GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 #15 *appeals denied*

[Backwoods]

Oh gross... what did he possibly think he could find? Clearly he was in the throes of "something." This voyeuristic fetishism disturbs me to no end.

It brings no solace, but the contents of this article are the worst nightmare of the borderline addictive *advertiser censored* viewer.. Totally unrelated observation, but there are some mighty hostile and defensive comments on the article.

bbm: Yeah, I sure wondered that, too. Was he just hoping to get really lucky? It's strange.

Those commenters -- yeah, now they're starting in at The Telegraph to shut up about McDaniel. I think a few of them are being honest and are tired of hearing about the case and/or don't want SM to get any further coverage that might fill any hunger he has for notoriety, and I do understand where they're coming from. The rest, I think, just like to complain.

I'll be honest and say, I'm glad they're covering it. It will wind down soon enough, but, with no trial, I think MANY appreciate the coverage (maybe even some who are complaining). There's been so many questions for so long. If some in-depth wrap-up coverage is wrong in that it gives SM his "15 minutes of infamy" -- well, I guess he just wins THAT one, as far as I'm concerned. I'm not so noble to not want to know. Maybe I "should" be, but I'm just not.

I think of Amy and Joe, the two main reporters who have covered this case for The Telegraph -- and others, too, I'm sure, who were involved: I'm sure they're sick to death of it in some ways, but on the other hand I just feel this was an emotionally involving story for them. Of course, I could be wrong -- they could be two lumps of ice; but I just have a hunch not. So, yeah, it's selling papers/drawing web hits -- but they've waited a long time, too, to wrap up this story. I wish folks would leave them alone.

I do feel for Lauren's family and for Stephen's family in the face of all this, it's got to be rough. This tiny little phase, though, of their respective tragedies, will pass; it's the tragedies behind the headlines that they have to live with forever. God bless them all.

 

[bessie]

bbm: Yeah, I sure wondered that, too. Was he just hoping to get really lucky? It's strange.

Those commenters -- yeah, now they're starting in at The Telegraph to shut up about McDaniel. I think a few of them are being honest and are tired of hearing about the case and/or don't want SM to get any further coverage that might fill any hunger he has for notoriety, and I do understand where they're coming from. The rest, I think, just like to complain.

I'll be honest and say, I'm glad they're covering it. It will wind down soon enough, but, with no trial, I think MANY appreciate the coverage (maybe even some who are complaining). There's been so many questions for so long. If some in-depth wrap-up coverage is wrong in that it gives SM his "15 minutes of infamy" -- well, I guess he just wins THAT one, as far as I'm concerned. I'm not so noble to not want to know. Maybe I "should" be, but I'm just not.

I think of Amy and Joe, the two main reporters who have covered this case for The Telegraph -- and others, too, I'm sure, who were involved: I'm sure they're sick to death of it in some ways, but on the other hand I just feel this was an emotionally involving story for them. Of course, I could be wrong -- they could be two lumps of ice; but I just have a hunch not. So, yeah, it's selling papers/drawing web hits -- but they've waited a long time, too, to wrap up this story. I wish folks would leave them alone.

I do feel for Lauren's family and for Stephen's family in the face of all this, it's got to be rough. This tiny little phase, though, of their respective tragedies, will pass; it's the tragedies behind the headlines that they have to live with forever. God bless them all.

I have the same hunch. I think Joe and Amy feel like most of us, relieved for Lauren's family, but anxious for the truth to be told. JMO

OT: To those of you in the path of the severe weather, take care. Looks like there's more on the way.

 

[bessie]

There is a lot that freaks one out a bit, for sure.

But you know, of what I've had a chance to view so far, I think the thing that most affected me emotionally was the photos/videos of Lauren's place. It just seemed like she should walk back in at any second -- and viewing it made ME feel just a bit like a creeper. Like "I shouldn't be here". Murder victims lose a lot in addition to their life sometimes, like privacy.

I've wanted so much, at times, to know the contents of Lauren's last email. Then I would think -- that's terrible. That's her personal correspondence. I can imagine her sitting down and typing that, never dreaming, of course, the significance it would soon be taking on for so many people. It's spooky and sad, to me, to think about.

Heck, I admit -- I still really, really want to know what she said in the email about the Thursday night break-in attempt.

<rsbm>

I had a similar reaction, especially looking at her computer chair. Something about the position of it. As though she'd only left it for a moment and would soon return. The backrest on the sofabed with the folded blanket resting against it was particularly moving, just like the bathroom vanity covered with her personal grooming items. It fairly screams: a life interrupted. And most disturbing of all is the bed, of course, with the comforter sliding off to the side, while the laptop sits on top.

I've always gotten an eerie feeling when looking at those side-by-side, mirror image apartments. The imagery of the neat facade, the four red doors, perfect symmetry; the way shadows hang over the building in some photos...forgive me for saying this, but it could be the set of a Hitchcock film.

 

[Sonya610]

bbm:
I think of Amy and Joe, the two main reporters who have covered this case for The Telegraph -- and others, too, I'm sure, who were involved: I'm sure they're sick to death of it in some ways, but on the other hand I just feel this was an emotionally involving story for them.

I just hope neither of them plan to write a book about the case.

Now a book by someone like Ann Rule; a writer that uses some objectivity, would be great. This case truly has it all from a crime story perspective including LOTS of colorful characters (but they wouldn't be that interesting if those Telegraph writers tried to craft a book).

 

[MaconMom]

I just hope neither of them plan to write a book about the case.

Now a book by someone like Ann Rule; a writer that uses some objectivity, would be great. This case truly has it all from a crime story perspective including LOTS of colorful characters (but they wouldn't be that interesting if those Telegraph writers tried to craft a book).

I wouldn't be surpised if they did write a book. A lot of Joe's articles read like a novel instead of a news story, with the way he describes the scenes and draws everything out.

 

[Backwoods]

Amy Leigh and Joe will not be shouted down so easily, it seems:

Stroke of fortune helped cops catch Giddings&#8217; killer

It was a stroke of luck. The garbage man was late.

When a pair of Macon police detectives pulled into Lauren Giddings&#8217; Georgia Avenue apartment complex the morning she was reported missing, they parked their cars, blocking some curbside trash cans.

Minutes later, the garbage truck arrived and its driver &#8220;just waved at us like he wasn&#8217;t worried about it,&#8221; investigator Scott Chapman recalled.

The truck kept going. ...

more at: http://www.macon.com/2014/04/29/3072700/stroke-of-fortune-helped-cops.html?sp=/99/100/&ihp=1

Kind of seems that someone might want to lay those old "the garbage man made the discovery" rumors that I mentioned earlier to rest for once and for all.

Other topics in this story, as well...

 

[bessie]

What are the odds of a second "crazy-looking man from the TV" shopping for a tarp, rope, and hacksaw blades at the same Wal-Mart, on the very same day that McD purchased the rope and ponchos? I'll bet they had some 'splaining to do.

He was with another man, a guy who seemed to be in a bad mood, who bought a tarp, rope and hacksaw blades, the cashier told detectives.

The cashier asked the customer if he was &#8220;doing a home-improvement project,&#8221; but the man didn&#8217;t answer, and McDaniel walked off with him.

Trouble was, it wasn&#8217;t McDaniel

Read more here: http://www.macon.com/2014/04/29/3072700/stroke-of-fortune-helped-cops.html?sp=/99/148/#storylink=cpy

 

[Hyrax]

What are the odds of a second "crazy-looking man from the TV" shopping for a tarp, rope, and hacksaw blades at the same Wal-Mart, on the very same day that McD purchased the rope and ponchos? I'll bet they had some 'splaining to do.

Read more here: http://www.macon.com/2014/04/29/3072700/stroke-of-fortune-helped-cops.html?sp=/99/148/#storylink=cpy

I think I'm too tired to make sense of this article right now. Can someone explain to me what it's trying to say?

A fake-McDaniel and a grumpy man went to Wal-Mart and bought "tarp, rope and hacksaw blades," and then five hours later real-McDaniel went to Wal-Mart and bought "rope, two ponchos, a flash drive and some Sour Patch candy"?

Also the sour patch candy detail makes me sick. Lauren was still alive, and he was buying tools to murder her with, and he goes "oh yeah, lemme get this bag of candy too."

 

[Backwoods]

HOGUE: On representing a guilty person

By FRANKLIN J. HOGUE
Special to The Telegraph April 30, 2014

&#8220;How can a criminal defense lawyer be doing a good thing by working toward a not guilty verdict in a case where he or she knows the client committed the crime?&#8221;

It&#8217;s a fair question and one I answered for myself 25 years ago when I dedicated my professional career to criminal defense. I studied law under superb teachers at Mercer, one of whom gave the best answer to this question, an answer I adopted and later taught to my own students at Mercer these past dozen years in a class on advanced criminal trial techniques....

more at: http://www.macon.com/2014/04/30/307...-a-guilty.html#storylink=omni_popular#wgt=pop

Sonya, this one's for you.

 

[bessie]

I think I'm too tired to make sense of this article right now. Can someone explain to me what it's trying to say?

A fake-McDaniel and a grumpy man went to Wal-Mart and bought "tarp, rope and hacksaw blades," and then five hours later real-McDaniel went to Wal-Mart and bought "rope, two ponchos, a flash drive and some Sour Patch candy"?

Also the sour patch candy detail makes me sick. Lauren was still alive, and he was buying tools to murder her with, and he goes "oh yeah, lemme get this bag of candy too."

That's about right. Sorry if I confused the issue. A W-M cashier reported that a customer s/he waited on looked just like the "crazy-looking man on the TV" (McD in the parking lot interview). CL-M and another guy bought hacksaw blades, tarp, and rope.

LE checked out the video, and it wasn't McD. BUT...on the same day, five hours later, McD WAS caught on the store video purchasing rope, ponchos, etc. That was Friday, June 23, a day and a half before he killed LG.

 

[Backwoods]

The Telegraph/macon.com called its breaking coverage of the evidence over the past few days "exclusive" -- and I guess maybe it actually was; this just hit 13WMAZ today:

Stephen McDaniel case file released

Bibb District Attorney David Cooke is releasing the complete file of the nearly three-year investigation into Lauren Giddings' murder. That includes two large boxes of paper files, videos, and more. It also includes dozens of photos that detail the investigation, how the murder happened, and how investigators got their man.

more at: http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/crime/giddings-case/2014/04/30/mcdaniel-case-file/8537215/

 

[Backwoods]

That's about right. Sorry if I confused the issue. A W-M cashier reported that a customer s/he waited on looked just like the "crazy-looking man on the TV" (McD in the parking lot interview). CL-M and another guy bought hacksaw blades, tarp, and rope.

LE checked out the video, and it wasn't McD. BUT...on the same day, five hours later, McD WAS caught on the store video purchasing rope, ponchos, etc. That was Friday, June 23, a day and a half before he killed LG.

I think I was tired, too (Hyrax) when I first read that part of the article -- because for a moment my mind just kind of stopped and went blank... and then "Whaaaat...?"

I wonder if maybe that same cashier had seen SM, too, and just kind of blended the two events in her mind. IIRC, they found receipts for the items he bought...? (Not sure about that.) If so, they probably would have tracked down the video eventually -- but I'm wondering if the cashier contacted them before they'd made that particular find/connection. If so, she may have given them a little boost.

Weird coincidence, for sure. (Kind of reaffirms my already-long-standing determination to avoid Wal-Mart whenever possible, LOL).

Watching the video, I couldn't help but wonder if some of the other shoppers recognized themselves and went :scared:

Don't know if they've corrected it by now, but when macon.com first posted that video, it said something like "Stephen McDaniel shops at Wal-Mart after murdering Lauren Giddings" -- which was incorrect, of course.

(Some of the videos or a picture group from the apartments was mislabeled at first, too -- again, it may have been corrected now. There were shots of LE removing a tub and of a bathroom with lots of makeup brushes and PINK -- and it was labeled as from SM's apartment. That was another moment when, tired and hurried, I went "Whaaaat?" for a just a few moments before I figured it out.)

 

[bessie]

Nice piece.

snipped

So, if each one of us is to enjoy a measure of security from a government with the power to inflict severe harm, including death, there is no better way to provide it than the system we’ve inherited. There is no other way to protect the innocent than to give to the guilty the presumption of innocence, the right to legal counsel, and the right to challenge the government to prove the truth of its case.

Read more here: http://www.macon.com/2014/04/30/3072980/hogue-on-representing-a-guilty.html#storylink=cpy


You probabaly wouldn't know it from reading the LG threads, but I hold very strongly to this same opinion. The reasons are abundant, but the simplest view is the personal one. The burden of proof must remain heavy because next time, it might be I who is accused. So within the justice system, I want the bar held high. Outside, I have lesser expectations or concerns.


​

 

[Backwoods]

Discussing the Wal-Mart video reminded me: We had a WS poster -- can't recall for sure who -- who said he/she thought they'd encountered SM at that Wal-Mart right around the time of Lauren's murder. Said the guy was wearing a Mercer Law t-shirt, I think.

 

[tomkat]

PLENTY of people do! I have known about it for ages, in fact just 2 days ago I posted about Kuru/Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease and cannibalism on a chicken forum during a discussion about the origins of Mad Cow Disease and kitchen scraps as livestock food.

And yes, the suggestion of cannibalism simply as prurient conjecture IS imo degrading to the victim; think about what happens to the food you eat, the food ends up being excreted as $--- into a toilet after a couple of days.

WOW, I'd have never thought of it had it not been mentioned early on, people involved in this case personally KNOW what's going on and what's possible, it's all bad, so maybe not discuss ANY of it, it's all degrading, worst of all that someone could do that or even talk about it or even talk about the perfect murder, it's all bad, and treated as if it were a game of poker .....

 

[Backwoods]

Nice piece.

snipped

Read more here: http://www.macon.com/2014/04/30/3072980/hogue-on-representing-a-guilty.html#storylink=cpy


You probabaly wouldn't know it from reading the LG threads, but I hold very strongly to this same opinion. The reasons are abundant, but the simplest view is the personal one. The burden of proof must remain heavy because next time, it might be I who is accused. So within the justice system, I want the bar held high. Outside, I have lesser expectations or concerns.


​

I am just relieved to finally know how I fit in here. I guess I am sort of the WS defense attorney...:innocent:

ETA: Symbolically speaking, of course. Because IANAL.

 

[bessie]

I think I was tired, too (Hyrax) when I first read that part of the article -- because for a moment my mind just kind of stopped and went blank... and then "Whaaaat...?"

I wonder if maybe that same cashier had seen SM, too, and just kind of blended the two events in her mind. IIRC, they found receipts for the items he bought...? (Not sure about that.) If so, they probably would have tracked down the video eventually -- but I'm wondering if the cashier contacted them before they'd made that particular find/connection. If so, she may have given them a little boost.

Weird coincidence, for sure. (Kind of reaffirms my already-long-standing determination to avoid Wal-Mart whenever possible, LOL).

Watching the video, I couldn't help but wonder if some of the other shoppers recognized themselves and went :scared:

Don't know if they've corrected it by now, but when macon.com first posted that video, it said something like "Stephen McDaniel shops at Wal-Mart after murdering Lauren Giddings" -- which was incorrect, of course.

(Some of the videos or a picture group from the apartments was mislabeled at first, too -- again, it may have been corrected now. There were shots of LE removing a tub and of a bathroom with lots of makeup brushes and PINK -- and it was labeled as from SM's apartment. That was another moment when, tired and hurried, I went "Whaaaat?" for a just a few moments before I figured it out.)

I noticed one or two errors, myself. But considering the abundance of information, (i.e. several hundred photographs), released in the past week, I have to cut them some slack. It's not like there was much time to prepare. Who knew McD would throw in the towel. I appreciate the rush to get it all published for those of us who were eager to see it.

Regarding the bolded paragraph, I wondered about that, too. It's not clear if the same cashier waited on both the real McD and the mistaken one.

The receipt was seized in the July 1 search.

pdf p 72

Wal Mart receipt for 06-23-11

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/540762-mcdaniel-defense-motions-351-pages.html#wgt=rcntnews

 

[Backwoods]

I noticed one or two errors, myself. But considering the abundance of information, (i.e. several hundred photographs), released in the past week, I have to cut them some slack. It's not like there was much time to prepare. Who knew McD would throw in the towel. I appreciate the rush to get it all published for those of us who were eager to see it.

Regarding the bolded paragraph, I wondered about that, too. It's not clear if the same cashier waited on both the real McD and the mistaken one.

The receipt was seized in the July 1 search.

pdf p 72https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/540762-mcdaniel-defense-motions-351-pages.html#wgt=rcntnews

bbm: Totally in harmony here -- and I didn't mean to seem to be critical; just wanted to share that those mislabelings gave me a few moments of befuddlement!

 

[Backwoods]

Something ocurred to me earlier tonight -- don't know why I was so slow to think of this, bet some of you thought of it long before: I bet investigators might have some idea of whether SM is truthful in his allocution about WHEN he placed Lauren's remains in the bin, by knowing whether something someone else put in was found above them in the bin. (If whatever BB put in there was on top, he might be telling the truth.) It wouldn't be a sure indicator, but it might help.

Also thinking about the gloves/mask/shirt part. Remember the blue or grey fibers* they were trying to identify? Maybe they never found the source and he is indicating that one of the items he says he cut up and flushed was the source...?

*ETA: These fibers:

Documents in the case previously have revealed that the purpose of one of the nine search warrants obtained by Macon police was to look for blue fibers in McDaniel&#8217;s apartment.

Macon police Sgt. Scott Chapman testified Monday that the FBI&#8217;s lab in Quantico, Va., notified police that they found matching blue fibers on shorts found on Giddings&#8217; torso and a gray T-shirt seized from McDaniel&#8217;s apartment.

The purpose of searching for blue fibers on July 12, 2011, was to find the origin of the fibers, Chapman said.

http://www.macon.com/2013/09/16/2667434/mcdaniel-hearings-set-to-begin.html

 

[bessie]

bbm: Totally in harmony here -- and I didn't mean to seem to be critical; just wanted to share that those mislabelings gave me a few moments of befuddlement!

Oh, I know you weren't, and I hope I didn't make it sound that way.

Something ocurred to me earlier tonight -- don't know why I was so slow to think of this, bet some of you thought of it long before: I bet investigators might have some idea of whether SM is truthful in his allocution about WHEN he placed Lauren's remains in the bin, by knowing what (if anything) someone else put in was found above them in the bin. (If whatever BB put in there was on top, he might be telling the truth.) It wouldn't be a sure indicator, but it might help.

I recall way back in those first months there was an ongoing debate about where he'd held her remains. It started even before we saw the refrigerator removed from Apartment 1, iirc. Questions were raised about whether there were other contents in the can, and if tenants gave statements about when they last deposited trash in the can. Naturally, we didn't know the answers then, and I guess we still don't. It's a good point, though. If the investigators have a clue, I wish they'd share it with us.

Since apparently the biological samples taken from the refrigerator didn't pan out, perhap he made that statement just to point out LE was wrong about something. Admittedly, I have a hard time finding a more logical reason. But then I go back to the autopsy notes that say "early decomposition", and my own life experience, and everything I know about the subject, and that part of his timeline just doesn't add up for me.

Also thinking about the gloves/mask/shirt part. Remember the blue or grey fibers* they were trying to identify? Maybe they never found the source and he is indicating that one of the items he says he cut up and flushed was the source...?

*ETA: These fibers:

http://www.macon.com/2013/09/16/2667434/mcdaniel-hearings-set-to-begin.html

Could be they came from a t-shirt. Like my thought about the refrigerator, this is an issue that he might have used as a way to show how he outsmarted LE, since they got him on pretty much everything else, i.e., the relevant points.

I've been meaning to mention the mask. I don't recall ever hearing or reading about a mask. AFAIK, there wasn't even speculation about a mask. Is that brand new? Or have I just forgotten about it?