GUILTY GA - Antonio Santiago, 13 mos, Brunswick, 21 March 2013 - #3

[katydid23]

Did they say definitely self-inflicted (which no one can know at this point), or wondering if it's a possibility given the evidence thus far - two different bullets between herself and the baby - there can only be two explanations - the wounds were from two different guns or the bullets were simply different in the same gun - neither has been proven conclusively so it leads one to wonder, YKWIM?

There is always the possibility that things are not as they appear - that's what makes these type cases interesting, at least to me. I've noticed, for some, it becomes less about sleuthing and more about proving to everyone they are right. That's not fair to those who are still on the fence, no matter how obvious or just the outcome may appear to others.

For me, it is not about being 'right.' For me, it is about the grieving mother, who is a victim, and the pain it must bring to have people question if she killed her child for a 5000 dollar Gerber policy. I think it is awful to accuse her of such a heinous crime, with no evidence whatsoever that she was the shooter. This used to be a victim friendly site.

Elkins has a recent history of ARMED ROBBERY. But S West does not have that criminal history. Elkins was seen by several family members with the gun and asked them to dispose of it for him. It was not S West who did that. She was not seen with a gun that day. Her baby was shot in the face. Are we really thinking that she shot that baby? Isn't that what it means to ' be on the fence?'

 

[fran]

and... 2 EMTs & an ER nurse from whom we learned West said "they shot my baby".... he called 2 or 3 juvie workers to tell about the 22s found in the pocket... Was there any NEW information today?

I'm not sure noZme. I didn't watch all day and when I did, couldn't hear too well. (I was cleaning my oven and had a loud fan on). LOL, ok (I had the oven on self-clean and had a loud fan on :facepalm: )

fran

 

[themist]

I had to step out for an hour now I don't see a feed, is it over for Today? Anybody know...

 

[westie mom]

After losing the live feed, I just checked Tim Puliam's Twitter...don't know how to bring it over here though - sorry!!

Defense has rested, both Defendants decline testifying. Closings set for 9am tomorrow (Friday)

Something tells me we'll have a verdict before the end of the day!!

Westie Mom

 

[vlpate]

After losing the live feed, I just checked Tim Puliam's Twitter...don't know how to bring it over here though - sorry!!

Defense has rested, both Defendants decline testifying. Closings set for 9am tomorrow (Friday)

Something tells me we'll have a verdict before the end of the day!!

Westie Mom

This was the strangest trial I have seen yet. I don't see where they've proven anything about anything, seriously. There's reasonable doubt all over the place. SW points out two different shooters, the bullets don't match, she is the only eye witness aside from Lang whose story is different in pretty significant ways than SW's story and he's lied 17 times to police.

It's really not that I don't think the kid was there with a gun and was shooting, I just don't know how I would convict on this evidence. Maybe I've missed something not following as closely as some of you. Help?

 

[momrids6]

Did they say definitely self-inflicted (which no one can know at this point), or wondering if it's a possibility given the evidence thus far - two different bullets between herself and the baby - there can only be two explanations - the wounds were from two different guns or the bullets were simply different in the same gun - neither has been proven conclusively so it leads one to wonder, YKWIM?

I can tell you- the multiple brand of bullets in one gun is just a new trending tactic of criminals in this area.
Criminals watch television too.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I can tell you- the multiple brand of bullets in one gun is just a new trending tactic of criminals in this area.
Criminals watch television too.

Were they different brands of bullets or different calibre bullets?

 

[westie mom]

Former ADA to private practice to public defender

Interesting "career path" there!!

Obviously, Gough doesn't have much courtroom experience based upon his unfamiliarity with basic concepts of trial practice - appropriately questioning witnesses, the basic definition of "hostile" witness (and no, it's not just because they're bad for your case or hostile toward your antics/personal attacks), what constitutes grounds for a mistrial, appropriate courtroom decorum etc. And the biggest one of all - do NOT make a jury hate your guts. It RARELY turns out well for your client once you do...

Of course, the above is IMO, JMHO, and all other necessary disclaimers,

Westie Mom

 

[themist]

Hello all, my inquiry about the bullets they found on Elkins (http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/22166990/police-baby-slaying-suspect-had-bullets-in-pocket) seems to be gone now from this thread..but AGAIN - does ANYONE KNOW if the bullets they found on Elkins match any of the kind of bullets that shot SW or AS? It was two bullets, ironically two is what Malik was found with as well...JS.
Did the State address these bullets on Elkins or No?

 

[momrids6]

Interesting "career path" there!!

Obviously, Gough doesn't have much courtroom experience based upon his unfamiliarity with basic concepts of trial practice - appropriately questioning witnesses, the basic definition of "hostile" witness (and no, it's not just because they're bad for your case or hostile toward your antics/personal attacks), what constitutes grounds for a mistrial, appropriate courtroom decorum etc. And the biggest one of all - do NOT make a jury hate your guts. It RARELY turns out well for your client once you do...

Of course, the above is IMO, JMHO, and all other necessary disclaimers,

Westie Mom

Oh he has plenty of courtroom experience; in Family & Juvenile Court. He got away with the "wonderful" behavior because the judge was nuts- really; and he bullied women with ardor.

That stopped paying the bills when economy tanked.

You can google his background and history to figure out how the below came about.


Cheryl Prater, spokeswoman for the Public Defender Council, said the change was made as the council went about complying with new state law that reconstituted the supervisory council that oversees the public defender offices in each circuit.
The new supervisory council for each circuit has three members — one appointed by the governor, one by the chief Superior Court judge of the circuit and one by the county commission of the most populous county, Prater said.


Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/georgi...uit-getting-new-public-defender#ixzz2dPDgRI00
Imo

 

[katydid23]

Were they different brands of bullets or different calibre bullets?

It was stated [ up above in the thread] that both bullets could have been shot by the gun they found in the pond, which was disposed of by Elkin's mother.

 

[westie mom]

Oh he has plenty of courtroom experience; in Family & Juvenile Court. He got away with the "wonderful" behavior because the judge was nuts- really; and he bullied women with ardor.

That stopped paying the bills when economy tanked. Someone hopes by taking the not popular PD job will be a way to "smoooooz" some favor with many he screwed over.

Imo

THAT explains a LOT, LOL

Good luck to Mr. Gough with his delusion regarding a future in politics after this hot mess...there is an old military saying about "death by exposure" that he may want to familiarize himself with! Of course, this is IMO, JMHO...

On a more serious note, I had a thought earlier wondering if DE would have valid inadequate representation Appellate grounds based upon Gough's antics/courtroom incompetence over the course of the trial??? Gough's repeated lessons in Law 101 that are so painfully repetitively and exquisitely noted in the record could make a compelling argument. My background is in Civil, not Criminal, law and I hope someone might have some insight...

Thanks,

Westie Mom

 

[katydid23]

This was the strangest trial I have seen yet. I don't see where they've proven anything about anything, seriously. There's reasonable doubt all over the place. SW points out two different shooters, the bullets don't match, she is the only eye witness aside from Lang whose story is different in pretty significant ways than SW's story and he's lied 17 times to police.

It's really not that I don't think the kid was there with a gun and was shooting, I just don't know how I would convict on this evidence. Maybe I've missed something not following as closely as some of you. Help?

"SW points out two different shooters,"

BOTH of them were involved in the crime. It is not like she pointed out two random, different unconnected people. She recognized BOTH of the kids who were present while they committed an armed robbery.

I think by law, BOTH OF THEM can be charged with murder. It does not even matter which one pulled the trigger if they both took part in an armed robbery which resulted in MURDER.




"...the bullets don't match,"



That is not that unusual in poor neighborhoods, especially involving young kids. They get ammo wherever and scrape it together. They don't always have access to a full box of ammo but gather some bullets here or there whenever they can.

"she is the only eye witness aside from Lang whose story is different in pretty significant ways than SW's story and he's lied 17 times to police."

He lied to police because he initially tried to pretend he was never there. I don't find that unusual. But once he admitted to being there, his story has been consistent.

I don't really care which kid pulled the trigger. They both should be charged and convicted, imo.

There may be some doubt as to if it was Lang OR Elkins, but does it really matter? They both committed armed robbery resulting in the death of the baby. Case closed, imo.

 

[jjenny]

Were they different brands of bullets or different calibre bullets?

Different brands. Same calibre 0.22.

 

[Hickory Born]

I hope the prosecutor has a strong closing statement. One that will prove all this other nonsense is just BS.

Also, I am wondering...where are the child protection advocates. Why aren't they marching in the streets?

 

[AngelWings444]

Were they different brands of bullets or different calibre bullets?

Same caliber! .22 - Caliber. Same caliber as the bullets found in the defendants pocket when he was arrested.

 

[noZme]

I believe in the the laws of the US. I believe everyone should get a fair defense.

I also believe Gough's courtroom tactics (antics) are slimey. His "style" was very offensive to me. Saying to a murdered baby's mom "You will agree although early & whatever ( I will search for the exact quote) the baby's death was merciful?"
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

As I posted earlier, the implication was Little Antonio died immediately so he didn't suffer. And that makes it OK to Gough?.... Disgusting!

 

[westie mom]

I hope the prosecutor has a strong closing statement. One that will prove all this other nonsense is just BS.

From your fingertips to God's ears...

Prayers tonight for peace for Sherry and Luis, the Prosecutor for wisdom in preparation for her Closing in the morning, and especially for what I am sure is a fine Cobb County jury (read: typically VERY conservative in nature) to have the wisdom to see through all of the smoke, mirrors and get past the absolute STENCH of all the BS that Gough has littered them with over the past 2 weeks. I know that if I were a juror in this case, I would feel the need for a looooong, hot shower every night after listening to his garbage...

Westie Mom

 

[momrids6]

I am very upset this trial was moved out of my judicial circuit. Imo, they chose to live here, and the victims are from here- so the trial should be here. My tax dollars are paying for this trial- and the addt'l cost for the move. Many here have formally asked for an investigation as to why exactly this trial was moved. The standard "prejudicial" is not cutting it. I am sure the Cobb county jury will do a fine job- but so would the residents of this circuit.

 

[vlpate]

Problem is, she told investigators she never saw the face of the 'five year old' boy. How do yo explain Long saying the baby was screaming and SW always maintaining he was asleep? Too much doubt...IMO

"SW points out two different shooters,"

BOTH of them were involved in the crime. It is not like she pointed out two random, different unconnected people. She recognized BOTH of the kids who were present while they committed an armed robbery.

I think by law, BOTH OF THEM can be charged with murder. It does not even matter which one pulled the trigger if they both took part in an armed robbery which resulted in MURDER.




"...the bullets don't match,"



That is not that unusual in poor neighborhoods, especially involving young kids. They get ammo wherever and scrape it together. They don't always have access to a full box of ammo but gather some bullets here or there whenever they can.

"she is the only eye witness aside from Lang whose story is different in pretty significant ways than SW's story and he's lied 17 times to police."

He lied to police because he initially tried to pretend he was never there. I don't find that unusual. But once he admitted to being there, his story has been consistent.

I don't really care which kid pulled the trigger. They both should be charged and convicted, imo.

There may be some doubt as to if it was Lang OR Elkins, but does it really matter? They both committed armed robbery resulting in the death of the baby. Case closed, imo.