"G (Guilty)" vs "NG (Not Guilty)" Where do you stand? #3

[Rlaub44]

That instruction 'can' only be given 'if' the jury is instructed on a lesser charge to Casey's first-degree murder charge. Right now, the only lesser charge against Casey's first-degree murder charge is manslaughter, not second-degree murder nor third-degree murder.

HTH

Haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but I wanted to clarify.

Casey has been charged with first-degree murder and manslaughter. However, as murder two and murder three are lesser included charges of murder 1 in Florida, the judge can instruct the jury on murder two if there is evidence to support that charge.

It does not have to be formally charged by the state pre-trial. So you are technically correct here that those are the current charges, but the judge has until he instructs the jury to choose which of the lessers to include in those instructions.

 

[RR0004]

JB & TM on Early Show 10/2/09 - Page 2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Posts #30 and #86.

Oh Lacey...thank you so much...I knew I had read it and started going through all my old posts, but they didn't go back that far.

 

[okiedokietoo]

Bold one: There is no proof of that. That is not a fact.
Bold Two: Not confirmed. Fbi Email says can not confirm human decomp.
Bold Three: Fbi report said fabric didn't match. Consistent with coming from a different source.
Bold four: I would expect things from her home to be there. She did live there of course.
Bold Five: They don't know who performed that search if indeed the search happened.
This is another reason why I lean not guilty. There are many false reports out there.

Work with me here. As I have stated before, as far as I am concerned, your opinions are very much welcome. I am not trying to be snippy. I just want to know if you are here to honestly discuss this case or to "bait and switch"/ provoke reactions? I lurked quite a while before joining WS. What impressed me was how everyone on here approached the evidence from a "blank slate" point of view. Terminology that was not understood was researched. WS'ers with Chemistry backgrounds put things in layman's terms for us. When legal issues come up, WS'ers that have law backgrounds do the same. A second benefit of that is I now have a better understanding of the legal process. WS'ers spend hours of off time surfing the internet to get a better understanding of entomology. WS'ers with no Law backgrounds are reading Florida State Laws and finding Statutes that might apply to this case and posting links for the rest of us. I assume that new people join WS quite often. I truly want those people to have the same wonderful learning experience as I have had since I joined over a year ago - A real feeling of belonging to a community that is truly devoted to one thing, above all else, The Truth.
And I agree, the false reports need to stop.

 

[cecybeans]

I am just curious and I will admit that I don't know. Do you know if they did diagnose her as an sociopath? I did hear that the Judge had ordered an examination. It is my understanding that it can only be diagnosed by a professional and that professional has to interview that person.

The other term was pathological liar. Was that diagnosed?
See? this is where I am not that smart.

Ps, I do not have any respect for Mark Klaas what so ever.

We of course do not know if KC has been diagnosed as a sociopath (although the fact her own mother seemed to think it applied is certainly a starting point), however a lot of psychological and psychiatric professionals are WS members and have analyzed her behavior and words from what we know so far, and from observations others have made in testimony (there are some interesting threads regarding their observations and expert opinions) and have more or less come to the consensus that KC may have had one or more disorders up to and including sociopathy. Of course, that determination will be made by others, but those of us out here with experience with sociopaths seem to think a lot of KC's behavior and traits could certainly fall into that category.

I think the term pathological liar here is used anecdotally and not as a diagnosis, simply to refer to what we often term people who have a reputation for continuous lying, even when not necessary (ie: LA's comment to AL that he thought his sister lied even when she didn't need to and the fact she told AH that GA had a stroke or heart attack when she could not or would not go to Jacksonville with her to pick up the car, IIRC). However, I am sure that any psych specialist who analyzes her to determine if she has a specific personality disorder will probably make that determination.

 

[notthatsmart]

Per your bold one I offer up the Forensic Entomology Report that was released 11/06/09. It clearly states on page 1 and page 7 that there are coffin flies because of the decomp in the trunk, in the trash bag and on the napkins/paper towels. So that has been proven already.

Yeah but problem is, is they wont just call it human decomp. As a matter of fact, they steer away from that.

They need to state it as fact that it is human decomp. Since they dont, I must assume they mean it could be something else. Like food.

 

[Rlaub44]

I guess after the second quote I get your point.

You must believe in this interrogation tactic in this situation. I just Don't and that is my opinion.

I also think of her reaction when she first called home asking for TonE's number, and her friend (was it Christina? Can't recall...) cried and showed concern for Caylee, and KC's reply was what a huge waste it was to call them.

My point here is that it seems as if the gentle approach doesn't seem to work with her either. I suspect that the only way to keep peace when KC lies is to simply acquiesce and pretend to believe her, as GA & CA did for so many years.

I can't imagine that would have gotten to the truth any better than the way LE tried.

Your reaction to the interrogation is that it strengthens your belief in NG. I feel the opposite - KC's lies and evasion only confirms my belief that she is completely guilty.

 

[TorisMom003]

Yeah but problem is, is they wont just call it human decomp. As a matter of fact, they steer away from that.

They need to state it as fact that it is human decomp. Since they dont, I must assume they mean it could be something else. Like food.

Then please provide for me the proof that food was found in the trunk of Casey's car or in the white trash bag. The problem is there was NO food in either place. Therefore it can not be decomp from something else. We also have first hand accounts that the smell coming from the trunk of the car was that of a "dead body". Since they do not specifically say that it was food then I conclude that it was not from food.

 

[Trapshooter]

Yeah but problem is, is they wont just call it human decomp. As a matter of fact, they steer away from that.

They need to state it as fact that it is human decomp. Since they dont, I must assume they mean it could be something else. Like food.

notthatsmart it is as close to fact as it can get when they mention coffin flies. Coffin flies do NOT consume animal meat, only decomposing human tissue. :banghead:

Is it just me or does anyone else feel like we are stuck in that movie "Groundhog Day"? :banghead:

 

[notthatsmart]

Work with me here. As I have stated before, as far as I am concerned, your opinions are very much welcome. I am not trying to be snippy. I just want to know if you are here to honestly discuss this case or to "bait and switch"/ provoke reactions? I lurked quite a while before joining WS. What impressed me was how everyone on here approached the evidence from a "blank slate" point of view. Terminology that was not understood was researched. WS'ers with Chemistry backgrounds put things in layman's terms for us. When legal issues come up, WS'ers that have law backgrounds do the same. A second benefit of that is I now have a better understanding of the legal process. WS'ers spend hours of off time surfing the internet to get a better understanding of entomology. WS'ers with no Law backgrounds are reading Florida State Laws and finding Statutes that might apply to this case and posting links for the rest of us. I assume that new people join WS quite often. I truly want those people to have the same wonderful learning experience as I have had since I joined over a year ago - A real feeling of belonging to a community that is truly devoted to one thing, above all else, The Truth.
And I agree, the false reports need to stop.

I have no use for baiting or provoking actions for the sake of arguement. I want Justice for Caylee and that can only be done by getting to the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Caylee deserves truth. I know that my position is very very unpopular. I accept that. But I am not going to lay down and walk away with my tail between my legs. Caylee deserves better. The truth can only come from the good the bad and the ugly. Justice for Caylee.

 

[Kentjbkent]

I guess after the second quote I get your point.

You must believe in this interrogation tactic in this situation. I just Don't and that is my opinion.

I do believe in this type of interrogation as in most cases, it results in an arrest, often with confession in hand.

I don't work with LE so am not privy to most interrogations, but I do enjoy watching all episodes of "The First 48" (love those marathons!), and in those cases, very rarely do the crimes go unsolved, and many result in a taped confession of the suspect.....so in my opinion, it works.

What are your reasonings behind these interrogation tactics NOT working?

 

[RR0004]

Yeah but problem is, is they wont just call it human decomp. As a matter of fact, they steer away from that.

They need to state it as fact that it is human decomp. Since they dont, I must assume they mean it could be something else. Like food.

So they went to the trouble of going and finding the adult flies to determine how long the food had been decomposing?

 

[Rlaub44]

Yeah but problem is, is they wont just call it human decomp. As a matter of fact, they steer away from that.

They need to state it as fact that it is human decomp. Since they dont, I must assume they mean it could be something else. Like food.

Remember too, that the cadaver dogs hit on the trunk area. These dogs are specifically trained only to alert to those chemicals that are present in human decomposition.

One of the many things I learned in reading about this case is that the chemical makeup of human decomp is different from the makeup of animal decomp or food spoilage. Cadaver dogs must show a sensitivity to only those compounds that signify a human body has decomposed there.

For me, that adds some more credence to the idea that it wasn't animal decomp or rotten food in KC's trunk.

 

[RR0004]

I have no use for baiting or provoking actions for the sake of arguement. I want Justice for Caylee and that can only be done by getting to the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Caylee deserves truth. I know that my position is very very unpopular. I accept that. But I am not going to lay down and walk away with my tail between my legs. Caylee deserves better. The truth can only come from the good the bad and the ugly. Justice for Caylee.

No disrespect, but consistency would be great.

 

[okiedokietoo]

I spent a diplomatically long time on that post. That's all I have....I symbolically say "Uncle"...

 

[Kentjbkent]

Yeah but problem is, is they wont just call it human decomp. As a matter of fact, they steer away from that.

They need to state it as fact that it is human decomp. Since they dont, I must assume they mean it could be something else. Like food.

But in trial, when the prosecution witness (person) for this particular piece of evidence is testifying, I am sure this will be expounded on and made more clear, which will then take away your need to "assume". Will your opinon be changed after that testimony?

And could you quote where they "steer away" from calling it HUMAN decomp in the document, please?

 

[Harmony 2]

Yeah but problem is, is they wont just call it human decomp. As a matter of fact, they steer away from that.

They need to state it as fact that it is human decomp. Since they dont, I must assume they mean it could be something else. Like food.

The volatile fatty acid, butyric acid, was found on the trunk liner and occurs in the early stages of human decomp. Adipocere was also found and is part of the decomposition process in certain conditions. No food whatsoever was found in the trash... only empty wrappings, a pizza box and containers.

 

[Kentjbkent]

I am looking forward to the SA extracting the information they need from the experts. I also think the cross examination of these experts will be very interesting.

I am more interested in finally seeing WHO is going to show up to do the cross examination?! HA

 

[Trapshooter]

I have no use for baiting or provoking actions for the sake of arguement. I want Justice for Caylee and that can only be done by getting to the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Caylee deserves truth. I know that my position is very very unpopular. I accept that. But I am not going to lay down and walk away with my tail between my legs. Caylee deserves better. The truth can only come from the good the bad and the ugly. Justice for Caylee.

BBMNotthatsmart, it is not your position that is unpopular here. It is your posts stating that false statements are being made when in fact it is quite the opposite. There is link after link here to lead one to find the answers they seek so they don't state "opinions" as facts. Many facts you claim are false have been proven to be true. It truly is not your position here, and by that I am assuming you mean your opinion of Not Guilty, it is your way of saying "facts" don't exist. Hope this helps.

 

[RR0004]

So there hasn't been a specific date set yet for trial?

 

[Kentjbkent]

Haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but I wanted to clarify.

Casey has been charged with first-degree murder and manslaughter. However, as murder two and murder three are lesser included charges of murder 1 in Florida, the judge can instruct the jury on murder two if there is evidence to support that charge.
It does not have to be formally charged by the state pre-trial. So you are technically correct here that those are the current charges, but the judge has until he instructs the jury to choose which of the lessers to include in those instructions.

And I for one have the utmost confidence that JS will make sure all bases are covered in seeking justice for Caylee!