GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 # 8

[tomkat]

Exactly - just like the key in the fridge rumor, which remains unsubstantiated and also was brought up again earlier tonight.

Very important that if you post a rumor, preface it with that. Otherwise, someone is going to read and interpret it as fact, then bring it up later, thinking it's true.

Never thought it was fact, just wondered where it came from........the end

 

[Backwoods]

FWIW, I remember the article too. It's one of those instances where my mind took a partial snapshot and I can actually see some of the printed words. The article said that LE had looked into some purchases by SM, but that they had found the articles intact in his apartment and that he claimed he had purchased them for camping. I didn't get any impression that it was the same camping trip LG was planning. This was before mention of the mid-July scrutinizing of specifically Wal-Mart receipts. It did not mention a store.

Normally having those mental snapshot words makes it easy for me to locate something via search engine, but this particular article is not coming up. I am positive it was there, though.

I wonder if it sometimes happens that some things that appear in the print version of the Macon Telegraph end up not being in the online version or get edited out at some point because the source ends up being bad or there is some other problem with the information? Hmmm. Might be an interesting question for the online chat Monday with the reporters...

 

[WhoaJo]

Also to clarify: By my posts about this, I absolutely did not intend any victim blaming! Heck, I don't even know if SM was resentful at all. Then there is the separate question, "Was that emotion warranted?" As I wrote previously, that phrase about making him a project just struck a chord in me, apparently a really strong one because I could feel myself getting emotional as I was writing about my experiences (!), and I wondered if that could've been a factor. Maybe this wasn't clear, but I meant it in the same way as someone might look at one Ted Bundy's victims and wonder, "Did the fact that she had straight dark hair parted down the middle have anything to do with it?" (OK bad example because we know that yes this did have something to do with it for Bundy, but I hope you see my point...even though it had something to do with why these victims were preferred, it's not as if they "got what they deserved" because of how they did their hair.)

PJD, don't get me wrong, I know that being someone's full-time mission is no fun, and clearly the individual you referred to was patronizing to you in a way that was deeply hurtful. I can see how someone using the word "project" could bring up lots of feelings for you.

From everything I've read about her, I doubt that Lauren would have even thought of her neighbor in that way, though, or used such a word in relation to him. It's condescension that breeds resentment, as you well know.

It's also clear that you weren't trying to blame Lauren. Thank you for being able to see the difference in your situation and this one.

As for Jo getting ahead of the Whoa! - something that happens often enough! - I was just trying to keep the conversation from straying into the territory of judging the victim for her efforts to include her neighbor.

 

[Givsmetheshivers]

Two Parties

First party was at Fish n Pig and McD was not invited but showed up.
The two famililes, Giddings and _______ , who were jointly giving the party thought that the other had invited McD.
Neither had.

Second party was at the Hummingbird.Lauren mentioned to McD to go out that night to the Hummingbird. She was surprised to see him when her mother pointed him out. He was invited to that gathering but was alone playing darts.

Articles:

Fish n Pig
The family had seen McDaniel at a graduation party thrown jointly by the Giddings family and another law student’s family at the Fish N’ Pig restaurant in May.
McDaniel attended the party. Although both students’ family members and friends were at the party, it seemed to family members that McDaniel was there uninvited, Mann said.
He said Giddings was always kind to McDaniel.Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/07/07/1623060/body-is-lauren-giddings-police.html#ixzz1UvQkekYz

Hummingbird
Graduation day was May 14. Two nights earlier, Lauren and her family celebrated at the Hummingbird Stage & Taproom in downtown Macon. The bar was packed with joyful class*mates.
Karen glanced up and saw McDaniel and pointed him out to Lauren.
"Oh, look, he showed up!" Karen remembers her daughter saying. Lauren had suggested that McDaniel come. "She was surprised to see him," Karen says, "but happy."
He was standing in a corner throwing darts. Alone.
http://www.ongo.com/v/1550554/-1/EEDC3B7D04FE94AE/md-familys-journey-into-heartache

Why does the Fish and Pig thing sound very clear to me?
To me, this sentence gives me the impression that this wasn't a "party, party" but more of a dinner. McD walks in and the buzz starts. "Why is Stephen here? Did you invite him?" "NO." "Did you?" "No." "Well, should we ask him to leave?" "No that would be awkward."

I think Lauren's family has been very fair in their statements.

 

[Givsmetheshivers]

Personality disorders are not good for insanity pleas.

:banghead: I know. I was saying he was NOT INSANE.

 

[Givsmetheshivers]

Quotes from Macon.com:
“It was always something he was concerned about,” Glenda McDaniel says. “If there was another attack on U.S. soil, he wanted to be prepared. ... He had read up on what things would be concerns if something like that happened, such as contamination of the water source. So he had lots of soft drink bottles (in his apartment) that when they were empty, he filled them up with water and stacked them neatly under his kitchen sink.”

We lose our power all the time and we have well water....so we keep bottles of water.

...but stacking bottles of water for possible terrorist contamination of water sources in MACON, GA is a little different than hording.

 

[~SuperSleuth~]

What looks abnormal in one light can be perfectly normal in another.
I keep looking for true behaviors which cannot be normalized.

If everything is viewed through a kaleidoscope, anything can be normalized. :twocents:

The reason I keep looking is because I am trying to understand him.

IMO... not possible.
In fact, if you were to reach the point where your mind could truly understand him, they'd have to put you away :crazy:

 

[~SuperSleuth~]

I wonder if it sometimes happens that some things that appear in the print version of the Macon Telegraph end up not being in the online version or get edited out at some point because the source ends up being bad or there is some other problem with the information? Hmmm. Might be an interesting question for the online chat Monday with the reporters...

I'd like to think that if this occurred, they would amend the online copy with a "correction",
and issue one in the next print edition. Not sure what their policy is... or if they always follow it.

 

[~SuperSleuth~]

PJD, don't get me wrong, I know that being someone's full-time mission is no fun, and clearly the individual you referred to was patronizing to you in a way that was deeply hurtful. I can see how someone using the word "project" could bring up lots of feelings for you.

From everything I've read about her, I doubt that Lauren would have even thought of her neighbor in that way, though, or used such a word in relation to him. It's condescension that breeds resentment, as you well know.

It's also clear that you weren't trying to blame Lauren. Thank you for being able to see the difference in your situation and this one.

As for Jo getting ahead of the Whoa! - something that happens often enough! - I was just trying to keep the conversation from straying into the territory of judging the victim for her efforts to include her neighbor.

I doubt this as well.
However, if he were over-sensitive to this and/or over-analytical of her words/actions,
I could see the possibility of him seeing it that way.

That said, I personally don't feel this is the case or has anything to do with this motives. :twocents:

 

[PsychoMom]

If everything is viewed through a kaleidoscope, anything can be normalized. :twocents:

IMO... not possible.
In fact, if you were to reach the point where your mind could truly understand him, they'd have to put you away :crazy:

Not everything can be normalized. I am trying to find the points that would not be considered normal if he were not a suspect. With all the people around who dress strange and do the gaming thing, those things can be normal. Since there had been water problems in town, keeping water is normal, even if his mom may have thought it was for another reason. Or maybe it was a combination of things. But, I have a family we are friends with who still have their Y2K closet stocked. Very functional family, just overly concerned and prepared. Those kind of things.

Understanding it does not mean I want to accept it. But I do want to understand it. I want to see how normal could transform into monster. That is info I could use at work. If I can find the key event, or the trigger, I might be able to prevent it from becoming a reality one day in a patient before me.

 

[southern_comfort]

Not everything can be normalized. I am trying to find the points that would not be considered normal if he were not a suspect. With all the people around who dress strange and do the gaming thing, those things can be normal. Since there had been water problems in town, keeping water is normal, even if his mom may have thought it was for another reason. Or maybe it was a combination of things. But, I have a family we are friends with who still have their Y2K closet stocked. Very functional family, just overly concerned and prepared. Those kind of things.

Understanding it does not mean I want to accept it. But I do want to understand it. I want to see how normal could transform into monster. That is info I could use at work. If I can find the key event, or the trigger, I might be able to prevent it from becoming a reality one day in a patient before me.

I was sitting here wondering if maybe I am schizotypal. I am glad to hear you say this!

I keep cases of bottled water in my pantry for emergencies (I started for Y2K and just never stopped), as well as packed backpacks with emergency supplies for 5 days for my family; I like to be by myself and often have trouble making small-talk; I like Tolkien and I speak stuttering Sindarin (Tolkien elven language) (leftover from days past). I don't have any chainmail in my wardrobe, but I look at the gorgeous chainmail every year at the Renaissance festival (never miss it.. love it!) and always feel tempted to buy a headpiece. Maybe this year.

I wasn't really wondering if I'm schizotypal. I lead a very normal, very traditional life. (But I do all of those things).

 

[MaconMom]

We lose our power all the time and we have well water....so we keep bottles of water.

...but stacking bottles of water for possible terrorist contamination of water sources in MACON, GA is a little different than hording.

I don't know if you're a local, but Macon is right next to Warner Robins which is home to a large air force base which could be a target for terrorists. I don't think it's weird to stock up on things in the event of a disaster. When 9/11 happened, a lot of people started stocking up on water. My husband did it. We have maybe 20 gallons or so of the stuff upstairs in milk jugs. And we live in Macon.

Additionally, it's not just a terrorist attack concern. Macon Water Authority is terrible.. they have problems with their water service a lot. And, we had a flood in 1994 that knocked out water service for the entire city. We ended up having to pump water out of our pool to wash dishes, flush toilets, etc.

So, to sum it up.. I dont think this is a weird thing to do for someone who is concerned about a natural disaster or terrorist attack, no matter where they live.

 

[PsychoMom]

I was sitting here wondering if maybe I am schizotypal. I am glad to hear you say this!

I keep cases of bottled water in my pantry for emergencies (I started for Y2K and just never stopped), as well as packed backpacks with emergency supplies for 5 days for my family; I like to be by myself and often have trouble making small-talk; I like Tolkien and I speak stuttering Sindarin (Tolkien elven language) (leftover from days past). I don't have any chainmail in my wardrobe, but I look at the gorgeous chainmail every year at the Renaissance festival (never miss it.. love it!) and always feel tempted to buy a headpiece. Maybe this year.

I wasn't really wondering if I'm schizotypal. I lead a very normal, very traditional life. (But I do all of those things).

Man, you're weird! LOL! I'm kidding.

You should see some of my friends. I have them all across the spectrum. I have the extremely straight laced friends. I have the redneck friends. I have the super successful professional friends (well, not professional friends, but professionals that are my friends). I have the tattoo freak friends. I have steam punk friends. I have the Desperate Housewife friends. I have all kinds of friends. When I die, I want to see the looks on all their faces when they all get to meet each other. I'm a chameleon. I blend in with all of them somehow.

 

[~SuperSleuth~]

Not everything can be normalized. I am trying to find the points that would not be considered normal if he were not a suspect. With all the people around who dress strange and do the gaming thing, those things can be normal. Since there had been water problems in town, keeping water is normal, even if his mom may have thought it was for another reason. Or maybe it was a combination of things. But, I have a family we are friends with who still have their Y2K closet stocked. Very functional family, just overly concerned and prepared. Those kind of things.

This is, of course, very subjective.

For me, these things would not stand out as abnormal:
- being stocked up on food/water
- writing a "Lord of the Rings" type novel and making up your own elfish
- having a sword and knife collection

But these things would:
- wearing chainmail to school
- wearing biker gloves with the fingertips cut out to allow long fingernails to protrude

Even being really into these games where you basically live some fantasy life
or playing those violent, gruesome role-playing games, and even watching horror movies
are all border-line issues with me.

Understanding it does not mean I want to accept it. But I do want to understand it. I want to see how normal could transform into monster. That is info I could use at work. If I can find the key event, or the trigger, I might be able to prevent it from becoming a reality one day in a patient before me.

I can see how certain behaviors should be viewed as clues someone may have some
"issues" and may be predisposed to commit certain crimes.
And that particular family/life circumstances, combined with a person's own basic personality traits,
could create a situation in which that person may become predisposed to commit crimes.

But, to me, each individuals thought processes are far to unique and complex
to be able to understand why they make certain choices.
And some people, IMO, are just simply "wired wrong"
And given the complexity of the human brain, determining the how/why behind these
people's actions/decisions is something that will simply never be understood.

 

[PsychoMom]

~snipped for focus~

I can see how certain behaviors should be viewed as clues someone may have some
"issues" and may be predisposed to commit certain crimes.
And that particular family/life circumstances, combined with a person's own basic personality traits,
could create a situation in which that person may become predisposed to commit crimes.

But, to me, each individuals thought processes are far to unique and complex
to be able to understand why they make certain choices.
And some people, IMO, are just simply "wired wrong"
And given the complexity of the human brain, determining the how/why behind these
people's actions/decisions is something that will simply never be understood.

I agree, we may never understand everything someone does, but I will always keep trying to. I think the best way to prevent similar things from happening in the future, you have to try to figure out everything you can from why it happened before. The complexity of the human brain is something I have to delve into all the time. Sometimes, it is a dark and scary place.

My job is to try to help people find their way out of that place and to bring some light back into their head. I don't think for one minute I can cure everyone. I do think I can get some people back to a normal life. There are some, though, that are always going to be in that dark and scary place. The best you can do then is to try to reduce the risks they may put out there.

By breaking down the things in McD's life, you may see where it began. And we are still receiving info. At some point, we may find the smoking gun to a breaking point (before this event). And it may connect how these other currently trivial things fit in. We may discover how he came to be a killer. Or we may discover he is a little different, but no killer. There is still that chance he did not do this. We are tearing apart every moment of his life and turning everything into some kind of sign of deviant behavior right now. If he is completely innocent, these same behaviors are not that important. So, when I hear the behaviors, I look at both sides of it. The positive and the negative of it. I am waiting for the balance to tip where it is nothing but negative. Not there yet.

 

[ThinMan]

Wow~! Websleuths are great even at sleuthing our own previous posts! Many thanks to SuperSleuth, GypsiesTramps&Thieves and Southern Comfort for tracking down the origin of the Fish 'n Pig story (from LG's cousin who was there) and the point at which it was questioned by HarryPotter). HP's questioning (which I admit I mistook for more than opinion) was based on the doubt that just because SMD was at the restaurant didn't mean he had "crashed the private party."

Whatever the truth of that event -- whether he crashed it or was coincidentally there or there with someone's invitation -- I raised the issue to query whether it was good grounds for the infatuation theory of SMD's motivation to murder. It still seems (to me, JMO) a slender reed on which to support a theory that he was so driven by infatuation that he did the deed.

JMO, of course, but it remains my opinion that the "beauty and the beast" motivation theory is not very well supported by facts that we actually know we know about SMD & LG.

With thanks to all and malice toward none . . . peace ~

 

[angelanalyzes]

Not everything can be normalized. I am trying to find the points that would not be considered normal if he were not a suspect. With all the people around who dress strange and do the gaming thing, those things can be normal. Since there had been water problems in town, keeping water is normal, even if his mom may have thought it was for another reason. Or maybe it was a combination of things. But, I have a family we are friends with who still have their Y2K closet stocked. Very functional family, just overly concerned and prepared. Those kind of things.

Understanding it does not mean I want to accept it. But I do want to understand it. I want to see how normal could transform into monster. That is info I could use at work. If I can find the key event, or the trigger, I might be able to prevent it from becoming a reality one day in a patient before me.

I understand the desire to do that, because that is what psychologists who research the criminal mind spend their lives attempting to do. The problem is, so often it is found that there isn't one tell tale behavior that would not be considered normal that ever comes to light. In fact, in many cases people do go from the fantasy phase straight to the violent crime phase without any apparent gradual escalation.
So far it is still a huge topic of controversy, because everyone is looking for that unified theory and the patterns aren't consistent enough-that we've identified-to construct one yet.
Stephen may also be an outlier.

 

[angelanalyzes]

What I would love to have seen is an unsub/offender profile developed before Stephen was ever named a POI or suspect [it tends to taint the objectivity of the profile in the eyes of some people] done by someone like Roy Hazelwood in terms of what kind of person he'd expect to commit the Lauren Giddings murder. From what I know as a student, I do expect that given the circumstances of the crime, a few things would have been included in that profile IMO:

-Unmarried male, solitary
-Above average to high IQ
-Highly familiar and comfortable with the property
-Known to the victim

A much more detailed profile could be developed with information from the autopsy and other facts of the case not made public.

 

[PsychoMom]

As I said, once we see all the evidence, we may find out what we are missing. Yet, if he ends up being innocent, then all the conjecture in the world won't make him a monster. I do not feel I could vote guilty simply on what we have now. I am going to keep searching for the clue, because, as stated, that is what people in the field of psychology do. We ask questions, and we look for all the clues.

I am intrigued by the profile you posted. Can you provide a link regarding how this profile was determined? It would help everyone to get an idea of how profiles are determined. I have been trained in some profiling, but it is not a specialty of mine. I would enjoy having some good references to turn to.

 

[PsychoMom]

Wow! I was trying to find some info on criminal profiling and found this: http://www.fbijobs.gov/611.asp The requirements to be a qualified 'profiler' (the FBI doesn't use that term) are extensive. Advanced degree and then a minimum 3 years as an FBI agent, usually 8-10 years as an agent. DANG! You gotta start young to do this. I feel even older just reading about it. You got your work cut out for you. Go for it!