GA - Kendrick Johnson, 17, Suspicious Death, Jan. 10/11, 2013, #1

[MissJ]

I just started reading this thread so I apologize if this question sounds stupid...but are they really saying that he "accidentally" fell into a gym mat upside down to get a shoe??? If it were me and I lost my shoe, I would not try to get it out by going upside down in one of those mats....I'd let the shoe go, tell the PE teacher, a coach, principal, someone, before I'd dive in to get it...but thats just me and my opinion. I dont think this kid died "accidentally"...so tragic

I agree. Who would think they would fit into that hole? You don't accidently fall into a hole that small. Someone rolled him up in it and left him. Maybe they thought it was a joke and didn't realize the consequences. JMO

 

[gxm]

I agree. Who would think they would fit into that hole? You don't accidently fall into a hole that small. Someone rolled him up in it and left him. Maybe they thought it was a joke and didn't realize the consequences. JMO

There's not enough time in the timeline for someone to subdue KJ, roll him up in the mat, upend the mat to stand vertically, and place the mat in the center of the stack. And, given how heavy the mats are it would take more than one person. Video shows one student entering the gym before KJ. This student went in the opposite direction and it was confirmed that he went straight to class. Shortly after KJ entered the gym, other students began entering the gym for class. Is it really plausible that an entire class is responsible for putting KJ in the mat, or does it make more sense that KJ wiggled into the small space in an attempt to grab his shoes at the bottom? IMO, it makes more sense that he was trying to get to his shoes and got stuck. If the class had anything to do with it, there would be a lot of witnesses and word would have gotten out by now. JMO. OMO. MOO.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

If I recall correctly--I'll try to find link later--there were more than the two video cameras, but the school has released only the two showing KJ and the other student going into the gym.

Nothing really makes sense in this case, but it makes no sense to me that someone with a 19 inch shoulder span could wiggle himself into an opening 14 inches wide.

Here is Kendrick's father attempting it:

Source: http://www.ebony.com/photos/news-views/who-killed-kendrick-johnson-photos-405#photo-2

 

[momrids6]

If I recall correctly--I'll try to find link later--there were more than the two video cameras, but the school has released only the two showing KJ and the other student going into the gym.

Nothing really makes sense in this case, but it makes no sense to me that someone with a 19 inch shoulder span could wiggle himself into an opening 14 inches wide.

Here is Kendrick's father attempting it:

Source: http://www.ebony.com/photos/news-views/who-killed-kendrick-johnson-photos-405#photo-2

If his arms were above his head, he could fit, gravity helps too. The mats have "give" to them.

 

[Karmady]

If his arms were above his head, he could fit, gravity helps too. The mats have "give" to them.

And it wasn't lying on its side at the time

 

[Montjoy]

If his arms were above his head, he could fit, gravity helps too. The mats have "give" to them.

I'm also unsure (perhaps someone can tell me?) of how we know that the opening in that particular rolled mat was 14 inches? Was the mat not unrolled right away? It's not like a mat could only be rolled with one size of opening -- as with fabric, it could be rolled looser or tighter, depending.

 

[Karmady]

I'm also unsure (perhaps someone can tell me?) of how we know that the opening in that particular rolled mat was 14 inches? Was the mat not unrolled right away? It's not like a mat could only be rolled with one size of opening -- as with fabric, it could be rolled looser or tighter, depending.

That, too. And he WAS in the mat when he was found. So whatever size the opening in the specific mat was, he fit into it. Regardless of whether it was 14" or more.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I'm also unsure (perhaps someone can tell me?) of how we know that the opening in that particular rolled mat was 14 inches? Was the mat not unrolled right away? It's not like a mat could only be rolled with one size of opening -- as with fabric, it could be rolled looser or tighter, depending.

The incident report said it was 14 1/4 across. So that's coming straight from the sheriff's office.

"The center hole in the top of the rolled mat was 14¼ inches in diameter, according to the incident report, but the coroner measured Johnson's shoulders as 19 inches across. "

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id...17-year-old-football-player-valdosta-georgiav

 

[FrayedKnot]

If his arms were above his head, he could fit, gravity helps too. The mats have "give" to them.

Okay. I thought the mats had NO give to them, which is how the SD explained KJ getting stuck in the first place.......:waitasec: you know, tight fit, couldn't get out......

 

[IzzyBlanche]

And there's this:

"The original EMT report had declared the gym a crime scene."

 

[FrayedKnot]

That, too. And he WAS in the mat when he was found. So whatever size the opening in the specific mat was, he fit into it. Regardless of whether it was 14" or more.

Unless he didn't fit into the rolled up mat, but was rolled up into the mat.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Also this, from same link:

Likewise, the sheriff’s department and the school have not released surveillance footage, which they also say would reveal the identity of minors.

Ooops, forgot link.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-t...-developments-in-the-case-of-kendrick-johnson

 

[Montjoy]

Well, for one thing EMTs are not qualified to make conclusions about what is or isn't a crime scene (though if there is a chance of that, they would want the scene treated as such to protect evidence), and likewise, unexplained deaths are typically treated/investigated as homicides until such a determination can be ruled out. I don't think anyone here would consider KJ's death as anything but unusual, but with the benefit of additional information, it was determined to be an unusual and tragic accidental death.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Well, for one thing EMTs are not qualified to make conclusions about what is or isn't a crime scene (though if there is a chance of that, they would want the scene treated as such to protect evidence), and likewise, unexplained deaths are typically treated/investigated as homicides until such a determination can be ruled out. I don't think anyone here would consider KJ's death as anything but unusual, but with the benefit of additional information, it was determined to be an unusual and tragic accidental death.

Yes. Well there is quite a lot of discrepancy between the initial EMT report and the much later report made by the SD.

And since the coroner has as good as expressed concern over the SD's "handling" of this case, I am of the opinion that the EMT report is a very good indicator of the true state of this child's death.

This was no unfortunate accident.

 

[Karmady]

Unless he didn't fit into the rolled up mat, but was rolled up into the mat.

I understand the premise, I'm just not sure that whether a person falls into a mat or is rolled in one makes a huge difference in what the mat can acomodate. Plus, it would appear that the mat opening was measured while the mat was on its side and after it had been moved by the teacher who found him. Under those circumstances, there's no way of knowing the measurement of the actual opening when the mat was vertical and before it was moved. 14.25" might be close, but not completely accurate. Those mats are very heaving and tend to collapse onto themselves quite a bit when they're horizontal. You can see it in some of the mats in the pics.

Also, it's not clear what position his shoulders when in when they were measured after his death. They were almost surely compressed to some extent when he was in the mat.


jmo

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Well, for one thing EMTs are not qualified to make conclusions about what is or isn't a crime scene (though if there is a chance of that, they would want the scene treated as such to protect evidence), and likewise, unexplained deaths are typically treated/investigated as homicides until such a determination can be ruled out. I don't think anyone here would consider KJ's death as anything but unusual, but with the benefit of additional information, it was determined to be an unusual and tragic accidental death.

Even the coroner said he would not have ruled it an accident.

http://www.usnews.com/news/newsgram...-teen-kendrick-johnsons-death-not-an-accident

And EMTs are qualified to notice bruising. Which they did.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/03/us/georgia-teen-death-autopsy/

 

[Montjoy]

And since the coroner has as good as expressed concern over the SD's "handling" of this case, I am of the opinion that the EMT report is a very good indicator of the true state of this child's death.

I'm sorry, but that is a non sequitar.

'A' disagrees with 'B', therefore 'C' (whose expertise is not in making such conclusions) must be correct.

I also must add that 'Grantland' is not MSM. I'd rather stick to the reporting of local MSM rather than the editorialized stuff that has followed -- but that's just my opinion.

 

[momrids6]

Okay. I thought the mats had NO give to them, which is how the SD explained KJ getting stuck in the first place.......:waitasec: you know, tight fit, couldn't get out......

it is like a chinese finger puller game in some ways. The surface of those mats has give- but not a lot. It also depends on how tightly they are rolled. I am not "rooting" for one side or another- I am explaining the mats. Until you have worked with them , it is a bit hard to explain.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

School officials confirm surveillance video shows KJ was not alone in the gym.

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/category/kendrick-johnson/

 

[FrayedKnot]

I'm sorry, but that is a non sequitar.

'A' disagrees with 'B', therefore 'C' (whose expertise is not in making such conclusions) must be correct.

I also must add that 'Grantland' is not MSM. I'd rather stick to the reporting of local MSM rather than the editorialized stuff that has followed -- but that's just my opinion.

Well, I didn't quote "Grantland".

And it is not a non sequitur to say that because the coroner and the EMT both contradict the SD, that the SD is coming off as unreliable.

non se·qui·tur noun \ˈnän-ˈse-kwə-tər also -ˌtu̇r\
: a statement that is not connected in a logical or clear way to anything said before it