GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 6

[lakeoconee]

BBM

Why do they not expect it to be solved?

I should have said they fear it won't be solved.

 

[StellaG]

In Georgia, I think I had to give a thumbprint for my DL...but if you are not in government job/bonded/financial/jail/prison/to get a carry permit.... who else has their prints on file as a regular SOP for their position?

TIA

In NC all attorneys are fingerprinted. And I once worked for a company that ran hotels and all the officers had to be fingerprinted for the liquor licenses.

 

[Hickory Born]

New Idea...shoot holes in it, I'm tough.

Someone said they "thought" they saw Mr D walking on Friday morning. What IF, the killer asked Mr D to come into his house...next thing you know he shoots him. Killer then calls Mrs. D and gives some kind of excuse (like Mr. D turned his ankle) and she needs to drive over and pick him up. Then he kills Mrs. D while she is there. He then puts both of them in plastic bags and tarps and drives to their house in their own car. (He could have waited until dark to do this) Opens garage door with their own opener and pulls their car into garage, walks back to his house and gets his boat and then goes to the Dermonds dock to retrieve Mrs. D and head.

That is IF, IF, IF the killer lives in the same neighborhood.

OBE, would you entertain an idea of the killer living in a gated neighborhood directly across the lake?

 

[tlcya]

IMO whatever was used to decapitate MrD was not the weapon that killed him as wasn't it the ME who reported that he was decapitated AFTER death.

I still hold fast to the notion that the weapon for beheading could also be the murder weapon. The blow to the head that was killing and then a separate strike after his death that was the beheading strike. Unless there is GSR I still hold fast to the idea that we can't know if the two killing weapons for both Dermonds are possibly the same weapon.

Some yes some no. I still have a very hard time with all the 'movements' in this killing, beheading, placing of the bodies. Moving lifeless bodies that had to weigh twice as much as a living person. Dead weight.

How did they take SD from her home, place her in a boat, travel down the river in the dead of night in pitch darkness (assuming that would be the time). Also did they move about the house and garage with no lights?

If SD was drug down to a boat surely there would be drag marks that Sills would have spoke of. I have heard nothing other than maybe some foot prints.

Who the heck carries around a head? Where did the murders and beheading occur? How did they get them into and out of the murder scene?

If this was a resident I am going to say it's somebody that knew they would be alone in their residence that weekend. I am still thinking of a Sigg or Gardner living in their family home.

Has anybody found anyplace that has given out the questions asked on that questionnaire filled out by residents.

I bet we could chew on that for a while!

All the moving of bodies and differing disposal/handling of the bodies bothers me too. I do not think this had to happen in the dead of night. I think boats have things like tarps and covers which tend to be stowed aboard, so it would be nothing to secrete a body in a boat quickly and then cover it with something like tarp or cover and no one would be the wiser. Five hundred people could pass the perp boat in close quarters and still be none the wiser there was a body and head aboard.

Is it strange to have only 2 of 3 children co-executors? I have 3 kids and I'd never chose to appoint 2, I'd either pick one or all.

Is she the youngest child Bootsie?

Sometimes they will select the two older children who they think are more than capable of executing the will.

Since it seems the boys are more business minded I don't find this odd at all.

IMO

Maybe the daughter didn't want to be an executrix. After being co-executor for two estates and then the single executor for a final estate, I give advice to all my friends...." You don't want to be executor of anyone's will, too much work!"

Please let me add, since the two brothers live in the same town and the sister lives in a different state, it would be easier logistically. When your have co-executors, both people have to sign all documents and it is a pain in the butt getting this done.

This is not uncommon at all IME. The sons seemed to know more about their father's businesses and investments, etc and be more involved in general in business. the daughter may not have wished to do it. The Dermonds may have chosen the two sons as co-executors because of proximity, familiarity with their business dealing or because they had the better heads for finance.

I see this alot. Sometimes when co-executors are named one of the co-executors will sign a document allowing the other to act independently without their involvement in order to facilitate. That may well happen in this instance as well.

Parents are often worried about offending on or the other of several children and therefore name co-executors. So that neither feels passed over or slighted. With the two sons being more involved in business they may not have wanted to choose just one to handle things.

Personality and family dynamic play a huge role in these decision and many couples agonize over it. Not just with wills but also with trusts, successor trustees, Powers of Attorney etc.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If there was much effort made to remove evidence of a gunshot, I think the shooter knew his (assuming male) gun was traceable. It must be legally registered in his name. Sounds like a place to start.

The only thing about that though mrsobrien if they don't have a weapon to compare it to or even know who he is then it isn't traceable. It just a lone unidentified bullet. Millions of handguns are registered in Georgia. And millions of bullets are purchased each year. That would be like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Bullets don't really identify any killer unless and until the suspect is ever found and the gun is also found too.

The only way they can obtain a weapon is if they have evidence already proving he is the suspect and if they can already prove he is the suspect based on other evidence then the gun is just an added extra if he kept the weapon.

Many times a weapon is never located in homicide cases so the police have to build their case on other CE evidence.

 

[Zuri]

In Georgia, I think I had to give a thumbprint for my DL...but if you are not in government job/bonded/financial/jail/prison/to get a carry permit.... who else has their prints on file as a regular SOP for their position?

TIA

It is now required that all staff of a hospital, including nurses and physicians get fingerprinted.

ETA: Even as an RN in a large credit card company, fingerprinting was required.
This never used to be a requirement for employment in a hospital. Background check too.

 

[atthelake]

Probate notices have been published. It must be awful to have to go through this process for both parents at the same time.

http://georgiapublicnotice.com/

Question for moderator - Are we allowed to make a link/jpeg of this and post it for those that prefer not to traverse with inputs etc and to help others out...or is that against TOS?

TIA

 

[Litig8ter]

New Idea...shoot holes in it, I'm tough.

Someone said they "thought" they saw Mr D walking on Friday morning. What IF, the killer asked Mr D to come into his house...next thing you know he shoots him. Killer then calls Mrs. D and gives some kind of excuse (like Mr. D turned his ankle) and she needs to drive over and pick him up. Then he kills Mrs. D while she is there. He then puts both of them in plastic bags and tarps and drives to their house in their own car. (He could have waited until dark to do this) Opens garage door with their own opener and pulls their car into garage, walks back to his house and gets his boat and then goes to the Dermonds dock to retrieve Mrs. D and head.

That is IF, IF, IF the killer lives in the same neighborhood.

OBE, would you entertain an idea of the killer living in a gated neighborhood directly across the lake?

Possible. There would be DNA or tarp fibers in their trunk and I would be flabbergasted if samples have not been taken from there. We know Sills has some undisclosed evidence, so that is certainly plausible based upon what we have been told.

 

[Canaille]

In Georgia, I think I had to give a thumbprint for my DL...but if you are not in government job/bonded/financial/jail/prison/to get a carry permit.... who else has their prints on file as a regular SOP for their position?

TIA

Schools?

Real Estate agents?

Maybe Insurance Adjusters?

Our runner at my previous job had to use his fingerprint every time he took a check of mine to cash for me at the bank.

 

[atthelake]

:beagle: : beagle :

:giggle: Thanks as I couldn't find it. jealous of all y'all that fill a post with lots of smilies! It makes me smile!

O/T one time I tried to do a post with almost entire smilies... I learned that there is a limit of smilies you can do in one post :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: and it took me about 15 minutes to type it out :tantrum:

 

[peedoffinny]

Saving a place. I see the.good.sheriff Sills gave us some more Sillisms.:loveyou:

Can you please tell me how to save your place? Does it save to the last post your read? :seeya:

 

[Hickory Born]

In NC all attorneys are fingerprinted. And I once worked for a company that ran hotels and all the officers had to be fingerprinted for the liquor licenses.

Welcome Stella G! Nice to have you posting with us.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I still hold fast to the notion that the weapon for beheading could also be the murder weapon. The blow to the head that was killing and then a separate strike after his death that was the beheading strike. Unless there is GSR I still hold fast to the idea that we can't know if the two killing weapons for both Dermonds are possibly the same weapon.

All the moving of bodies and differing disposal/handling of the bodies bothers me too. I do not think this had to happen in the dead of night. I think boats have things like tarps and covers which tend to be stowed aboard, so it would be nothing to secrete a body in a boat quickly and then cover it with something like tarp or cover and no one would be the wiser. Five hundred people could pass the perp boat in close quarters and still be none the wiser there was a body and head aboard.

.

Respectfully snipped for focus.....

The GBI ME does thousands of homicide autopsies each year. They are very knowledgeable in their field of expertise with many years of experience. Any ME can tell if something was done peri-mortem or post-mortem and the ME said he was decapitated after he was murdered. Why do you disbelieve him if I may ask?

In Sills interview yesterday with Mark Winne he stated he has evidence that shows two different weapons were used. He would not say this unless he had evidence that supports that, imo.

Why do you think it wasn't done at night? Does it make more sense to you that all of this was done in broad daylight with everyone coming and going at GW? More boats would be in the water during the day than there ever would be at night.

I just don't see a lot of movement.

This is the way I see it happening: JMO

1. He kills them in his home most likely in his basement.
2. Wraps them up in tarps.
3. Goes up to the D home with Russ' torso unfolds the tarp and pulls Russ' torso out of the tarp to get him into the garage before he leaves with the head and Shirley.
4. Loads her up rolled up in tarp and Russ' head in garbage bags.
5. Navigates out in to the deep waters-heaves her over the side by unfolding the tarp when he knows no one is coming and opens the trash bag and lets the head fall in the water.
6. Quietly returns to his own home/dock and goes back inside of his home using the back door like nothing has ever happened.

I just don't see any of this being a complex task.

IMO

 

[Bethanthony]

What blunder did the killer make? He seems so far to have gotten away with these crimes.

I really don't think he was shot. I think he was bludgeoned with a different weapon that Shirley was bludgeoned with. It makes no sense that he would take a chance of a gunshot being fired/heard and then use a bludgeoning weapon on Shirley. It he was going to take that risk of using a gun in the first place he would have shot them both and be done with it.

I think after the murderer murdered Russ he saw clearly that it had made an pattern impression on his scalp and skull which would ID the weapon used. A very unique weapon that he used to bludgeon Russ imo and not something that everyone has. But the main reason why he took the head and Shirley is he wanted others to think Shirley was the 'missing' suspect and had murdered Russ herself imo.

Taking the head to hide a bullet doesn't make sense to me. Bullets don't tell the police who the murder is. Its just a bullet of some caliber..it doesn't ID the gun used and in Georgia all sorts of guns are purchased from the same manufacturers and also bullets are sold to individuals that likes one big name brand over the other one. So for example lets say it was a .38 with a hollow point bullet. Well many thousands of gun owners in Georgia have that same weapon and use the same bullets.

So finding a bullet would put them no closer to knowing who the murder is. It would just remain a bullet until and if they ever found the weapon used so striation bullet marking testing could identify the bullet to the weapon he used. They must have the weapon first to even do a comparison ...until then it would just be a bullet and nothing more.

He didn't have to have any defensive wounds. One blow to the head has been known to kill someone instantly and if they weren't killed instantly they were totally stunned and thrown into unconsciousness from the forceful blow that rocks the brain.

I don't think there were 2 killers. I think one lone killer could have easily done all of this right by themselves. We have seen countless cases where one lone perpetrator was able to murder multiple people even up to 6 or 8 by bludgeoning them all to death.

If the killer really wanted someone, ANYONE, to think SD committed RD's murder, there is no way they would have decapitated him. Shot him, yes. But an 88 year old woman is not going to have the strength to wield a weapon powerful enough to sever a head.

With the information we have through MSM, I would agree that it might be a single perpetrator. But I'm choosing to believe that LE knows something more about the scene that leads them to their specific conclusion that this was more than just one person.

 

[atthelake]

a number of helicopters in the area tonight.

:gasp: It is dark and raining right now... hmmmmm

 

[Canaille]

Respectfully snipped for focus.....

The GBI ME does thousands of homicide autopsies each year. They are very knowledgeable in their field of expertise with many years of experience. Any ME can tell if something was done peri-mortem or post-mortem and the ME said he was decapitated after he was murdered. Why do you disbelieve him if I may ask?

In Sills interview yesterday with Mark Winne he stated he has evidence that shows two different weapons were used. He would not say this unless he had evidence that supports that, imo.

Why do you think it wasn't done at night? Does it make more sense to you that all of this was done in broad daylight with everyone coming and going at GW? More boats would be in the water during the day than there ever would be at night.

I just don't see a lot of movement.

This is the way I see it happening: JMO

1. He kills them in his home most likely in his basement.
2. Wraps them up in tarps.
3. Goes up to the D home with Russ' torso unfolds the tarp and pulls Russ' torso out of the tarp to get him into the garage before he leaves with the head and Shirley.
4. Loads her up rolled up in tarp and Russ' head in garbage bags.
5. Navigates out in to the deep waters-heaves her over the side by unfolding the tarp when he knows no one is coming and opens the trash bag and lets the head fall in the water.
6. Quietly returns to his own home/dock and goes back inside of his home using the back door like nothing has ever happened.

I just don't see any of this being a complex task.

IMO

So, how does the perp get away without any blood on him and his clothing? Lives alone? Had a second change of clothes to change into before returning home and discarded the first set? I would think he must have gotten some blood on him at least from the decapitation.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Can you please tell me how to save your place? Does it save to the last post your read? :seeya:

If you save your place by posting then all you have to do is go to your own page and look up 'last post' that you have posted and it will take you to where you left off.

That's how I do it anyway others may do it differently.

IMO

 

[Bethanthony]

In Georgia, I think I had to give a thumbprint for my DL...but if you are not in government job/bonded/financial/jail/prison/to get a carry permit.... who else has their prints on file as a regular SOP for their position?

TIA

Anyone with a green card, as opposed to full American citizenship, has to go to the FBI and have their fingerprints taken before their green card is issued, or reissued. In some states, people in social work also have fingerprints taken. Many schools offer an optional service where you can have your child fingerprinted and kept on file with law enforcement.

 

[atthelake]

It is now required that all staff of a hospital, including nurses and physicians get fingerprinted.

ETA: Even as an RN in a large credit card company, fingerprinting was required.
This never used to be a requirement for employment in a hospital. Background check too.

:seeya: :blowkiss:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

So, how does the perp get away without any blood on him and his clothing? Lives alone? Had a second change of clothes to change into before returning home and discarded the first set? I would think he must have gotten some blood on him at least from the decapitation.

I do think he had blood on him during the actual murders but I think he went back inside of his own home and destroyed those or put them in trash bags to be discarded. He may have taken his bloody clothes the following morning and put them somewhere else like in a trash bag filled with a lot of other unidentifiable trash and threw it in a business dumpster downtown away from GW.

Remember he had days to discard any clothing, shoes etc. even though I think he may have done that the next day.

So much evidence is lost and never found when a murderer throws something away in a dumpster far away from the crime scene. In other cases even if witnesses were told that is where they were thrown many times the items are never recovered or located. And there are no witnesses in this case. imo.

IMO