GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #12

[kay74]

And isn't it odd that they used the towels from the bathroom located near the garage and never poked around in or took anything in the house?

Nothing was to be touched in the house. Very telling. This is a murder mystery that should be on TV.

 

[TJtennispro]

The average depth of the lake is 21 feet. The lake is deepest near the dam with depths approaching 95 feet.

Yes the tree line that I've been taking about for over a week is opposite side of Lawrence Shoals Boat Ramp. When you're are out on the water near the dam you can tell it's extremely deep!

That map is awesome! I went over it pretty thoroughly and found that all areas of "flooded timber" which are on the opposite sides of the boat ramps (Long and Lawrence), east side had depths 10 feet or less and in most cases about 4 feet. Nowhere on the map in that area, even in the channel itself, around the Dam and 2 miles out is the water depth more than 30 feet. I have no idea what SS is talking about when he says she was found in 47 feet of water???

 

[TJtennispro]

Depth near dam proof

 

[fred&edna]

The average depth of the lake is 21 feet. The lake is deepest near the dam with depths approaching 95 feet.

Yes the tree line that I've been taking about for over a week is opposite side of Lawrence Shoals Boat Ramp. When you're are out on the water near the dam you can tell it's extremely deep!

Just wanted you to know I really appreciate all the info you've posted on this case. And, I enjoyed your comments on the podcast. Looking forward to more info (and any/all video) you can share.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I just finished listening to the 3rd episode of the WS podcast. The interview with the sheriff was very interesting and changed a little bit of my thinking. I understand now why he thinks they were taken and killed somewhere else...no evidence of violence to SD in the garage, but I still can’t imagine that being the case. To think the killer’s would, by boat or car, kidnap the Dermonds, torture and kill them then risk bringing them back to their house, makes no sense to me.
Here’s my theory after listening today. The killers heard a rumor that the Dermonds had a ton of money, or perhaps they just assumed it because they had owned some fast food restaurants. The Dermonds were elderly and assumed to be frail by the killers. The killers came by boat or car. Their intent was to kidnap SD for ransom. They entered the garage and secured SD somehow. RD heard a commotion and interrupted their plan. In the ruckus he was shot in the head. The killers panic and take his head to conceal evidence. They proceed with their kidnapping of SD, and take her somewhere else. Now they’re not sure what to do so heated discussions ensue on how to proceed. Eventually the killers decide to kill SD with a hammer-like object and dispose of her body in the lake, which they do. This scenario would explain why there is so much violence involving RD in the garage but nothing indicating SD was harmed there. It would also explained why their bodies were found in two different places. Just my opinion...today. Please point out any problems with it...kindly.

 

[FinePrint]

I just finished listening to the 3rd episode of the WS podcast. The interview with the sheriff was very interesting and changed a little bit of my thinking. I understand now why he thinks they were taken and killed somewhere else...no evidence of violence to SD in the garage, but I still can’t imagine that being the case. To think the killer’s would, by boat or car, kidnap the Dermonds, torture and kill them then risk bringing them back to their house, makes no sense to me.
Here’s my theory after listening today. The killers heard a rumor that the Dermonds had a ton of money, or perhaps they just assumed it because they had owned some fast food restaurants. The Dermonds were elderly and assumed to be frail by the killers. The killers came by boat or car. Their intent was to kidnap SD for ransom. They entered the garage and secured SD somehow. RD heard a commotion and interrupted their plan. In the ruckus he was shot in the head. The killers panic and take his head to conceal evidence. They proceed with their kidnapping of SD, and take her somewhere else. Now they’re not sure what to do so heated discussions ensue on how to proceed. Eventually the killers decide to kill SD with a hammer-like object and dispose of her body in the lake, which they do. This scenario would explain why there is so much violence involving RD in the garage but nothing indicating SD was harmed there. It would also explained why their bodies were found in two different places. Just my opinion...today. Please point out any problems with it...kindly.

No problems at all.....We are all up in the air with this. Any scenario is worth thinking through and welcomed!!

 

[Valiant]

I just finished listening to the 3rd episode of the WS podcast. The interview with the sheriff was very interesting and changed a little bit of my thinking. I understand now why he thinks they were taken and killed somewhere else...no evidence of violence to SD in the garage, but I still can’t imagine that being the case. To think the killer’s would, by boat or car, kidnap the Dermonds, torture and kill them then risk bringing them back to their house, makes no sense to me.
Here’s my theory after listening today. The killers heard a rumor that the Dermonds had a ton of money, or perhaps they just assumed it because they had owned some fast food restaurants. The Dermonds were elderly and assumed to be frail by the killers. The killers came by boat or car. Their intent was to kidnap SD for ransom. They entered the garage and secured SD somehow. RD heard a commotion and interrupted their plan. In the ruckus he was shot in the head. The killers panic and take his head to conceal evidence. They proceed with their kidnapping of SD, and take her somewhere else. Now they’re not sure what to do so heated discussions ensue on how to proceed. Eventually the killers decide to kill SD with a hammer-like object and dispose of her body in the lake, which they do. This scenario would explain why there is so much violence involving RD in the garage but nothing indicating SD was harmed there. It would also explained why their bodies were found in two different places. Just my opinion...today. Please point out any problems with it...kindly.

The biggest problem is the “by vehicle” part. Since it’s a gated community every vehicle that comes in either has a transponder (as a resident’s car would) or a visitor pass issued at the gate. Even if they transported them in their own car outside the community, that event would get recorded. That means it either happened entirely in their community or all transportation was done by boat.

 

[FreshEyes]

The biggest problem is the “by vehicle” part. Since it’s a gated community every vehicle that comes in either has a transponder (as a resident’s car would) or a visitor pass issued at the gate. Even if they transported them in their own car outside the community, that event would get recorded. That means it either happened entirely in their community or all transportation was done by boat.

I believe the Sheriff said that the security at the gate wasn't that tight. He said something like plumbers and others that did frequent work there had a sticker and didn't even bother to slow down; they just drove in.
So it could have been someone that did work for the residents like a handyman, landscaper, etc.
Maybe someone that had done work for the couple at some point.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

EXACTLY, ME EITHER! Do we think maybe it was intended that she be found!?

That map is awesome! I went over it pretty thoroughly and found that all areas of "flooded timber" which are on the opposite sides of the boat ramps (Long and Lawrence), east side had depths 10 feet or less and in most cases about 4 feet. Nowhere on the map in that area, even in the channel itself, around the Dam and 2 miles out is the water depth more than 30 feet. I have no idea what SS is talking about when he says she was found in 47 feet of water???

 

[jonnyrock]

I have held all along the unanswered question of exactly where the Dermonds were killed is crucial to the investigation yet remains elusive. Again I say no to the garage for the murder of RD; rather, it became the location for a post mortem beheading. Recall the tight quarters inside the garage: a Lincoln SUV and a Lexus SUV. Blood spatter would have clearly been detected apart from the non arterial blood leaking after post mortem beheading. Yes I believe the Dermonds were murdered offsite, possibly both in the boat. I also believe the killers had only one thing in mind the day of the murder, namely, murder. They came dressed to kill. I have to go along with SS in that the murderers made only one mistake: SD's body surfaced as it was never intended to be found. I totally agree a lot of this doesn't make sense, especially kill the couple offsite yet return to the residence to place RD in the garage and behead him. Not much of any of this macabre case makes sense, does it?

 

[Deleted member 162919]

The security gate at the time was just a camera and at the time of the murders the camera was not working . Since the murders security has changed probably due to complaints or a lawsuit. The cameras not working at the time of the murder is a key piece to this puzzle. I'm not a believer in the theory they were taken away from the house and murdered it's just too risky. How deep the water is doesn't mean much to me because if they didn't want her found the would have dumped her in the ocean and not a small lake they knew would be searched thoroughly. SS knows who did this now it's just a matter of time before someone cracks under pressure and spills the beans

JMHO

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

The security gate at the time was just a camera and at the time of the murders the camera was not working . Since the murders security has changed probably due to complaints or a lawsuit. The cameras not working at the time of the murder is a key piece to this puzzle. I'm not a believer in the theory they were taken away from the house and murdered it's just too risky. How deep the water is doesn't mean much to me because if they didn't want her found the would have dumped her in the ocean and not a small lake they knew would be searched thoroughly. SS knows who did this now it's just a matter of time before someone cracks under pressure and spills the beans

JMHO

I hope he does

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I have held all along the unanswered question of exactly where the Dermonds were killed is crucial to the investigation yet remains elusive. Again I say no to the garage for the murder of RD; rather, it became the location for a post mortem beheading. Recall the tight quarters inside the garage: a Lincoln SUV and a Lexus SUV. Blood spatter would have clearly been detected apart from the non arterial blood leaking after post mortem beheading. Yes I believe the Dermonds were murdered offsite, possibly both in the boat. I also believe the killers had only one thing in mind the day of the murder, namely, murder. They came dressed to kill. I have to go along with SS in that the murderers made only one mistake: SD's body surfaced as it was never intended to be found. I totally agree a lot of this doesn't make sense, especially kill the couple offsite yet return to the residence to place RD in the garage and behead him. Not much of any of this macabre case makes sense, does it?

Johnny Rock, or anyone, remember that there was Some blood spatter /splatter but not a huge amount? I remember this. It will have to find it, I thin metal also remember some lawn guys next door heard loud voices inside the home very early in the investigation.. the debate on here was if inside could mean the garage, it was climate controlled and thin metal door, so yes...

Does anyone remember this or have it saved?
Thanks

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Seems The struggle occurred at home when RD grabbed to save SD and got only hair, they left with her, not sure they left with RD

My thinking anyway

 

[wildebeest]

And isn't it odd that they used the towels from the bathroom located near the garage and never poked around in or took anything in the house?

Because they came there to kill the Dermonds, and the beheading was an afterthought, hence, they needed towels from the house.

IMHO

 

[wildebeest]

Hi guys! Sorry for the delay in the new episode. Tricia's camera with video footage got lost at the airport (We think by TSA) and Tricia was announced as the new host of the "Sword and Scale" podcast... so a lot going on, but we should have an episode up this week! Again, my apologies for the delay.

No worries, Levi. We aren’t going anywhere, so we will be here, anxiously awaiting the next podcast.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

darn phone......

take out thin metal in sentence about lawn guys next door LOL

Johnny Rock, or anyone, remember that there was Some blood spatter /splatter but not a huge amount? I remember this. It will have to find it, I thin metal also remember some lawn guys next door heard loud voices inside the home very early in the investigation.. the debate on here was if inside could mean the garage, it was climate controlled and thin metal door, so yes...

Does anyone remember this or have it saved?
Thanks

 

[FinePrint]

What is most frustrating is with the passing of time a lot of the links to news stories no longer work and it is so hard to go back to try to figure things out. I find that initial reporting, right after a crime has occurred gives so much insight. A lot of things are said just after a crime happens, that later no one talks about anymore and those little clues are lost with time.

 

[SeesSeas]

All the back and forth about where Shirley's body was found . . . I found these details in older news articles:
near Wallace Dam in Lake Oconee
near the Long Shoals boat ramp on the Greene County Line
hung up in the tree line
in 46 feet of water
in a wide bend above the Wallace Dam
some five miles from her home

Evidence elusive, but theories narrow in Eatonton murder investigation
Updated May 17, 2014
But the discovery of Shirley Dermond’s body Friday near Wallace Dam in Lake Oconee — 11 days after her 88-year-old husband’s decapitated body was found in the garage of the couple’s home inside Reynolds Plantation — has brought some clarity to investigators desperate for leads.

“Now we know whoever did this came by boat,” Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution Saturday.

Shirley Dermond’s body was discovered Friday by two fishermen near the Long Shoals boat ramp on the Greene County Line. The 87-year-old mother of three and grandmother of nine was hung up in the tree line, though it seems apparent she wasn’t meant to be found, unlike her husband.

New details as mystery reigns in year-old Dermond lake murders
UPDATED MAY 03, 2015 02:17 PM
Sills said Shirley Dermond was struck more than once and was dead when she was dropped in the lake. Her body was found floating by fishermen on May 16.

Weighed down by a pair of 30-pound concrete blocks, her corpse bloated and surfaced facedown in 46 feet of water. By boat, the spot lies some five miles from her home, in a wide bend above the Wallace Dam.

“I still think they came by car, but there is no question whatsoever that Mrs. Dermond’s body was, in my opinion, disposed of by boat,” Sills said. “They could have come by boat.”

 

[FinePrint]

In WS podcast, I think it was #1. The 911 call is played of the fisherman who discovered SD body says, not verbatim... We were going out fishing leaving Long Shoals ramp heading toward the Dam and saw what looks like a body near Rock Island, off to the left, caught up in a tree.....So is rock island that peninsula that jets out with the large boulders I see in pictures that people are jumping off of into the water??? Or is Rock Island some local name for one of those tiny little islands seen on maps of Lake Oconee not far from Dam?? Anyone locally know what "Rock Island" is?