GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 #11

[Wondergirl]

I truly hope LE recovers the rest of Lauren. She deserves to be put to rest properly. It must be so devastating.

20 or so FBI Agents specializing in landfill searches are there:

ASON VORHEES/THE TELEGRAPH - Law enforcement personnel search for the remains of recently murdered Mercer University graduate Lauren Giddings at the Wolf Creek Landfill in Twiggs County Monday.Image 1 of 1

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/09/12/1701012/search-for-giddings-remains-in.html#ixzz1XnXyZIzE
​

 

[3doglady]

What keeps you from being ready? If it's more than a hunch, I haven't read about it on these threads. If it IS a hunch, that's OK, but that's what I meant by "wishful thinking."

Wouldn't it be nice if LE has tons of evidence? But they don't -- either they have (my opinion) just what they presented at the hearing, or they have "problematic" evidence in addition to that (your opinion).

Trouble is, what they presented at the hearing is "problematic" and they really NEED something more. The hacksaw package and the keys are all that isn't problematic (given that the dog evidence is) and I think the WS consensus is that that evidence won't be enough to convict beyond reasonable doubt. That's why I think LE is now desperate (no prospect of good forensics) and are undertaking an expensive, low percentage search of the Twiggs County landfill.

What's worse is that SMD is likely to have carefully de-clued the remains just as he did the torso. The search is definitely a troubling development.

Patterson said that the hacksaw package had a generic lot number matching the hacksaw. The way he said it, I assumed there are numerous hacksaws with the same number. I'd like to know how many. If there are thousands that could be problematic.

 

[bessie]

What keeps you from being ready? If it's more than a hunch, I haven't read about it on these threads. If it IS a hunch, that's OK, but that's what I meant by "wishful thinking."

Wouldn't it be nice if LE has tons of evidence? But they don't -- either they have (my opinion) just what they presented at the hearing, or they have "problematic" evidence in addition to that (your opinion).

Trouble is, what they presented at the hearing is "problematic" and they really NEED something more. The hacksaw package and the keys are all that isn't problematic (given that the dog evidence is) and I think the WS consensus is that that evidence won't be enough to convict beyond reasonable doubt. That's why I think LE is now desperate (no prospect of good forensics) and are undertaking an expensive, low percentage search of the Twiggs County landfill.

What's worse is that SMD is likely to have carefully de-clued the remains just as he did the torso. The search is definitely a troubling development.

There's no question that McD is cunning. Examples of his craftiness fill several pages in a thread downstairs. No doubt that's caused problems for the investigation. But if he was foolish enough to leave the torso to be found right on the property and blood on the hacksaw, then he could have made other mistakes, as well, like droning on and on in an on camera interview, for instance. So I think it's likely that there is evidence, possibly even enough to convict him. It's not necessarily an all or nothing situation. Yet, obviously, LE would like more or they wouldn't be searching the landfill.

It's not necessary to prove cause of death, but it's an important part of the evidence because it completes the picture for the jury. If there were no fatal wounds to the torso, and the toxicology reports showed no poisoning or drug overdose, then the missing remains could hold the answer to that question. Even after all this time, a fractured skull would still be visible. And if not the remains, a weapon found in the landfill could be used to explain COD. So that's one good reason to do the search, but it doesn't mean that without it, the case cannot proceed.

 

[Backwoods]

New article up at macon.com:

QUOTE:
First day combing landfill for Lauren Giddings' remains yields no help in police investigation




link: http://www.macon.com/2011/09/13/1701220/first-day-yields-no-help-in-police.html

 

[Knox]

Maybe I should have skipped posting it, too, Knox -- I just thought, egads --and wondered if all here would have the same reaction.

I did glance at the comments on the site and there seemed to be quite a bit of disapproval, so maybe there wasn't much voting.

You know, it's not like everyone isn't wondering how the search will go, I get that -- but a reader poll?

edited to add: I see that the link to the poll is no longer working -- so maybe the message did get through!

Glad to hear they shut it down!!

 

[bessie]

Law enforcement and volunteers operating equipment are conducting the search in hopes of bringing peace to Giddings’ family, Chapman said...

“Everybody wanted to get involved,” Chapman said. “I’ve never been in a situation where I’ve seen an agency like the FBI just say, ‘Hey, we’re going to come down and do this search for you, and we don’t have one piece of evidence telling us that (remains) are here.’

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/09/13/1701220/first-day-yields-no-help-in-police.html#ixzz1XnsAZgtb
​

As wonderful as it sounds, even I'm having a little trouble believing the FBI are going to spend a week searching the landfill simply to bring peace to the Giddings family.

 

[Knox]

As an investigator, Chapman said he’s tried to learn everything he can about his “suspect” and tried to put himself into “his frame of mind.”

“No part of that investigation ever led me (to think) that (the remains) were here,” he said. “I don’t have one piece of evidence that tells me that anything’s out here. Still, there has been suspicion that more of Giddings’ remains could be recovered there. Law enforcement and volunteers operating equipment are conducting the search in hopes of bringing peace to Giddings’ family, Chapman said.

“Everybody wanted to get involved,” Chapman said. “I’ve never been in a situation where I’ve seen an agency like the FBI just say, ‘Hey, we’re going to come down and do this search for you, and we don’t have one piece of evidence telling us that (remains) are here.’

FBI agents met with Macon police about 10 days ago. At that time, the FBI scoped out the site and concluded that search dogs would not prove beneficial.

“Cadaver dogs smell human remains, but they react on anything -- bodily fluids -- and that could be anything,” Chapman said.

What’s more, because it’s a wide-open landfill, dogs may smell something in one place because the wind is carrying the scent from a dirty diaper a half-mile from the landfill, Chapman said.

The landfill costs were waived on the contingency that only law enforcement would be involved in the search -- no civilians -- because of liability concerns.

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/09/13/1701220/first-day-yields-no-help-in-police.html#ixzz1XnsiramX​

From your link Backwoods-

 

[Knox]

The Landfill is waiving their costs, private contractors donated the equipment and the FBI is supplying experienced searchers.

♥ What a wonderful outpouring of support for Lauren and her family ♥

If only McD would confess and spare the Giddings family the trauma of attending a trial, as well as all these searches.

 

[bessie]

That would be a blessing, Knox. It will never happen, though. If he's aware of what's going on, he's probably gloating inside because he thinks he's foiled the authorities. Well, we'll see who has the last laugh.

 

[bessie]

I truly hope LE recovers the rest of Lauren. She deserves to be put to rest properly. It must be so devastating.

20 or so FBI Agents specializing in landfill searches are there:

ASON VORHEES/THE TELEGRAPH - Law enforcement personnel search for the remains of recently murdered Mercer University graduate Lauren Giddings at the Wolf Creek Landfill in Twiggs County Monday.Image 1 of 1

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/09/12/1701012/search-for-giddings-remains-in.html#ixzz1XnXyZIzE
​

What a powerful photograph. It gave me goosebumps. :cry:

Whatever the motivation for the search, I'm filled with gratitude for all of the parties who've contributed to the effort.

 

[Backwoods]

How likely do you all think it is, if anything --remains and/or evidence --is found, that we will find out anything about it anytime soon?

(Gosh, I hope that doesn't sound too much like the macon.com poll; I don't mean it that way.)

 

[Oriah]

Hopefully no time soon.

MOO of course- but that info should be kept private out of sensitivity to the family, and preservation of integrity of the case.

I hope we only hear about anything found after a conviction is made.

 

[CADAVERDOG101]

I have been reading your quotes and have decided to help out with some info. Cross trained Dogs can be a problem when under the cross exam of a great Defense Attorney. We prefer to use K-9's that are trained in ONE disipline only. The accuracy and reliability of the Dog is much better and the Handler and his TRAINING records as well as his CERTIFICATIONS can usually hold up better in a court of Law.

 

[tomkat]

You beat me to the punch, Thin Man. The new article answers some of our questions, though.
____________________________________________________________________________________________

So, on 08/03, Chief Burns says LE has no plans to search WC landfill. Golba, on the other hand, is confident LG's remains will be found there and thinks it should be searched.

Then on 08/18-19
http://www.11alive.com/news/article/202140/3/Agnes-Scott-alums-family-still-searching-for-remains

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/08/18/1669391/investigators-in-giddings-case.html#ixzz1XmyPZuoj
According to the above article, LE was involved in the planning all along. They did not just suddenly decide to search because of new evidence or a new tip. I think it goes back to what I said the other night. Both LE and the Giddings have wanted to search the landfill since at least August for different reasons, but getting the funds approved has been a problem, leaving them with no alternative than to seek outside assistance. It is and always has been a joint effort.

September 12, 2011
http://www.13wmaz.com/news/article/143826/175/Search-Resumes-for-Lauren-Giddings-Remains

What seems to have changed since last month is the method of funding the search. Instead of using the donations the family collected, the money comes from a different source.

Which leaves the question of why LE wants to search the landfill. I'm not ready to buy ThinMan's explanation that there is no evidence other than what was presented at the commitment hearing. I believe they have more, but it might be problematic, so they're searching for the one missing bit of evidence that would make the case a slam dunk.
​

So that means LE still doesnt' have enough evidence.

 

[Oriah]

I have been reading your quotes and have decided to help out with some info. Cross trained Dogs can be a problem when under the cross exam of a great Defense Attorney. We prefer to use K-9's that are trained in ONE disipline only. The accuracy and reliability of the Dog is much better and the Handler and his TRAINING records as well as his CERTIFICATIONS can usually hold up better in a court of Law.

Hi CADAVERDOG101, and welcome to WS's.
Do you mind me asking if you are a dog handler?

 

[sarx]

I'm going to refrain at the moment from getting involved in the cross training bit, but I do feel it is very important to also note that WHERE the certifications come from is hugely important. Not all certs are created equal to put it mildly.

 

[Knox]

So that means LE still doesnt' have enough evidence.

Winters hasn't revealed everything to date. Do they have a smoking gun, maybe not. But I have faith they will be able to secure a conviction.

One subject we haven't touched on is tool marks. If that saw had a slight defect or perhaps it wore or warped a certain way while it was being used, would the bone show this? Would the ME compare the findings during autopsy or the FBI in the lab?

http://symesforensics.com/documents/SawMarkManual_Symes.pdf

 

[pearl]

Is there any way to zoom in on the Wolf Creek search pictures to see if any searchers are using metal detecters? This could indicate that they are looking for a weapon if they have some.

 

[Oriah]

Winters hasn't revealed everything to date. Do they have a smoking gun, maybe not. But I have faith they will be able to secure a conviction.

One subject we haven't touched on is tool marks. If that saw had a slight defect or perhaps it wore or warped a certain way while it was being used, would the bone show this? Would the ME compare the findings during autopsy or the FBI in the lab?

http://symesforensics.com/documents/SawMarkManual_Symes.pdf

Yes, Knox. I believe so.
I don't know of many cutting tools that (if matched to item cut- especially if brand new) do not show that evidence on both the tool, and the item cut. )

 

[Oriah]

Is there any way to zoom in on the Wolf Creek search pictures to see if any searchers are using metal detecters? This could indicate that they are looking for a weapon if they have some.

Probably not, pearl.
But if they are, they may also be looking for jewelry, watches, other metal items, etc.