GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 6

[Bethanthony]

Anyone with a green card, as opposed to full American citizenship, has to go to the FBI and have their fingerprints taken before their green card is issued, or reissued. In some states, people in social work also have fingerprints taken. Many schools offer an optional service where you can have your child fingerprinted and kept on file with law enforcement.

Oh, I think we all forgot a HUGE one (thanks Edward Snowden). Um, anyone in the ENTIRE world who has a cell phone with the fingerprint ID app on it! lol I guess that would just be for the NSA's use though

 

[Zuri]

:seeya: :blowkiss:

Back at you my most beautiful lake xo

 

[Bootsctr]

:gasp: It is dark and raining right now... hmmmmm

Severe weather alert. Be safe everyone!

http://www.wsbtv.com/list/news/home-page-top-headlines/mCpw/

 

[Zuri]

I would think, if LE had any clue to who murdered the Dermonds, they would have been arrested already. The further out this gets, the case gets colder. Unsolvable?

 

[murphy3k]

In NC all attorneys are fingerprinted. And I once worked for a company that ran hotels and all the officers had to be fingerprinted for the liquor licenses.

Georgia attorneys are fingerprinted as part of the fitness application. Here, your fingerprints must be submitted within 30 days of your application. Without them, they will not certify you to even sit for the bar exam. I did mine through our local police department.

Georgia also requires psychologists, nurses, and private detectives/investigators to be printed prior to licensing approval and for renewal. I'm sure there are others.

IMO, but it's personal knowledge.

 

[Bethanthony]

The only thing about that though mrsobrien if they don't have a weapon to compare it to or even know who he is then it isn't traceable. It just a lone unidentified bullet. Millions of handguns are registered in Georgia. And millions of bullets are purchased each year. That would be like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Bullets don't really identify any killer unless and until the suspect is ever found and the gun is also found too.

The only way they can obtain a weapon is if they have evidence already proving he is the suspect and if they can already prove he is the suspect based on other evidence then the gun is just an added extra if he kept the weapon.

Many times a weapon is never located in homicide cases so the police have to build their case on other CE evidence.

While it is a valid point that the bullet itself may not link to a specific person or gun, it may however, link the crime to another similar crime. By combining evidence from two crime scenes, it would probably exponentially increase the chances of identifying a POI.

 

[OTPTarheel]

"Personality and family play a huge role in these decision and many couples agonize over it. Not just with wills but also with trusts, successor trustees, Powers of Attorney etc."

Snipped for focus

I wouldn't read anything into the executors...I am the younger child but always the responsible child so I have all the legal duties. And it was that way long before my brother died. He did not care.

 

[Zuri]

"Personality and family play a huge role in these decision and many couples agonize over it. Not just with wills but also with trusts, successor trustees, Powers of Attorney etc."

Snipped for focus

I wouldn't read anything into the executors...I am the younger child but always the responsible child so I have all the legal duties. And it was that way long before my brother died. He did not care.

I totally agree. My mother and father (1928, 1932)both picked my surviving brother to be their executor. He is the youngest and male. I wonder if it is just what parents of that era do if there is a surviving son.

 

[atthelake]

Can you please tell me how to save your place? Does it save to the last post your read? :seeya:

It depends. Are you using a smart phone with tapatalk, or a computer. (I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend installing tapatalk if you want to use smart phone sometimes...it's fab!! to just peek at threads you are interested in without booting up computer)

Specific to what you are asking....If using a computer, and more than one page on the thread, you can see at the top of all postings a link for "view first unread" and it will fly you to the last post you viewed.

As an aside... Another option that many use is with smart phones... to comment on a thread makes it an auto "subscribe to a thread" and automatically therefore it will be more easily brought up on a setting we have on our phones. (and computer) You'll see folks posting just to do that when a new thread starts.

A third option is to click on "subscribe to thread".

It takes time to learn it all! Just ask as there are knowledgeable folks here who can help more than I. Just a few years experience, and I am learning all the time with help from others.

Perhaps others can chime in to help.

 

[al66pine]

Logistics of transporting Mrs S from land into water into lake -- notwithstanding
-whether she was 'placed' deliberately at that particular spot,
-whether her remains were placed elsewhere in the water and 'drifted' to spot where she was found by fishermen,
whether her remains were weighted or not.

It seems clumsy and awkward to lift a body into a boat (presumably a smallish one, not an ocean liner) even at a dock (like the ones around the lake) and especially to lift/raise body over the gunwale and into the water without a dock or object to stabilize boat. Esp. If only one person was doing the job.

Regardless of how and where MrsD was killed, is it possible when killer(s) was (were) ready to move the remains, the body (perhaps weighted a bit) was tethered to the boat and pulled under the water's surface? Then the remains could be untethered from the boat. And maybe - or not - then tethered to trees or objects in an attempt to keep the remains from surfacing and easily being found.

Just a thought about how one person without inordinate strength could manage that one aspect of moving a body.

Pure speculation only and I'm not convinced. Just a possibility.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If the killer really wanted someone, ANYONE, to think SD committed RD's murder, there is no way they would have decapitated him. Shot him, yes. But an 88 year old woman is not going to have the strength to wield a weapon powerful enough to sever a head.

With the information we have through MSM, I would agree that it might be a single perpetrator. But I'm choosing to believe that LE knows something more about the scene that leads them to their specific conclusion that this was more than just one person.

Older woman have certainly murdered their husband's before and have done overkills. I just saw one convicted for doing so and she was 79 at the time.

My 89 year old mother in law can still remove the head of a large deer when she is helping to dress it out.

It doesn't take a lot of strength to decapitate someone. It just takes a very sharp instrument when doing so.

I have to agree with Sills on this one and I have long held the opinion that the decapitation wasn't done out of anger but necessity instead. Even Sills said clearly that he had to consider Shirley as a possible suspect since she was only classified as 'missing' at the time. I think that is what the murderer wanted them to think all along.

Which again, makes me now think the murderous rage was more against Shirley than Russ since I think he set up for her to take the fall. R was just used as a pawn to divert attention away from the suspect and into making it look like Shirley was just missing possibly on her own free will.

And we think that someone this elderly wouldn't ever kill someone over another lover they secretly had but it sure has happened before but not in Shirley's case.

Remember the case where the 72 year old woman beat her husband to death with a grubbing hoe because she wanted to be with her secret lover who was even older than her elderly hubby?

Some think elderly people never think about having affairs or even think about sex for that matter but they do. My grandmother who lived to be 95 lived in a retirement home and she said so many in their 70-80s were having affairs there it would make your head spin. These were people that had been married 60-65 years or more to the same spouse. One couple even got a divorce and turned around and married their lover when they were in their 80s.

IMO

 

[tomkat]

true, I like the way you think Shadow.............but you are correct, we don't know all that LE knows, but can you imagine if you were friends with someone that knew something or was the perp, you would definitely notice someone sweating for sure !!

I think the request for reward money is multi faceted.

It gets (already has if you count comments on MSM FB pages) people talking; friends, associates, family as well as the community in general. Talking provides a catalyst to jog the memory about what they have seen, heard and suspect.
It draws attention from the media. It also could provide LE with additional information by giving them another list of names to look at, both as those who donated and those who didn’t, and may give them information to allow them to pursue connections that they might otherwise not know about.

I also think the use of the word “hoodlums” is being used to elicit a specific response, but without truly knowing what LE does know, it’s difficult to speculate on what that is.
As others have already said it could be to insult the perp into making a mistake.
It could also give someone who may want to protect their own reputation from being damaged a reason to dissociate themselves with someone who may be thought of in that manor, which could lead to a change in behavior that will attract attention, leading to newfound information.
It could also be to get the local community talking about who “fits” the description of a hoodlum based on their interpretation of the word, and LE may hear about someone’s propensity for certain behaviors that would not otherwise be discussed.

The newly released information about LE having fingerprints, hairs, fibers and other forensic evidence is, in my opinion, to make the perp extremely anxious. Anxious behavior will stand out to those around them.

The release of the information about two different weapons, and the fact that LE thinks that SD’s body was not planned to be found, and especially the fact that they went back to the house for another look see is possibly to cause the perp to actually react.
That reaction could be one of many different things; dispose of the murder weapon(s), or try to put it back. Maybe move the head or check to see it has been found. Move, sell something, close a bank account, etc. Do something that will cause a big enough stir or even to entice them to ask some questions that only the perp would think about. Anything that may draw LE attention as odd or out of the ordinary.

Basically my thoughts are pretty much the same as what many have already commented on.

Source: http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/exclu...couple-/ngDzD/

 

[Hickory Born]

Respectfully snipped for focus.....

The GBI ME does thousands of homicide autopsies each year. They are very knowledgeable in their field of expertise with many years of experience. Any ME can tell if something was done peri-mortem or post-mortem and the ME said he was decapitated after he was murdered. Why do you disbelieve him if I may ask?

In Sills interview yesterday with Mark Winne he stated he has evidence that shows two different weapons were used. He would not say this unless he had evidence that supports that, imo.

Why do you think it wasn't done at night? Does it make more sense to you that all of this was done in broad daylight with everyone coming and going at GW? More boats would be in the water during the day than there ever would be at night.

I just don't see a lot of movement.

This is the way I see it happening: JMO

1. He kills them in his home most likely in his basement.
2. Wraps them up in tarps.
3. Goes up to the D home with Russ' torso unfolds the tarp and pulls Russ' torso out of the tarp to get him into the garage before he leaves with the head and Shirley.
4. Loads her up rolled up in tarp and Russ' head in garbage bags.
5. Navigates out in to the deep waters-heaves her over the side by unfolding the tarp when he knows no one is coming and opens the trash bag and lets the head fall in the water.
6. Quietly returns to his own home/dock and goes back inside of his home using the back door like nothing has ever happened.

I just don't see any of this being a complex task.

IMO

How does he get them in his home in the first place...and what mode of transportation, car, boat, walking, bicycle, rickshaw?

The reason I am asking this is...Mrs. D had a mobility problem. I don't think she would be walking down the hill to the dock and I can't see her walking a distance on the roads in GW. So how did he get her over to his house.

 

[Foxfire]

A very informative documentary;

Inside The FBI's Crime Lab - Quantico, VA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYw8geBuld0

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Logistics of transporting Mrs S from land into water into lake -- notwithstanding
-whether she was 'placed' deliberately at that particular spot,
-whether her remains were placed elsewhere in the water and 'drifted' to spot where she was found by fishermen,
whether her remains were weighted or not.

It seems clumsy and awkward to lift a body into a boat (presumably a smallish one, not an ocean liner) even at a dock (like the ones around the lake) and especially to lift/raise body over the gunwhale and into the water without a dock or object to stabilize boat. Esp. If only one person was doing the job.

Regardless of how and where MrsD was killed, is it possible when killer(s) was (were) ready to move the remains, the body (perhaps weighted a bit) was tethered to the boat and pulled under the water's surface? Then the remains could be untethered from the boat. And maybe - or not - then tethered to trees or objects in an attempt to keep the remains from surfacing and easily being found.

Just a thought about how one person without inordinate strength could manage that one aspect of moving a body.

Pure speculation only and I'm not convinced. Just a possibility.

Remember Scott Peterson did the exact same thing and Laci weighed way more than 148 pounds at the time due to the weight gain with her pregnancy. He put her body in his little Jon boat... covered her body with a tarp and drove 85 miles to the SF bay.

He didn't have one problem heaving Laci and Conner over the side of his small Jon boat and he wasn't in the smooth waters of a lake like where the killer took Shirley's body either but was out in the middle of the SF bay with waves.

People have been discarding dead bodies of homicide victims right by themselves from boats and throwing them in deep water forever..whether it is in a creek, river, lake or ocean. This isn't something new by any means.

All one has to do is get the body up on the rim of the top boat edge/rim and the weight of the body itself will make it go overboard.

 

[mck16]

Georgia attorneys are fingerprinted as part of the fitness application. Here, your fingerprints must be submitted within 30 days of your application. Without them, they will not certify you to even sit for the bar exam. I did mine through our local police department.

Georgia also requires psychologists, nurses, and private detectives/investigators to be printed prior to licensing approval and for renewal. I'm sure there are others.

IMO, but it's personal knowledge.

Was LE mentioned? ty

 

[osu]

Background checks and finger printing required in many states for:

Nursing home staff and employees
Adult Day Care staff and employees
Home Health Care Agency employees (not all states require)
Hospice Staff
University and College Faculty, Employees and Staff
HazMat Commercial Truck Drivers
Teachers and other school employees
School bus drivers
Apartment managers and caretakers
Residential mortgage originators
Drivers Training Instructors

 

[Bethanthony]

Older woman have certainly murdered their husband's before and have done overkills. I just saw one convicted for doing so and she was 79 at the time.

My 89 year old mother in law can still remove the head of a large deer when she is helping to dress it out.

It doesn't take a lot of strength to decapitate someone. It just takes a very sharp instrument when doing so.

I have to agree with Sills on this one and I have long held the opinion that the decapitation wasn't done out of anger but necessity instead. Even Sills said clearly that he had to consider Shirley as a possible suspect since she was only classified as 'missing' at the time. I think that is what the murderer wanted them to think all along.

Which again, makes me now think the murderous rage was more against Shirley than Russ since I think he set up for her to take the fall. R was just used as a pawn to divert attention away from the suspect and into making it look like Shirley was just missing possibly on her own free will.

And we think that someone this elderly wouldn't ever kill someone over another lover they secretly had but it sure has happened before but not in Shirley's case.

Remember the case where the 72 year old woman beat her husband to death with a grubbing hoe because she wanted to be with her secret lover who was even older than her elderly hubby?

Some think elderly people never think about having affairs or even think about sex for that matter but they do. My grandmother who lived to be 95 lived in a retirement home and she said so many in their 70-80s were having affairs there it would make your head spin. These were people that had been married 60-65 years or more to the same spouse. One couple even got a divorce and turned around and married their lover when they were in their 80s.

IMO

I don't want to belabor the point, but it doesn't make sense that the killer would try to frame SD by decapitating her husband.

It would take significant strength to beheadsomeone if you don't do it in the right area. And a woman born and bred in NJ and CT society who went to Barnard is not someone accustomed to breaking down deer.

There is a big difference between a 70 year old and a 90 year old woman. While it may have happened once or twice that a woman that old killed their husband, it is far from the norm. No amount of explanation will convince me that the killer thought he was framing SD by beheading her husband.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

How does he get them in his home in the first place...and what mode of transportation, car, boat, walking, bicycle, rickshaw?

Oh gosh I feel I have to keep repeating myself.

I have already said he came on foot up to the backside of their home when they both were outside. He knew their daily habits very well imo. I think this happened in the late evening..maybe dusk dark. He either lured them to his home under false pretenses or he forced them to go at gunpoint. I think he used intimidation on a very elderly couple because he knew it would work.

Then after he murdered them he used his own boat. He had no reason to try to sneak into the front entrance by the guard shack or take the chance of going out by vehicle or coming back in afterwards. IMO, he was already there on the premises when this entire thing started.

IMO

 

[Canaille]

I'm just hoping this bum doesn't commit suicide. For some reason, that thought has crossed my mind a few times.