GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #11

[Razz]

I'm a latecomer - why do they think he was murdered on the Saturday?
Good point about the sandwiches, IF they weren't murdered until then. Why do they not believe it was on the Thursday evening?

In my experience, it's much better to make cucumber sandwiches very close to when they'll be eaten than making them beforehand. Otherwise the cukes can make the sandwich soggy. I suspect SD was meticulous about those sandwiches and would have made them no sooner than an hour before the party.

 

[deugirtni]

In my experience, it's much better to make cucumber sandwiches very close to when they'll be eaten than making them beforehand. Otherwise the cukes can make the sandwich soggy. I suspect SD was meticulous about those sandwiches and would have made them no sooner than an hour before the party.

Yes, obviously.. but I'm asking why 'they' think 'he' died on Saturday as opposed to sometime late on Thursday, the last time he was seen/heard from? (Also since his clothes he was wearing, had been the last thing he wore, as they were still out in the bedroom)

 

[Razz]

Yes, obviously.. but I'm asking why 'they' think 'he' died on Saturday as opposed to sometime late on Thursday, the last time he was seen/heard from? (Also since his clothes he was wearing, had been the last thing he wore, as they were still out in the bedroom)

Well, maybe the cream cheese was out on the counter getting soft to a spreading consistency.....

And the thing about him wearing the same thing two days in a row...heck yes! As long as it's clean, why go through the hassle of hanging it up again or putting it in a dirty pile to be washed? At their age, there's no way I'd make live more difficult that it needs to be. So, if he wore it on Thursday, he was going to wear it again Friday.

Maybe Mrs D. was an early riser, gets dressed first thing, goes out and gets the paper, sits and does her crossword. My sister does this exact thing. Wasn't Friday's USA Today crossword still half finished? My sister will not get up until she has completed the entire puzzle.

So, it seems there's a case to strongly suggest this happened on Friday morning.

 

[RTC]

Yes, obviously.. but I'm asking why 'they' think 'he' died on Saturday as opposed to sometime late on Thursday, the last time he was seen/heard from? (Also since his clothes he was wearing, had been the last thing he wore, as they were still out in the bedroom)

From whatI read it was based on the crossword puzzle SD did daily. I guess the Sat puzzle was complete. Do we know if SD had cucumbers in the fridge? We know RD bought bread on Thursday.
I am having a very hard time with SD being removed from the home period, let alone in broad daylight. Fishing is a very early morning activity so the risk is over the top. I guess the best clue is the netting. If it is actually laundry netting , that might be easier to source.
RD hand gash and SD’s hair in it is a clue. I wonder if they analyzed the hair to know if it came from a live SD or deceased SD. I think they can test for that, not sure.

 

[Lawdawg99]

Do we know which puzzle was being worked on by SD, Friday or Saturday? I don't remember seeing anywhere that it was Saturday's crossword. I also don't remember if it was said that it was completed or just being worked on. I guess I have had in my mind that the murders were on Friday. I need to go back and re-read all this info.

 

[Razz]

Do we know which puzzle was being worked on by SD, Friday or Saturday? I don't remember seeing anywhere that it was Saturday's crossword. I also don't remember if it was said that it was completed or just being worked on. I guess I have had in my mind that the murders were on Friday. I need to go back and re-read all this info.

USA Today only has publication Monday thru Friday....but it depends on when the paper was delivered. If they received Friday's edition on Saturday....and depending on what time it was delivered, that could put us right back to Friday or Saturday.

 

[Lawdawg99]

USA Today only has publication Monday thru Friday....but it depends on when the paper was delivered. If they received Friday's edition on Saturday....and depending on what time it was delivered, that could put us right back to Friday or Saturday.

You are right. I obviously assumed Friday was when the murders were committed due to SD working on Friday's puzzle. My Father also said Expect or Assume Nothing and ye shall not be Disappointed. Thanks Razz for keeping me straight.

 

[wildebeest]

What if this was a coverup to a murder suicide? I think I read the only clothes laying out were the same clothes RD was wearing on Thursday seen on the grocery video. Seems a bit strange to me, since they think he was murdered on Sat. Most people change clothes daily.
Also I read SD was suppose to bring cucumber sandwiches for Derby Party, I wonder if they had all the ingredients to do that. Surely she would have started making them by Sat morning?
What If RD got angry, hit SD over the head, hid her body in lake, came home, hanged himself in garage with his robe belt. Someone takes head to cover ligature mark and make it look like a murder to protect family. It could explain body being moved, robe under body. Etc

With all due respect, it doesn’t make sense to me.

IMHO

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I'm a latecomer - why do they think he was murdered on the Saturday?
Good point about the sandwiches, IF they weren't murdered until then. Why do they not believe it was on the Thursday evening?

I think it's been determined mostly friday night or early saturday? IIRC, something to do with the mail, the worked puzzle friday night from a Saturday paper that is delivered on Friday.........sandwiches were never mentioned by media or SS..........however thursday RD was purchasing cucumbers and a few items at publix nearby

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

What do we think LE and investigators would have determined happen to RD and SD if they had BOTH been left dead in garage??? Everything else the same, nothing stolen etc but she wasn't found miles away but simply dead in the garage or house too

 

[TJtennispro]

IMO they buy SD body in that location since that’s the last possible spot that you can before pulling the boat out of the water and driving away hauling your boat.

It’s the perfect crime.

If they were both found in the garage I think certain folks might’ve been looked at more suspiciously. The body is meant to be found. It was just a diversion.

The part that creeps me out the most is SS talking about the guy on the lawn and what the “neighbor didn’t see”

 

[jonnyrock]

What do we think LE and investigators would have determined happen to RD and SD if they had BOTH been left dead in garage??? Everything else the same, nothing stolen etc but she wasn't found miles away but simply dead in the garage or house too

That is the most vexing aspect of this double murder. "Elderly couple found murdered; nothing appears to be missing....." and we'd have a garden variety double murder with two bodies lying dead in close proximity to one another. Yes it would be tragic and yes it would be quite unusual, the killing of two seniors, with no apparent robbery motive or extortion attempt. But no. What we have is an elaborate, time consuming operation involving a lot of moving parts. Must have been rehearsed as this could not have been an impromptu visit. The killers came with one objective: kill both Dermonds.
Why did the murders have to be so complicated and over the top, removing one body from the residence while leaving another behind, headless no less?

 

[Lawdawg99]

That is the most vexing aspect of this double murder. "Elderly couple found murdered; nothing appears to be missing....." and we'd have a garden variety double murder with two bodies lying dead in close proximity to one another. Yes it would be tragic and yes it would be quite unusual, the killing of two seniors, with no apparent robbery motive or extortion attempt. But no. What we have is an elaborate, time consuming operation involving a lot of moving parts. Must have been rehearsed as this could not have been an impromptu visit. The killers came with one objective: kill both Dermonds.
Why did the murders have to be so complicated and over the top, removing one body from the residence while leaving another behind, headless no less?

I just hope the day comes when someone reveals something that gives us some answers cause it makes no sense to me.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

EXXX-AAACTLY

Now maybe some can wrap their head around what is really happening here

This was not meant to just kill and look ordinary, dang, then this would be solved by now!!!

It was a diversion, what I've been saying all along.......that location.......clearly they headed down river from the "D's" dock if by water, and I dont know all of the public boat ramps but i know 2 right before the dam.....been there, very quiet and secluded, IIRC, no street lights or surveillance

Right on the main river........WOW< genious to HIDE SOMEONE on the main river to prevent detection... HA!

He did say that.........knowing they didnt see what would solve this?

Right on TJ

IMO they buy SD body in that location since that’s the last possible spot that you can before pulling the boat out of the water and driving away hauling your boat.

It’s the perfect crime.

If they were both found in the garage I think certain folks might’ve been looked at more suspiciously. The body is meant to be found. It was just a diversion.

The part that creeps me out the most is SS talking about the guy on the lawn and what the “neighbor didn’t see”

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

That is the most vexing aspect of this double murder. "Elderly couple found murdered; nothing appears to be missing....." and we'd have a garden variety double murder with two bodies lying dead in close proximity to one another. Yes it would be tragic and yes it would be quite unusual, the killing of two seniors, with no apparent robbery motive or extortion attempt. But no. What we have is an elaborate, time consuming operation involving a lot of moving parts. Must have been rehearsed as this could not have been an impromptu visit. The killers came with one objective: kill both Dermonds.
Why did the murders have to be so complicated and over the top, removing one body from the residence while leaving another behind, headless no less?

Do we suppose the first one would be less complicated? The only thing we'd be looking at is, "HMM ya'll, who in the world would want these poor nice people dead" INSTEAD of, well was it the mob? Was this neighborhood druggees? Did it have somethign to do with their deceased son who was in drugs? what did RD to make someone so mad in business? Where is SD? Was SD kidnapped? THere was no ransom note.....Why did they haul SD off?

Yeah, well planned and executed, BOTH the beheading of RD AND kidnapping of SD............were DISTRACTIONS.......creates confusion and leaving everyone asking all these questions. Confusion reigns........as was the intent

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I just hope the day comes when someone reveals something that gives us some answers cause it makes no sense to me.

Hey Lawdog! How have you been? Hope all is well

But yes, it does to me Lawdog, if right, as many believe. People just have to stop thinking everyone has a conscience, just because you or I do, doesnt matter the relationship apparenlty

Expert talking about the Chris Watts case said "you will never understand it" but people can be evil, many out there

 

[wildebeest]

Reading through some of the latest posts, here, I have been wondering how the perp(s) gained entrance to the home. I believe we know there was no forced entry, so we must consider different scenarios.

1) one of the Dermonds opened the door, and either asked them in, or the perp(s) pushed their way in. If they asked them in, it would mean they were known to the Dermonds.

2) one of the Dermonds was outside the home and the perp(s) forced them back into the house.

Since they lived in a gated community, they may have felt safe answering the door, even though they didn’t recognize the visitors.

Any other thoughts?

IMHO

 

[TJtennispro]

Reading through some of the latest posts, here, I have been wondering how the perp(s) gained entrance to the home. I believe we know there was no forced entry, so we must consider different scenarios.

1) one of the Dermonds opened the door, and either asked them in, or the perp(s) pushed their way in. If they asked them in, it would mean they were known to the Dermonds.

2) one of the Dermonds was outside the home and the perp(s) forced them back into the house.

Since they lived in a gated community, they may have felt safe answering the door, even though they didn’t recognize the visitors.

Any other thoughts?

IMHO

They came through the water. I believe a door was not locked since the neighbors got in. They without a shadow of a doubt came by water. They knew them well enough I believe that they let them in or got them to come out.

I’ve been to the back of the house, the dam the place they put the boat in. It’s easy to navigate and your not getting caught unless DNR randomly pulls you over which they won’t be that early in lake season.

The timing of the crime is interesting. First Saturday in May is just getting warm enough to have boaters on the water but not warm enough to be busy. So basically they had the lake to themselves. It’s not the busiest lake in the world either way.

 

[wildebeest]

They came through the water. I believe a door was not locked since the neighbors got in. They without a shadow of a doubt came by water. They knew them well enough I believe that they let them in or got them to come out.

I’ve been to the back of the house, the dam the place they put the boat in. It’s easy to navigate and your not getting caught unless DNR randomly pulls you over which they won’t be that early in lake season.

The timing of the crime is interesting. First Saturday in May is just getting warm enough to have boaters on the water but not warm enough to be busy. So basically they had the lake to themselves. It’s not the busiest lake in the world either way.

Thanks, tennis. I like your thinking and it’s nice to hear your thoughts, since you are local. Coming by water, versus coming by car, makes the most sense to me, as there could be cameras and license plate readers involved. Interesting how you say the lake wasn’t very busy in early May. So why wouldn’t they have waited a couple of months to commit the crime? Was there a sense of urgency? We’re bills or payments coming due?

IMHO

 

[TJtennispro]

IMO in the South the lake is really more of a summertime tradition. Memorial Day through Labor Day everyone from Atlanta heads to the lake for some fun.

People Winterize their boats from September/October through April/May. So this crime if done by lake which is the smartest way to do it has a at most 5 month timeframe. On top of that it would take a fool to do it during the summer months so the perps have 6-8 weeks a year to pull this off.

IMO I think they struck the first possible week of the year. The earliest I’ve been out on the lake in a boat is mid May. So yes they needed something done and literally planned and struck at the first possible moment. The fact it happened over the weekend is also quite telling to me.

Thanks, tennis. I like your thinking and it’s nice to hear your thoughts, since you are local. Coming by water, versus coming by car, makes the most sense to me, as there could be cameras and license plate readers involved. Interesting how you say the lake wasn’t very busy in early May. So why wouldn’t they have waited a couple of months to commit the crime? Was there a sense of urgency? We’re bills or payments coming due?

IMHO