GUILTY GA - Eight family members brutally murdered in Brunswick home, 29 Aug 2009

[sigsky]

Here is an anniversary story from the Brunswick News. I am continually amazed by how little we know after a year. When will this go to trial? This is a perfect example of how our justice system has been allowed to stagnate. In what other country would this case not have been tried by now? If I were 20 years younger, I would move to New Zealand.

http://dailyme.com/story/2010082800001476/deadly-saturday.html:furious:

 

[annmarie62]

Here is an anniversary story from the Brunswick News. I am continually amazed by how little we know after a year. When will this go to trial? This is a perfect example of how our justice system has been allowed to stagnate. In what other country would this case not have been tried by now? If I were 20 years younger, I would move to New Zealand.

http://dailyme.com/story/2010082800001476/deadly-saturday.html:furious:

I agree with you completely (by the way, my best friend is married to a tropical research scientist who works for the Smithsonian, and they have lived literally all over the world, have been pretty much everywhere, and she tells me that the most beautiful place on earth is New Zealand-- so you may be on to something, lol!!)... Anyway, Glynn Co. infuriates me as well; the public has a right to be updated on this case, but all we get are excuses. I am SO GLAD the GBI refused to take the blame for "lab delays"; I'll bet more than one head will roll in that police dept. before this is over. The GBI is known for its integrity and professionalism-- it's NOT a good thing to p*ss them off! Their comments refuting Glynn Co.'s stalling and spinning made that PD look like fools!!! WHAT IS THE INCRIMINATING 'EVIDENCE'?? This is getting ridiculous.:furious
O/T but I love your Gamecocks avatar- my oldest son will graduate from USC this year, so I like that school... notice I didn't say "love"- I reserve my love for the Univ. of GA, where I went to college, GO DAWGS! :dance

 

[oceanblueeyes]

There is no officially released document, piece of evidence of any kind that links Guy Heinze to the crime.

I really enjoyed your writing "I wonder how strong the case against Guy Jr is," I have been wondering that since Early September 2009.

Nothing but a rather strong statement "We have two pieces of evidence" that leads me to believe ... we have the right man - something like that. I shouldn't use quotes. He was so *advertiser censored*-sure of himself.
That's from Chief Doerring almost a year ago.

But you have to consider Greg they already had the two linking pieces of evidence that caused him to be arrested.

After then, I have no doubt that many more pieces of evidence have now come back against him. Also more witnesses that may have seen, knew and heard things.

If the state doesn't test all the evidence they have collected the defense attorney will simply spin it in the trial and try to say (example) "Well you didn't test this item or another one did you, so how do you know what the results would have revealed?" IMO, they dont need all of this evidence tested to convict him but they must remove any reasonable doubt when they know the defense attorney will try to use it to muddle up the case. That happens in all cases I keep up with and not just this one.

When he was arrested on either charge a Judge had to believe there was probable cause for the arrest or he wouldn't have been arrested.

I know some (not directed at you) seem to think that Georgia is some backwood state but that is absolutely not true. Georgia is one of the fastest growing states in the nation.

If everyone will just give the State a chance to put on their case and the evidence against this man then imo you are going to know they had Jr dead on, all along.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree with you completely (by the way, my best friend is married to a tropical research scientist who works for the Smithsonian, and they have lived literally all over the world, have been pretty much everywhere, and she tells me that the most beautiful place on earth is New Zealand-- so you may be on to something, lol!!)... Anyway, Glynn Co. infuriates me as well; the public has a right to be updated on this case, but all we get are excuses. I am SO GLAD the GBI refused to take the blame for "lab delays"; I'll bet more than one head will roll in that police dept. before this is over. The GBI is known for its integrity and professionalism-- it's NOT a good thing to p*ss them off! Their comments refuting Glynn Co.'s stalling and spinning made that PD look like fools!!! WHAT IS THE INCRIMINATING 'EVIDENCE'?? This is getting ridiculous.:furious
O/T but I love your Gamecocks avatar- my oldest son will graduate from USC this year, so I like that school... notice I didn't say "love"- I reserve my love for the Univ. of GA, where I went to college, GO DAWGS! :dance

The GBI are spinmasters also. Imo they are backlogged. You can better believe if they got this evidence processed then others cases were placed on the back burner. And conveniently they failed to tell the media just how long it had taken them to complete this. This case is almost a year old. So the GBI's little PR move doesn't impress me as I am sure it does others since I am a lifelong citizen of Georgia and have known them to be backlogged on many cases. They just lucked out on this one case and ran with it to the media imo.

I don't recall the GBI director saying that the State was stalling.

I am puzzled why you think the public has a right to know anything. Right now in the Beason Illinois Mass Murder case, which happened within days of this crime, not a word has come out after the arrest were made. Georgia is not a sunshine law state and most states aren't.

In both of the cases the defense attorneys wanted gag orders in place and it was granted.

By doing so it protects the integrity of the case and also the most important thing it does... it protects the defendant beforehand from being prejudiced before trial. So the gory details and evidence will come out but where it is supposed to be released. In a courtroom and from the witnesses on the stand in front of 12 jurors,,,the public and the press.

The DA that now is in charge of the Heinz case is new. The person keeping up with the evidence received back from the GBI failed to update the list. I have no doubt that has now been corrected.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Does there have to be a probable cause statement for his arrest on the murder charges?

There would have to be one for his other charges but because his murder charges were handed down by the grand jury on a true bill does the true bill replace the probable cause statement?

He was not arrested on murder until after the grand jury returned the true bill .
I ask so much because to get a grand jury to hand down a true bill one needs very little in probable cause. We know there was hours of testimony but unless the grand jury was having a hard time with what was presented it doesn't make any sence. They only need a reasonable presumption the person could of committed the crime.
If evidence was what LE tryed to make one believe, unquestionable Why so long and why no probable cause statement.


I don't know if the is one or if they can skip it because of the true bill but if they did skip it I find that suspicious. They held him until he was almost released instead of issueing a probable cause statement and holding him like that instead they had to grand jury it and risk letting him out on bond for his other charges.

Am I over reading things? See a probable cause statement would just make all this go away in my head.

I have been on a Grand Jury and actually quite a bit is learned in one. Of course it is not as in depth as a criminal trial and it isn't supposed to be. The GJs decides if the case warrants going forward.

Usually the lead detective will testify laying out the case and what they had discovered at the time. Then there may be a couple of lay witnesses and then the ME will tell the condition the bodies were found and what he believes was the MOD/COD.

Grand Jurors are also allowed to ask the witnesses questions to seek further clarification.

When a GJ indicts no probable cause hearing is necessary. The jury has already found that they believe probable cause exist.

I think Grand Jurors take their oaths seriously and would not true bill a case unless they really believed there was substantial probable cause for the case to go forward to a trial.

The arrest warrant will have an affidavit attached to it. That is where the lead detective list why the arrest is being made. I hope in the future we will get to see his statement issued at that time because usually it lays out a lot of information that we haven't known all this time.

IMO

 

[sigsky]

OBE,

Quoting the 6th amendment to the constitution:

“In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.”

Read more here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution


Obviously, this is open to wide interpretation, so everyone will not see it as I do. At this point (more than a year), the lack of information does much more to protect the prosecution than it does the defendant. This smacks of the way the accused rights are protected in Russia, China, Iran, add your own favorites. Sorry to be so snippy this morning but its raining or I would be out playing golf.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

OBE,

Quoting the 6th amendment to the constitution:

“In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.”

Read more here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution


Obviously, this is open to wide interpretation, so everyone will not see it as I do. At this point (more than a year), the lack of information does much more to protect the prosecution than it does the defendant. This smacks of the way the accused rights are protected in Russia, China, Iran, add your own favorites. Sorry to be so snippy this morning but its raining or I would be out playing golf.

Morning!

Jr. did not opt for a speedy trial which was most certainly his right to do so. If he wanted a speedy trial then his lawyer would have filed a motion to do so based on what Jr wanted.

He is not being discriminated against. Death penalty cases usually have a long gap between the crime and when the trial commences. (2-3 years) It gives both parties ample time to investigate their case. Many more motions are filed in DP cases than other cases.

He most certainly will be able to confront the witnesses against him and he has legal representation who will do so during his trial.

Heinz does know what the allegations are. He was in court and told of those charges by the presiding Judge. Heinz at that time entered "Not Guilty."

Personally I disagree. When a defendant is protected from prejudice that is a good thing. So many cases are tried in the media way before the case happens and LE leaks detrimental evidence they have against the defendant. That is not protecting the defendant nor is releasing any evidence against him beforehand, that could prevent him from getting a fair trial.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I am very proud of my state and the way they have handled this case. This is one of the most notorious cases in Georgia ever due to the amount of victims murdered.

Now when the potential jurors walk into that courtroom and is asked by both sides, what they have heard about this case, they can honestly say they have heard nothing except this defendant is accused of murdering these people and they died from being bludgeoned. That's it.

How refreshing when so many potential jurors are excused throughout our country today because they know way too much because of pre-trial publicity.

IMO

 

[Soulmagent]

There is no officially released document, piece of evidence of any kind that links Guy Heinze to the crime.

I really enjoyed your writing "I wonder how strong the case against Guy Jr is," I have been wondering that since Early September 2009.

Nothing but a rather strong statement "We have two pieces of evidence" that leads me to believe ... we have the right man - something like that. I shouldn't use quotes. He was so *advertiser censored*-sure of himself.
That's from Chief Doerring almost a year ago.

But you have to consider Greg they already had the two linking pieces of evidence that caused him to be arrested.

After then, I have no doubt that many more pieces of evidence have now come back against him. Also more witnesses that may have seen, knew and heard things.

If the state doesn't test all the evidence they have collected the defense attorney will simply spin it in the trial and try to say (example) "Well you didn't test this item or another one did you, so how do you know what the results would have revealed?" IMO, they dont need all of this evidence tested to convict him but they must remove any reasonable doubt when they know the defense attorney will try to use it to muddle up the case. That happens in all cases I keep up with and not just this one.

When he was arrested on either charge a Judge had to believe there was probable cause for the arrest or he wouldn't have been arrested.

I know some (not directed at you) seem to think that Georgia is some backwood state but that is absolutely not true. Georgia is one of the fastest growing states in the nation.

If everyone will just give the State a chance to put on their case and the evidence against this man then imo you are going to know they had Jr dead on, all along.

IMO

OBE . They only had 2 pieces of evidence that Doering mentioned. There was not any more.

Also a judge did not have to believe there is a probable cause at the time of the arrest as his arrest warrent was issued after his grand jury hearing. The judge released him on his other charges.

The GBI are spinmasters also. Imo they are backlogged. You can better believe if they got this evidence processed then others cases were placed on the back burner. And conveniently they failed to tell the media just how long it had taken them to complete this. This case is almost a year old. So the GBI's little PR move doesn't impress me as I am sure it does others since I am a lifelong citizen of Georgia and have known them to be backlogged on many cases. They just lucked out on this one case and ran with it to the media imo.

I don't recall the GBI director saying that the State was stalling.

I am puzzled why you think the public has a right to know anything. Right now in the Beason Illinois Mass Murder case, which happened within days of this crime, not a word has come out after the arrest were made. Georgia is not a sunshine law state and most states aren't.

In both of the cases the defense attorneys wanted gag orders in place and it was granted.

By doing so it protects the integrity of the case and also the most important thing it does... it protects the defendant beforehand from being prejudiced before trial. So the gory details and evidence will come out but where it is supposed to be released. In a courtroom and from the witnesses on the stand in front of 12 jurors,,,the public and the press.

The DA that now is in charge of the Heinz case is new. The person keeping up with the evidence received back from the GBI failed to update the list. I have no doubt that has now been corrected.

IMO

There is NOT a gag order on this case.
http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2010-05-26/story/guy-heinze-jr-court-glynn-mass-murder-case

Also could you post some link to examples of the GBI spinmastering things? I am not a GA resident so have no clue what that could be referring to.

The public knowing things is very important,it is the checks and balance agaisnt corruption If it looks like a fish ,and smells like a fish, lets drag it out of the water and have a look.

So we have a questionable arrest (really they were clueless the first 3 days) Then a very confident "he and he alone" commited a very awful crime single handedly without injury. Motive released and retracted.

Only two pieces of evidence point towards Guy (nothing else at first because labs are not back) in the worst crime scene even the seasoned detectives had ever seen. And then the GBI outing Glynn county out in their "mistake"

I am glad OBE that you have as much faith in the court ,LE and the justice system. I would call it blind faith. I want beyound a reasonable doubt, not most likely and in their opinion.

Guy lied about his alibi..his lie is now evidence.

He said his family was beat to death.
That alone could be what Doering convinced hisself Guy is quilty before labs result came in. And would be enough for the grand jury to indict.

Evidence does not have to be a bloody towel or anything tangiable.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

OBE . They only had 2 pieces of evidence that Doering mentioned. There was not any more.

Also a judge did not have to believe there is a probable cause at the time of the arrest as his arrest warrant was issued after his grand jury hearing. The judge released him on his other charges.





There is NOT a gag order on this case.
http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2010-05-26/story/guy-heinze-jr-court-glynn-mass-murder-case

Also could you post some link to examples of the GBI spinmastering things? I am not a GA resident so have no clue what that could be referring to.

The public knowing things is very important,it is the checks and balance against corruption If it looks like a fish ,and smells like a fish, lets drag it out of the water and have a look.

So we have a questionable arrest (really they were clueless the first 3 days) Then a very confident "he and he alone" committed a very awful crime single handedly without injury. Motive released and retracted.

Only two pieces of evidence point towards Guy (nothing else at first because labs are not back) in the worst crime scene even the seasoned detectives had ever seen. And then the GBI outing Glynn county out in their "mistake"

I am glad OBE that you have as much faith in the court ,LE and the justice system. I would call it blind faith. I want beyond a reasonable doubt, not most likely and in their opinion.

Guy lied about his alibi..his lie is now evidence.

He said his family was beat to death.
That alone could be what Doering convinced himself Guy is guilty before labs result came in. And would be enough for the grand jury to indict.

Evidence does not have to be a bloody towel or anything tangiable.

Thank you for the correction on the gag order. That is what I get for assuming since Jr.'s attorney filed the motion on September 28, 2009 and from that time neither the defense attorney, DA nor the police have spoken publicly about the evidence in the case.

I did see where the Judge told each of these parties in the May hearing to not discuss the case publicly and it seems they are all abiding by that. So I guess they all have agreed to impose their own gag order.

Yes, Doering had two pieces of evidence at the time and that led to him being arrested. I am sure he told the Grand Jurors what they had uncovered at that time.

It is a well known fact for those who have lived in Georgia for years that the GBI has backlogs and they even recently closed two major crime labs due to the economy.

I will try to find an article for you.

I don't agree that the public has a right to know about any evidence collected in a case. The only ones that need to know about the evidence are the parties concerned including the presiding Judge and the future 12 empaneled jurors. If the defense wants to question the evidence then that too is done in the trial. I don't assume that there is corruption when I have nothing to base it on.

The public does have a right though to be present at all pretrial hearings. I don't agree with Jr's attorney about wanting all proceedings secretive. So as the hearings go forward we will get snippets of information that comes from the press when they are in a public courtroom and from others who may speak out that are in attendance.

IMO, what two pieces of evidence they had back then was very convincing and compelling evidence and when they received that it led to his arrest.

Yes, I do have faith. I have no reason not to do so. This isn't the first arrest they have made or the first trial they have done where in the trial they showed beyond a reasonable doubt who the murderer was. IMO, yes they are going to prove that Jr did this crime and did it solely on his own. That is not blind faith.........that is my heatfelt opinion.

Bloody crime scenes, although horrible, leave behind some of the best evidence against the perpetrator and imo they have much more than just forensics against this man.

I have always felt this man did this crime even before they arrested him for it. The case must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt of course and I have no reason to believe it wont be but if not he goes free. That is the way it works.


IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Posted: 7:52 PM Mar 3, 2010

Budget cuts creating GBI lab backlog, stalling prosecution
DA: Science in major cases taking hit

The Gwinnett County District Attorney’s Office relies on the GBI for testing in nearly every criminal case, from alleged crimes involving blood-alcohol levels to bullet residue. The lone exception is misdemeanor marijuana cases, said District Attorney Danny Porter.

The GBI’s backlog in January was 5,700 cases — a figure expected to swell to 8,420 in three years — which officials say is a direct result of budget constraints.

The backlog, coupled with a rise in the sheer number of Gwinnett cases, has increasingly gummed prosecution in Gwinnett since about 2005, especially in drug cases, Porter said.

Most worrisome, Porter said, is that the science required to prosecute some high-profile crimes has taken a particular hit.

Porter didn’t venture to guess how many Gwinnett cases are hinging on GBI crime lab reports.

http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/home/headlines/86295972.html

Now this just pertains to the backlogged cases concerning Gwinnett County only. Georgia has 181 counties iirc.

IMO

 

[Belinda]

I think the DA is having a real hard time coming with the evidence to go to trial. Hence blaming the lab for a backlog. The lab clearly stated that all evidence presented to them has been processed and was processed ahead of everything else. So, the DA is stalling. Why is that? I think it's because they don't have the goods and are trying desperately to find some.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think the DA is having a real hard time coming with the evidence to go to trial. Hence blaming the lab for a backlog. The lab clearly stated that all evidence presented to them has been processed and was processed ahead of everything else. So, the DA is stalling. Why is that? I think it's because they don't have the goods and are trying desperately to find some.

I don't agree with that at all. No DA is infallible. He is human just like anyone else. He is new so he assumed at the time that the person in charge of keeping up the GBI lab results was doing so. Evidently they weren't but I have no doubt that error has been corrected now and will not happen again.

All it takes is blood to be found on the hidden shotgun that belonged to the victims or his bloody fingerprints in areas he told police he didn't go into. Or his hairs to be found on the victim or their bloody clothing. They can even lift bloody fingerprints off of the victims clothing of the suspect. Also there may be evidence of clean up in the bathroom that has a mixture of the victims and his DNA. The possibilities are endless in this case due to it being a very bloody crime scene. Luminol I have no doubt was used. It is amazing what it can show.

Usually the state will send half of their evidence they have to be tested first and then wait for the results rather than sending all of it at one time. Now that this new DA is aware that the GBI has returned all that was sent they will now send the rest. This case will not even be tried for probably a year.

It is in the defense's favor if the results don't come back before trial for no matter what it is, it cant be used by the state against Heinz Jr.

IMO, they already have the evidence to link him to the crime and more imo but they are aware that everything gathered must be tested or the defense will spin it that because it wasnt tested no one knows what it would have revealed. Simple defense strategy that is used in most cases.

I remember in the Michael Peterson trial the defense tried to make a big deal out of Katheryn's cell phone not being tested for forensic evidence. Never mind the state had MP shorts that showed blood splatter and blood splatter patterns all over the walls when he pushed her down the stairs.

Yes, the GBI did send the results back on this case but how long did it take them. This case is a year old. They conveniently didn't say how long it had been that everything was finally done and sent.

However those like DA Porter have to be pushed to the back burner on their cases. The GBI may not be backlogged on this case but with a 181 counties waiting they sure are backlogged and that has been going on for years.

The DA will be ready.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I would think the families have been told generally what LE found once they entered the home.

This is interesting and it is as I thought. I think everyone was asleep and the only one that got up after being attacked was Michael. God rest his soul.

Apparently attacked while they slept, seven died where they fell: Rusty Toler, 44; his son, Russell Toler Jr., 20; Chrissy Toler, 22; Michelle Toler, 15; Rusty Toler's sister Brenda Gail Falagan, 49; Chrissy Toler's boyfriend Joseph L. West Jr., 30; and Rusty Toler's longtime friend, Guy Heinze Sr., 45.

http://jacksonville.com/news/georgi...s-new-hope-mass-murder-mourned-one-year-later

 

[Soulmagent]

I had a huge post typed up and the interent ate it.

In this link it states the officers are not sharing much information with the families.

http://jacksonville.com/news/georgi...ms-new-hope-mass-murder-mourned-one-year-late.

In another link on page 1 of this thread there is a description of the crime scene which makes it questionable that the entire family were sleeping. Apparently the statement about it being apparent they were sleeping is made by someone who believes the only way for guy to have commited this is if they were all sleeping.
Of course if people sleep in kitchens (2 people ) then they all could have been. Victim # 4 fought back while awake.

The GBI crime lab being back up amid state cut backs is not them being spinmasters.

I thought by saying that you meant they were purposely misleading the residents of Georgia to believe unfactual information somehow and had a specific example of that.
I do not at this point believe the GBI had any reason to refute that accusation agaisnt them by Glynn county other than Glynn county was giving unfactual information about the hold up in Guy heinze Jr's discovery under his due process laws.
How could they really even spin that? Either, they have gotten the work out and back to glynn county or they havent and being as they contacted the media I kinda believe them which makes me think I dont believe Glynn county.

Also Guy lived in this place with all the victims. Finger prints can last a very long time dna ,his ,theirs and whoever brushed there teeth in that sink could very well be in their . People cut themselves shaving and gums can bleed when you brush your teeth and people rinse bloody cuts off in sinks before applying a band aide. They are bound find examples of this in this sink drain. They have to know that. I can see this case being a DNA nightmare for both sides.
Whats is normal, above normal ,and then factor in the reality that unnormal things happen everyday that could lead to DNA not being in projected limits.
I am not sure how they are allowed to use DNA evidence in cases where the victims and the murderer all lived together. I do believe there are guidelines but I am not sure what those are.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I had a huge post typed up and the interent ate it.

In this link it states the officers are not sharing much information with the families.

http://jacksonville.com/news/georgi...ms-new-hope-mass-murder-mourned-one-year-late.

In another link on page 1 of this thread there is a description of the crime scene which makes it questionable that the entire family were sleeping. Apparently the statement about it being apparent they were sleeping is made by someone who believes the only way for guy to have committed this is if they were all sleeping.
Of course if people sleep in kitchens (2 people ) then they all could have been. Victim # 4 fought back while awake.

The GBI crime lab being back up amid state cut backs is not them being spinmasters.

I thought by saying that you meant they were purposely misleading the residents of Georgia to believe unfactual information somehow and had a specific example of that.
I do not at this point believe the GBI had any reason to refute that accusation against them by Glynn county other than Glynn county was giving unfactual information about the hold up in Guy heinze Jr's discovery under his due process laws.
How could they really even spin that? Either, they have gotten the work out and back to glynn county or they haven't and being as they contacted the media I kinda believe them which makes me think I don't believe Glynn county.

Also Guy lived in this place with all the victims. Finger prints can last a very long time dna ,his ,theirs and whoever brushed there teeth in that sink could very well be in their . People cut themselves shaving and gums can bleed when you brush your teeth and people rinse bloody cuts off in sinks before applying a band aide. They are bound find examples of this in this sink drain. They have to know that. I can see this case being a DNA nightmare for both sides.
Whats is normal, above normal ,and then factor in the reality that unnormal things happen everyday that could lead to DNA not being in projected limits.
I am not sure how they are allowed to use DNA evidence in cases where the victims and the murderer all lived together. I do believe there are guidelines but I am not sure what those are.

As it is stated LE does not tell the families about the specific evidence they have found during the investigation. They will however give them a general overview. Such as what they saw when they went in and how they found their loved ones. I dont think it is an assumption by the family member at all but what they were told by LE.

The State is given wide latitude in order to prove their case since they have the burden of proof. The Judge will not disallow any forensic evidence showing the defendant did these crimes.

It doesn't matter if the defendant and the victims lived together in the same dwelling. Unfortunately when people are murdered it is often someone known to them and lived in their own homes. They will discover evidence just like they do when a parent kills a child or a child kills their parents or a husband or wife kills their spouse inside their homes. Typical everyday DNA is not what they search for. It is DNA that shouldn't be there if they had no part in the crime.

IMO, they are going to narrow the deaths to around 12 or 1 am. I think they have witnesses who will bolster this time line and the ME also will estimate that to be the time, imo. Blood begins to congeal rather quickly, pool and dry to a darkened almost blackish color by then. And adding in the heat factor in the home the blood would dry even faster. So if they found fresh bloody fingerprints or shoe prints on the victims, walls, bathroom and carpet of the defendant's then they know those wouldn't have been made after he came back and found them. By then the blood would be dark, thick and sticky and the prints would show that he had touched or stepped in dry thick blood.

IMO, the GBI did spin it. They tried to make it look like they were caught up and weren't backlogged in general. I believe they did luck out and get this tests results back on this case and I also believe what the new DA said as to why he was unaware that all of it had been returned.

It is solely up to the Judge to see that discovery comes in. Imo, she understood that the DA is new and he will make sure now that the person in charge of the GBI inventory list is kept up to date. The State only has to give the defense the results of the tests that they are going to use at trial. If the defense wishes for other things to be tested they will file a motion with the court to do so. They also can request that they be provided with their own expert that may want to do further testing trying to refute the results. Discovery must all be in 30 days before a trial and that is a long way off.

In the Laurean case they didn't even test the supposedly murder weapon until this year and the crime happened in December 2007. The test results came back from the lab 19 days before trial and the Judge in that case allowed it in. So far I have seen nothing to show me that lackadaisical attitude will happen here. I think they all will be ready to go by trial time.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Also I have seen in other cases if test results come back even after the trial starts it can be allowed in if the Judge rules it is new discovery evidence that the state didn't have when the 30 day cutoff line came.

IMO

 

[Soulmagent]

the GBI did spin it. They tried to make it look like they were caught up and weren't backlogged in general. I believe they did luck out and get this tests results back on this case and I also believe what the new DA said as to why he was unaware that all of it had been returned.

Snipped from article;

But backlog statistics may paint an unrealistically grim picture. District attorneys can request that cases be expedited by placing a phone call to GBI headquarters, said spokesman John Bankhead.

“We’ve gotten some unfair criticism over that,” Bankhead said.



Keenan concurred, adding the GBI has played “whipping boy” in certain cases district attorneys aren’t interested in moving forward with. Eighty-eight percent of crime lab reports are still completed in 90 days, he said
Our goal is 30 days,” he said

http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/home/headlines/86295972.html




And.

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2010-07-23/story/heinze-case-gbi-refutes-claim-crime-lab-backlog

"Every piece of evidence they've submitted on this case has been processed and completed ... We prioritized it," GBI spokesman John Bankhead told the Times-Union on Friday.

"If they submitted something and it's not been processed, we're not aware of it," said Bankhead, noting they expedited the analysis of the evidence at the request of Glynn County Chief Matt Doering.

Bankhead said it's "not correct" to blame the crime lab, which has a minimal backlog despite the closure of two regional labs because of state cuts to the GBI budget.

"I'm tired of local agencies blaming delays on the crime lab," Bankhead said.




Acting District Attorney David Perry said Friday he apparently had been misinformed when he told Chief Superior Court Judge Amanda Williams during a hearing Thursday that the case has been slowed by the backlog at the crime lab and sheer volume of the evidence needing to be analyzed.

"There is no question there is a disagreement between the information I gave the court and what the crime lab has done .... We're going to get to the bottom of it and straighten it out," Perry told The Times-Union.

Perry said he received a call early Friday from GBI Deputy Director George Herrin, who oversees the state's crime labs, informing him they had completed processing all the evidence they'd been given.

New to the case, Perry said his remarks to Williams were based on an inventory he was given last week listing what evidence had been analyzed, what was at the lab being processed and what items remained in police custody waiting to be submitted to the lab.

Perry said he and police officials on Monday will inventory the evidence and cross-check it with crime lab records. On Aug. 2, he said, they will meet with the lab technicians handling the evidence and GBI officials.

It's possible, he said, the reports were misfiled at the police department after the analysis was completed. The crime lab's computer system, which catalogs evidence by identification numbers, also might be to blame, Perry said.
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I am not seeing a spin by the GbI.


I am seeing an attempt to continue to blame outside forces by the DA. Perry hints at the crime labs computer system being at fault for misfilings.
Back logs are at all state crime labs. It was told to me by an investigater there was a 2 year back log of evidence processing in Virgina.

I didnt feel like he was trying to spin anything when he said the back log was a minimal if 88 percent of the cases are out in 90 days I have to agree. I did feel a little tipsy from reading Perry's explainations.

All it takes is blood to be found on the hidden shotgun that belonged to the victims or his bloody fingerprints in areas he told police he didn't go into. Or his hairs to be found on the victim or their bloody clothing. They can even lift bloody fingerprints off of the victims clothing of the suspect. Also there may be evidence of clean up in the bathroom that has a mixture of the victims and his DNA. The possibilities are endless in this case due to it being a very bloody crime scene. Luminol I have no doubt was used. It is amazing what it can show.

My post about the dna evidence was in direct responce to the types on dna you listed.

As it is stated LE does not tell the families about the specific evidence they have found during the investigation. They will however give them a general overview. Such as what they saw when they went in and how they found their loved ones. I dont think it is an assumption by the family member at all but what they were told by LE.

It has been stated by the familys that LE has not shared information with them. They may have attended some court procedings.

I do not think the family has been told how they found the victims except for what was mentioned in the news.

Being included in an actual investigation I can tell you they dont offer much to victims or suspects everything they offer up is only for court. The often mislead the victims as well as the suspects. It is an awful thing to go though.
If anybody beside the investigater knew that information it could not be information known only to the suspect.

IMO, they are going to narrow the deaths to around 12 or 1 am

They have a narrowed the time of death down and it is stated on a link on pg 1. It was between 9 and 12 I believe.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I am not going to belabor the GBI and my own person opinion of them.

I know more believe that 80% of the evidence that are sent to them is sent back in 90 days.

I highly doubt the Judges in Georgia have one thing against the GBI but they are very use to seeing the backlog. They see the actual dated documents attached when it is sent and when it is sent back by the GBI and they are continually having to stall a case to make sure the evidence comes back so they can be fair to both the state and the defense.

AND it isn't just Georgia. All states having been having backlog problems for years. The NC Laurean case sent the weapon off in January 2010 and got the results back the last of July 2010 and that is just one piece of evidence.

This was an honest mistake and I believe the DAs statement that he will get to the bottom of it and see there are no more problems. I dont think anyone is to blame. It was a mistake and not intentional.

"Perry said he and police officials on Monday will inventory the evidence and cross-check it with crime lab records. On Aug. 2, he said, they will meet with the lab technicians handling the evidence and GBI officials."

Well of course you are entitled to believe as you wish but I do believe the family members would ask where their family members were found and by answering their haunting questions about that has nothing to do with the evidence they found which of course they would not divulge to them.

IMO

 

[Belinda]

This is, after all, the same state where prosecutors tried to railroad Tonya Craft. I don't see the slightest reason why they wouldn't try it again, other than they looked pretty dumb the first time.