GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 # 8

[~SuperSleuth~]

Just so that I can wrap my head around all this recent questioning of whether there is any evidence
of SM being infatuated in some way with LG, could PsychoMom and/or sand_storm give a few examples
of the type of evidence you're looking for?

I realize the assumption is being made based only on a few references from family/friends,
which is IMO due to the fact that all of them have been generally silent about anything
since this crime occurred - and there are several understandable reasons for this.
So, I tend to put a lot of weight into these few suggestive references.
At the same time, I'm having a hard time thinking of anything other than hearsay (maybe not the correct term here)
as evidence of SM having been infatuated with LG - whether this be in a normal "in love" sense, or some other abnormal or "disturbed" sense.
In either case, I don't see SM as being one to show his feelings publicly.
So, maybe this is why I'm having a hard time thinking of better "evidence"?

 

[angelanalyzes]

My little off-the-cuff post generated quite a few responses.
As I was catching up, there were a lot of posts discussing the decision to use
the rolling trash bin, as opposed to the nearby larger dumpster - and about
being possibly seen/caught, how far away it was, etc...
All the while, in nearly every post the words "rolling trash can/bin" were being typed,
yet it appeared most comments were speaking of it as if it were stationary,
with no consideration that it had wheels. I was, obviously, quite amused by this.

In retrospect, I probably should have chosen better words for this post.
I hope it didn't come off as arrogance or me "poking fun" at anyone.

I believe a consensus was reached that it's most likely that he simply carried it
to this trash bin, without moving it. There were several different reasons given
for this belief, and I must say that I too agree this was most likely the case.

eace:

Considering how generally polite and well-meaning your posts are, I personally didn't take your post as rude or arrogant
I too thought for a moment that the perp could have rolled the bin somewhere convenient for his use, but I felt that would likely be more conspicuous in the end. When I was at the BH complex I tried to imagine a few separate ways someone could go about moving the remains from point A to the bins. At any rate, I left confident that under the cover of darkness, it could be done with ease. The only part that would have been difficult, in my estimation, would be making enough room in the bin the night before pickup when it's likely to have been quite full without spending a bit of time removing garbage to put on top of the remains so they wouldn't be sitting on top. It hasn't been made clear whether or not the plastic wrapped remains were also bagged in a trash bag, the only logical reason I can think of for not bagging them would be to avoid the possibility of police tracing back the brand and batch of trash bag to your possession.

 

[~SuperSleuth~]

Considering how generally polite and well-meaning your posts are, I personally didn't take your post as rude or arrogant
I too thought for a moment that the perp could have rolled the bin somewhere convenient for his use, but I felt that would likely be more conspicuous in the end. When I was at the BH complex I tried to imagine a few separate ways someone could go about moving the remains from point A to the bins. At any rate, I left confident that under the cover of darkness, it could be done with ease. The only part that would have been difficult, in my estimation, would be making enough room in the bin the night before pickup when it's likely to have been quite full without spending a bit of time removing garbage to put on top of the remains so they wouldn't be sitting on top. It hasn't been made clear whether or not the plastic wrapped remains were also bagged in a trash bag, the only logical reason I can think of for not bagging them would be to avoid the possibility of police tracing back the brand and batch of trash bag to your possession.

That's an interesting point.
If it were full, or he didn't want to go back and dump his own trash on top to cover it,
this might have been a good enough reason for him to take the extra risk of rolling
the bin into Apt #1.

 

[SuperMom1995]

:heart:Thanks guys, for the nice things you all said.
I am not an expert by any means, I'm just a student, but I live for the study of behavioral forensics, I'm completely obsessed. For some reason, and I think it's mainly because Lauren was at such a wonderful point in her life and it was just devastating to see her cut down at a time when she was probably so excited and happy about her future, this case really grabbed my attention and I "had a hunch" about the nature of the crime from the beginning. It's just my personal opinion, and for a while I wanted to be wrong about Stephen, I really felt for him, but my instincts told me he was the one who took Lauren away, and the case unfolded as it has unfolded. I never mean to come off as a self-styled expert of any sort, I apologize if I've ever given that impression, I'm honestly just totally consumed with this case and it's cases like these that are the entire reason I even get out of bed in the morning and make the hour long commute to my university.
I love this forum because so many intelligent, clever people come together and work up really valid, insightful theories and lines of inquiry, it's really amazing to behold. Websleuths is like a think-tank for criminal investigation, I wouldn't be surprised if detectives working on cold cases really come here to get fresh ideas on angles to investigate. And everyone cares about the victims, it's not a vulgar gathering of rubberneckers, it's a collection of people who genuinely care and realize the gravity of the subject matter.
:heart: :heart: :heart:

You really have been so accurate about everything in this case that I pay close attention to your theories. I think it is great you are studying that line of work. You will be SUPER at it!

 

[WhoaJo]

Sorry for the change of subject, but Col Mustard brought this up in the last thread, and I meant to respond:

Originally Posted by Colonel Mustard

"Local RUMOR, but from reliable rumor sources, says that he told the police he'd been hunting and that's where the scratches came from. Not stating this as fact though. FWIW"

Just in case the rumor has legs, I looked up the GA 2011 hunting season calendar. Turns out there is no legal hunting during the month of June in GA. I'm not saying that would prevent a law school graduate studying for the BAR from doing so in his copious free time.

Of course it not being hunting season doesn't mean a thing, but it does leave questions in the mind. Also, if the rumor's true and he's a hunter, he more than likely has first-hand experience that would aid in dismembering a corpse.

Here's the link, but it seems to come up with some redundancies. Hope it's live. If not, you guys should be able to pick out enough info to reconstruct the address:

http://www.dobbins.afrc.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-110105-049.pdf

 

[angelanalyzes]

Thanks, sandstorm & angelanalyzes -

Actually, I did ask Angel another question, but I think she declined to answer out of respect for the guidelines of this site.

I asked what the background of someone who would commit such an aberrant crime might look like.

Since Angel's answer to that question might reflect upon the family of the suspect, I'm guessing that she was exercising discretion. That doesn't mean I'm not dying to hear it! LOL!

Actually, I missed that part of your question and just ran with the other, lol.
It's a bit harder for me to speculate on what such a person's background might look like, because time and time again I've seen that it's not always easy to predict this kind of behavior necessarily just from analyzing a person's upbringing.
Certainly a few things one might look for are odd explosive outbursts, Conduct Disorder, and imo no known history of relationships. It would not surprise me if the person who committed this crime had some level of confusion about their own sexuality.

 

[MaconMom]

Sorry for the change of subject, but Col Mustard brought this up in the last thread, and I meant to respond:

Originally Posted by Colonel Mustard

"Local RUMOR, but from reliable rumor sources, says that he told the police he'd been hunting and that's where the scratches came from. Not stating this as fact though. FWIW"

Just in case the rumor has legs, I looked up the GA 2011 hunting season calendar. Turns out there is no legal hunting during the month of June in GA. I'm not saying that would prevent a law school graduate studying for the BAR from doing so in his copious free time.

Of course it not being hunting season doesn't mean a thing, but it does leave questions in the mind. Also, if the rumor's true and he's a hunter, he more than likely has first-hand experience that would aid in dismembering a corpse.

Here's the link, but it seems to come up with some redundancies. Hope it's live. If not, you guys should be able to pick out enough info to reconstruct the address:

http://www.dobbins.afrc.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-110105-049.pdf

And keep in mind he owned 3 guns but had never shot them, according to GMD. I guess he could have been bow hunting, but I kind of doubt it. He doesn't strike me as a hunter. Wonder if he even owns any hunting stuff (camo, etc)?

Actually when I first read the rumor, I thought he meant he had been hunting for LG (like in the brush or something).

 

[~SuperSleuth~]

Wha-do-ya-know... SM has his own emoticon...
Body? :thud: :detective:

 

[angelanalyzes]

That's an interesting point.
If it were full, or he didn't want to go back and dump his own trash on top to cover it,
this might have been a good enough reason for him to take the extra risk of rolling
the bin into Apt #1.

You know what, that's a good point, if it were really late at night he'd have felt safe enough to roll one of the bins into that apartment to feel almost totally secure as he worked. There were at least 3 bins on the left side of that apartment, 1 missing in the middle of the night wouldn't raise much attention, especially if it was just for a short period of time. The bins are literally right next to the downstairs apt with the refrigerator, so he wouldn't have to risk rolling the bins a long distance across a parking lot or anything. Certainly a possibility, one of several.

 

[ThinMan]

I would like to see where the Fish n' Pig story was debunked.

True, I agree that both his weirdness and her desirability have been greatly exaggerated.

However-I still think there is a pretty solid nugget of truth in both of those archetypes here. I went to school with both of them, I observed the way both of them interacted with our peers- and I definitely don't think it's out of the question.

It's not because I think it makes a more dramatic story, or because I think the weird guy logically HAS to have a crush on the pretty/outgoing girl; I believe it is possible based on my observations of both of them separately. I never observed them together, so clearly I can't speak to that- but what I know of both of them, it doesn't seem like the infatuation theory would be that far-fetched.

I agree, Lawette. The infatuation, got to have her, theory is a possibility. I just haven't seen evidence of it. That is, surely one of your classmates DID see them together and could say whether SMD acted like a sick puppy around her. I'll look for the Fish 'n Pig correction cite, but will have to search all the up-threads unless somebody else knows where I read that.

It's not an unlikely theory, but I believe others are equally plausible until we hear some real evidence that there WAS an infatuation in fact.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandstorm
*Anything is possible, but what are the odds that the size 8 Nine West shoes I am wearing do not belong to the "same such" size 8 Nine West shoe box that is outside in the trash?*
All I am saying: If the "same such" shoe fits.... : )

Sandstorm ITA regarding the semantics about what is stated in the warrant, specifically this:

A Stanley brand hacksaw was found in a locked storage closet at the apartment complex. That hacksaw was submitted to FBI Crime lab for analysis, and testing confirmed the presence of the victim's DNA on the blade. A package for the same such Stanley brand hacksaw was found in the apartment of the accused.<snipped direct quote from Stephen McDaniel's arrest warrant>.

*

Thank you, Sandstorm for bringing the true and very basic logic that is necessary to see it for what it is..*

*The most important, most relevant facts are as clear cut as the day is long with no semantics to argue and nothing but a very direct and to the point statement IMO. It is the first statement made right out of the gate on the arrest warrant.. Leaves no room to misconstrue as long as one understands the English language:

Accused did cause the death of and did dismember the body of Lauren Giddings, the victim. <snipped direct quote from Stephen McDaniel's arrest warrant>

It right out of the gate states in very clear verbiage the facts of the case and tells everything there is to know that Stephen McDaniel, the accused murdered and dismembered Lauren.. There's no wondering or question it is direct and to the point stating who dismembered Lauren.. It then goes directly into the other known facts regarding the saw, DNA, etc(as indicated prior)..
Stephen McDaniels murdered and dismembered Lauren just like it says in the very first words of the very first sentence of the arrest warrant..

Furthermore what is not usually mentioned that is of much importance is the fact that is stated immediately preceding the statement regarding the hacksaw in the arrest warrant..it IMO is key to the statement in further tying Stephen McDaniel to the hacksaw, and therefor to the crime of murder and dismemberment of Lauren Giddings..
As it quoted below:

Said accused had in his possession a master key that unlocked every door in the apartment complex.

Immediately followed by:

A Stanley brand hacksaw was found in a locked storage closet at the apartment complex.

IMO the statement rarely discussed is in direct conjunction to it's statement that follows..as I said further tying SM to the evidence and crime..


***** And on a much lighter note..lol*******

Original Post by backwoods <snipped for focus>
you speak to and respond to posts that correspond with your own theories -- sure nothing wrong with that. Some of us, I think, are just using this forum differently at this point. I read almost every post, because I don't yet have a firm opinion in this case. Just a difference in where we are with it. And have learned a lot from your posts, for sure, enjoy reading them, even when I don't agree. I also appreciate that usually, if I ask a question or ask for confirmation on something in your posts, you don't seem to take immediate offense or take an honest question for some kind of invitation to confrontation (or, if you do, you hide it well).

Couldn't resist chiming in on what a gem my pal knoxy is.. She is one smart cookie, don't let her subtlety fool ya..lol.She is one no nonsense kinda woman who quickly and easily discerns fact from fiction and doesn't have time for rubbish issues that just distract and cause some to get sidetracked.. Not knoxy..lol..She is one classy chick who I've yet to meet a soul who doesn't enjoy her intelligent, well thought out posts..when seeing she's on a case ya know it's gonna be just that much more enjoyable posting with a gem like knoxy!!


**<link to the Arrest Warrant of Stephen Mark McDaniel>**
http://abovethelaw.com/2011/08/the-plot-thickens-say-hello-to-hacksaw-mcdaniel/

 

[WhoaJo]

Wha-do-ya-know... SM has his own emoticon...
Body? :thud: :detective:

Funny, Super!

 

[PsychoMom]

Actually, I missed that part of your question and just ran with the other, lol.
It's a bit harder for me to speculate on what such a person's background might look like, because time and time again I've seen that it's not always easy to predict this kind of behavior necessarily just from analyzing a person's upbringing.
Certainly a few things one might look for are odd explosive outbursts, Conduct Disorder, and imo no known history of relationships. It would not surprise me if the person who committed this crime had some level of confusion about their own sexuality.

Those are the exact things I have been looking for in McD's past, and I can't seem to find them. The hints about "scratching with his long nails" has never been clarified as intentional deep scratches, or accidental scratching that happens with long nails when they reach for something at the same time or something like that. It was a piece of a comment, so we do not know the context.

But, other than that one little bit of a comment, we do not hear about this past history with him. No history of extreme behavioral problems in school. No hints at a juvenile record. No stories of him torturing the neighborhood pets. Nothing. While it looks like things are leaning his way, there is nothing in his background indicating this type of violence brewing. It is strange. I keep searching for this information. This is a pretty big leap for a first violent offense.

 

[Backwoods]

I think AngelAnalyzes should become an expert witness for this trial, I think she has been spot on all along since day one about this thing. I also think the quotes from the Giddings family we are seeing now are typical guilt feelings one would expect now that they know what McD did, but they really believed he was harmless. Did anyone see the Joe Kovacs article about the crayon drawing on McD's mirror in his apt. with a rainbow that said "I Love You , Lauren" that MPD Paid special attention to ?

bolding above is mine, for focus

About that drawing, which GM says was done by Stephen's niece:

Been meaning to ask -- how would she have known the police paid so much attention to it? From questioning of SM after he was in jail, that he told her about? Or -- and here's what I'm really wanting to know -- would he have been with them during the search he gave permission for? How does that work, a search with permission? Do they still have to state what they are searching for, as with a search warrant? Or can they just pretty much look around at anything and everything?

 

[Backwoods]

Does GM not realize that we have learned more from her media interviews about privileged information, than rumors or LE put together?

Also in that same story ..."I have heard all kinds of wild ideas as far as what he bought, but I haven’t checked his receipts. He hasn’t told me what’s on his receipts. The police have his receipts, and they have not shared that information with us.”

Is she saying that she has access to the receipt from Wal-Mart?

​

Sounds to me like she's saying she does not.

 

[PsychoMom]

I would like to see where the Fish n' Pig story was debunked.

True, I agree that both his weirdness and her desirability have been greatly exaggerated.

However-I still think there is a pretty solid nugget of truth in both of those archetypes here. I went to school with both of them, I observed the way both of them interacted with our peers- and I definitely don't think it's out of the question.

It's not because I think it makes a more dramatic story, or because I think the weird guy logically HAS to have a crush on the pretty/outgoing girl; I believe it is possible based on my observations of both of them separately. I never observed them together, so clearly I can't speak to that- but what I know of both of them, it doesn't seem like the infatuation theory would be that far-fetched.

If you know McD personally, can you give some examples of what in his behavior indicated the infatuation with LG is plausible? You are mentioning your observation of him, even though you have not seen them together. I would like to hear it from someone with direct knowledge of his behavior. If he is the killer, it still makes a difference. If he was infatuated with LG, it makes him one kind of killer. If he wasn't, it makes him another kind of killer. While it may not help LG, it may prevent another death down the road. We could learn from this case and possibly intervene earlier if another person is heading down the same tragic path as McD may have taken.

Thank you for helping me out on this.

 

[Backwoods]

Exactly! But maybe in his mind he imagined it coming from LG and therefore saved it where he could look at it every day ?? Chills is right .

If he had a lot of other little mementos around from his adopted siblings, that might take some of your chill off, possibly? And we just don't know.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Still catching up but did know off the top of my head an article where the family says, "he could've had some psycho love affair with and couldn't stand that she was
Leaving(moving away).. Don't have link handy but should be very easy to google it.. It was stated by her mom in the Washington Post article that was 5 pages in length, including a 10 photo slideshow..

(this post is in reference of southern comforts request for articles or statements made by Lauren's family about possible reasons for why he murdered her..)

ETA: the statement made by mom also ended with her saying, " if this were the reason then he most likely murdered the one person who had been the kindest to him."paraphrased but extremely similar to actual statement made by mom, Karen Giddings..

 

[Pig]

bolding above is mine, for focus

About that drawing, which GM says was done by Stephen's niece:

Been meaning to ask -- how would she have known the police paid so much attention to it? From questioning of SM after he was in jail, that he told her about? Or -- and here's what I'm really wanting to know -- would he have been with them during the search he gave permission for? How does that work, a search with permission? Do they still have to state what they are searching for, as with a search warrant? Or can they just pretty much look around at anything and everything?

Backwoods, a search with permission is just that. McD could have been present during the search, but didn't have to be. McD would have the authority to give permission to search part of his apartment or all of it, with or without him present. It is the one giving the permission that defines the scope of the permissive search.

 

[Pig]

Also, in response to Pearl's question about whether Glenda McD's statements would be admissible in court or not because they were hearsay - they will likely be admissible. They tend to prove motive and could also be evidence of prior inconsistencies if McD changes his story.