GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Murdered while jogging.
And it was his own neighborhood.
Methinks the killers knew him and planned this ?
They didn't call LE because they wanted Mr. Ahmaud dead for some reason.
Perhaps the killers were hoping the rest of the family would then move from the neighborhood they (victim and his family) lived in ?
You can't make this up.
How is a person out jogging with no criminal record a danger to anyone ?

Eta : Even if a person had a criminal record (DailyMail just had to point out that the victim had a shoplifting charge from when he was 12 or 13); if they're out for a run in their own neighborhood or elsewhere-- they're not a threat.
Makes you wonder about the LE in GA.
 
He certainly does have that right. I am merely asking if there is confirmation that these men were actually white supremacists.

Sorry, I am not sure how there would be confirmation of the McMichael's or 3rd person's states of mind. Their words to 911, their coordinated action to trap a black man who was running on the street in the middle of the day in an armed ambush. Gregory McMaster's words in the 911 call and incident report make it clear they did not think the runner was in the process of committing a crime. He called 911 and reported that a black man is running on the street. The dispatcher tried to find out what the man was doing that was wrong. McMichael stated he'd looked in a house under construction. The dispatcher asked, are you saying there is a burglary in progress? McMaster said 'No. . . . It's open, it's under construction.' He knew it was not a burglary and said so to the dispatcher. The whole citizen arrest claim is belied by the 911. McMaster knew there was no crime that allowed a witness to make a citizen arrest. That justification came after Arbery was dead.

After the 911, when McMaster knew police had been dispatched, he got his son and friend, got guns, and set out in 2 vehicles to trap the black man who ran on the street. According to McMasters own words in the incident report his friend used his vehicle to box the jogger in from behind and the McMasters waited in their truck ahead of the runner. McMaster was in the bed of the truck, as if they were hunting, and Travis drove. As Arbery approached, Travis jumped out of the driver's side (left side) brandishing a shotgun. Arbery went around the right side of the truck, on the grass, to avoid Travis. Travis went around the front of the truck and got in close contact with Arbery. How the physical altercation started is not on camera. But clearly Travis McMaster initiated contact while brandishing a shotgun.

Maybe you have a more specific definition of a white supremacists than I do. For me, the belief that a black person has no right to run on a public street or that a white person has the right to detain a black person without cause, at gunpoint, and ultimately kill the person because was a black man running on the street they live on tells me it was racially motivated.

It doesn't matter to me whether the McMichaels and friend were hood-wearing members of the KKK or not. Their words and actions are clear that they felt entitled to control a black person's running route and he is dead because of that entitlement. In the end, there is no hate crime statute in Georgia so the race of the victim or perpetrators won't matter in state court.

The cronyism that derailed the investigation--accepting the white perpetrators words as a given despite having the video--smacks of institutional racism. In a criminal prosecution, the government is supposed to stand for the victim because dead people don't get to give their side of the story. So far Georgia has accepted the instigators word as fact, despite the 911 call and the video. Then authorities have been unwilling/unable to look into the death of an unarmed black man because of conflicts of interests. Those conflicts should have resulted in the DA and 2 prosecutors recusal of their own accord. Finally, after more than 2 months and public outcry generated by the McMaster's attorney's release of the video, a different DA will investigate and a 3rd prosecutor has been named. I hope the federal government steps in to investigate the death as well as the actions of the original DA and prosecutors as civil rights matters.
 
They were both charged with murder and aggravated assault.

This link will likely be updated a LOT between now and that press conference
Father, son arrested & charged with murder in shooting of Brunswick jogger
Thanks. ^^^

That should be interesting.
And why were they stalking the victim in his own neighborhood --a neighborhood that the killers did not belong to ?
Did the victim jog on a daily basis and someone else in that specific neighborhood call in the murderers in to "do them a solid" ?
Lol, I don't know how these types talk.
So many questions !
 
Last edited:
How the physical altercation started is not on camera. But clearly Travis McMaster initiated contact while brandishing a shotgun.

.
bbm
Snipped for focus

Well thanks for this information, as I was wondering who started a fight.
So you clarified it and at least we know the truth.
I don't say "the fight" ; b/c the victim who was unarmed would not have started an altercation with a shotgun held to his head and was in the video trying to dodge around the truck and was attempting to run away from them.
At least the unedited video seemed to show that.

Eta : So why didn't LE arrest the shooters immediately ?
It would appear that LE in GA are corrupt.
Normally WS is supportive of LE but from the posts in this thread it looks like we can question LE's behavior and there is nothing wrong with that.
 
Last edited:
The trespassing comment came later and is unsubstantiated. And would have been no excuse for killing a curious person anyway. It wasn't the McMichaels' or the friends' property.
Evidently, Georgia permits citizens arrests on occasions where a person has direct knowledge that a felony has been committed. Burglary is a felony under Georgia law. It would seem that the DA would need answers to the following questions:

Q. Did the three men have direct knowledge that the deceased committed a felony moments before the confrontation?

Apparent Answer No, (he was said to have peered into a home under construction that day.

Q. Did the three men have say, very direct knowledge that he had committed a felony prior to the day of the confrontation?

Apparent Answer No, a person that resembles him (and could actually be him) is on video trespassing and poking around a dock etc.

Unless there is other evidence, both of these "No" answers seem strong. Why were the men not charged?
 
I am definitely not the best map user out there, but I wanted to share some info to help people get their bearings on the area. I watched a Jacksonville news report on where the victim had done his daily run from, which was a subdivision on the other side of US 17 (Jekyll Island Causeway) from the Satilla Shores subdivision.

1. Map start: Based on Jacksonville TV news interviews with neighbors of the victim, the most likely subdivision he lived in/did his jogs/runs from is the Boykin Ridge subdivision - it's really the first (and virtually only) subdivision that fits the scenery and house spacing I saw in those news interviews.
That's less than 2 miles from the location where he was killed in the Satilla Shores subdivision. That's an easy jog for most runners/joggers, and from doing a drive that way via Google Street view, I could see the allure in jogging in the older Satilla Hills subdivision with its narrow windy roads (probably a fraction of the traffic he'd have to navigate on Fancy Bluff Road), huge live oak tree canopy with lots of Spanish Moss and azalea bushes and scenic marsh views.
2. Stop 2: I've also noted on the map the location of the "in-construction / open" house that was going up - 220 Satilla Drive (Google street view has it as a vacant lot when their car went through; cross-referencing the landowner name in the police report with the public property records confirmed that address. Supposedly this was the house the killers had claimed they saw him at (still unclear to me whether they claimed to have seen him there that day or a different day)
3. Stop 3: 230 Satilla Road is where the 2 arrested men live (cross-referenced from the public police report and Google Street view of local reporters standing in front of the men's home). One of them claimed to be in that front yard when they saw what they claimed they were doing a "citizens' arrest" for. Supposedly they saw him in the home being built (#2 on the map). When I look at the Google street view - I do not believe they would have been able to see that house from their front yard, given the layout of the homes and yards/trees/hedges between the two locations. That decreases the likelihood that they observed an immediate felony burglary there.
4. Stop 4 The last mark is the intersection of Satilla and Burford and Holmes Roads - where the police report the victim was shot and killed.

Ugh - sorry this map link is so weird, but it seems to work (hope it does):

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏
 
Please forgive me if I came across too stridently. I am furious at the unprovoked murder of this young man--not at you.

MOO is that the words to 911 and coordinated armed ambush of a 'black man running on the street' makes them white supremacists. Most white supremacists don't don masks or believe in harming people. But their attitude toward people of color in general is that they are less-than, or less worthy. On an individual basis, they may get along fine with a particular co-worker or neighbor who is black. But they believe "those people" are the problem or "the blacks" are inferior. They want to restore the primacy of white men in society, which has been eroding with advancement of civil rights and womens rights.
All MOO.

He certainly does have that right. I am merely asking if there is confirmation that these men were actually white supremacists.
 
Why is the 3rd person not charged with conspiracy? He was in on the felonies the McMasters are charged with, if nothing else.
I don't know.

For Conspiracy, the State may need to prove that the men planned a crime in advance and that the other man then facilitated the crime. That maybe a difficult burden.

Some states have a "Party to" laws where all the participants can be charged with a crime- even if individually they did not directly commit it. (The get away driver can also be charged with murder) (say, harm the victim).

But... I think the state would still need to prove that the other man knew the McMasters were armed and intended to confront the deceased.

It is also my vague impression that actively prosecuting under "Party to" laws has gone out of style due to concerns for fairness.

Likewise, other prosecutors may feel that it alienates juries as the defense counters with: "My client did not have a weapon that day, did not kill anybody and did not encourage others to kill the victim". So... why is he being charged with the same crime as the man who pulled the trigger?"
 
Last edited:
Murdered while jogging.
And it was his own neighborhood.
Methinks the killers knew him and planned this ?
They didn't call LE because they wanted Mr. Ahmaud dead for some reason.
Perhaps the killers were hoping the rest of the family would then move from the neighborhood they (victim and his family) lived in ?
You can't make this up.
How is a person out jogging with no criminal record a danger to anyone ?

Eta : Even if a person had a criminal record (DailyMail just had to point out that the victim had a shoplifting charge from when he was 12 or 13); if they're out for a run in their own neighborhood or elsewhere-- they're not a threat.
Makes you wonder about the LE in GA.
It appears to be a neighborhood a couple of miles away (well within run/jog distance), based on local interviews with the victim's neighbors.

At least one of the men did call 911 before they pursued the victim, but local news articles indicate they were NOT able to tell 911 dispatch what crime they had observed - another strike against a "citizens' arrest" argument, and there was one other call to 911 based on links posted further up thread.

I can't say that the victim had no criminal record (local news reported that he had brought a gun to a school gym in 2012 when he was 19 - Police report sheds more light on Satilla Shores shooting); however, that one instance does not seem to have relevance to the conditions at hand and the article didn't indicate any probation violations or other run-ins with LEO.
 
I don't think it was to quell tensions but rather to incite a division based on how some might look at the justifiable actions of his clients. If you look at this as a crime, they hunted him. If you look at this as protecting your neighborhood, all one's actions are justifiable based on a single burglary that might have been committed by this man of color.

You're right. The family had been asking to view it all along and was told no. The McMichaels attorney released it anonymously at first. How horrible that the first time they saw it was when the general public did. I took the attorney at face value when he said he thought it would quell tensions. Silly me! If he had good intentions, Ahmaud's family would have seen it privately.

Here is the report where he states he is just hoping to reduce tensions.
Video of Ahmaud Arbery's death was released by the lawyer for the men who killed him, attorney claims
 
I don't know.

For Conspiracy, the State may need to prove that the men planned a crime in advance and that the other man then facilitated the crime. That maybe a difficult burden.

Some states have a "Party to" laws where all the participants can be charged with a crime- even if individually they did not directly commit it. (The get away driver can also be charged with murder) (say, harm the victim).

But... I think the state would still need to prove that the other man knew the McMasters were armed and intended to confront the deceased. It is also my vague impression that actively prosecuting under "Party to" laws has gone out of style due to concerns for fairness.

Likewise, other prosecutors may feel that it alienates juries as the defense counters with: "My client did not have a weapon that day, did not kill anybody and did not encourage others to kill the victim". So... why is he being charged with the same crime as the man who pulled the trigger?"
I think that a "Party to" type case probably needs a bit more review/discovery before they decide whether to charge the 3rd man. From news reports earlier today, the 3rd man is the one who did the cell phone video (and from the longer video (MOO) it sounded like he was readying a gun, too). The police report does state that "McMichael stated the unidentified male turned around and began running back in the direction from which he came and "(I've intentionally not named the man - it's in the report)" attempted to block him in which was unsuccessful." So from the POV of the 2 men arrested, the 3rd man was an active "party to" the pursuit of the victim which resulted in the altercation that led to the victim's shooting.

(Ahmaud Arbery Police Report | Law Enforcement | Crime & Justice | Free 30-day Trial | Scribd)

This is MOO; draw your own conclusions from the info
 
I found this interesting to read. Not really any new info just comments from those seeking justice for Ahmaud. One thing I did notice and was disturbed by was a comment in the letter from George Barnhill says "Barnhill defended the McMichaels' actions, as well as a third man who was part of the incident, writing they had "solid first hand probable cause" to chase after Arbery, a "burglary suspect," and stop him. Barnhill also said that after watching the video of the incident, "given the fact Arbery initiated the fight" and grabbed the shotgun, Travis McMichael "was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself" under Georgia law."

So where was Ahmauds right to protect himself? Sorry, I could be all wrong but this whole thing smells wrong, very wrong.


Before apparent video of Ahmaud Arbery shooting, a community was rallying for answers
 
Thanks. ^^^

That should be interesting.
And why were they stalking the victim in his own neighborhood --a neighborhood that the killers did not belong to ?
Did the victim jog on a daily basis and someone else in that specific neighborhood call in the murderers in to "do them a solid" ?
Lol, I don't know how these types talk.
So many questions !

Travis McMichael and William Bryan lived on the street that Ahmaud ran on when they decided to pursue him. It was that general neighborhood where the confrontation took place. Ahmaud lived 2-3 miles away, according to a previous post.
 
You're right. The family had been asking to view it all along and was told no. The McMichaels attorney released it anonymously at first. How horrible that the first time they saw it was when the general public did. I took the attorney at face value when he said he thought it would quell tensions. Silly me! If he had good intentions, Ahmaud's family would have seen it privately.

Here is the report where he states he is just hoping to reduce tensions.
Video of Ahmaud Arbery's death was released by the lawyer for the men who killed him, attorney claims
I still take the attorney at face value. I don't think he was acting in malice, I think he was just acting in dumb-*ss mode. On the flip side, according to gabar.org (Georgia Bar's member search), he was admitted to the bar in 1981. You'd think he'd know better than to have his clients tried in the court of public opinion by releasing the video. He did his prospective clients more harm than good, though I'm relieved that it will force the truth to come out and hopefully justice will be served.

MOO
 
I've read he has said the McMasters' attorney. But I have also read him quoted saying that they have no retained him because they have not (at that time) been charged. Now, we will see. He obviously had access to the video so there is a relationship there but maybe informal.
 
Travis McMichael and William Bryan lived on the street that Ahmaud ran on when they decided to pursue him. It was that general neighborhood where the confrontation took place. Ahmaud lived 2-3 miles away, according to a previous post.
Thanks for the correction. ^^^

That video was horrendous to watch. :(

Rest in peace, Ahmaud !
I am so sorry... you should have had many years of life left to live !

My condolences to his grieving family, and I hope they receive answers and see justice for their loved one !
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
93
Guests online
206
Total visitors
299

Forum statistics

Threads
609,325
Messages
18,252,644
Members
234,624
Latest member
XtraGuacPlz
Back
Top