Forensic evidence

[JMO8778]

So I would suggest to you that its not, quoting you, hard to know what for sure was going on, actually proving something is a different ball game?


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I thought Solace answered quite well on all of it.Only thing I would add here is JB had injuries (yes,I think she had a staged one that night) that can't be proven definitively to be either from douching or from sexual abuse alone,and they could be from both.
On the one hand we have LHP talking about the bathroom screaming going on,the friends concerned about the corporal cleaning/abuse;otoh,JR's shirt fibers,the staged sexual assault,him trying to account for his underwear fibers in her room,and the pics of JB found in the basement(which it seems most ppl forget about)..and the fact there has to be probable cause for the searches that were done.
One more thing is PR was questioned about the Santa suit,and JB saying she was going to get an after Christmas visit from Santa.In DOI,JR calls himself 'Santa',in reference to him getting Patsy's bike.ie-'Santa had just one more thing to do..' (DOI,p. 2).What was the 'visit' supposed to be about,and when was 'after Christmas'? When they got back from MI? That does not necessarily mean her death was planned,but something was,in ref. to the visit after Christmas.

 

[coloradokares]

Thanks for the supporteveryone!! UK what we actually know is Jon Benet died a horrible deah, there was no evidence that leads realistically to an intruder that was not bordering on defying comprehension. I think this is not an unsolved murder, rather not prosecuted. Shame on us, us being the we the people surrounding Boulder. There should have been such an outcry..we are saying not again on the Midyette case....Lacey shall not get a free pass on that one so easy. All I seek is JUSTICE for Jon Benet.

 

[JMO8778]

Thanks for the supporteveryone!! UK what we actually know is Jon Benet died a horrible deah, there was no evidence that leads realistically to an intruder that was not bordering on defying comprehension. I think this is not an unsolved murder, rather not prosecuted. Shame on us, us being the we the people surrounding Boulder. There should have been such an outcry..we are saying not again on the Midyette case....Lacey shall not get a free pass on that one so easy. All I seek is JUSTICE for Jon Benet.

You're welcome,I think it's just a matter of putting 2 and 2 together,it's more than just hearsay..now when I look back at Thomas's book,I can see that he had good reason to believe what he did,without quoting his sources of course..that wouldn't be right.
Right on,I certainly hope justice is served in the Midyette case.

 

[Dru]

I thought Solace answered quite well on all of it.Only thing I would add here is JB had injuries (yes,I think she had a staged one that night) that can't be proven definitively to be either from douching or from sexual abuse alone,and they could be from both.
On the one hand we have LHP talking about the bathroom screaming going on,the friends concerned about the corporal cleaning/abuse;otoh,JR's shirt fibers,the staged sexual assault,him trying to account for his underwear fibers in her room,and the pics of JB found in the basement(which it seems most ppl forget about)..and the fact there has to be probable cause for the searches that were done.
One more thing is PR was questioned about the Santa suit,and JB saying she was going to get an after Christmas visit from Santa.In DOI,JR calls himself 'Santa',in reference to him getting Patsy's bike.ie-'Santa had just one more thing to do..' (DOI,p. 2).What was the 'visit' supposed to be about,and when was 'after Christmas'? When they got back from MI? That does not necessarily mean her death was planned,but something was,in ref. to the visit after Christmas.

One thing I've considered is whether the Santa visit might be a red herring, in a manner of speaking.

JBR didn't say exactly when Santa was coming, just "after Christmas," right?

IMO, this could be accounted for one of two ways:

One, the family in Michigan had little gifts for the children, and the adults were planning to pretend that "Santa" had come again, possibly to compensate the children for having to leave home, and their new toys, the day after Christmas for a somewhat lengthy trip.

The other is that at Disney World, "Santa" may be seen in various places right through Christmas until New Year's Eve. I don't know if the same is true on the Disney Red Boat the R's were taking the cruise on, but it wouldn't surprise me at all, and further it wouldn't surprise me for a six-year-old to mistake "You'll get to see Santa again after Christmas" for "Santa's coming to visit me after Christmas."

And the secret? Well, as a mom myself, there are times when I've told my kids, "Now, don't tell your friends you get to do X, because they may not be allowed to, and you don't want to upset them." This could be anything from a movie their younger cousins aren't going to be allowed to see, to a church activity that our neighbors of a different religion won't be participating in. So I could see PR saying, "Now, don't go bragging that you get to see Santa again, because your friends probably won't get to."

Of course, if the R's know there's an innocent explanation for the "Santa" remark, why not admit it?

Easy. Because thanks to that remark and the silly Santa bear, an amazingly large number of people believe that a sicko pedophile dressed as Jolly Old St. Nicholas broke into the R's home, fed the happy child pineapple, and proceeded to wait around a couple of hours before killing her, writing the note, staging the crime scene and then re-staging it, before squeezing his red and white self unobtrusively out a basement window and vanishing into the night.

Ridiculous--but the R's aren't about to say, Oh, we know what JBR meant when she said she'd see Santa after Christmas, are they? Instead, this becomes another "amazing" thing, like all the dishes that weren't theirs, and the footprint that wasn't BR's despite his having a pair of those boots, and the fact that the intruder evidently replaced everything in their house with an almost, but not quite, exact replica, and left it all out of place, besides. (Sarcasm off.)

 

[Solace]

One thing I've considered is whether the Santa visit might be a red herring, in a manner of speaking.

JBR didn't say exactly when Santa was coming, just "after Christmas," right?

IMO, this could be accounted for one of two ways:

One, the family in Michigan had little gifts for the children, and the adults were planning to pretend that "Santa" had come again, possibly to compensate the children for having to leave home, and their new toys, the day after Christmas for a somewhat lengthy trip.

The other is that at Disney World, "Santa" may be seen in various places right through Christmas until New Year's Eve. I don't know if the same is true on the Disney Red Boat the R's were taking the cruise on, but it wouldn't surprise me at all, and further it wouldn't surprise me for a six-year-old to mistake "You'll get to see Santa again after Christmas" for "Santa's coming to visit me after Christmas."

And the secret? Well, as a mom myself, there are times when I've told my kids, "Now, don't tell your friends you get to do X, because they may not be allowed to, and you don't want to upset them." This could be anything from a movie their younger cousins aren't going to be allowed to see, to a church activity that our neighbors of a different religion won't be participating in. So I could see PR saying, "Now, don't go bragging that you get to see Santa again, because your friends probably won't get to."

Of course, if the R's know there's an innocent explanation for the "Santa" remark, why not admit it?

Easy. Because thanks to that remark and the silly Santa bear, an amazingly large number of people believe that a sicko pedophile dressed as Jolly Old St. Nicholas broke into the R's home, fed the happy child pineapple, and proceeded to wait around a couple of hours before killing her, writing the note, staging the crime scene and then re-staging it, before squeezing his red and white self unobtrusively out a basement window and vanishing into the night.

Ridiculous--but the R's aren't about to say, Oh, we know what JBR meant when she said she'd see Santa after Christmas, are they? Instead, this becomes another "amazing" thing, like all the dishes that weren't theirs, and the footprint that wasn't BR's despite his having a pair of those boots, and the fact that the intruder evidently replaced everything in their house with an almost, but not quite, exact replica, and left it all out of place, besides. (Sarcasm off.)

I hear ya. Have a nice weekend all.

 

[UKGuy]

Thanks for the supporteveryone!! UK what we actually know is Jon Benet died a horrible deah, there was no evidence that leads realistically to an intruder that was not bordering on defying comprehension. I think this is not an unsolved murder, rather not prosecuted. Shame on us, us being the we the people surrounding Boulder. There should have been such an outcry..we are saying not again on the Midyette case....Lacey shall not get a free pass on that one so easy. All I seek is JUSTICE for Jon Benet.

coloradokares,

I think this is not an unsolved murder, rather not prosecuted.

I agree, it shows just how status and wealth can purchase and corrupt the course of justice.

For an off topic but related subject check out Conrad Black's current trial where it is alleged billionaires such as Michael Bloomberg, Henry Kravis, Donald Trump were among guests to his private parties, hosted at lavish expense but charged to the company accounts. Its also alleged he arranged secret non-compete clauses into company sell-offs, then trousering the proceeds, all this an much more, relieving the shareholders of Hollinger International and due dividends.


.

 

[Ames]

One thing I've considered is whether the Santa visit might be a red herring, in a manner of speaking.

JBR didn't say exactly when Santa was coming, just "after Christmas," right?

IMO, this could be accounted for one of two ways:

One, the family in Michigan had little gifts for the children, and the adults were planning to pretend that "Santa" had come again, possibly to compensate the children for having to leave home, and their new toys, the day after Christmas for a somewhat lengthy trip.

The other is that at Disney World, "Santa" may be seen in various places right through Christmas until New Year's Eve. I don't know if the same is true on the Disney Red Boat the R's were taking the cruise on, but it wouldn't surprise me at all, and further it wouldn't surprise me for a six-year-old to mistake "You'll get to see Santa again after Christmas" for "Santa's coming to visit me after Christmas."

And the secret? Well, as a mom myself, there are times when I've told my kids, "Now, don't tell your friends you get to do X, because they may not be allowed to, and you don't want to upset them." This could be anything from a movie their younger cousins aren't going to be allowed to see, to a church activity that our neighbors of a different religion won't be participating in. So I could see PR saying, "Now, don't go bragging that you get to see Santa again, because your friends probably won't get to."

Of course, if the R's know there's an innocent explanation for the "Santa" remark, why not admit it?

Easy. Because thanks to that remark and the silly Santa bear, an amazingly large number of people believe that a sicko pedophile dressed as Jolly Old St. Nicholas broke into the R's home, fed the happy child pineapple, and proceeded to wait around a couple of hours before killing her, writing the note, staging the crime scene and then re-staging it, before squeezing his red and white self unobtrusively out a basement window and vanishing into the night.

Ridiculous--but the R's aren't about to say, Oh, we know what JBR meant when she said she'd see Santa after Christmas, are they? Instead, this becomes another "amazing" thing, like all the dishes that weren't theirs, and the footprint that wasn't BR's despite his having a pair of those boots, and the fact that the intruder evidently replaced everything in their house with an almost, but not quite, exact replica, and left it all out of place, besides. (Sarcasm off.)

This makes sense...we have had to do this with our own children...we had to leave Christmas Day for a trip.

 

[coloradokares]

coloradokares,



I agree, it shows just how status and wealth can purchase and corrupt the course of justice.

For an off topic but related subject check out Conrad Black's current trial where it is alleged billionaires such as Michael Bloomberg, Henry Kravis, Donald Trump were among guests to his private parties, hosted at lavish expense but charged to the company accounts. Its also alleged he arranged secret non-compete clauses into company sell-offs, then trousering the proceeds, all this an much more, relieving the shareholders of Hollinger International and due dividends.


.

Makest easier to be a regular person ICK!!

 

[Dru]

This makes sense...we have had to do this with our own children...we had to leave Christmas Day for a trip.

The famous Ames agreed with something I said! I feel so honored!

 

[JMO8778]

One thing I've considered is whether the Santa visit might be a red herring, in a manner of speaking.

JBR didn't say exactly when Santa was coming, just "after Christmas," right?

IMO, this could be accounted for one of two ways:

One, the family in Michigan had little gifts for the children, and the adults were planning to pretend that "Santa" had come again, possibly to compensate the children for having to leave home, and their new toys, the day after Christmas for a somewhat lengthy trip.

The other is that at Disney World, "Santa" may be seen in various places right through Christmas until New Year's Eve. I don't know if the same is true on the Disney Red Boat the R's were taking the cruise on, but it wouldn't surprise me at all, and further it wouldn't surprise me for a six-year-old to mistake "You'll get to see Santa again after Christmas" for "Santa's coming to visit me after Christmas."

And the secret? Well, as a mom myself, there are times when I've told my kids, "Now, don't tell your friends you get to do X, because they may not be allowed to, and you don't want to upset them." This could be anything from a movie their younger cousins aren't going to be allowed to see, to a church activity that our neighbors of a different religion won't be participating in. So I could see PR saying, "Now, don't go bragging that you get to see Santa again, because your friends probably won't get to."

Of course, if the R's know there's an innocent explanation for the "Santa" remark, why not admit it?

Easy. Because thanks to that remark and the silly Santa bear, an amazingly large number of people believe that a sicko pedophile dressed as Jolly Old St. Nicholas broke into the R's home, fed the happy child pineapple, and proceeded to wait around a couple of hours before killing her, writing the note, staging the crime scene and then re-staging it, before squeezing his red and white self unobtrusively out a basement window and vanishing into the night.

Ridiculous--but the R's aren't about to say, Oh, we know what JBR meant when she said she'd see Santa after Christmas, are they? Instead, this becomes another "amazing" thing, like all the dishes that weren't theirs, and the footprint that wasn't BR's despite his having a pair of those boots, and the fact that the intruder evidently replaced everything in their house with an almost, but not quite, exact replica, and left it all out of place, besides. (Sarcasm off.)

good point,it's the way (I saw the movie PMPT,so maybe they dramatized it),it was said..like it was some really hush, hush top secret thing,so it must be something sinister,or at least that's the way it was portrayed.

 

[Ames]

The famous Ames agreed with something I said! I feel so honored!

You are WAY TOO FUNNY!! "The famous Ames"....LOL :laugh:

 

[Ames]

One thing I've considered is whether the Santa visit might be a red herring, in a manner of speaking.

JBR didn't say exactly when Santa was coming, just "after Christmas," right?

IMO, this could be accounted for one of two ways:

One, the family in Michigan had little gifts for the children, and the adults were planning to pretend that "Santa" had come again, possibly to compensate the children for having to leave home, and their new toys, the day after Christmas for a somewhat lengthy trip.

The other is that at Disney World, "Santa" may be seen in various places right through Christmas until New Year's Eve. I don't know if the same is true on the Disney Red Boat the R's were taking the cruise on, but it wouldn't surprise me at all, and further it wouldn't surprise me for a six-year-old to mistake "You'll get to see Santa again after Christmas" for "Santa's coming to visit me after Christmas."

And the secret? Well, as a mom myself, there are times when I've told my kids, "Now, don't tell your friends you get to do X, because they may not be allowed to, and you don't want to upset them." This could be anything from a movie their younger cousins aren't going to be allowed to see, to a church activity that our neighbors of a different religion won't be participating in. So I could see PR saying, "Now, don't go bragging that you get to see Santa again, because your friends probably won't get to."

Of course, if the R's know there's an innocent explanation for the "Santa" remark, why not admit it?

Easy. Because thanks to that remark and the silly Santa bear, an amazingly large number of people believe that a sicko pedophile dressed as Jolly Old St. Nicholas broke into the R's home, fed the happy child pineapple, and proceeded to wait around a couple of hours before killing her, writing the note, staging the crime scene and then re-staging it, before squeezing his red and white self unobtrusively out a basement window and vanishing into the night.

Ridiculous--but the R's aren't about to say, Oh, we know what JBR meant when she said she'd see Santa after Christmas, are they? Instead, this becomes another "amazing" thing, like all the dishes that weren't theirs, and the footprint that wasn't BR's despite his having a pair of those boots, and the fact that the intruder evidently replaced everything in their house with an almost, but not quite, exact replica, and left it all out of place, besides. (Sarcasm off.)

DRU...actually I agree with your whole post. I believe thats exactly what JB meant when she said that she was going to get a secret visit from Santa.. "Santa" probably was going to visit JB and Burke in Michigan. I just don't believe that the person that killed JB...the "invisible intruder"....would have TOLD her that she was going to get a visit from Santa after Christmas, and to keep it secret. He would have just came in and killed her...and not have risked her NOT telling her parents about the "santa" visit. Afterall she WAS only six....I don't know of any six year old that can keep a secret.

 

[JMO8778]

DRU...actually I agree with your whole post. I believe thats exactly what JB meant when she said that she was going to get a secret visit from Santa.. "Santa" probably was going to visit JB and Burke in Michigan. I just don't believe that the person that killed JB...the "invisible intruder"....would have TOLD her that she was going to get a visit from Santa after Christmas, and to keep it secret. He would have just came in and killed her...and not have risked her NOT telling her parents about the "santa" visit. Afterall she WAS only six....I don't know of any six year old that can keep a secret.

not that it was an intruder,I was thinking maybe JR..

 

[Ames]

not that it was an intruder,I was thinking maybe JR..

Yes, I have heard that theory before..and it could have been JR dressed as santa, telling her that, because they were planning on letting Santa come again in Michigan. We did that one year, we had "santa" at our house, and then went to my in-laws..and "Santa" came there too.

 

[Eagle1]

One thing I've considered is whether the Santa visit might be a red herring, in a manner of speaking..........JBR didn't say exactly when Santa was coming, just "after Christmas," right?..................

Instead, this becomes another "amazing" thing, like all the dishes that weren't theirs, and the footprint that wasn't BR's despite his having a pair of those boots...........
and the fact that the intruder evidently replaced everything in their house with an almost, but not quite, exact replica, ......and left it all out of place, besides. (Sarcasm off.)

You had some good ideas there about the secret visit, and the intruder replacing nearly everything, which I took the liberty of separating a little for emphasis.

However, there's the torn up Christmas Card in JonBenet's waste basket, we're so far assuming was from Santa, as far as I know.

Having learned a lot more about pagans at another forum, I need to share a small sample.

Someone speculated that Santa may have molested JBR , having excused himself from the party to allegedly go to the bathroom and she may have followed him, or, didn't one of the books state that she took him on a tour of the basement?) and that she no longer liked him after such a rude surprise, and later tore up the card.

The post was pretty graphic. I can't remember if we're allowed to mention other forums so you'll all have to find it if interested. Actually, maybe that would explain Janet McReynolds going to the back hallways and allegedly finding JonBenet sitting alone on the steps crying that she didn't feel pretty. (We have no proof whatsoever that ONLY the R's were in the house, and

PR was heavily sedated, not in any shape to go creative with alibi's, when she told Pam (Griffin?) "THEY've killed my baby." At that other forum it's also being pointed out that the McSantas belonged to a "Unity" church in which they do rituals as Comparative Religions education. Jesse McReynolds' wife wrote one. (Which reminds me, whoever said all religions are equal, contrary to what was taught by the one she was raised in, was Loyalty to Christ, the only one who died for us, the issue? Naturally the remaining other religions would want us to think all are equal, as always, since Christianity began, but that's only under the present human law, right?)

To be fair, taking a bird's eye view of this whole case after learning a lot more about Boulder's pagans elsewhere, it seems the R's were just way too easy-going, with their beliefs, friends, children, and the housekeeper who was so presumptuous to criticize them when the house was such a mess. They simply trusted too much and would go along with whatever.

I doubt they were really asleep while a party or ritual was being held in their house, probably were somehow involved, and one side of the bed didn't look slept in, but we have no absolute proof either way. Obviously they felt guilty about allowing as much as they did, if not about their having a more active part in it.

At the party on the 23rd they were also distracted and it was Janet McReynolds who noted JonBenet wasn't in the room. Maybe because McSanta wasn't either?

Not accusing him, just exercising a right to think and raise questions, what we're here for. I know, I have at one time said he wouldn't likely climb stairs, with his heart problem, temporarily forgot that a basement tour was mentioned, in one of the books? Some had been speculating that JonBenet was killed elsewhere. Another thing, some of them living 25 mi away wouldn't necessarily prevent their being at the Rs', as they could have stayed in Boulder that night at a hotel or with some friend, having been so determined to get PR to have a party on the 23rd, and SOMEONE having told JBR to expect another visit from Santa after Christmas. There's also all the OTHER dead children he knew on the harp. Still not accusing him, just would like explanations. At this other forum someone even mentioned a couple of names that could have been the children or trees in the forest in one of Santa's stories. It was found that at least one was definitely murdered, but not the names of any of the 12-15 (?) children.

Bottom line is, we have no proof others were in the house, and no proof they were NOT. "No evidence" either way. Remember I'm an FS, not desperate to prove either way.

 

[UKGuy]

Bottom line is, we have no proof others were in the house, and no proof they were NOT. "No evidence" either way. Remember I'm an FS, not desperate to prove either way.

Eagle1,

Well there is no forensic evidence indicating that an intruder was in the Ramsey house that night.

Someone sexually assaulted JonBenet, strangled her twice, whacked her on head, splitting it open, then dumped her body down in the basement, that sounds like 1st degree murder to me.


.

 

[Toltec]

Linda Hoffman Pugh did tell authorities that Patsy disciplined JonBenet in her bathroom. My belief is that Patsy chose to scold her in private...nobody's business but their own.

That is probably what happened that night...a scuffle ensued in JonBenet's bathroom and Patsy went into a rage. She hit JonBenet over the head and then heard a loud crack. If that were me, I'd call 911 ASAP. I would want to save my child first and to heck with the consequences. Patsy chose to save herself instead of her child.

The balled up turtleneck and the soiled pants in the bathroom indicate to me that Patsy attempted to bathe JonBenet. They were getting in a small plane and Patsy wanted a clean JonBenet. Of course JonBenet wouldn't hear of it.

Everyone has different ways of disciplining their child. I do not choose to take my child to the restroom, instead just pointing my finger and explaining to her that what she did is not nice.

 

[UKGuy]

Linda Hoffman Pugh did tell authorities that Patsy disciplined JonBenet in her bathroom. My belief is that Patsy chose to scold her in private...nobody's business but their own.

That is probably what happened that night...a scuffle ensued in JonBenet's bathroom and Patsy went into a rage. She hit JonBenet over the head and then heard a loud crack. If that were me, I'd call 911 ASAP. I would want to save my child first and to heck with the consequences. Patsy chose to save herself instead of her child.

The balled up turtleneck and the soiled pants in the bathroom indicate to me that Patsy attempted to bathe JonBenet. They were getting in a small plane and Patsy wanted a clean JonBenet. Of course JonBenet wouldn't hear of it.

Everyone has different ways of disciplining their child. I do not choose to take my child to the restroom, instead just pointing my finger and explaining to her that what she did is not nice.

Toltec,

My belief is that Patsy chose to scold her in private

Nothing unusual about this is there?

That is probably what happened that night...a scuffle ensued in JonBenet's bathroom and Patsy went into a rage. She hit JonBenet over the head and then heard a loud crack. If that were me, I'd call 911 ASAP. I would want to save my child first and to heck with the consequences. Patsy chose to save herself instead of her child.

It could have happened this way, who will tell us now, but I agree, my first response would also be to dial 911 immediately and request medical assistance for my daughter. Just as was done when Burke hit JonBenet with a golf-club.

So if it was never intended to happen and it was a domestic accident following some form of chastisement, why not request ER?

Why does a mother plough on, visiting a catalog of violence upon her daughter? She was sexually assaulted and strangled twice, then there are all those abrasions on her body and face, including a fractured skull?

An accident is an accident nobody is going to hang or sit you in the chair for an accident, if JonBenet was still alive after being whacked on the head, why should Patsy want to make a dire situation even worse, why should she deny her daughter medical care, and substitute this with a strangulation and sexual assault?

Is a child's death not an order of magnitude larger than that of an unintended accident?

The balled up turtleneck and the soiled pants in the bathroom indicate to me that Patsy attempted to bathe JonBenet. They were getting in a small plane and Patsy wanted a clean JonBenet. Of course JonBenet wouldn't hear of it.

Why not clean her in the morning or have her wear those pullups on the plane, after all she may wet or soil herself at some point through the night?

Assuming the accident scenario it appears that Patsy intended JonBenet to die, she denied her medical assistance, and either by asphyxiation or simple neglect allowed JonBenet's life to expire?


Why would John and Burke act as silent witness to Patsy killing JonBenet?



.

 

[JMO8778]

Toltec,


Nothing unusual about this is there?


It could have happened this way, who will tell us now, but I agree, my first response would also be to dial 911 immediately and request medical assistance for my daughter. Just as was done when Burke hit JonBenet with a golf-club.

So if it was never intended to happen and it was a domestic accident following some form of chastisement, why not request ER?

Why does a mother plough on, visiting a catalog of violence upon her daughter? She was sexually assaulted and strangled twice, then there are all those abrasions on her body and face, including a fractured skull?

An accident is an accident nobody is going to hang or sit you in the chair for an accident, if JonBenet was still alive after being whacked on the head, why should Patsy want to make a dire situation even worse, why should she deny her daughter medical care, and substitute this with a strangulation and sexual assault?

Is a child's death not an order of magnitude larger than that of an unintended accident?


Why not clean her in the morning or have her wear those pullups on the plane, after all she may wet or soil herself at some point through the night?

Assuming the accident scenario it appears that Patsy intended JonBenet to die, she denied her medical assistance, and either by asphyxiation or simple neglect allowed JonBenet's life to expire?


Why would John and Burke act as silent witness to Patsy killing JonBenet?



.

If BR saw anything,I think he blocked it out.JR?I think he's all about money.

 

[JMO8778]

Yes, I have heard that theory before..and it could have been JR dressed as santa, telling her that, because they were planning on letting Santa come again in Michigan. We did that one year, we had "santa" at our house, and then went to my in-laws..and "Santa" came there too.

could be,if it was something innocent,which may very well be the case.If not,then I have to wonder if the 'secret visit' referred to a visit from a molester(JR) dressed in a Santa suit as a disguise.
The visit reffered to after Christmas,and it was a secret--from Santa.Was after Xmas (x=greek word for Christ,so no offense to anyone) that night,after everyone got home and the day was over?Remember the Santa suit was questioned about in the interviews.And there were pics found in the basement of JB that were taken in the basement.ODD.It points to molestation,IMO.Combine it with JR trying to account for his underwear fibers in her room,his fibers found on JB's body,and the word 'incest' being looked up....