBenet and why, it's the behind the scenes power struggle between the DA's office and the BPD and how each side wanted to control the investigation.

No one has come forward to say that any of that is untrue either. It was witnessed by too many people.

The Ramsey apologists can argue that they didn't kill JonBenet, but they did. They killed her through their own negligence.

They didn't use the alarm, check and make sure all doors and windows were locked, they paraded her around with makeup on (she was 6 years old!), Patsy dressed her in adult skimpy slutty attire and taught her to move sexually suggestively (no other children presented themselves like JonBenet) in pagents.

The Ramseys have lied and lied and lied about everything except the "getting on with our lives" part.

John Ramsey wanted to know "why" this happened not who did it.

JAR said he could forgive the killer without even knowing who the killer was (or did he?)

John said finding JB's killer would be his life's mission (he hasn't bothered to look).

John also said he would NEVER leave his family unprotected or in a dangerous position again (welcome to the infamous Atlanta "break in" where the gun safe was wide open and in plain site).

He said the "new house will have a state of the art alarm system", yet he never turned it on. (After swearing he would do everything to keep his family safe?)

The list goes on and on...the fake foundation set up in JonBenet's name, SHOES, etc.
 
Seeker said:
Fact the Ramsey's didn't "win" in their settlement against Thomas. It was a mutually agreed upon settlement between the publishers, ST, and the Ramsey's. It's a sealed agreement so nobody knows who "won" what.

You can logically conclude that because ST didn't have to retract a single word or admit he was wrong in any way that there was no "win" for the Ramseys against him. Perhaps nobody really "won" anything since it was settled secretely. If the Ramsey's had won anything it was whatever insurance money the publishers had on retainer for just such lawsuits, but they certainly got nothing from Thomas. Not even and admission that he was wrong (even though I never believed his theory to begin with) in his relaying how events happened. He never had to retract his saying he thinks Patsy's "good for it" comment or apologize to her for it. It was that particular comment that drove the Ramsey's to sue to begin with (see LKL archives). If they had "won" anything why not a retraction?
I draw my inferences from the fact that Steve Thomas now works as a carpenter and Lin Wood boasted to Darnay Hoffman about winning more from Ramsay suits than DH earned in his whole law career. If your doctor was sued for malpractice and his insurance company paid a settlement to avoid having to pay a HUGE settlement by risking going to trial, would you feel that your doctor was exonerated?

Seeker said:
Lou Smit says nothing about ST theory, but he doesn't discount the facts of the strife between the BPD and the DA's offices. He was there, he saw it firsthand too. In fact it was one of the main reasons he resigned.

The interesting and telling information in Thomas book isn't his theory of who killed JonBenet and why, it's the behind the scenes power struggle between the DA's office and the BPD and how each side wanted to control the investigation.

No one has come forward to say that any of that is untrue either. It was witnessed by too many people.
Right, and I'm not aware of anyone, including myself, who has challenged him on these claims regarding strife, but if you think that story--as opposed to the whodunnit of JBR--was the reason ST's book was #5 on NYT bestseller list, you are sadly mistaken. You're correct that Smit is too polite to explicitly state that ST's theory is a crock of s*** but his position on that theory is quite clear given that it contradicts ST's claims on so many different points.

Seeker said:
The Ramsey apologists can argue that they didn't kill JonBenet, but they did. They killed her through their own negligence.

They didn't use the alarm, check and make sure all doors and windows were locked, they paraded her around with makeup on (she was 6 years old!), Patsy dressed her in adult skimpy slutty attire and taught her to move sexually suggestively (no other children presented themselves like JonBenet) in pagents.

The Ramseys have lied and lied and lied about everything except the "getting on with our lives" part.

John Ramsey wanted to know "why" this happened not who did it.

JAR said he could forgive the killer without even knowing who the killer was (or did he?)

John said finding JB's killer would be his life's mission (he hasn't bothered to look).

John also said he would NEVER leave his family unprotected or in a dangerous position again (welcome to the infamous Atlanta "break in" where the gun safe was wide open and in plain site).

He said the "new house will have a state of the art alarm system", yet he never turned it on. (After swearing he would do everything to keep his family safe?)

The list goes on and on...the fake foundation set up in JonBenet's name, SHOES, etc.
I don't defend everything Ramseys have done, but there's a WORLD of difference between claiming contributory negligence due to failure to be more security-conscious or taking her to pageants as opposed to ACTIVELY killing her. Most posters here appear to believe one of the parents had an active role in the killing: I'm merely pointing out that the evidence, evaluated even-handedly, as we would hope any jury would, doesn't support that hypothesis.
 
aRnd2it said:
The above is just another perfect example or your twisted facts and lies manufactured on the Swamp forum. Why do you even try to pawn-off that crap here--nobody is stupid enough to buy into it. We know what the REAL audio test results were, and we know the complete, unedited, 911 tape has yet to be released to the public..
I've told you exactly where my claims come from and anyone can read Dave's theory in all it's gory details by going to Webbsleuths. Please tell me where I can find the REAL audio test results you allude to. Have these been laid out with the same care and precision that Dave has for his theory? Or are you merely restating that you once again are relying on that unreliable source, ST, as the source for this claim?


aRnd2it said:
We also know you wouldn't have the feintest idea what went on in the settlement between ST's publisher and the Ramseys. We DO know it didn't cost ST a single cent.
No, but I'm pretty damned sure YOU don't have the faintest idea either. And who is the source of your claim that it didn't cost ST a single cent?

"On a Web site, Thomas says all the money he makes from JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation is going to pay his legal bills. He also says the lawsuit has forced him to sell his house.

The Web site asks for donations."
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_913466,00.html

Now you MAY be correct that technically Steve didn't have to pay a penny towards the SETTLEMENT, but you can rest assured the SUIT cost him big time. Had Ramseys filed a groundless suit against him, he would have had grounds to countersue for their filing a frivilous lawsuit. Funny how that didn't happen.
 
Any more "Swamp" references by people toward other people as far as snide remarks will be quickly deleted. And if it continues, Time Outs could be in order.
 
DocWatson said:
I haven't posted at Jameson's forum in over two years. You have no idea who I am.
Wanna bet? I've been around a lot longer than just the last 2 years.

I draw my inferences from the fact that Steve Thomas now works as a carpenter and Lin Wood boasted to Darnay Hoffman about winning more from Ramsay suits than DH earned in his whole law career. If your doctor was sued for malpractice and his insurance company paid a settlement to avoid having to pay a HUGE settlement by risking going to trial, would you feel that your doctor was exonerated?

ST is not now a carpenter, but you wouldn't know that since you seem to have a lot of things mixed up. He hasn't worked as an independant carpenter for several years....more than 2 btw so you should've known this from posting at jams forum.

And just what in the world does Lin Wood crudely bragging to Darnay Hoffman about how much money he's made have anything to do with the ST lawsuit?

Right, and I'm not aware of anyone, including myself, who has challenged him on these claims regarding strife, but if you think that story--as opposed to the whodunnit of JBR--was the reason ST's book was #5 on NYT bestseller list, you are sadly mistaken. You're correct that Smit is too polite to explicitly state that ST's theory is a crock of s*** but his position on that theory is quite clear given that it contradicts ST's claims on so many different points.


I don't defend everything Ramseys have done, but there's a WORLD of difference between claiming contributory negligence due to failure to be more security-conscious or taking her to pageants as opposed to ACTIVELY killing her. Most posters here appear to believe one of the parents had an active role in the killing: I'm merely pointing out that the evidence, evaluated even-handedly, as we would hope any jury would, doesn't support that hypothesis.

Fact you have no idea what Lou Smitt's position is concerning ST theory. He's never said anything about it as far as I know.

Fact, more people were interested in the backround of the investigation than in who ST thought killed JB and why. There was more discussion and interest in why the DA's office seemed to thwart everything the BPD was trying to accomplish and exactly what was going on with the entire investigation.
The title of the book was the main selling point. JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation
 
aRnd2it said:
Thank you for posting another perfect example of how Lou Smit doesn't know what he's talking about.

Petechiae is caused when the person convulses during strangulation as they suffocate.

Please provide an authoritative source for this claim. This source, for example, says NOTHING about convulsions during ligature strangulation:
http://www.francesfarmersrevenge.com/stuff/serialkillers/2.htm

and I have examined several other detailed accounts of petachiae that likewise make no mention of the connection you assert.

Methinks you are blowing a lot of hot air. I accept that convulsions accompany concussions, but what you have not demonstrated to my satisfaction is the connection between petechiae and convulsions.
 
BeeBee said:
Any more "Swamp" references by people toward other people as far as snide remarks will be quickly deleted. And if it continues, Time Outs could be in order.
Thanks. I've learned from long experience that when people resort to ad hominem attacks, it's a clear sign they have run out of substantive arguments, IMHO.

So you needn't take this action to spare my feelings, but if you're just trying to keep these boards clean, fine by me.
 
Seeker said:
Wanna bet? I've been around a lot longer than just the last 2 years.
No betting required. What's preventing you from just telling me what you think my old hat over there was?



Seeker said:
ST is not now a carpenter, but you wouldn't know that since you seem to have a lot of things mixed up. He hasn't worked as an independant carpenter for several years....more than 2 btw so you should've known this from posting at jams forum.
Mea culpa. I confess I really don't spend a lot of time keeping up with ST. Acandyrose's site led me to this page: http://www.forstevethomas.com/stevehistory.htm. Apparently Steve is of so little consequence even to the groupies who mounted that site that they don't bother keeping it up to date: "Thomas is making his living at construction. He thinks about JonBenét Ramsey every day."


Seeker said:
And just what in the world does Lin Wood crudely bragging to Darnay Hoffman about how much money he's made have anything to do with the ST lawsuit?
It's just one tiny unimportant piece of evidence in the chain of reasoning I use to deduce in which direction money likely flowed in that settlement. I've never heard of a settlement in which someone sues for $65 million and then ends up paying the OTHER party to make the case go away, have you? Common sense suggests Steve's publisher paid the Ramseys: we simply just don't know how much.

Seeker said:
Fact you have no idea what Lou Smitt's position is concerning ST theory. He's never said anything about it as far as I know.
Fact is, anyone with a brain can use LOGICAL DEDUCTION to figure this out: that's what sleuthing is!!! You've apparently deduced based on unreliable sources such as ST and other very thin evidence that RDI. The Ramseys have never said anything about being killers of their own daughter, but that hasn't stopped you from drawing inferences right and left. So why are you so clueless in drawing the straightforward logical conclusion about what Smit thinks of ST's theory based on the facts you know?

Seeker said:
Fact, more people were interested in the backround of the investigation than in who ST thought killed JB and why. There was more discussion and interest in why the DA's office seemed to thwart everything the BPD was trying to accomplish and exactly what was going on with the entire investigation.
The title of the book was the main selling point. JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation
Gee, if this is a FACT, then someone needs to give Amazon.com a clue since this is how their own editorial review of Steve's book starts: "Let's answer the burning question straightaway: Steve Thomas believes that Patsy Ramsey is responsible for the death of her daughter, JonBenét, Christmas night 1996. As a key member of the team assigned to investigate the murder of the 6-year-old girl, the former detective knows the facts of the case as well as anyone, and the conclusion he draws is convincing and clearly presented. And, as it turns out, his theory about who may be guilty of the crime is just one of the shocking revelations in JonBenét: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation."
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312253265/102-9522838-8796137?v=glance

Note to self: when Seeker asserts something is a fact, get out a shovel...FAST!
 
From the Katie Couric interview:


In fact, Lou Smit’s theory is at odds with that of another former detective on the case, Steve Thomas, who contends that in a fit of rage Patsy Ramsey fatally struck her daughter on the head and later strangled her in an effort to cover up the crime.

Smit: “Guilt is not determined by Steve Thomas and innocence is not determined by Lou Smit. A jury does that.”

Sheriff’s detective Steve Ainsworth also worked with Steve Thomas during the JonBenet Ramsey investigation.

Couric: “Steve Thomas wrote a book about this, espousing his — his theory about what transpired that night.”

Detective Steve Ainsworth: “I heard that.”

Couric: “What do you think of him as a detective?”

Ainsworth: “The work he had done before this was all in narcotics. And that is a unique position, in that, your suspect is already identified. Then you go about getting the evidence to prove whatever violation you suspect him of. And — and in a homicide investigation or almost any other criminal investigation, it’s kind of putting the cart before the horse. You need to follow the evidence, and then develop the suspect, rather than the other way around.

“I think that he became — not necessarily over-zealous. But he had a difficulty in shaking that way of investigation. Because if you do it for a while, it’s very difficult to make that transition.”

Smit, who’s worked over 200 homicide cases, believes strangulation was the cause of death, not part of a staged cover-up. He says that his theory is reinforced by a medical condition called “petechiae,” found on JonBenet.

Couric: “She had something called ‘petechiae.’”

Smit:”Yes.”

Couric: “What is that, and why is it significant?”

Smit: “Petechiae is seen in strangulation cases. What happens is that when a person is strangled, the small blood vessels in the eye burst, causing little pinpoint hemorrhages in the eye. And these are called petechiae.

“JonBenet did have these pinpoint hemorrhages in her eyes. This only occurs when a person is being strangled while they’re still alive. You don’t get petechiae after a person is dead.”

Couric:”Why hit her on the head?”

Smit: “Well, again. The person who did this wanted JonBenet dead; no doubt about it. That blow to her head was extremely forceful. Took a lot of strength to make that particular injury. It is a large, displaced fracture to the right side of the head of JonBenet. It extends all the way from the back of her head, all the way to the front of her head.

“The person who did this wanted to brutally kill JonBenet. That was probably one of the last things that this person did, prior to throwing her in that room.”

The Boulder Police department asked Dr. Michael Doberson, a coroner, to study autopsy photographs of JonBenet. He believes there would have been much more internal bleeding inside the brain, if JonBenet had been struck first and strangled later.

“I would disagree with the theory of the Boulder police that — any of the changes that are seen at autopsy that are associated with the ligature strangulation are staged in any way,” says Dr. Doberson.

Detective Smit says whoever killed JonBenet left a lot of clues behind at the crime scene — fibers, hair and DNA — evidence that, Smit says, doesn’t match up with anyone in the Ramsey family.

Smit: “When you have an autopsy, one of the things that they do is, they do clip the fingernails. And in the fingernail clippings, they did find DNA. The primary source of DNA belonged to JonBenet. And that may have even been accountable for her trying to get the garrotte. But a secondary source was also found in both the samples from the right hand and the left hand.

“And foreign DNA is — foreign to JonBenet, but it can point a very strong finger at who may have done it.

“Also, they found DNA in JonBenet’s panties. She had bled during the sexual assault portion of the crime. Again, primary source, they know that’s JonBenet. It was her blood. But there is also a secondary source of DNA. Again, foreign. And it matches the DNA in the fingernails of her hands. This is now in three areas.”

Couric: “When you say foreign, it means not belonging to John, Patsy, or Burke Ramsey?”
Smit: “That’s right. The point of it is, is there is foreign DNA. There’s common foreign DNA. It is not John, it is not Patsy, it is not Burke.

“So, just to take this and say it’s degraded, and throw these beautiful clues away? You can’t do it. You have to plug these — these clues into the intruder side of the story as well. If they match the Ramseys, I’m sure that that would be very conclusive evidence that one of them did this. But you just can’t throw it away. You have to put that into the intruder side of the story. And that’s very strong evidence.”

Smit says a hair found on this blanket (refers to crime scene photo) covering JonBenet’s body following her murder, is another key piece of evidence.

Smit: “One of these hairs is gonna be very, very significant in this case at some time. It is a Caucasian hair found on the blanket that was on JonBenet. But whoever left it there, better have a very good reason for being in the basement. So far, it has not been identified by anyone. Could it just be a random hair? Sure. But could it be the killer? Yes.”

Couric: “This hair did not belong to any of the Ramseys.”

Smit: “That’s right. It has been tested against the control samples that were submitted by the Ramseys. And it does not match theirs.”

Couric: “There were reports that there were red fibers found on JonBenet that matched a sweater Patsy Ramsey was wearing.”

Smit: “Patsy Ramsey was sitting on the same blanket, probably, that night, when she changed JonBenet’s clothing.

“I’m not saying that you should throw this evidence away. You just have to give it the weight that it’s supposed to. And in court, if it ever would go to court, this would be argued back and forth.

“But as a detective looking at the case, that’s part of this that I’m looking at. Which would perhaps point towards the Ramseys. But again, the majority of the information that I see in this case points at the intruder. But I’m not gonna just disregard those fibers.”

Perhaps more chilling, according to Detective Smit, is the evidence he says JonBenet’s murderer didn’t leave behind: the paintbrush, the stun gun and six pages of a practice ransom note.

Smit: “People perceive the Ramseys to be guilty. Not because of evidence but because of perception.”

In day four of Katie Couric’s exclusive interview, detective Smit and others who have never spoken out about the Ramsey murder case, explain their theories about the ransom note. We should note, former detective Steve Thomas, Boulder Chief of Police Mark Beckner, and Boulder D.A. Mary Keenan, once again refused our interview requests.

CREDIT to acandyrose.....http://www.acandyrose.com/05042001lousmit-todayshow.htm
all days can be viewed on her site
 
In my opinion this is the most intelligent statement in print concerning the way we think about this case. It is a solid truth! Whether they are innocent or guilty the way most think of the Ramseys is based on perception formed by media releases.

Lou Smit...Smit: “People perceive the Ramseys to be guilty. Not because of evidence but because of perception.”
 
sissi said:
In my opinion this is the most intelligent statement in print concerning the way we think about this case. It is a solid truth! Whether they are innocent or guilty the way most think of the Ramseys is based on perception formed by media releases.

Lou Smit...Smit: “People perceive the Ramseys to be guilty. Not because of evidence but because of perception.”
Sissi, you rock! You go, girl! The instant people start focusing on the evidence they start seeing this case in a whole different light...
 
DocWatson said:
Thanks. I've learned from long experience that when people resort to ad hominem attacks, it's a clear sign they have run out of substantive arguments, IMHO.
No, were just sick of the propaganda.
 
DocWatson said:
I accept that convulsions accompany concussions, but what you have not demonstrated to my satisfaction is the connection between petechiae and convulsions.
Isn't it funny that you people can never do your own research when it comes to proving one of your case myths wrong. This is the first entry that comes up if you type the word into Google:

petechiae
Petechiae (puh-TEE-key-eye) are tiny little broken capillary blood vessels. Everyone has had them. A hard bout of coughing or vomiting can cause facial petechiae, especially around the eyes.

http://www.drhull.com/EncyMaster/P/petechiae.html

Now I suppose you want me to prove to you that the word "convulsion" includes "coughing and vomiting"... :loser:
 
sissi said:
Lou Smit: ?People perceive the Ramseys to be guilty. Not because of evidence but because of perception.?
This is exactly the kind of quote that is to be expected from a delusional old man who makes up his own evidence then claims it has value....like trying to explain away the pineapple with his comical "tupperware" theory. :confused:

Lou need to realize his limelight has gone out and he belongs in a retirement home learning how to play checkers. :boohoo:
 
aRnd2it said:
Isn't it funny that you people can never do your own research when it comes to proving one of your case myths wrong. This is the first entry that comes up if you type the word into Google:

petechiae
Petechiae (puh-TEE-key-eye) are tiny little broken capillary blood vessels. Everyone has had them. A hard bout of coughing or vomiting can cause facial petechiae, especially around the eyes.

http://www.drhull.com/EncyMaster/P/petechiae.html

Now I suppose you want me to prove to you that the word "convulsion" includes "coughing and vomiting"... :loser:

Yes, but if you kept reading, you'd find that petechiae are a signature feature of ligature strangulation! Moreover, if you'll read p. 3 of the autopsy report, you'll see NUMEROUS references to petechiae all over the neck above and below the ligature marks. Are there petechiae around the eyes too? Sure, but Occam's Razor suggests that when we find petechiae all over the area of the neck in a ligature strangulation and we have a choice between deciding whether these were caused by a head blow or strangulation, the LOGICAL thing to conclude is that strangulation is the culprit.

But of course, if strangulation IS the culprit, then we can rule out the idea that strangulation was staging used to cover up a head blow, as the petechiae would appear if and only if she were still alive. Of equal importance, there would have been far more internal or external bleeding from the head wound had it occurred before the strangulation. I realize this timing does in the "Patsy rage" scenario and this inconvenience causes too many to automatically reject my scenario in favor of theories that are far more fantastical from a physiological standpoint.

Is there a vanishingly small chance that these neck petechiae were caused by the head blow? Sure, but smart sleuths base their theories on the ODDS rather than twisting all the facts to fit their favorite theory on grounds that it "might" have happened in a certain way. After all, JBR "might" have been kidnapped by space aliens and murdered by them: you can't rule this out, nor can you prove it didn't happen that way, can you? I am perfectly willing to concede that Ramseys might have killed their daughter, but the weight of the evidence doesn't support this conclusion and in many ways, the space alien theory fits the evidence much better than any RDI theory.
 
DocWatson said:
Yes, but if you kept reading instead of just selectively pulling the evidence that fits your distorted view of the world, you'd find that petechiae are a signature feature of ligature strangulation!
but Occam's Razor suggests that when we find petechiae

Read a little farther and you'll find out that not only do convulsions cause petechiae of the face and eyes but even on the liver and other organs.

The fact is clear: Smit claimed the petechiae was caused by the strangulation when it could just as easily have been caused by convulsions resulting from the head blow. Smit once again doesn't know what he's talking about.
 

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