GUILTY GA - Jorelys Rivera, 7, Canton, 2 Dec 2011 - #5

[oceanblueeyes]

That is a good question. Can the medical examiner pinpoint death to an "exact" hour? I don't know the science behind that. Are there any experts on here who could answer this?

Since the ME determined that she died within two hours after she was abducted I would imagine she had stomach contents which is the best determinater to narrow time of death.

Usually they cant narrow it down to an exact time and will do a guesstimate. Two hours is actually a tight time of death since there were no witnesses.

IMO

 

[Hickory Born]

IIRC, the police searched the complex 'through the night' Friday night and that they went through the vacant apartments Friday night ... and saw the 'nose bleed' amount of blood and what they thought was poo around the toilet. Jorelys was already in the dumpster while cops were there. Or at the very least, she was no longer in that apartment.

Let me see if I can find a link.

According to this Atlanta Journal article the "nosebleed" blood was not spotted until Sat. Dec. 3 the following day.
http://www.ajc.com/news/cherokee/deputy-disciplined-in-rivera-1262039.html

Now I will search for an article where it was said the stopped searching on Friday night.

 

[milagoddess]

http://www.ajc.com/news/cherokee/death-of-jorelys-rivera-1253029.html

(tears)

snipped:

Jorelys, who attended Canton Elementary School, was a bubbly girl with a sweet personality who loved to write letters to her mother and teacher, according to those who knew her best.

"I love you mom and I want a dog," her aunt, Rosa Soto-Torres, said Jorelys recently wrote in a note.

And though she was only 7, Jorelys never went anywhere without her purse, Soto-Torres said.

"She would steal my nail polish when she was in my home," Soto-Torres said, just outside the Riveras' apartment. "And she loved makeup, eye shadow, anything."

 

[vlpate]

Since the ME determined that she died within two hours after she was abducted I would imagine she had stomach contents which is the best determinater to narrow time of death.

Usually they cant narrow it down to an exact time and will do a guesstimate. Two hours is actually a tight time of death since there were no witnesses.

IMO

There are many ways to determine the time of death, stomach contents is one - others are:
Rate of drying or discoloration of blood pools, Rigor Mortis, Livor Mortis, Algor Mortis, decomposition, insects and plants around the body and even the time on a watch when severe trauma was involved. Temperature (rectal) and Potassium levels are also indicators of time of death.

I'd like to know what time he disposed of her body. IMO, he was going to do a better job cleaning, but there wasn't time. I also wonder if he actually took her to the dumpster from his apartment, or from the trunk of his car. He may have wanted to take her off-site, but ran out of time.

Does LE still have his car?

 

[vlpate]

http://www.ajc.com/news/cherokee/death-of-jorelys-rivera-1253029.html

(tears)

snipped:

Jorelys, who attended Canton Elementary School, was a bubbly girl with a sweet personality who loved to write letters to her mother and teacher, according to those who knew her best.

"I love you mom and I want a dog," her aunt, Rosa Soto-Torres, said Jorelys recently wrote in a note.

And though she was only 7, Jorelys never went anywhere without her purse, Soto-Torres said.

"She would steal my nail polish when she was in my home," Soto-Torres said, just outside the Riveras' apartment. "And she loved makeup, eye shadow, anything."

Did they find her purse? I've not seen it mentioned. IMO, the diary is going to play a big part in this investigation and (hopefully), conviction.

My little grand-baby is the same way, purse and shoes - and she's only 2 1/2 lol

 

[vlpate]

According to this Atlanta Journal article the "nosebleed" blood was not spotted until Sat. Dec. 3 the following day.
http://www.ajc.com/news/cherokee/deputy-disciplined-in-rivera-1262039.html

Now I will search for an article where it was said the stopped searching on Friday night.

IIRC, they searched the vacant units on Saturday, the 3rd, but didn't report it until Sunday, the 4th. I don't believe they searched vacant units on Friday night.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Maybe we should be mailing, emailing every police department in the US to find out what will be their response if a child is abducted. Are they prepared?

I read cya in his response. Just not prepared and the officer who was reprimanded, I've felt it wasn't fair after reading in my opinion what was a disorganized search, sadly. They found Jorelys and I applaud them, it's just sad they hadn't taken this possibility in to consideration before now. jmo

eta, I do understand a small town's sudden growth but there is the internet it holds lots of information.

 

[vlpate]

IMHO, DMAM should shut-up. It is not her place to be giving all this info out to the public, potential jurors, or Brunn's defense attorney (which I feel for certain has someone reading that FB site).

Is this FB page where the kiddie *advertiser censored* on the computer came from (before I blow up the search engine for an MSM link). TYIA

 

[Magdalyn]

According to this Atlanta Journal article the "nosebleed" blood was not spotted until Sat. Dec. 3 the following day.
http://www.ajc.com/news/cherokee/deputy-disciplined-in-rivera-1262039.html

Now I will search for an article where it was said the stopped searching on Friday night.

Yeah, I just read that internal affairs report and it looks like the guys who went through that apartment first showed up at the 'command post' at 6 am Saurday. Presumably a command post was set up before 6 am.

This link has all the Canton Patch articles in reverse order as one long article. It sort of implies police were there/searching overnight. :waitasec:

http://canton-ga.patch.com/articles/girl-7-missing#photo-8600361

Original Report Below 11:29 p.m. Friday
Canton Police are searching for a missing child.

"We currently have officers going door-to-door," Worthy said.

---
Update 7:52 a.m. Saturday


"We are continuing our search again this morning. We don't really have much of an update except that we are still searching for the missing child."

Officers have been searching for Rivera, who was wearing a pink shirt, blue jeans and black boots, since 5:30 p.m. Friday. She stands 3 feet tall and weighs 80 pounds.

---

For all I know, they shut down the search and went home between 12 and 6 am. I've never heard that but that doesn't make it any less true!

But this vague wording above makes it sound like they were there overnight.

And if Jeff Lance is to believed, the complex has been 'sealed off' since Friday night. How could he be sure it was 'sealed off' unless there was police presence there nonstop since Friday night? :waitasec: (Questioning Jeff Lance, not you!)

"However, Lance believes that if officers had not flooded the area and kept close watch over the comings and goings of complex residents, her body might have been smuggled out of the complex and disposed of someplace where it may never have been found."

 

[vlpate]

Maybe we should be mailing, emailing every police department in the US to find out what will be their response if a child is abducted. Are they prepared?

I read cya in his response. Just not prepared and the officer who was reprimanded, I've felt it wasn't fair after reading in my opinion what was a disorganized search, sadly. They found Jorelys and I applaud them, it's just sad they hadn't taken this possibility in to consideration before now. jmo

eta, I do understand a small town's sudden growth but there is the internet it holds lots of information.

She wasn't considered an abduction because no one saw her being abducted. Going by memory, their version of the amber alert requires someone to describe an abductor. I'll have to look at it again. I remember thinking, wth? A missing 7 year old should always prompt an amber alert.

 

[vlpate]

This may have been posted already:

http://www.ajc.com/news/cherokee/canton-police-chief-recounts-1301480.html

"Canton Police officers were looking for a child who might have been hiding or who had perhaps gone to a friend's house without her mother's permission after getting a call last month that 7-year-old Jorelys Rivera was missing.

It would be three days before the grim truth was confirmed: Somewhere between her home and the playground at the River Ridge Apartments, Jorelys was snatched.

A friendly child with an independent streak, Jorelys had a history of running away, according to Canton Police Chief Jeff Lance. "

 

[Dr. Know?]

With so many of the children murdered by a parent, family member or friend, I just thought an LE officer would know to be suspicious of anything and treat each missing child like they have no idea who took them, where they are or if they are hiding. They collect facts and don't eliminate any type of scenerio. Guess I've followed too many of these cases. I'd be leery of all. jmo

 

[Magdalyn]

She wasn't considered an abduction because no one saw her being abducted. Going by memory, their version of the amber alert requires someone to describe an abductor. I'll have to look at it again. I remember thinking, wth? A missing 7 year old should always prompt an amber alert.

Don't mean to butt in :behind:, but I think we're more referring to 'potential abduction' considerations having to do with why CART was not called in overnight Friday night,

Their requirements are:

The occurrence of any of the following may initiate investigative and forensic involvement, assistance or coordination by CART members:

The non-family abduction of a minor child (under the age of 18); or
The abduction of a minor child with endangerment circumstances; or
Any other abduction or missing child investigation that requires immediate response in order to protect the well-being of the child.

 

[Magdalyn]

I did see this from that same Canton Patch continuous reverse order update article, where they 'scaled back' the search Sunday night, to start anew Monday morning. (But knowing what we know now, I think they had around the clock GBI by Sunday night.)

Update 9:10 p.m. Sunday
Teams are scaling back the search for the evening, Canton Police Lt. Jeff Hall said. It will resume at 7 a.m. Monday.

Stay tuned to canton-ga.patch.com for updates.



http://canton-ga.patch.com/articles/girl-7-missing#photo-8600361

 

[milagoddess]

With so many of the children murdered by a parent, family member or friend, I just thought an LE officer would know to be suspicious of anything and treat each missing child like they have no idea who took them, where they are or if they are hiding. They collect facts and don't eliminate any type of scenerio. Guess I've followed too many of these cases. I'd be leery of all. jmo

Exactly, that's what spurred my good ole boy rant...I'm just thinking if she'd been a little white girl, the search would have been more intense. :banghead:

 

[vlpate]

Don't mean to butt in :behind:, but I think we're more referring to 'potential abduction' considerations having to do with why CART was not called in overnight Friday night,

Their requirements are:

The occurrence of any of the following may initiate investigative and forensic involvement, assistance or coordination by CART members:

The non-family abduction of a minor child (under the age of 18); or
The abduction of a minor child with endangerment circumstances; or
Any other abduction or missing child investigation that requires immediate response in order to protect the well-being of the child.

The way I understand it, Canton PD has to enroll in the CART program and go through training prior to the child going missing. Not sure if they were, but if they weren't, then there's your explanation. There's more to it than just dialing them up.

 

[vlpate]

Exactly, that's what spurred my good ole boy rant...I'm just thinking if she'd been a little white girl, the search would have been more intense. :banghead:

I truly do not understand the criticism concerning any aspect of this search. In three days Canton LE, with the help of other law enforcement, not only found her body, but on day four, arrested her killer. There are PLENTY of little white children still missing - and many whose bodies were found with no arrests.

I personally applaud them.

 

[georgiagirl]

Here is Ga's Amber Alert referred to as Levi's Call

http://amber.gbi.georgia.gov/00/channel_modifieddate/0,2096,67865199_67868035,00.html

 

[Magdalyn]

The way I understand it, Canton PD has to enroll in the CART program and go through training prior to the child going missing. Not sure if they were, but if they weren't, then there's your explanation. There's more to it than just dialing them up.

Perhaps, but CART showed up immediately once they were finally called in by ... somebody (either Garrison or Vernon Kennan, I'm not sure) If the truth was Lance wasn't 'allowed' to call it in because he wasn't trained/registered/whatever, he could have had Garrison or Kennan call it in Friday night, IMO.


He also said that the Child Abduction Response Team should have been activated overnight on Dec. 2, the night Jorelys disappeared from a playground at River Ridge at Canton apartment complex, where she lived, and should have been in place in the early morning hours of Dec. 3.

“If all those things had taken place, we would not be standing here having this conversation today about the actions of that deputy,” Garrison said.

When asked whether he thought Canton Police Chief Jeff Lance made a bad call regarding waiting to call the CART team, he declined to comment and repeated his previous statement.
http://mdjonline.com/view/full_stor...n-recommended-for-deputy?instance=home_viewed

 

[Magdalyn]

I found a doc with the chain of events to activate CART.
http://www.georgia.gov/00/press/detail/0,2668,67862954_67866877_161691251,00.html

(It's an attached document file at the bottom of the page of the link I provided.)

Activation of CART:

Ø Missing child reported to local law enforcement agency

Ø Local law enforcement agency contacts the GBI Communications
Center
Ø GBI Communications Center contacts SAC for that region

Ø SAC gathers all information pertaining to missing child

Ø SAC requests activation of CART Team. Activation subject to
Inspector approval.

-----
To me, it sounds like any police department in Georgia can call, then the next step is activated. CART is designed to help any agency who requests their help, from what I understand. The participating agencies (GBI, Dept Natural Resources, etc.) have to be trained and certified to participate in CART, not the police departments.

The exercise will include actual road checks by the Georgia State Patrol, neighborhood canvassing by the GBI, ground searches by the Department of Natural Resources, canine searches by the Department of Corrections (DOC) and the Georgia Emergency Management Agency; sex offender tracking by DOC and the Board of Pardons and Paroles, and investigative support by the Department of Human Services and the Department of Juvenile Justice. The exercise should end by 12:00pm. See attached flow chart for the duties and responsibilities of each of the participating state agencies.

As part of the CART certification, the policies and procedures for all participating member agencies will be evaluated by a three member assessor team.