GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #12

[FairM1]

@Tricia and @Levi ,

I wanted to ask whether they had a cleaner and if so whether they were questioned? Did they do a walk through of the house with the cleaner to see if anything was missing? It would seem odd that that they didn't have a cleaner especially with such a large house and both being in their late 80s, I don't see how they could have kept it so spotless as it was described.

An intriguing part of your podcast was the Sheriff episode , when he said he had some suspects in mind that gave me goosebumps.

Is there a link to the full transcript of the 911 call?

My own view is that this was a revenge killing, I think the killers arrived by car and were known to the victims, JMO

 

[FairM1]

So we are to assume the killers arrived at the house and took the Dermonds to another location and murdered them at that location , brought Both back to the Dermonds house where they beheaded Mr. Dermond who was already dead, Brought Mrs Dermond on the boat and dumped her 5 miles away from their house and did this without being seen or heard we assume she was dead before she was put on the boat and killed outside of their house.

We are also to assume this could be about someone extorting the Dermonds. Well if someone went there to extort them they sure planned on getting nothing. Anyone who would extort someone is going to do their homework and they would have found out there wasn't much available money since most of it was tied up in investments. They didn't take anything of expense from the home so that eliminates robbery. Lets eliminate those 2 extortion and robbery

Next up - why would someone do this to a couple in their late 80's and who have been retired for many years?
Someone who held a grudge? very possible something could have made them or a family member snap. Maybe a family member passed away and this was seen as getting justice. Think a person who was once possibly fired by Mr Dermond or something like that. Beheading is rage or revenge.

My point is nobody would plan something this way , unless they got exactly what they wanted ( the Dermonds dead) . Now the question is who would want them dead?

That took a huge risk to return to the crime scene and then carry out the beheading there , risking being caught in the act a second time, presumably if they did come back it was in the dead of night.

I agree on the rage/revenge and a disgruntled employee is plausible, although it seems less likely given how long they had been retired.

 

[FairM1]

Way back when, this was discussed especially after learning about the guy in the yard, that maybe he was washing the blood away.
Wasn't that guy seen Sat afternoon? Does anyone remember? SS says he was innocent. Maybe he was just a red herring?
But if the murders did happen early Sat, then maybe someone else was there earlier washing the blood away and was never seen?

If it was the killer then he had no worries about being seen or caught in the act? that suggests someone who is mentally ill?

 

[FairM1]

Thanks for listening and giving us a chance! I hope the episode wasn't too long. I didn't want to go over an hour, but so many of the guests made such good points, it was hard to edit everything down to an hour.

I liked the episode lengths, I get frustrated with the shorter podcasts out there some are even 15 minutes long! yours are just right IMO

 

[FairM1]

found this a few years ago and it's similar to what happened to the D's

http://wavenewspapers.com/inglewood-homicide-baffles-investigators/

oh my goodness! this is so similar! did they ever find who did this? ,

 

[Levi]

I've just been skimming the thread backwards, so forgive me if this has already been answered. SS did bring in a "cold case" squad of good retired detectives some time ago, to have a look at the Dermond case. I seem to recall they came from Florida, but the particulars I can't remember. I know it was posted from MSM here on this thread at the time, but I can't tell you specifically how far back or where.

He told me and Tricia it was a cold case squad from the Jacksonville, FL police department, the person in charge was his former roommate at the FBI academy.

 

[Levi]

If it was the killer then he had no worries about being seen or caught in the act? that suggests someone who is mentally ill?

Would someone that is mentally ill and not worried about being caught decapitate someone, so the bullet could not be found? Would they try to block the blood from running out into the driveway?

I think if it was someone mentally ill they took the head for some perverted psycho reason and not just to cover their tracks. But trying to keep the blood from running out of the garage indicates the killer or killers wanted to keep people from finding out there was a dead body in their as long as possible and not try to draw attention to the scene.

 

[Levi]

Levi, are you allowed to divulge any of your ideas about this crime? Since you have visited the scene, you must have some ideas. Thank you!

I think it's possible that the killer or killers could have visited the home via boat on the Lake and staked out the Dermond's home to get a feel for the area (assuming the killer was not a close neighbor). Maybe be out on the Lake to see when there is not a lot of activity on the Lake, to see when neighbors are not active outside, to get a feel for the Dermond's and their schedule, to see what time is best to "strike." We were in a boat and were really close to the docks at the homes and did not draw any attention. It would have been real easy for someone to pull up to someones dock and walk right up to their home. It gives me chills thinking about someone lying in wait or planning the perfect time to do this...

It was actually really quiet on the Lake while we were there and the homes were really quiet. I didn't see people outside, no kids playing, no pets barking or stirring around or anything. It was February, late afternoon, but it was still a nice day outside.

When I think about the Lake and how "vulnerable" people are to random people having access to their property... I know if I lived there, I'd want a big guard dog. I've had German Shepherds and they would have gone nuts if someone in a boat was as close to the homes as we were. I bet there is a HOA regulations about barking dogs though. But I would feel safer with one, especially after studying this case. LOL

I need to visit again when it is warmer.

 

[FairM1]

Would someone that is mentally ill and not worried about being caught decapitate someone, so the bullet could not be found? Would they try to block the blood from running out into the driveway?

I think if it was someone mentally ill they took the head for some perverted psycho reason and not just to cover their tracks. But trying to keep the blood from running out of the garage indicates the killer or killers wanted to keep people from finding out there was a dead body in their as long as possible and not try to draw attention to the scene.

Thanks for the reply, what doesn't fit with that is the "guy" supposedly walking around their garden in broad day light as seen by the neighbour, why would some one go to the trouble of trying to block blood from running on the driveway and then go walk around the garden risking being seen?

we don't know that was the reason the head was taken, it's a theory but no fact to back it up. If they were worried about a bullet being traced to them , why take a gun in the first place? very risky if they knew it could be traced back to them imo

also did you see my post about whether they had a cleaner? and whether the cleaner did a walk through of the house to see if anything was missing? thanks

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Unfortunately, many murder cases have involved decapitations over the years.

Some the victims didn't know the suspects, and some they did. Many remain unsolved like this case.

There simply is no way to know why they do the things they do, whether they knew the victims or didnt know them whatsoever.

Among all murderers there are those who are depraved, and evil which seems to enjoy gruesome ways to abuse the corpses.

One case I remember was about a serial killer who always took the decapitated head with him. He put it on his own window sill with the front of the skull facing outward. He took it as a trophy remembrance of his kill.

I'm not sure this will ever be solved because strangers have been known to do these type of gruesome decapitations as well, and they are the hardest cases of all to solve.

Every murderer, whether they are strangers or not will do thing to prevent them from being caught, and the bodies discovered quickly.


Imo

 

[FinePrint]

I don’t think the head was taken to cover up evidence. I think the decapitation was planned and it was either done to terrorize SD or for some type of proof.

I think RD was probably hit in the head with a hammer or something similar like SD and not shot. If there was GSR found on RD shirt it was probably from contact with a gun (that was previously shot) the killer used to have control over the Ds If the killers were let in the house they would have to have something like a gun to make the Ds conform to demands such as getting them into the garage.

I think RD was killed and decapited in the garage and SD was taken out on the lake along with RD head to further terrorize her for whatever reason and when they were not able to get what they wanted from her or they were just done terrorizing her they killed her and dumped both her and RD head in the lake.

I would like to know if RD owned a gun, anyone know?

 

[deugirtni]

Way back when, this was discussed especially after learning about the guy in the yard, that maybe he was washing the blood away.
Wasn't that guy seen Sat afternoon? Does anyone remember? SS says he was innocent. Maybe he was just a red herring?
But if the murders did happen early Sat, then maybe someone else was there earlier washing the blood away and was never seen?

Yes I believe it was on the Saturday that this stranger was seen in their yard. I wonder why not many details about this, other than although no identifying features were seen, the person who witnessed this stranger seems sure it was a male.

 

[deugirtni]

I think SS was following other cases of violent home invasion. He even traveled to some of the locations if I remember right.

That's excellent that SS is looking into every possibility. I've never heard of a home invasion done just for the fun of it though, with everything remaining pristine, no mess, no sign of struggle, no theft, no forced entry, but yet a decapitation and a boat ride to dispose of a body.

 

[deugirtni]

... Beheading is rage or revenge.

My point is nobody would plan something this way , unless they got exactly what they wanted ( the Dermonds dead) . Now the question is who would want them dead?

RSBM
Beheading, I suppose, could also be trying to hide something about the head.. SS suggests perhaps because it was a shooting? What if it was a complete pulverization .. or stabbed or pummeled so many times that it would give away the complete anger of the murderer, giving away that this was very much a 'personal' vendetta? Or couldn't a beheading also perhaps be seen as someone giving/showing 'proof' to perhaps another person who hired a hit?

But yes, the question is who would want/need them dead, and why?

 

[OTPTarheel2018]

If it was the killer then he had no worries about being seen or caught in the act? that suggests someone who is mentally ill?

To me that suggests a killer who thinks he/she is smarter than everyone else.
Narcissist.

JMO, not a psychologist/psychiatrist and I don't play one on tv

 

[deugirtni]

Was thinking..... that *if* the killer removed the head to hide evidence.. it could potentially be because (IF RD was shot) if the bullet lodged inside the skull and did not exit, AND the same gun had been used in a different murder.. potentially the discovery of the bullet could have been matched and associated, which would potentially give away more information about the killer. But then... it just doesn't make any sense at all to me that RD would be shot, while SD would be bashed with a hammer type of tool. Seems unlikely, imo, that the two would be murdered in different ways, but that is jmo.

 

[deugirtni]

If it was the killer then he had no worries about being seen or caught in the act? that suggests someone who is mentally ill?

To me that suggests a killer who thinks he/she is smarter than everyone else.
Narcissist.

JMO, not a psychologist/psychiatrist and I don't play one on tv

To me, it would go without saying, that someone who would decapitate another human would *have* to be mentally ill, but that is just me and my opinion. But not the mentally ill kind of mentally ill that would get the killer off on an insanity plea, more the evil kind of mentally ill.. cold, calculating, no respect for others or human life, concerned about only himself, etc.

 

[FinePrint]

Still, if the Ds did open the door to the killer on Saturday morning, which it seems we all agree it was on Saturday morning, who would they open the door for?

Was the alarm disarmed in order to open the door for this person or persons?

Could the Ds; being from an older generation, living in a gated community be so trusting that they would open the door to anyone?

If the Ds were so concerned about a scam phone call that they called LE wouldn’t that make one believe they were pretty vigilant and concerned for their safety?

The fact alone that they had a security system that they used makes me think that they were safety conscious?

Who would they disarm the alarm for and open the door for?

The only other way around this whole senerio would be if one of the Ds disarmed the alarm, unlocked the door in order to go out to get the paper in the driveway and were grabbed outside.

A lot of thinking out loud here on my part...

This is why I believe it is so important for people who knew the Ds to come forward and give some details about the Ds.

It would be helpful to know their daily habits such as when did they usually wake up, did they go out early to get the paper, did they stay up late at night or did they go to bed early?

I think it would be benifcial to make a list of what we do know about the Ds.

 

[Deleted member 162919]

I don't believe the reason for the beheading was a bullet because you'd also need the gun and someone who went to the extent they obviously did in planning this probably would use a gun that couldn't be connected to them

 

[deugirtni]

I don't believe the reason for the beheading was a bullet because you'd also need the gun and someone who went to the extent they obviously did in planning this probably would use a gun that couldn't be connected to them

This doesn't make sense.. but.. if the gun was found EVER in the future, and/or associated with a different crime, couldn't it always then be traced back to involving this crime also? Obviously if it was a gun, LE did not have it in their possession at the time, so something like that would require massive thinking ahead to future possibilities.
I suppose that a future gun ceased in some other crime in perhaps some other state, would never be bothered to be compared to a bullet found in a head if a murder victim in GA? However... say at some future point in time, LE confiscates a gun from someone *close* to the Ds, then *that* gun would for sure be able to be matched up, or not.
So wouldn't it indicate then that if Mr.D was indeed shot, and the head taken for the reason SS thinks it was, it is suggestive of someone close? But yet SS seems to have cleared the family members.