GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 5

[Xara]

I am still here.....just lurking as I don't have anything relevant to add. I still don't even have a viable theory or motive to share.

This is all so confusing and mysterious.

Hopefully Sheriff Sills will talk to the press tomorrow with a update on how the case is progressing.

 

[Eileen730]

Still new here, what does BBM mean? I don't know how to copy and paste on here yet, either, but just wanted to add that I can't get with the hit man theory, either, only because I think it would have been so much more efficiently done, in and out. If it's not done for financial gain, or something sexual, then someone just lost it when they were confronted. I don't think it was someone very young, either. I like the post that said someone was maybe just partying too loud, doing drugs/alcohol. Maybe a neighbor's son had a friend down for the weekend? It was a Friday night and . I kind of think it was just before dark, or soon after, and it was unusually quiet, meaning most local fishermen and/or families had gone home. Also like Hickory Born's note that the average person wouldn't know how to cover up. That's why I think after they were hit in the head, they just drug Mr. D up to the garage to put him out of view, then since she was already in the water (knocked off the dock?), they were just able to leave. So hoping tomorrow brings news.

Means Bolded By Me!

 

[Eileen730]

Still new here, what does BBM mean? I don't know how to copy and paste on here yet, either, but just wanted to add that I can't get with the hit man theory, either, only because I think it would have been so much more efficiently done, in and out. If it's not done for financial gain, or something sexual, then someone just lost it when they were confronted. I don't think it was someone very young, either. I like the post that said someone was maybe just partying too loud, doing drugs/alcohol. Maybe a neighbor's son had a friend down for the weekend? It was a Friday night and . I kind of think it was just before dark, or soon after, and it was unusually quiet, meaning most local fishermen and/or families had gone home. Also like Hickory Born's note that the average person wouldn't know how to cover up. That's why I think after they were hit in the head, they just drug Mr. D up to the garage to put him out of view, then since she was already in the water (knocked off the dock?), they were just able to leave. So hoping tomorrow brings news.

See these gated communities have security riding around or a neighborhood watch group that patrols from dusk to dawn!

 

[mck16]

Snipped for focus:



mck16
Yes, physical altercation at dock is possible, but how does it start?

If some boating partiers made noise at the dock, what would MrD do?
-walk from house toward the dock? Tell them, we'd appreciate it if you left?
-shout from house, maybe screened in porch, get the hell out of here?
- w gun or sharp weapon in hand, approach them at dock?
- announce from house he has a gun?
- call 911?
- call G/W security?
- flip floodlight switch to throw light on/toward dock & boaters?
- something else?

Just wondering how he would react.:seeya:

I have bolded what I think he could have done. I would do these things if it were me. Except approach them. I would not do that or threaten with the gun. But, sometimes I get so mad at the lack of respect shown by young people. jmo

 

[J Block]

I haven't posted on this case, but I've been following it fairly close. I'm slightly familiar w/ the NC as well as other cult/gang factions due to being from the Tri-State area. I've spent some time working Vice and Security Threat Group (gang unit) before moving on to the Major Crimes Div.

Strictly MOO. I have, from the onset, always thought this is an Israel Keyes type killer(s). This is mostly gut, but also a little bit of an experience viewpoint. Sometimes I/we get caught up in trying to theorize/investigate very specific details while straying from the big picture. Occasionally this can lead us to spending too much time going down the wrong path. IMO, I don't see the decapitation as being a significant indicator in the "who dunnit". Again, this is strictly MOO, and it stems from my belief that this was not "personal", but more "random". "Random", in the sense that it was a "kill to kill" crime.

I believe the person(s) have done it before, had a fairly calculated plan, spent enough time learning the area and the Dermond's & their patterns. I'm not completely certain if it was 1 or 2 individuals. MO is it was 1, but if a 2nd was involved, they weren't a very "active" participant. MO is that they were eyes/ears, surveillance, muscle, clean-up, etc. I'd also say the person(s) live/work in LO, or are a friend/relative of one. Or was previously.

BTW, I'm a huge fan of Sills. Educated, experienced, hard-nosed and old school while current at the same time.

You guys/gals have some great discussion going on.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Happyshoes]

J Block: what makes you think they (or he) had done it before? And what were they hoping to get or steal if they had been casing the house/family beforehand? If not for money, would someone have disliked them enough to sit around and stew about this until they saw the chance to go kill them? Thanks for posting. I love the free thinking that goes on here.

 

[mck16]

J Block: what makes you think they (or he) had done it before? And what were they hoping to get or steal if they had been casing the house/family beforehand? If not for money, would someone have disliked them enough to sit around and stew about this until they saw the chance to go kill them? Thanks for posting. I love the free thinking that goes on here.

Good questions and I also wonder why the house wasn't broken into or anything stolen. jmo

 

[Happyshoes]

Yeah, Mck16 - what was the whole purpose if not just to tell the old man to shut up??
ps..If I am doing anything wrong on here, someone please let me know. So far, I have only used quick reply. Not the queen of computers here, haha. Also, just want to say to whoever it was that said they had a 80 year old neighbor that raised his flag every morning and if you didn't see it, you went to check on him. That warmed my heart!

 

[Eileen730]

Good questions and I also wonder why the house wasn't broken into or anything stolen. jmo

Maybe because their alarm was on.

MY thinking is Mr and Mrs D went out and were followed home,
Mr D wouldn't turn off the alarm.
Neither would Mrs D.

 

[Eileen730]

Yeah, Mck16 - what was the whole purpose if not just to tell the old man to shut up??
ps..If I am doing anything wrong on here, someone please let me know. So far, I have only used quick reply. Not the queen of computers here, haha. Also, just want to say to whoever it was that said they had a 80 year old neighbor that raised his flag every morning and if you didn't see it, you went to check on him. That warmed my heart!

:seeya: that was me! LOL I check on them even when the flag is out!

But if that flag is not up something is wrong!

 

[mck16]

Maybe because their alarm was on.

MY thinking is Mr and Mrs D went out and were followed home,
Mr D wouldn't turn off the alarm.
Neither would Mrs D.

It could have been early and the alarm not set yet. Or if Mr. D. went outside to run off the intruders at the dock, he would have unset the alarm. Also just jumped into my mind, if the alarm was set how did the neighbors go in to check on them or how did the LE get in? So, many questions. :banghead::banghead:

 

[Hickory Born]

I haven't posted on this case, but I've been following it fairly close. I'm slightly familiar w/ the NC as well as other cult/gang factions due to being from the Tri-State area. I've spent some time working Vice and Security Threat Group (gang unit) before moving on to the Major Crimes Div.

Strictly MOO. I have, from the onset, always thought this is an Israel Keyes type killer(s). This is mostly gut, but also a little bit of an experience viewpoint. Sometimes I/we get caught up in trying to theorize/investigate very specific details while straying from the big picture. Occasionally this can lead us to spending too much time going down the wrong path. IMO, I don't see the decapitation as being a significant indicator in the "who dunnit". Again, this is strictly MOO, and it stems from my belief that this was not "personal", but more "random". "Random", in the sense that it was a "kill to kill" crime.

I believe the person(s) have done it before, had a fairly calculated plan, spent enough time learning the area and the Dermond's & their patterns. I'm not completely certain if it was 1 or 2 individuals. MO is it was 1, but if a 2nd was involved, they weren't a very "active" participant. MO is that they were eyes/ears, surveillance, muscle, clean-up, etc. I'd also say the person(s) live/work in LO, or are a friend/relative of one. Or was previously.

BTW, I'm a huge fan of Sills. Educated, experienced, hard-nosed and old school while current at the same time.

You guys/gals have some great discussion going on.

Thanks for reading.

Do you think the person (s) has left the Lake Oconee area?

IMO it is a pity that Israel Keyes committed suicide, many of us want to know the psychological reasons of why.

 

[J Block]

J Block: what makes you think they (or he) had done it before? And what were they hoping to get or steal if they had been casing the house/family beforehand? If not for money, would someone have disliked them enough to sit around and stew about this until they saw the chance to go kill them? Thanks for posting. I love the free thinking that goes on here.

As I mentioned, IMO this was a "kill to kill". So they weren't looking to obtain anything physical. That said, I think this was most likely the work of an SK. From what we've been told, this was an intricate crime. That's why I think it's an SK who's had experience killing before.

 

[OTPTarheel]

What if a professional hit man was hired, but got the wrong house?

That's been my #2 theory since the beginning.
And as I was sitting in traffic today...I asked myself "is there a 174 Carolyn Drive"? Dyslexic murderer?

 

[Razz]

All you need to know is that money laundering involves crime syndicates usually-to put it mildly.

Add in all major crimes against persons and you get the picture.

Not only that, but check out the businesses used in these "transactions"

 

[J Block]

Do you think the person (s) has left the Lake Oconee area?

IMO it is a pity that Israel Keyes committed suicide, many of us want to know the psychological reasons of why.

If the person(s) is a resident of LO, I think they're sticking around as to not draw attention to being someone who's left the area after committing a crime.

Yes. We could've learned a lot from IK. Both psychologically as well as identifying more of his victims.

 

[JaimeSommers]

I keep going back to the fact that nothing was taken -- no money, no property, no medication, no nothing. So, how exactly would murdering the Dermonds be of benefit to someone? What does removing the Dermonds open the door to? The only things that I can think of are (1) inheritance, (2) business opportunity, (3) perceived relief from pent-up pain or anger.

This is not a thrill kill to me. It was not rushed. Time and care were taken to leave the house in order and to remove Mrs. D's body and Mr.D's head from the scene.

What was the benefit? It seems that immediate access to money wasn't needed, or valuables would be missing. Immediate access to drugs wasn't needed. Immediate access to a car wasn't needed. Whatever the benefit, it wasn't immediate to the killer(s).

IMO.

 

[Happyshoes]

As I mentioned, IMO this was a "kill to kill". So they weren't looking to obtain anything physical. That said, I think this was most likely the work of an SK. From what we've been told, this was an intricate crime. That's why I think it's an SK who's had experience killing before.

A SK who is also a fisherman, familiar with that lake, going to the only house at the end of the cul-de-sac (sort of), to take out somebody randomly? I'm confused (esp since I don't know the terminology "kill to kill"). Does that mean kill somebody - or a targeted somebody - just because he could? I also think it was one person; the other would have possibly freaked out by now. I'm curious why you think this person had done this before, and what makes it intricate? Somebody hated the D's and said "This Friday I am going over there and show them....??"

 

[fred&edna]

I've always felt that the initial attack occurred on the Dermond property due to the fact the house was shielded by trees. However, just looking on google maps (and photos of homes for sale in the area), it would seem that someone across the lake might possibly have a view of the Dermond home and/or the dock during winter months when vegetation isn't quite as lush.

Even what I assume is the "office" for Lake Oconee Vacational Rentals located at 161 Lanatchi Lane appears to be directly across the lake. Maybe there are homes on Wildwood, Island View Lane, Cape View Lane, etc with a view of the Dermonds' property.


https://maps.google.com/maps?q=161+...=us&ei=e4eLU67tGs6Dqga4noDIBQ&ved=0CCUQ8gEwAA

http://www.tiffrealestate.com/

 

[Happyshoes]

I keep going back to the fact that nothing was taken -- no money, no property, no medication, no nothing. So, how exactly would murdering the Dermonds be of benefit to someone? What does removing the Dermonds open the door to? The only things that I can think of are (1) inheritance, (2) business opportunity, (3) perceived relief from pent-up pain or anger.

This is not a thrill kill to me. It was not rushed. Time and care were taken to leave the house in order and to remove Mrs. D's body and Mr.D's head from the scene.

What was the benefit? It seems that immediate access to money wasn't needed, or valuables would be missing. Immediate access to drugs wasn't needed. Immediate access to a car wasn't needed. Whatever the benefit, it wasn't immediate to the killer(s).

IMO.

Hope I'm doing this right but I'm with you on that there was no benefit. I think the reason it seems not rushed is because it didn't take long for them to kill them both, and I even think they didn't go in the house at all. It's hard for me to imagine them being targeted, so I am still leaning toward the confrontation. And most likely on the dock. Does anyone know if Mr. D was hit in the head and decapitated out in the yard? Were there drag marks of his body to the garage?