GUILTY GA - Jorelys Rivera, 7, Canton, 2 Dec 2011 - #5

[marazul]

bbm: I'm no lawyer, but FWIW: I think there are one or two points, usually, at which "probable cause" may have to be "proved" to a judge -- one possibility being the commitment hearing (which I think can be waived by the defendant, not sure) as mentioned in my post just a post or two above. IMO, generally to prove "probable cause" does not require that great heaps of the evidence be revealed.

Thanks. I bet that if RB did do it (which I do believe he did so far) he must be spending his days quite nervous and curious as to how much evidence they have against him if it is true that niether he or his legal team is aware of the full evidence at this point.
On the other hand, if the perp was innocent (I am not pro defense in this case, I am just saying in a theoretical different case) it would be awful not knowing exactly why you are being held until the arraignment or commitment hearing.

 

[cat thief]

I believe it is very relevant whether RB asked for a pic of JR & it's also relevant whether the manager asked him to do so or did he do it on his own accord !

Trivia? Naw . . .

I guess we'll know more once GJ convenes in January . . .

Why is it relevant?

Not being a Smart Alec. I came up with the theory that management asked him to go get a picture. I figured the apartment manager and staff had an obligation to help with the early stages of the search. Manager could have said Ryan go to 1005 and ask the family for a picture so that she can be identified easier.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I'm not being a smart one either but I think it's important to know what he did and didn't do to help search for Jorelys. The one neighbor J. Tosso quoted in the news said he said something like "I thought I was with you" or whatever while showing his co-workers his "wrists". I'd like to know what he was doing and if he was misdirecting anything in finding Jorelys. If there was just blood seen like from a nose bleed, and there were reports of blood all over but possibly cleaned up, only visible with luminol, I really have to know what RB did during this time. Every step, every word and every move.

This is the mind of someone that scares the heck out of me, a mad man. Hope most of this can be documented. I can see why it will take a long time. Tracking his younger years might be vague.

 

[officer'swife 2010]

I'm not being a smart one either but I think it's important to know what he did and didn't do to help search for Jorelys. The one neighbor J. Tosso quoted in the news said he said something like "I thought I was with you" or whatever while showing his co-workers his "wrists". I'd like to know what he was doing and if he was misdirecting anything in finding Jorelys. If there was just blood seen like from a nose bleed, and there were reports of blood all over but possibly cleaned up, only visible with luminol, I really have to know what RB did during this time. Every step, every word and every move.

This is the mind of someone that scares the heck out of me, a mad man. Hope most of this can be documented. I can see why it will take a long time. Tracking his younger years might be vague.

I also agree, I think it is very important we know what he was doing and saying during the timeframe, I do believe I heard on Nancy Grace he was helping search...does anybody have any info about this guy other then him being 20??

 

[cat thief]

I'm not being a smart one either but I think it's important to know what he did and didn't do to help search for Jorelys. The one neighbor J. Tosso quoted in the news said he said something like "I thought I was with you" or whatever while showing his co-workers his "wrists". I'd like to know what he was doing and if he was misdirecting anything in finding Jorelys. If there was just blood seen like from a nose bleed, and there were reports of blood all over but possibly cleaned up, only visible with luminol, I really have to know what RB did during this time. Every step, every word and every move.

This is the mind of someone that scares the heck out of me, a mad man. Hope most of this can be documented. I can see why it will take a long time. Tracking his younger years might be vague.

Understood.:tyou:

 

[cat thief]

I also agree, I think it is very important we know what he was doing and saying during the timeframe, I do believe I heard on Nancy Grace he was helping search...does anybody have any info about this guy other then him being 20??

All I can tell you is go back and skim the threads, start at the beginning and you will learn a lot.

Shoot we had the guys facebook page up for about 4 hours, saws his brothers page and some people were monitoring his friends FB pages (the ones that didn't unfriend him after he was arrested)

Thats why they call this Web Sleuths.

 

[mrsu]

General legal question: when someone is charged with murder and arrested, before the indictment, if this person claims they are not guilty and claims there can be no evidence and they tell this to their attorney, and there is no bond set, does LE or the DA or anyone have to prove to anybody that they have enough evidence to detain them? I know this must sound like such a rookie question, but for example, if I was arrested for murder and told that there is 'evidence against me' and taken to jail, assigned a public defender, and am waiting for arraignment, do I have a right to know what makes them think I am a murderer? Can they just tell me, "we have gathered some evidence and tips, and are confident you are the murderer but you will not learn any more until your formal indictment which may be a month or two away." What if I was truly innocent and didn't know what was going on?

I do not feel that Brunn is innocent, what I am wondering is, does at least his legal team know the nature of the evidence, or does only the judge know?

My feeling is they must have DNA. He doesn't seem like a sophisticated criminal, the closeness of the crime scene/disposal site and blood being found shows some messiness, so I assume some DNA was found, either hers on him, his on hers, both in the crime scene..and the DNA must match because if it didn't, we would be hearing of the search for the match..by now, they must have at least a preliminary match, this is a big case, i am sure they were in a hurry to make sure they have the right guy, so I am convinced there was a match, but I am curious about who officially KNOWS this...just LE and the judge?

If I recall, the defense attorney has to file a motion of discovery where they then receive all the information the prosecution has on the defendant. I believe that RB's lawyer has done this, but I haven't heard if they've been provided with discovery.

Otherwise, I think others have mentioned here, when there is an indictment, the prosecution must divulge their information to the defense. There was some speculation here that the prosecution wouldn't take anything to the grand jury this past session because then the defense would have discovery and the prosecution wanted to hold out on that a bit. After the indictment, the defense can then look over all the information and guide their client on what the next steps should be and how they will plead...guilty, plea bargain, not guilty, etc.

It's also been speculated that if the prosecution does have tons of evidence, RB's lawyer would mainly be working to get the death penalty off the table. As of now, he says RB will plead not guilty. It will be interesting to see if that changes once there is discovery.

 

[Backwoods]

If I recall, the defense attorney has to file a motion of discovery where they then receive all the information the prosecution has on the defendant. I believe that RB's lawyer has done this, but I haven't heard if they've been provided with discovery.

Otherwise, I think others have mentioned here, when there is an indictment, the prosecution must divulge their information to the defense. There was some speculation here that the prosecution wouldn't take anything to the grand jury this past session because then the defense would have discovery and the prosecution wanted to hold out on that a bit. After the indictment, the defense can then look over all the information and guide their client on what the next steps should be and how they will plead...guilty, plea bargain, not guilty, etc.

It's also been speculated that if the prosecution does have tons of evidence, RB's lawyer would mainly be working to get the death penalty off the table. As of now, he says RB will plead not guilty. It will be interesting to see if that changes once there is discovery.

bbm: I don't believe the motion of discovery is filed until after an indictment by the grand jury -- in fact, it may not come until after the arraignment, which would follow the indictment (not sure about this part, though). As I posted earlier, in the meantime, if there is a commitment hearing, the defense (and the media/public) may learn some new information.

And of course there could be some informal exchange of information between prosecution and defense teams at several points along the journey.

Does anyone know whether Brunn has waived his right to a commitment hearing? I would expect not, but it's possible.

 

[bessie]

Thanks. I bet that if RB did do it (which I do believe he did so far) he must be spending his days quite nervous and curious as to how much evidence they have against him if it is true that niether he or his legal team is aware of the full evidence at this point.
On the other hand, if the perp was innocent (I am not pro defense in this case, I am just saying in a theoretical different case) it would be awful not knowing exactly why you are being held until the arraignment or commitment hearing.

As a defendant, you probably wouldn't learn much at a commitment hearing as the DA would reveal only the minimum amount of evidence necessary to show probable cause for the charges against you. Your lawyer would be allowed to question witnesses and eke a out a little more info, but the actual discovery process would not begin until a trial date is set.

 

[Hickory Born]

This is info from a Georgia Defense Attn's website regarding a commitment hearing:

PURPOSE OF A ga
PRELIMINARY HEARING


Purpose of Preliminary Hearing
The purpose of a preliminary hearing (sometimes called a committal or commitment hearing in Georgia) is “simply to determine whether there is probable cause to believe the accused guilty of the crime charged, and if so, to bind him over for indictment by the grand jury.”

The Real Reason To Have a Preliminary Hearing
More often than not, probable cause is established in the eyes of the court of inquiry. So why have a preliminary hearing? Discovery, discovery, discovery! However, you must engage in discovery without appearing to be on a fishing expedition. As long as you conform to the law and rules of evidence, you should be able to get as much discovery as is available.

Rules of Evidence
Superior Court Rule 26.2 says that rules of evidence apply at the preliminary hearing except that hearsay may be allowed. The rule also says that the prosecutor has the burden of proving probable cause. It also says that the defendant shall be allowed to introduce evidence. Moreover, “the court of inquiry shall hear all legal evidence submitted by either party."

Under the rules of evidence, every party has a right to confront witnesses called against him as well as the right to a thorough and sifting cross-examination of those witnesses. If a thorough and sifting cross of the state’s witnesses is not allowed, the testimony of that witness could not be used if the witness is unavailable.

At the hearing, defendant may be represented by counsel, or he may represent himself. If the defendant needs to subpoena witnesses for the preliminary hearing, he can rely on the court to compel attendance of defense witnesses. An accused shall be given a reasonable time to prepare for the hearing. If the hearing is continued to a future date, it appears that if the crime charged is bailable by the court of inquiry, the accused has a right to have bail set at this point.

There is more at:
http://www.georgiadefenders.com/preliminaryhearing.purpose.htm

 

[Hickory Born]

Since witnesses can be called at a commitment hearing, we might be hearing from the roommate at that time.

 

[Angleena]

I believe that RB has the right to make bail if not indicted within 90 days of his arrest. So I would look for seeing either an indictment or a preliminary hearing at the end of the 90 day period.

 

[Dr. Know?]

What? How sad.

CaseSignal Case Signal (BeanE)
Van with fliers for Jorelys Rivera benefit stolen - #JorelysRivera - WSBtv > http://bit.ly/vbVIcu

 

[2door73chevy]

I can't believe they left a 3 month old puppy in a running van alone. SMH

 

[katydid23]

I can't believe they left a 3 month old puppy in a running van alone. SMH

"...said she and her husband parked the van outside of a Quick Trip convenience store on Powder Springs Street in Marietta and left the engine running.
Within minutes, someone jumped in the van and sped off, Thomaston said."

Well DUH. What did they think was going to happen? Why didn't one of them stay with the van. Or lock it? Why leave it RUNNING? Geeeeezzzzz

 

[bunky]

I can't believe they left a 3 month old puppy in a running van alone. SMH

IMO that is NOT what's important. What's important is that Jorely was kidnapped, raped and killed and thrown into a trash compactor. <modsnip>

 

[katydid23]

That is NOT what's important. What's important is that Jorely was kidnapped, raped and killed and thrown into a trash compactor. <modsnip>

I don't think one should discuss what others should or should not post about here. Regardless of the tragic death of Jorelys, this other person can discuss the loss of a puppy as well. IMO

 

[marazul]

I don't think one should discuss what others should or should not post about here. Regardless of the tragic death of Jorelys, this other person can discuss the loss of a puppy as well. IMO

Right..there is no rule that only one sad thing can be lamented at a time.

I confess to leaving my doggie with the heat running while I run in the gas station..my chihuahua gets cold! Not my children, of course, but a puppy in a puppy carrier, yuup I have done it! Maybe I will think twice in the future...

 

[marazul]

I have only posted in this forum, but I have read many others, and this forum stands out because the people here are kind, stay on point, and bring up differences in opinons respectfully. I hope we keep up the good work!

 

[bunky]

This is the best forum of it's kind.

Not all opinons are the same. There are differing opinions on this thread.

A dog left in the car has nothing to do with Jorely's horrible death.

Little Jorely should be getting excited about Santa and Christmas and family.......