GA - Kendrick Johnson, 17, Suspicious Death, Jan. 10/11, 2013, #1

[Linda7NJ]

A statement that I am having a great deal of trouble with is the one stating the organs were too decomposed so they were discarded...

Too decomposed for WHAT?

My thought is... The internal organs are not "on show" at viewings... So the decomposition level should have no bearing on placing the organs in a bag... And set inside the cavity... As seems to be acceptable procedure...

Additionally... Unless the organs have been donated... It is disrespectful to the deceased, and the loved ones of the deceased,to remove the organs... This is unconscionable!

all JMO... And I admit I am not an expert on this area of science and services at all...

I'll ask tomorrow to be sure.

Iirc the body is shipped to the funeral home with the organs in a bag after autopsy. If they're in good condition they're embalmed, if not they're tossed,

I do know that an autopsied body takes longer to embalm cause the circularly system is disrupted with all those missing organs.



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[Reader]

The thing that has made the 'missing organs' a big deal to me, is that this happening is in direct contradiction to what the GBI person stated:

GBI spokeswoman Sherry Lang told CNN that after the autopsy, "the organs were placed in Johnson's body, the body was closed, then the body was released to the funeral home." That's normal practice, Lang said.

Since none of the organs were able to be donated, I understand the above is the normal practice after an autopsy (but I'm not a doctor).

So, my question is: If the body left the autopsy with organs inside and body closed up, who, when and why was a decision made to open up the body, throw away the organs without telling the parents, and stuff it with newspaper? There would seem to be no logical reason to do this to me, and nobody is offering an understandable explanation either.

And for me, this situation being so questionable makes all the previous questions about how the case was handled more questionable also.

 

[Linda7NJ]

The thing that has made the 'missing organs' a big deal to me, is that this happening is in direct contradiction to what the GBI person stated:



Since none of the organs were able to be donated, I understand the above is the normal practice after an autopsy (but I'm not a doctor).

So, my question is: If the body left the autopsy with organs inside and body closed up, who, when and why was a decision made to open up the body, throw away the organs without telling the parents, and stuff it with newspaper? There would seem to be no logical reason to do this to me, and nobody is offering an understandable explanation either.

And for me, this situation being so questionable makes all the previous questions about how the case was handled more questionable also.

They don't just leave that bag in there with decomposing organs. They remove it to inject the abdominal & chest cavity walls with embalming fluid.
Not to be extra gross ,.. But a body would reek really bad if not embalmed...


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[al66pine]

reader

 

[Reader]

They don't just leave that bag in there with decomposing organs. They remove it to inject the abdominal & chest cavity walls with embalming fluid.
Not to be extra gross ,.. But a body would reek really bad if not embalmed...


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Understand about embalming the body, but is it normal practice for the organs to be disposed of, instead of staying in the embalmed body like you mentioned before?

And the funeral director said they did not receive the organs at all. They need to tell the truth about what happened to them, for the parents sake.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Understand about embalming the body, but is it normal practice for the organs to be disposed of, instead of staying in the embalmed body like you mentioned before?

And the funeral director said they did not receive the organs at all. They need to tell the truth about what happened to them, for the parents sake.

I'm going to ask tomorrow. We are all going out to dinner together. It's so funny my husband talks sports with my girlfriend and her husband entertains me with interesting body stories! My son and their two daughters ignore us all... Fun times!!!


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[al66pine]

Reader, you asked questions about 2 things: what happened to organs?

"... If the body left the autopsy with organs inside and body closed up, who, when and why was a decision made to open up the body, throw away the organs without telling the parents, ...There would seem to be no logical reason to do this to me, and nobody is offering an understandable explanation either." BBM S...BM

Part 1. Per coroner*
-why discarded = "too badly decomposed"
-when discarded = " had to be disposed of before the body was sent to the funeral home" and "would've been during or immediately after the autopsy"
-who discarded = silent on who.

Coroner did not explicitly say he or deputy coroners or employees actually did discarded the organs. Nor did he say the GBI folks did it.
Since coroners are responsible for transporting body to and from the GA. GBI's Med Exam'r morgue,** seems possible he (or dep. or employee) may have done it.

* "... Lowndes County Coroner Bill Watson said many of Johnson's organs were deemed too badly decomposed to be preserved and . "It would've been during or immediately after the autopsy,' he said." S...BM
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/m...02cdf2f33.html

** From http://gbi.georgia.gov/medical-examiners-office GBI = GA Bureau of Investigation
gbi site has a link or attachment, file titled AutopsyFAQs.doc, which I cannot link.
Although the language I quoted above says county is responsible for transport, this explains coroner is responsible for transporting body to and from Med Exam'r morgue.

JM:twocents: and I may be wrong.

 

[al66pine]

Back to try to answer Reader’s question about what happened to organs.

Part 2. Per funeral home owner’s letter*
F/home owner’s letter explained:
When discarded = before he received them.
Why discarded -= speculating: destroyed through natural process, body’s position at death.
Who discarded = speculating: prosector (~assistant to Med Exam’r) before the body was shipped back to home county.

IMO, funeral home owner’s letter stating organs were destroyed by death position** contradicts his own statement that organs were discarded by the prosector before the body was sent back.

* From the cnn.com link upthread:
The funeral home would not comment to CNN. But in a letter to the Johnsons' attorney, funeral home owner Antonio Harrington said his firm never received the teen's organs. Harrington wrote that the organs "were destroyed through natural process" due to the position of Kendrick Johnson's body when he died, and "discarded by the prosector before the body was sent back to Valdosta." A prosector dissects the body for pathological examination."

Just my:twocents: and I may be wrong.

 

[al66pine]

The second of Reader's questions = who put newspaper in the teen's remains?

... ...If the body left the autopsy with organs inside and body closed up, who, when and why was a decision made to open up the body, throw away the organs without telling the parents, and stuff it with newspaper? ....

BBM S...BM

Funeral home owner's attorney speaks *
Although the attorney did not explicitly say the funeral home owner or employee placed newspaper’s in the teen’s remains, he came very close to saying it (imo):

* "....Funeral home owner's attorney Roy Copeland. He said Johnson's organs were missing when the body arrived at Harrington. He also said standard embalming practice is to fill empty space in body cavities with material such as sawdust or cotton.
'Is newspaper necessarily more indicting that sawdust or cotton?' Copeland said." BBM S...BM
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/missing-organs-fuel-outcry-over-ga-teen-s-death/article_8eea3cd5-5da3-541f-8f02-f3002cdf2f33.html

Upthread I posted on the contradictory stmts. re the organs the funeral home owner himself made in his letter to the parent’s attorney.

JM:twocents: and I may be wrong.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I'm going to ask tomorrow. We are all going out to dinner together. It's so funny my husband talks sports with my girlfriend and her husband entertains me with interesting body stories! My son and their two daughters ignore us all... Fun times!!!


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I like sports, too...

but I most def would be following Mr. Funeral Director's and your convo!

:floorlaugh:

 

[Snoods]

......read ^ brought over

Whoa I think this is so controversial and bizarre, I can't believe it isn't getting more attention here!

So his parents are pushing hard for his case to be re-opened. He was found upside down in a rolled up gym mat with head trauma. Detectives rule it an accident. Wha?????

 

[raindrops300]

There is a fairly long thread on this "Georgia Sheriff Investigates.....". Should be merged?

 

[Snoods]

There is a fairly long thread on this "Georgia Sheriff Investigates.....". Should be merged?

oh thanks! I don't know how to merge them but I will check out that thread...

 

[Snoods]

OMG I think I know what happened.

This is just speculation: But at my HS, the mats were rolled up, with the hole at the top. So I think he leaned it to get his shoe, and then he got stuck upside down. (It says he was found in an inverted position).

But you would think he would be able to use his body strength to push the mat over, so he could get out though? I don't think it would be difficult to get the map to tip over...

Originally I though he must have climbed in and suffocated too. But I didn't realize he was upside down in the mat! The mat was 6 feet tall, how would he have thought he could reach down 6 feet to snatch out his tennis shoes? Plus the shoes on his feet were off and next to his legs/ankles. If I were stuck inside a mat I would be trying to use my rubber soles to push myself out of the mat, not my socks.

 

[Snoods]

IIRC, the timeline from the video doesn't allow enough time, between when KJ entered the gym alone and when other students came in after him, for anyone to kill him, roll his body in a mat, and then arrange that mat in the center of the stack. However, it does allow enough time for KJ to enter the gym, climb up on the mats to try to find his shoes and get stuck in one of the stacked mats. That's why I'm focusing on the video. IMO, it's one of the most important pieces of evidence for piecing together the facts of this tragedy.

Okay now I'm switching back to thinking this could be a tragic accident. You're right, the timeline (if this is the true timeline) doesn't allow for such an intricate murder to take place. The family is even alleging that Kendrick's nails were clipped short so that DNA underneath them couldn't be used. That part always sounded doubtful to me anyway, what teenage kid plans a murder so thoroughly that he brings nail clippers to clip nails?

 

[Snoods]

I'm going to ask tomorrow. We are all going out to dinner together. It's so funny my husband talks sports with my girlfriend and her husband entertains me with interesting body stories! My son and their two daughters ignore us all... Fun times!!!


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Actually it does sound like fun times! I like sports AND a good body story! Hanging out with y'all if I ever visit New Jersey :seeya:

 

[Reader]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/11/justice/georgia-kendrick-johnson-parents/index.html?hpt=us_c2

Has a clip of the video evidence; the full video still not released. (mostly Anderson and reporter talking)

The Johnson's skepticism led them not to give up, but to push on with their own investigation. A second autopsy conducted by a private pathologist, at the request of Kendrick's parents, found he died because of "unexplained, apparent non-accidental blunt force trauma."

There have been more questions since then, including why their son's body and skull were stuffed with newspaper before his burial.

The pursuit of getting answers has made the pain of losing a son -- a boy they described as jovial, polite and good-hearted -- a little more bearable.

"Just to know that we're fighting for Kendrick is what gets me up in the morning," his mother, Jacquelyn Johnson, told CNN's Anderson Cooper on Friday night.......

So what is the truth?

The Johnson family says one way to find out is through a coroner's inquest, a process in which a panel -- after reviewing evidence and testimony -- decides on a cause of death. They plan to file a lawsuit as early as next week to force the district attorney to force such an inquest.

If this process ends with a ruling Kendrick Johnson's death was a homicide, not an accident, then authorities would logically reopen their investigation. And with that, the Johnsons hope, they'll find out who is responsible.

More at link.....

 

[Shlock Homes]

I must have missed the post, where is the article that shows the timeline of the incident?

Apparently the gym has 4 cameras, and they take stills. They aren't releasing any of the stills that show other kids, so clearly Kendrick was not alone in that gym.

The crime scene photos show Kendrick's shoes resting near his legs inside the mat, so why would he be reaching for a shoe if he already had his? The positioning of the shoe seems to indicate that they were tossed in after he had been put in upright.

It seems to me that the surveillance video would have been looked at before they finished gathering evidence, so if someone saw certain people they knew and didn't want to be connected to the crime, they probably would have taken steps to corrupt the evidence, like not further testing blood on the wall, or leaving other shoes and shirts that were found in the area.

I don't know about the disposal of organs, I'm guessing that not having them around means they cannot be tested if another autopsy is done. Since the case was closed rather than called a murder, I guess that's why they didn't feel the need to keep the organs preserved.

I find the interview with this police lieutenant interesting. When asked about the blood, he says it doesn't appear to be related to 'our crime'. So he's admitting it wasn't an accident? Freudian slip.

[video=youtube;TSNPT7vw7Pw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSNPT7vw7Pw[/video]

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

So so many inconsistencies...

But I seriously do not think a school would leave "old blood" dripping... Then drying ... On a gymnasium wall... Due to health issues, etc...

But... If that is "old blood"... Not related to Kendicks case...Then there should be some investigation on the event which caused THAT much blood on the wall! :what:

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I must have missed the post, where is the article that shows the timeline of the incident?

Apparently the gym has 4 cameras, and they take stills. They aren't releasing any of the stills that show other kids, so clearly Kendrick was not alone in that gym.

The crime scene photos show Kendrick's shoes resting near his legs inside the mat, so why would he be reaching for a shoe if he already had his? The positioning of the shoe seems to indicate that they were tossed in after he had been put in upright.

It seems to me that the surveillance video would have been looked at before they finished gathering evidence, so if someone saw certain people they knew and didn't want to be connected to the crime, they probably would have taken steps to corrupt the evidence, like not further testing blood on the wall, or leaving other shoes and shirts that were found in the area.

I don't know about the disposal of organs, I'm guessing that not having them around means they cannot be tested if another autopsy is done. Since the case was closed rather than called a murder, I guess that's why they didn't feel the need to keep the organs preserved.

I find the interview with this police lieutenant interesting. When asked about the blood, he says it doesn't appear to be related to 'our crime'. So he's admitting it wasn't an accident? Freudian slip.

New Disturbing Evidence In Kendrick Johnson Death

I would now sure like to view the stills of other students entering the gym prior/with/after Kendrick...

Interesting that they are not releasing them... No?

JMO...