GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #12

[deugirtni]

Like I said a long time ago SS knows who did this. He stated in the latest podcast he does have 1 or 2 suspects and a cop as I said before always has a suspect or he isn't a good cop. SS doesn't believe they were killed in the house which tells me he knows where they were killed. He just wants someone to connect the dots and lead him to the evidence he already has.

For me, it is scary when someone says the cops know who did a given crime, without having enough evidence to actually 'know' (ie by having enough to take it to court), because that can tend to lead to tunnel-vision... and if it so happens that said cops might be mistaken, they could be wasting years just waiting for a break to confirm their suspicions, rather than proactively looking under every stone, so to speak.

 

[deugirtni]

I think they were probably killed outside of home- then RD brought back inside. Apparently there was no blood anywhere (tested with luminal) except some where RD was laying. I don’t see how both murders could have been committed inside without signs of blood and a struggle.

Re: the no food in stomachs- seems to me that indicates morning. They would have food in stomachs if at night. IMO

Apparently there was a lot of blood, so much that the killers had to gather towels to prevent it from seeping out of the garage door and onto the driveway. Say someone was shot in the head, but the bullet lodged in the brain/skull. There may not be blood going everywhere, but perhaps seeping out of the mouth/nose/whatever..... if that blood became intermingled with the decapitation blood, would forensics be able to tell? And say they had tons of blood from the decapitation... could they have tested *all* of it, to see if *any* of it may have been from SD? Or if *any* of it may have included other liquids? Say there was some oozing of brain fluid or something, but it was only a bit, in one small area, and then covered with a pool of blood from the later decapitation - I'm not sure the lab could test every bit of what was found there? Obviously I'm not sure how that works either, but just wondering!

 

[Levi]

Does Sills have a detective section that is actually handling the case or is he doing everything by himself?

He mentioned one detective that was assigned the case that had retired not long ago.

 

[FinePrint]

So glad you are here, FinePrint. We need all the help we can get to find justice for this couple.

Thank you so much for the welcome. I hope I can help!

 

[FinePrint]

I have a theory, and agian sorry if someone has already thought of this.

There is a lot of discussion about where RD was actually killed, in the garage or elsewhere. SS states he believes it happened elsewhere and the body was returned to the garage where then his head was removed. If SS based this theory on the lack of a round or blood spatter found in the garage there maybe another explanation.

We know the killer or killers were prepared enough to bring along rope, cinder blocks, mesh bag and so on. This all appears to be well orchestrated.

Could the killer have placed some kind of bag or hood over RD head prior to killing him? Could bags or hoods have been placed over both SD and RD heads?

If bags or hoods had been placed on their heads would this not have contained any blood spatter from a strike to the head with a hammer or gun shot. This would also aide in transporting RD head without leaving a blood trail.

Sorry to be so graphic but there is no other way to describe this. Just a thought....

 

[jonnyrock]

I keep revisiting the only crime scene not on the property and a mobile one at that: the boat. I think it highly likely SD was bludgeoned on the boat, making disposal of her dead body a foregone conclusion. What about RD? Head trauma leaves a trail of blood and spatter, none of which was found in the very tight quarters of the garage (notwithstanding the post mortem pool of blood following decapitation). Could RD also have been murdered on the boat? I know it sounds ridiculous - - murder him on the boat and at some point drag his body into the garage. Perhaps that's what the towels were for initially, to wrap around his head whilst dragging the body to the garage. Recall, no one has been able to say with any certainty where the murders of SD and RD took place. Clearly we know the post mortem fate of each Dermond but that does not answer where the murders occurred. The home, including the attached garage, the surrounding yard, the dock were all free of any residual forensic evidence of blood or blood spatter. I firmly believe that to have been deliberate as the murderers went to great length to leave behind as little evidence as possible.

 

[jonnyrock]

I have always believed the Dermonds were murdered well outside the home. Why they returned RD’s body to the garage is just another example of the bizarre, convoluted and wholly incredible manner of murder most foul.

 

[jonnyrock]

..... I recall a lot of time was spent investigating the area in and around the dock.

 

[TJtennispro]

Her body was discovered by the dam near that Lawrence Shoals Boat Ramp. You can’t acesss where the body was dropped by land only by boat.

Also just an FYI plenty of the blue collar looking lake houses are owned by families that have more money than the Dermonds.

My friends that I frequently go to looks blue collar but it’s directly across the lake from RP Ritz Carlton. They’ve got a beach house, game day condo in Athens, house in Atlanta and the lake house.


Their kids have 3 million dollar trust funds. Looks can be deceiving until you know all the info.

I'd like to know SS's full reasoning for coming to that belief. It seemed to me that it was only because he saw no evidence to indicate gun shot wound(s) to the head, or blunt force injury, via blood spatter at the home, or whatever. But yet according to the autopsy report there was no mention of GSR being found.

If there was a small bit on Mr.D's shirt, it could have been from taking a shot himself at some point (wild rodent or something?, perhaps not during that particular day even), or even 'transfer' from the killer's hands or clothing, and nothing to do with this particular crime. I haven't heard whether the Ds owned a gun(s) or not, and if so, if it/they had all been accounted for? It doesn't make any sense to take someone and then bring them back to decapitate them. Not that this murder makes any sense to begin with, but that seems really out there, to lug him back to his garage, already deceased, only to then decapitate, exposing themselves to more risk of getting caught.

When they discovered Mrs.D's body in the lake, did they do any research on where it is believed she would have originally been sunk? ie going by the motion of the water, in relation to weather/wind conditions during the 10 days until she was found, etc? It would have been useful to have an idea where she had been dropped into the water, and then perhaps to have searched/dredged that surrounding area to see if Mr.D's head might be at the bottom attached to yet another concrete block?

 

[FinePrint]

I spent a good part of the day re watching and reading SS interviews. In many of the interviews he says that he is sure the Ds knew their killer(s) and he has physical evidence to back it up but will not say what that physical evidence is.

I can’t imagine what that physical evidence could be other than the fact that there is no evidence of the House being broke into, door was unlocked and alarm was disarmed. What else could there be?

I think it is only logical to believe that SD is the one who opened the door and let the killer(s) in as she was the only one of the two properly dressed. I also believe it was very early Saturday morning before either had eaten breakfast.

Who would you open the door for early on a Saturday morning knowing your other half is not yet dressed for the day?

I would only open the door for:

Mail person
UPS
neighbor that I only knew well
Family members
Kids selling something like Girl Scout cookies
Someone working on a project on the property
Community security guard
Police

 

[FinePrint]

Another thing that caught my attention was that SS said in an interview done by a local reporter and friend that he did not know the Ds, that police had never been called to their house except for one time the Ds had LE come to the house because someone called their home phone with some kind of a scam.

He did not go into any further detail and did not mention when that happened. I’ll try to go back this week and find that interview and post it.

Just find it interesting that this call concerned the Ds so much that they called LE

 

[kay74]

I wonder if they used K9s to search for blood, or a trail of someone who didn't belong?

The blood could have been in their yard! If they beheaded RD there.

 

[deugirtni]

Her body was discovered by the dam near that Lawrence Shoals Boat Ramp. You can’t acesss where the body was dropped by land only by boat.

But how do we know that where SD's body was discovered, was also where she had originally been dumped some 10 days earlier?

 

[deugirtni]

The blood could have been in their yard! If they beheaded RD there.

I believe, from the blood present in the garage, that they beheaded him in the garage, however, if SS believed the couple were not killed inside the home, then hopefully he had scent-dogs out in the yard to see if they could find any evidence of it happening out there.

 

[deugirtni]

I spent a good part of the day re watching and reading SS interviews. In many of the interviews he says that he is sure the Ds knew their killer(s) and he has physical evidence to back it up but will not say what that physical evidence is.

I can’t imagine what that physical evidence could be other than the fact that there is no evidence of the House being broke into, door was unlocked and alarm was disarmed. What else could there be?

I think it is only logical to believe that SD is the one who opened the door and let the killer(s) in as she was the only one of the two properly dressed. I also believe it was very early Saturday morning before either had eaten breakfast.

Who would you open the door for early on a Saturday morning knowing your other half is not yet dressed for the day?

I would only open the door for:

Mail person
UPS
neighbor that I only knew well
Family members
Kids selling something like Girl Scout cookies
Someone working on a project on the property
Community security guard
Police

And with this being a 'gated community', would selling door-to-door even be allowed (even if it was a child)?

I find it interesting that if SS is sure the Ds knew their killers, that he would be following other beheadings.. I think if someone known to the Ds, that it was an act of vengeance, and it would be doubtful they'd be traveling the country doing it to others, ie serial killing?

 

[watcher9]

The blood could have been in their yard! If they beheaded RD there.

Way back when, this was discussed especially after learning about the guy in the yard, that maybe he was washing the blood away.
Wasn't that guy seen Sat afternoon? Does anyone remember? SS says he was innocent. Maybe he was just a red herring?
But if the murders did happen early Sat, then maybe someone else was there earlier washing the blood away and was never seen?

 

[watcher9]

And with this being a 'gated community', would selling door-to-door even be allowed (even if it was a child)?

I find it interesting that if SS is sure the Ds knew their killers, that he would be following other beheadings.. I think if someone known to the Ds, that it was an act of vengeance, and it would be doubtful they'd be traveling the country doing it to others, ie serial killing?

I think SS was following other cases of violent home invasion. He even traveled to some of the locations if I remember right.

 

[Deleted member 162919]

So we are to assume the killers arrived at the house and took the Dermonds to another location and murdered them at that location , brought Both back to the Dermonds house where they beheaded Mr. Dermond who was already dead, Brought Mrs Dermond on the boat and dumped her 5 miles away from their house and did this without being seen or heard we assume she was dead before she was put on the boat and killed outside of their house.

We are also to assume this could be about someone extorting the Dermonds. Well if someone went there to extort them they sure planned on getting nothing. Anyone who would extort someone is going to do their homework and they would have found out there wasn't much available money since most of it was tied up in investments. They didn't take anything of expense from the home so that eliminates robbery. Lets eliminate those 2 extortion and robbery

Next up - why would someone do this to a couple in their late 80's and who have been retired for many years?
Someone who held a grudge? very possible something could have made them or a family member snap. Maybe a family member passed away and this was seen as getting justice. Think a person who was once possibly fired by Mr Dermond or something like that. Beheading is rage or revenge.

My point is nobody would plan something this way , unless they got exactly what they wanted ( the Dermonds dead) . Now the question is who would want them dead?

 

[Tripod]

I wonder if there has ever been another set of experienced, professional, unbiased eyes taking a look at this whole case. Someone else enquired if there were other detectives aside from SS himself (I believe there were, because the autopsy reports indicate other detective names). In a larger city's police service, staff tend to get moved around/promoted/etc, and other sets of eyes end up taking over unsolved cases, etc., giving the opportunity for a fresh perspective. It scares me to think it might be possible that because this is such a small place, and the top dog is the guy with all the information and his position is permanent, and he has refused offers of outside assistance, only one set of eyes may be privy to all of the evidence. What if he missed something? Not to put SS down or anything, not saying this because of anything to do with him in particular, but when something is super important and also remains unsolved for so long, if it were me, I know I would appreciate another set of eyes.

I've just been skimming the thread backwards, so forgive me if this has already been answered. SS did bring in a "cold case" squad of good retired detectives some time ago, to have a look at the Dermond case. I seem to recall they came from Florida, but the particulars I can't remember. I know it was posted from MSM here on this thread at the time, but I can't tell you specifically how far back or where.

 

[wary]

And with this being a 'gated community', would selling door-to-door even be allowed (even if it was a child)?

I find it interesting that if SS is sure the Ds knew their killers, that he would be following other beheadings.. I think if someone known to the Ds, that it was an act of vengeance, and it would be doubtful they'd be traveling the country doing it to others, ie serial killing?

So, maybe even though SS is sure of things, he’s still checking out other possibilities—and doesn’t have that tunnel vision that people worried about,