Forensic Astrology - RONNI CHASEN murder, Beverly Hills, CA 11/16/10

[Leomoon80]

Thanks Kaybug, it's always interesting to read other's opinions, in my view.
I like Majorie Orr for this too.

Here is what notes I made after reading your post......I may come back with more ideas later:

Venus is the ruler of the 2nd hs. and found in this house so anytype of connection to Venusian type of “things” may find favor here in one’s pronouncement of possible motives. Yes, Venus rules “the Arts”

As for gambling?……Well Sagittarius, is the Ruler of the 4th – an associated with gambling and gamblers, true enough.
But it’s a stretch to guesstimate also, I think because everytime one puts money into a movie production, that is a gamble too……

Not sure that I would agree that “Chasen as victim, takes the spot in the 7th” other then the Moon falls here, so perhaps as the Co-ruler of the event or quesited., yes then I’d agree the Moon represents M’s Chasen.

I don’t get that the Murderer himself is ruled by the ASC or Mercury however.
We’ll know soon enough who killed himself, as the LE said for certain, he WAS the murderer from what I read, (the shooter)

Perhaps the ASC rules instead, the “conceiver of the plan”…..not the shooter.

added : I very much enjoyed the MASON blog, as for his rounding up or down....on Midnight and noon charts for Horary (good idea here)....and seeing then, Algol on the MC. Seems to work well for him.
However, on our 12:22 actual timed event we see Hyades on the MC., equally ominous.

 

[Kaybug]

Is this information that you read based upon pulling straws out of a hat, or on some type of astrological symbolism? In otherwords, some sites simply do guesswork…..not based on anything that they speak of except hunches or intuition.

I too am versed well enough in astrology to avoid those types of sites and "so called professionals."

Kaybug
Pisces/Scorp/Scorp

 

[Leomoon80]

I too am versed well enough in astrology to avoid those types of sites and "so called professionals."

Kaybug
Pisces/Scorp/Scorp

I'm sure that's true, as the rest of my post suggested you picked a couple of good quality sites....Marjorie Orr, etc. She's been around a long time although I've not read her in many years.

However, I'm curious what is "Your" take is on this baffling case?

Would you then use derivative houses and read this event chart that way or would you agree that the Moon is representing Ronnie Chasen in the 7th, with Skat on the cusp of the 7th, the fixed star that speaks of a "Great Misfortune?"

There are no planets in the 8th, "other's assets" so the 2nd should be speaking more about property that is close to M's Chasen wouldn't you think so? I read she has a brother, but a sister would be Venus and a brother Mercury if we were looking at close family members in this chart.

:waitasec:

 

[Doodles]

"UPDATE: Police Have "Fairly Good Idea" Who Ordered Ronni Chasen's Hollywood Hit"

http://www.deadline.com/2010/12/update-cops-have-fairly-good-idea-who-ordered-ronni-chasens-hollywood-hit/

"A police source close to the investigation into the murder of Ronni Chasen says that police have a fairly good idea as to who employed a Hollywood hit man to shoot the longtime publicist. Although the alleged hit man killed himself last night before police could take him into custody, authorities are still making progress in their investigation of Chasen's murder. Several sources confirm that police have a working theory that Chasen's murder was related to a business deal gone bad."

 

[Kaybug]

I'm sure that's true, as the rest of my post suggested you picked a couple of good quality sites....Marjorie Orr, etc. She's been around a long time although I've not read her in many years.

However, I'm curious what is "Your" take is on this baffling case?

Would you then use derivative houses and read this event chart that way or would you agree that the Moon is representing Ronnie Chasen in the 7th, with Skat on the cusp of the 7th, the fixed star that speaks of a "Great Misfortune?"

There are no planets in the 8th, "other's assets" so the 2nd should be speaking more about property that is close to M's Chasen wouldn't you think so? I read she has a brother, but a sister would be Venus and a brother Mercury if we were looking at close family members in this chart.

:waitasec:

I am not as learned in Astrology as you are, your knowledge of the craft supersedes mine. I do well enough to make determinations about charts to satifsy my curiousity. When in need of more, I go to the experts.

I believe the Moon in the 7th represents Chasen. I also think the Asc represents the "conceiver of the plan" and not the shooter. Naturally this would be up for speculation depending on the astrologer you're talking too. Supposedly, we already know who the shooter is, I go with Marjorie Orr that the connection is with a family member. Perhaps by one of them putting the hit out on her. I would go with the feminine in this position.

To me Algol on the MC shows the pure violence of the death/murder and Lilith in the 7th with it's aspects showing the betrayal of trust.

And Uranus in the 8th house of sex, death and regeneration showing the sudden death. To me Lilith in the 7th also shows violent emotions towards people they are associated with.

Other than opinions stated by others, this is just my take and opinion.

Kaybug
Pisces/Scorp/Scorp

 

[Tuba]

Prime News reports that the man now suspected as hire for the hit had been boasting about a large payment and a ten thousand dollar payment he expected to receive in the days before the shooting that took Ms. Chasen's life, in public.

Mercury, ruler of the Ascendant, was the target and victim of violent Mars, ruler of homicide Eight in the event chart. In the paradigm of planetary protocols, Mars is reliably more powerful than Mercury. The two planets show together in the House of Endings. The event chart for the assault and taking of Kristi Cornwell on a public road found the same two planets in House 4. The Part of Death is in House 1, at 18:51 Virgo.

Our Sun is always the significator of any event. The Sun also ruled the hour of this murder, viz. horoscope. Here he is in the Sign of death in the House of commuting and short trips. The Sun, as noted in the chart that heads this thread, squares Neptune and Sun is disposited by Mars as well as by (Scorpio co-ruler) Pluto, also found in House 4 with the node. Neptune's involvement is described under the header chart and he is in sharp shooter talent quintile with Mars.

When one agent represents another, as in a hired hit, you see the mutual reception of two planets, one taking the place of the other as they move in and out of their natural Signs. Uranus, of course, belongs in Aquarius and Neptune belongs in Pisces. The police are assessing this as a business arrangement gone bad with money owed. The chart agrees. Part of Fortune is critical in Taurus, Venus is reluctant in the House of money, retrograde and Saturn refuses there.

We are not shocked to see the critical 9° of Aquarius and Leo here, as this was an ambush: the Sun rules the 12th House of ambush, bushwhack and assassination. Ruler of House 7 in House 6 and vice versa, as explained under the original chart, the problem came out of a client situation. Because of Neptune's presence, this client may have been an adept in film and filming, music or the dance. If you turn the wheel to feature a client, House 6, you will see that expectations met with zero success.

As Leomoon80 correctly instructs, House 4 is that of endings. Kristi Cornwell was not the victim of her family.

*
*

 

[IWannaKnow]

Do you think that a person who considered RC "family" - but they were not actually related, could count? A long term business acquaintance who thought their relationship was closer than it actually was? Could that fit the charts for "family"?

 

[Doodles]

Tuba, who is Kristi Cornwell? Did you mean Ronni Chasen?

After checking some of the tabloid sites for new info, I think they are randomly taking nouns and perhaps one fact from other tabloid stories and exercising their creativity in writing new stories about the crime.

The only article of note is about Ronni Chasen's brother, screenwriter Larry Cohen, requesting to be appointed as special administrator of Chasen's estate, primarily to enable her business to continue without interruption and to locate a 2006 will. "Cohen is one of three living executors nominated in Chasen's 1994 will", so this is just business and nothing to do with the crime. He was supposed to meet with a judge this morning, but I have not located more about this.
EXCLUSIVE: The Fate Of Ronni Chasen's Empire In Hands Of Judge
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2010/12/exclusive-fate-ronni-chasens-empire-hands-judge

 

[Tuba]

I was drawing a comparison between WS missing person Kristi Cornwell, whose assault on Jones Ck. Rd. also featured Mercury conjunct Mars in House 4 and Ronni Chasen's violent end. Perhaps you have not followed the case of the missing Blairsville, Georgia woman, Kristi Cornwell. She was savagely assaulted in August of 2009 and a man courting her overheard the whole crime on the cell phone, which was open.

 

[Doodles]

Thanks, Tuba. I thought you might be referring to another case, but I get so lost in the explanations because of my lack of knowledge of astrology. I only get the general gist and a few points about what is being said.

Now I remember Kristi Cornwell. She was in the news constantly at the time.

Someone in this group has a mind like a steel sieve. :innocent:

 

[Tuba]

I think if you copy the charts that are done in the various threads or, even more indelibly, draw them out for yourself, you will soon see exactly what is meant by terms like Mercury conjunct Mars in the House of endings (H. 4).

Please do not be afraid to ask what a phrase means.

 

[FifthEssence]

Geezezzzz, he was referred to as a 'suspect' in multiple main stream media outlet articles and now police say he was a person of interest only and give the reason why:

We're gonna have to wait this one out.
Beings Ronni C. was a high profile Entertainment industry personality, we can expect the 'latest dish' type news outlets to release add'l speculative articles to stimulate readership and $$$. Be selective with the links you bring to our Forum.
Thank you.




http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-ronni-chasen-20101204,0,5993621.story
Man who killed himself may not have connection to Ronni Chasen slaying.
Beverly Hills police wanted to question Harold Martin Smith because a tipster called "America's Most Wanted" saying that the ex-convict had claimed involvement. But police say it's unclear if that's true.

By Harriet Ryan and Andrew Blankstein
December 4, 2010

But on Friday the Beverly Hills Police Department, whose officers were seeking to question Smith when he shot himself, said it was possible there was no connection at all.
"At this time, it is unknown if this individual was involved in the Chasen homicide," department spokesman Lt. Tony Lee said in a statement.

He referred to Smith, 43, as a "person of interest" rather than a suspect and said undercover officers were following a tip from the Fox program "America's Most Wanted" when they approached him.
John Walsh, the host of "America's Most Wanted," said a man phoned the show's tip hotline three days after a Nov. 20 program that included a segment on Chasen's death. The man told an operator that someone he knew was claiming involvement in the crime.

"He said, 'I think I know this guy. Someone has been bragging about it or talking about it and this is a dangerous guy and I'm afraid,' " Walsh said. He told an operator that he was too frightened to provide Smith's address.

 

[Doodles]

"Ronni Chasen shot in botched robbery; gunman acted alone, police say [Updated]"

December 8, 2010 | 3:21 pm

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/12/ronni-chasen-shot-in-botched-robbery-gunman-acted-alone-police-say.html

“The gun used to shoot Ms. Chasen is the same gun used by Mr. Harold Martin Smith to commit suicide,” Snowden said. “We believe Mr. Smith acted alone. We don’t believe it is a professional hit.”

 

[Leomoon80]

"Ronni Chasen shot in botched robbery; gunman acted alone, police say [Updated]"

December 8, 2010 | 3:21 pm

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/12/ronni-chasen-shot-in-botched-robbery-gunman-acted-alone-police-say.html

“The gun used to shoot Ms. Chasen is the same gun used by Mr. Harold Martin Smith to commit suicide,” Snowden said. “We believe Mr. Smith acted alone. We don’t believe it is a professional hit.”

Although I want to shout "NO....this defies all logic"....I am having second thoughts and pause over this Event chart.

We see no planets above the horizon, other then in the shooter's house that of the 7th, whose Ruler is Pisces , 8Pisces is conjunct fixed star "Skat" for a great misfortune.
The 9th contains the Part of Fortune....and it is quincunx to Mercury usually a health aspect which may suggest a mental issue for him.
Riding a bicycle to do a drive by shooting for the express purpose of a robbery does sound a bit whacko to me...:waitasec:

If we examine a little more closely the 7th house planets to describe the shooter, we see that the Moon is in a degree of self-undoing (22 deg.46minutes) Pisces, and it conjuncts Jupiter (over the top behaviors perhaps)for Jupiter is is a ruler of Pisces from the olden days, so strong here, but also rx (backward)
at 23 degrees 30'rx Pisces., so very close. The "kicker" is that these also conjunct Uranus at 26Pisces. Uranus as we know can often depict a whack job person. Completely bizzaro. Even random can now make sense. Although again, my logic still says, "what?".......on a bicycle and takes nothing?

This quincunx Mercury, ruler of the chart to the POF - is conjunct Mars in the 4th of the "accident" or the robbery gone amok....(the crashing Mercedes)

I see it was in the hour of the Sun - and the Sun (the bicycle) was in the 3rd house the mode of transportation.

Day Ruler Moon going into Mars?..........could be just that strange.

I have tried to locate the Birthdate for the shooter - Mr. Harold Martin Smith, and thought since he was a lifelong
career (in and out of jail), thief, we'd have this data somewhere.

p.s. it's certainly Okay to disagree! I'm just as perplexed as everyone else is about this case.

 

[Leomoon80]

Okay, I now rescind my past post.....too wierd to contemplate as it simply makes no sense .
Trying to find the Hit man in this chart, because my better sense tells me this WAS a hit for $10,000 the amount he told a neighbor he was coming into.

The Ruler of the chart is in the 4th (Mercury) conjunct Mars. Mercury it seems to me, denotes a planned attack. A hit.
The 3rd house of siblings, is ruled by Mars, and Mercury does conj. Mars.

No one is talking siblings......so we'll forget that connection to this chart.....
forget I mentioned it. :angel:

Pluto conjunct the North Node and both conj. the 5th house cusp which is on FACIES a star which depicts "ruthless behavior"....The 5th can be a lover or a casual affair gone bad. That's another idea.

What else can the 5th depict in this chart? Any other ideas here,
I'm lost.

The Ascendent is conjunct fixed star "THUBAN" and that is why I really think it was a hit as much as I'd like to find the planets to agree with the LE I still find myself leaning towards it's a Hit .

Saturn in the 2nd house of money, (cold hard cash) is also in a critical degree and would restrict (held back)....and it's conjunct Venus in Libra. Venus is also about money. Venus is rx (not given yet)

According to Ptolemy the bright stars are like Saturn and Mars. Draco gives an artistic and emotional but somber nature, a penetrating and analytical mind, much travel and many friends, but danger of robbery and accidental poisoning. It gives craft, ingenuity, and valor. The Ancients said that when a comet was here, poison was scattered over the world.

 

[Paulette]

I thought it was Smith a few days ago. Ronnie had "Smith" 22 Libra, which sextiles "Mexico" 22:43 Leo, (the country or people, etc.) and "Honeycutt" 22:42 Leo,(your piece of the pie, money, wealth,).

"Smith" had progressed to 10 Scorpio, and it was transiting 10:16 Scorpio in the Murder chart.

I'm not discounting "Mexico". It had progressed in her natal chart to 6:04 Virgo.

She has "Nemesis" (her undoing or enemy) natally 5:23 Virgo. "Incidentia" (an incident) was transiting 5:45 Virgo. If you run the Murder chart for 12:20 am, the Ascendant is 6 Virgo. This would be about the time she was making her last phone call, recorded at 12:22 am. Was she driving slower - distracted by the phone call - giving Smith a chance to approach the car.

"Mexico" was transiting 19:36 Scorpio, atop her progressed Venus 19:54 Scorpio. Since she wasn't a young girl, I equate her Venus to art or money.

'Incidentia" had progressed to 17:55 Aquarius, exactly conjunt her progressed Ceres 17:55 Aquarius. (I'd love to see his chart - he probably has a link to this Incidentia & Ceres).

Her Mercury had progressed to 10:01 Sagitarius, one minute into the 10th degree!

Smith wasn't a Mexican, he was a Black man, described by the LA Times as a hit man. I hope this isn't the end of the investigation. Just because the gun is a match for the one he killed himself with. What happened to the shell casings (if there were any) did he catch them in a bag? Why would he care is he was just a robber?

 

[Tuba]

I wasn't biting off on the bike riding bandit but if she was engaged in a call at the time, her speed made have allowed him to approach. Your information is appreciated. Since the shots were heard over several blocks, Smith would be brazen to shoot from a bike as he pursued a car and something of a gymnast. Also, we do have to remember that the tip to AMW was due to Smith's boasting about a pay-off. If this was a failed robbery, there would be no $10,000 packet. The coincidence of the boast and the shooting murder by the same man is too much for me.

 

[Doodles]

I have not been able to locate a transcript of the statements made at the press conference, and print and broadcast media are using different parts of the statements. I have heard enough and read enough to know the LA Times left some things out.

Things are not adding up, especially with previous statements about the gun (official or leaks?). This is still an open investigation, and more information should be forthcoming.

If anyone locates a transcript or a full video of the press conference, it would be helpful. Thanks.

 

[Doodles]

About the shell casings:

'However, what is surprising is that Smith had the presence of mind to cover up his involvement in the crime because, Publicker noted, "there were no shell casings found at the scene of the crime."'

http://www.deadline.com/2010/12/police-say-ronie-chasen-was-victim-of-a-random-act-of-violence-by-a-desperate-robber-americas-most-wanted-help-solve-murder/

Hmmmmm... Luckily the shell casings did not roll away and were easily found by the assailant at 12:30 a.m. though he may have left his bicycle at the scene. BTW, not all guns eject the shell casings.

 

[Leomoon80]

A Burglary gone bad is what they called it. Not a Hit.

I've added one Asteroid, VERITAS for "truth" and it conjuncts Hamal
and is rx in the 12th house.



Here is the time that this was announced, I found on this link:

Police Confirm Smith's Suicide Weapon Was Used in Chasen Murder, Call Her Death 'a robbery gone wrong'
http://www.wikio.com/info/police-confirm-smith-suicide-weapon-wrong-234050304


Ronni Chasen (AP Photo/Chasen and Company) The Beverly Hills Police Department held a press conference at 3 this afternoon to clarify newly released information that links the gun used in the shooting death of Ronni Chasen and the one used in the suicide of person of interest Harold Smith . BHPD's Chief David Snowden detailed the chain of events that led to their arrival at the Harvey Apartments...

12/08/2010 - 3:30 PM


Veritas (Asteroid) 7TAU 42min. rx - in hidden 12th house and is Conjunct to HAMAL at 7Taurus 40minutes. Veritas is 7Taurus 48min. (rx)

from Anne Wright's site: "Constellation of Words

Hamal is A yellow star situated in the forehead of the Ram and commonly known as the ram's Following Horn. From Al Hamal, the Sheep. Symbolically called the Death Wound and often incorrectly named El Nath. [Robson*, p.170

Influences: According to Ptolemy it is of the nature of Mars and Saturn; and, to Alvidas, of Venus and Saturn. It causes violence brutishness, cruelty and premeditated crime. [Robson*, p.170.]

Here is the chart for this announcement:
Note: Moon is 25Capricorn, in the 9th house of LE or Official news.

Make of it what you will......:waitasec:

I think I know how I'll be looking at this chart.

Consider too, that the Ruler of the Moon in Capricorn is Saturn found in it's sign of Exaltation in the House that Rules Decision making, the 6th house.The Vertex is also square the Moon and Trine to Neptune, for a fated event.

Venus, the ruler of this chart with the Taurus Ascendent, is opposed to Veritas (truth) in the 12th house.

The 2nd house of finances has the POF in the sign ruled by Mercury.
The POF is opposed to Mars and square to Neptune & Uranus.
It appears this was a financial decision by the LE "Case Closed"....or at least that is my opinion from the looks of this chart . A dead man can't talk, and there are no real leads.

There were 3 people tonight on TV on HLN Show, one from AMW, one a Private Detective and the 3rd the hostess.
No one mentioned that $10k supposedly told to the neighbor who called AMW with the tip.
Although AMW said, "Yes, it was our tip", ........they sided with the LE saying, "they must have more info"

Not one soul mentioned that $10,000 payoff the man said he expected to get.


I'd love to hear other's views, even if they differ from my own.
I can easily change my mind IF shown the error of my thinking astrologically.
Not that I have an abundance of mutable signs except for Venus in Sag, but I'm willing to if it makes sense to do so.