GA - Kendrick Johnson, 17, Suspicious Death, Jan. 10/11, 2013, #1

[IzzyBlanche]

In his report Victor Blackwell interviews a detective who points to a picture of a shoe that appears to be clean in a pool of blood. This was a sticking point for me until Izzy was kind enough to post the crime lab report. Now I'm wondering why the discrepancy between that picture (attached), and what is written in the report (Emph. mine):



and



This means the shoe laying atop the blood should be soaked in blood. Photoshop? See the photo, I've marked the hinky area.

The other thing that bugged me was when the detective in the October 9 Anderson Cooper video made mention of the shoe protectors. Apparently he felt they were important when evidence was being collected. The picture of the unprotected shoes, however, also shows the body of KJ completely OUT of the rolled up mat. By the time his body was removed from the mat by the Coroner, the investigators had collected their evidence, so sort of a moot point...IMO

Those look to me like regular shoe sole treads, like tire treads only a bit deeper.

It seems to me that someone photoshopping out bloodstains would have made
sure the photoshopped areas weren't blurry.

 

[vlpate]

by "hinky areas" are you talking about the sole identions marked "what are these?" If so, that's what they are, imo. There's another closer to the toe at the viewer's right of the photo that isn't marked.

You're right, but there are no shadows whatsoever and those three edges are really blurry, not crisp like the rest of the shoe. No blood on the threads of the shoe, even in the tiny writing. Is this supposed to be an actual crime scene photo?

 

[vlpate]

Those look to me like regular shoe sole treads, like tire treads only a bit deeper.

It seems to me that someone photoshopping out bloodstains would have made
sure the photoshopped areas weren't blurry.

LOL NO! They wouldn't have photoshopped out the bloodstains. The other shoe, just like the one that was saturated, had no blood on it - they would have used that one. It's easy to photoshop something like a shoe onto something else - what's hard is knowing where to place shadows and make the edges look right.

 

[vlpate]

So they broke the law, but because "that's how we do it down here", it's no biggie?

Oh, but I see that Prine promised nobody touched KJ's body. So there it is. Nothing to see here. :facepalm:

I don't understand how they broke the law. Even Watson, with all his unprofessional accusations, didn't say they broke the law, did he? I could have missed it. He is an elected official, when he started talking about aspects being "unfair to the taxpayers" and the good people of Valdesta, he was, IMO, making himself look good and everyone else look bad.

From what I understand, there's not a lot of love lost between investigators and coroners if they don't work well together. Seeing as how Watson threw their collective behinds in the grease on National TV, I suspect there's a problem. If not, there's sure to be one now!

The crime scene belongs to investigators, the body belongs to the coroner. There are times he can't get there the minute he is called, the investigators don't sit around and wait for him to start their investigation. In fact, from what I've read, the coroner makes the investigators wait sometimes when he/she is not able to make it right away.

With law enforcement from every agency on the scene, I think it's safe to say no one was covering anything up.

Did you know Watson asked Victor Blackwell (CNN), to destroy that interview? Blackwell just ignored the request. Putting this out there served it's purpose as well - bungled investigation and newspaper in the organs.

I don't think it was right and I don't think waiting to call him was wrong - I really don't think the delay was a conspiracy to cover-up a murder. JMO

 

[vlpate]

Jmo. I believe, from the evidence, and my familiarity with mats like this, that KJ's death was an accident. I understand that the school does not want to release the videos because they are school records, but can they not completely blur/white out the students? Something so simple could end the conspiracy theory and reassure the family and community that LE came to the correct conclusion. Jmo

I do have a question for anyone who has visited sites where they ask for donations. I visited the site made for KJ, and the wording on the donation page was, IMO, strange. They were asking for money to fund their movement for justice for common citizens. ??

The family and the attorney are perfectly able and welcome to view the videos themselves. As of a week ago, the attorney had not viewed them - I'm not sure about the family. So why not just view them and let us know what they show? It's always about someone holding back evidence and that is always supposed to be indicative of a cover-up. It gets old.

 

[vlpate]

No, I haven't seen any valid theory in which it could be an accidental tragedy. I see more likely a murder by students and coverup. Why were his organs removed prior to autopsy??? That right there is fishy.

How was he murdered and stuffed into the mat in that ten minute window of opportunity? I think it would be like trying to stuff a water balloon into a pvc pipe, JMO

 

[vlpate]

I can't state unequivocally that I believe it was murder. I simply don't know.

I do know, though, that there are many aspects of the official theory of KJ's death that don't make sense to me. I've already mentioned them numerous times so I won't repeat them.

Here is my theory of a murder--no, manslaughter--that I believe fits within the known facts and completely disregards the second autopsy.

KJ enters the gym and encounters the students who school officials acknowledge were in the gym at the time. Some sort of altercation ensues, resulting in the bruising on KJ's face noted by the EMTs. A stunned but still alive KJ is stuffed into the mat--most likely not to kill him, but to teach him a lesson or humiliate him--where he dies of positional asphyxia per the autopsy report.

Such an altercation could easily take place within the 10-minute timeframe between KJ entering the gym and the next class coming in, and a few punches thrown would not result in the perpetrators being noticeably covered in blood, either.

Nor does it require those students lying in wait for KJ. It could have simply been a chance encounter.

I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, either. But if it is true what the local poster said upthread, the sheriff had determined within two hours or so of the body being found that it wasn't a result of foul play. That being the case, no conspiracy is required--a lackadaisical investigation that doesn't dig very deep will most certainly not uncover foul play, especially if no foul play is a foregone conclusion already.

Finally, I don't think questioning the actions and statements of a law enforcement official who admits to violating the law requiring prompt notification of the coroner is LE bashing. With that one action he's already damaged his credibility in my eyes and subjected his actions and statements to greater scrutiny than if he hadn't.

What evidence am I ignoring or dismissing? This is not meant sarcastically--we all have blind spots.

I don't recall "officials" saying more than one student entered at the same time KJ did, or that there were students in the gym when he entered. The play on words from the family attorneys "the video shows students in the gym at the same time KJ was" is correct. KJ was in the mat when the students arrived and remained there until well after they left.

Before the students went on their holiday break, KJ had placed his shoes inside that mat, but it was laying down. During the break someone stacked the mats upright which would have placed the one KJ placed his shoes in at the back of the stacks. Instead of pulling down all the mats, he thought he could squeeze in and retrieve them. Even his parents admit he used the mat as a locker. He was going to class - the timing was right. He was changing his shoes, not unusual. There was nothing different about his routine or actions.

Not to mention no defensive wounds. He would have fought hard not to be pushed into the mat against his will, IMO.

Most of all, it just makes way more sense to me than a conspiracy.

 

[Karmady]

Likely and practical, perhaps. Breaking protocol and the law, definitely. And the coroner did not feel he was helped out by this breach. He said it hindered his investigation.

And just because you find the law "stupid" does not mean it's okay to ignore that law.

MOO

Nor does it mean that ignoring a law means that there's been a murder cover-up. My kid will get suspended for taking ibuprofen to school because of the school's zero tolerance policy. I tell her to keep it in her backpack and take it only on passing periods when no one can see her. Lawless like that, I am

 

[Karmady]

You're right, but there are no shadows whatsoever and those three edges are really blurry, not crisp like the rest of the shoe. No blood on the threads of the shoe, even in the tiny writing. Is this supposed to be an actual crime scene photo?

I think I'm the wrong person to answer this question. I think the overall picture is so obvious that it doesn't warrant further consideration of any kind. jmo

 

[al66pine]

It appears Lowndes County coroner is not an MD or DO, per listings from
http://georgiacoronersassoc.org/counties/lowndes and
http://www.lowndescounty.com/content.asp?pid=23&id=536
　
Title 45 § 45-16-1. How elected, commissioned, qualified
http://georgiacoronersassoc.org/legislation-title-45

JM:twocents: and I could be wrong.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Yes, it's jarring (no pun intended) if you're not expecting it. Or even if you are. The morgue I was in had a whole room of metal shelving with what looked like tupperwarish containers full or various organs. And I worked the "graveyard" shift! lol

I visited the ME office literally on a dark and stormy night. After hours, so no one was there except the assistant deputy and my coworker also on the tour.

My coworker seemed to be far more creeped out than I was, but I was creeped out some.

When I got home Mr. Izzy said I smelled funny, but I think that was his overactive imagination.

Sorry to get OT. :smile:

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I don't understand how they broke the law. Even Watson, with all his unprofessional accusations, didn't say they broke the law, did he? JMO

BBM and respectfully snipped for focus:

Not in so many words. But he did say "you may not want me at your crime scene, but that's the law."

 

[al66pine]

Per above link
"§ 45-16-24. Notices of death to coroners or county medical examiners; orders to conduct medical examiner’s inquiries
(a) When any person dies in any county in this state:
(1) As a result of violence;
(2) By suicide or casualty;
(3) Suddenly when in apparent good health;
(4) When unattended by a physician;
(5) In any suspicious or unusual manner, with particular attention to those persons 16 years of age and under;
…
it shall be the duty of any law enforcement officer or other person having knowledge of such death to notify immediately the coroner or county medical examiner of the county in which the acts or events resulting in the death occurred or the body is found. …"
BBM SBM

The sheriff admitted he did not notify coroner immediately.
IMO, looks like poor procedure, but not necessarily compromising the scene or investigation, or indicating a cover up.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

LOL NO! They wouldn't have photoshopped out the bloodstains. The other shoe, just like the one that was saturated, had no blood on it - they would have used that one. It's easy to photoshop something like a shoe onto something else - what's hard is knowing where to place shadows and make the edges look right.

I am sorry. I am obviously confused.

I thought your question was, because the shoe supposedly found at the bottom of the mat in the pool of blood

1. showed no bloodstains in the picture

and

2. was described in the incident report as being blood-saturated

could the image shown on the CNN video have been altered to remove the bloodstains and make the shoe look pristine?

Also in response to the part BBM above, how could the (blood)-saturated shoe have no blood on it?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

How was he murdered and stuffed into the mat in that ten minute window of opportunity? I think it would be like trying to stuff a water balloon into a pvc pipe, JMO

BBM. OK, how did he manage to stuff himself into the mat then?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I don't recall "officials" saying more than one student entered at the same time KJ did, or that there were students in the gym when he entered. The play on words from the family attorneys "the video shows students in the gym at the same time KJ was" is correct. KJ was in the mat when the students arrived and remained there until well after they left.

Before the students went on their holiday break, KJ had placed his shoes inside that mat, but it was laying down. During the break someone stacked the mats upright which would have placed the one KJ placed his shoes in at the back of the stacks. Instead of pulling down all the mats, he thought he could squeeze in and retrieve them. Even his parents admit he used the mat as a locker. He was going to class - the timing was right. He was changing his shoes, not unusual. There was nothing different about his routine or actions.

Not to mention no defensive wounds. He would have fought hard not to be pushed into the mat against his will, IMO.

Most of all, it just makes way more sense to me than a conspiracy.

BBM for focus.

First BBM: IMO that's the $64,000 question. What exactly IS meant by other students being in the gym at the time, which the school officials confirmed? Are they referring to the student seen entering the gym before KJ, or students seen on as-yet unreleased video?

I interpret it as the latter, but there's no real way to know until they release all the video.

Second BBM: In my scenario, he was stunned, in which case he wouldn't have been able to fight against being pushed into the mat. It's just conjecture though.

 

[al66pine]

Short Version:
Said he never got them (did not get them in January, following autopsy #1)

Long Version:
Early Oct. from the cnn.com link upthread:
"Two entities had custody of Kendrick Johnson's body after his death -- the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, which conducted the first autopsy in January; and the Harrington Funeral Home in Valdosta, which handled the teen's embalming and burial.
GBI spokeswoman Sherry Lang told CNN that after the autopsy, "the organs were placed in Johnson's body, the body was closed, then the body was released to the funeral home." That's normal practice, Lang said. BBM

“The funeral home would not comment to CNN. But in a letter to the Johnsons' attorney, funeral home owner Antonio Harrington said his firm never received the teen's organs.” BBM

So there you go, he’s saying he never received them.
MOO, he goes on to speculate about what happened to them, and
in doing so, he seems to contradict himself with his two explanations. Hinky to me.

“Harrington wrote that the organs "were destroyed through natural process" due to the position of Kendrick Johnson's body when he died, and "discarded by the prosector before the body was sent back to Valdosta." A prosector dissects the body for pathological examination." BBM

JM:twocents:

 

[vlpate]

And do we know for a fact that the gym was completely empty when Kendrick entered, that no other students were already there lying in wait for him???

I can only speak for me .... I do not know that. I do know they checked all the students coming and going. This was not the main gym so I don't believe the task of doing so would have been insurmountable. JMO

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I don't understand how they broke the law. Even Watson, with all his unprofessional accusations, didn't say they broke the law, did he? I could have missed it. He is an elected official, when he started talking about aspects being "unfair to the taxpayers" and the good people of Valdesta, he was, IMO, making himself look good and everyone else look bad.

From what I understand, there's not a lot of love lost between investigators and coroners if they don't work well together. Seeing as how Watson threw their collective behinds in the grease on National TV, I suspect there's a problem. If not, there's sure to be one now!

The crime scene belongs to investigators, the body belongs to the coroner. There are times he can't get there the minute he is called, the investigators don't sit around and wait for him to start their investigation. In fact, from what I've read, the coroner makes the investigators wait sometimes when he/she is not able to make it right away.

With law enforcement from every agency on the scene, I think it's safe to say no one was covering anything up.

Did you know Watson asked Victor Blackwell (CNN), to destroy that interview? Blackwell just ignored the request. Putting this out there served it's purpose as well - bungled investigation and newspaper in the organs.

I don't think it was right and I don't think waiting to call him was wrong - I really don't think the delay was a conspiracy to cover-up a murder. JMO

BBM. I didn't know this. Would you provide the source? To paraphrase Montjoy, it's not that I don't believe you but I would like to read it for myself.

I appreciate the info you've brought to the forum. The letter from Leigh Touchton has caused me to disregard any results from the second autopsy, and I do intend when I have time to research what she says about Anderson's professional record.

 

[vlpate]

Short Version:
Said he never got them (did not get them in January, following autopsy #1)

Long Version:
Early Oct. from the cnn.com link upthread:
"Two entities had custody of Kendrick Johnson's body after his death -- the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, which conducted the first autopsy in January; and the Harrington Funeral Home in Valdosta, which handled the teen's embalming and burial.
GBI spokeswoman Sherry Lang told CNN that after the autopsy, "the organs were placed in Johnson's body, the body was closed, then the body was released to the funeral home." That's normal practice, Lang said. BBM

“The funeral home would not comment to CNN. But in a letter to the Johnsons' attorney, funeral home owner Antonio Harrington said his firm never received the teen's organs.” BBM

So there you go, he’s saying he never received them.
MOO, he goes on to speculate about what happened to them, and
in doing so, he seems to contradict himself with his two explanations. Hinky to me.

“Harrington wrote that the organs "were destroyed through natural process" due to the position of Kendrick Johnson's body when he died, and "discarded by the prosector before the body was sent back to Valdosta." A prosector dissects the body for pathological examination." BBM

JM:twocents:

King was made to pay just under $100k once for bringing a case without ever turning over discovery - I believe nothing the man says. Would love to see the actual letter.