GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 9

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I so want the person or people responsible caught....like yesterday. That lady looks soooooo familiar to me. Maybe it's her smile....I don't know. I'm leaning towards a maniac trolled and stalked them for murder. Sort of like a BTK kind of psychopath. I feel that it is somebody who lives close by because they definitely know the waters. They've been there in that area a good while.
 
wow, really dark from the water under all those trees and really secluded from the second picture angle
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...AD3E9CD3189978E2D58290D35A557&selectedIndex=4

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...66BD7EA4C0BCCEBFF69FF29A415A&selectedIndex=28

both of these images shows several objects, white or light colored, in the yard, square looking near the straw covered beds can't tell what it is or then again why they'd have blocks sporadically placed around the flower bed,


http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...03A1CF7992B506A7FE0E89A85285F&selectedIndex=5

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...7262BB951F5ED6A51B771556DE1CF&selectedIndex=7

Just chekcing out pics to see what might be of interest
 
Y'all did exactly what I did. Look at the D's house for end caps used as landscaping, etc. I did not see anything obvious either. I used the term "thether" as that is the term used in the question I responded to. Now I know it's "anchor". Can someone please tell me what IIRC means? I figured I'd eventually figure it out, but I can't. Interesting regarding Ms. D in "everyday clothing". I have wondered that for a long time. Sounds like not pajamas. Regarding the end cap blocks, I think I would have brought cinder blocks with holes or something else with me if I were planning to submerge a body. If you were planning to submerge a body so it would never be found, wouldn't you use something else?
 
Y'all did exactly what I did. Look at the D's house for end caps used as landscaping, etc. I did not see anything obvious either. I used the term "thether" as that is the term used in the question I responded to. Now I know it's "anchor". Can someone please tell me what IIRC means? I figured I'd eventually figure it out, but I can't. Interesting regarding Ms. D in "everyday clothing". I have wondered that for a long time. Sounds like not pajamas. Regarding the end cap blocks, I think I would have brought cinder blocks with holes or something else with me if I were planning to submerge a body. If you were planning to submerge a body so it would never be found, wouldn't you use something else?

IIRC - If I remember correctly.
 
Scott Petersen made his own concrete weights with cement and buckets.
 
Scott Petersen made his own concrete weights with cement and buckets.

Point being that he carried them with him, that was his intention, to anchor with them, he didnt' go and suddenly decide to

I watched the movie the other night, I thought they said concrete blocks but that's just a movie but that's where i got it from and had always heard that

thanks
 
Y'all did exactly what I did. Look at the D's house for end caps used as landscaping, etc. I did not see anything obvious either. I used the term "thether" as that is the term used in the question I responded to. Now I know it's "anchor". Can someone please tell me what IIRC means? I figured I'd eventually figure it out, but I can't. Interesting regarding Ms. D in "everyday clothing". I have wondered that for a long time. Sounds like not pajamas. Regarding the end cap blocks, I think I would have brought cinder blocks with holes or something else with me if I were planning to submerge a body. If you were planning to submerge a body so it would never be found, wouldn't you use something else?

I dont' know what I'd use, but I've heard concrete blocks in many instances, $1.48 verses WHAT for boat anchors, clearly the solid ones are heavier, why they used it, I think they already had them but I posted a pic upthread of the D's lakeside lot, that had something in the yard around the flower beds, sparsely spaced by far off could appear to be cinder blocks but I cna't tell from pic
 
Just curious, if someone is throwing a body into a lake, do they throw the body in first or the blocks in first?

I can picture someone throwing out the blocks first which could drag out/down the body from the boat or else someone throwing out the body first and then throwing out the blocks and watching to see if the blocks pull the body down below the surface.

How would you tie a rope on a solid block so that it wouldn't slip off when it hit the water? Would you tie the rope around it in the middle or wrap it around all four sides like for a package? Has anyone used a block for an anchor in the water or to anchor the boat to a bank to keep it from floating away or would that be too rednecky? I'm assuming two ropes, one for each block, but could the blocks be tied together with one rope?

I wonder why kind of rope was used. A heavy round rope or one more like a ski rope?

If no experience, any thoughts would be appreciated anyway!
 
Just curious, if someone is throwing a body into a lake, do they throw the body in first or the blocks in first?

I can picture someone throwing out the blocks first which could drag out/down the body from the boat or else someone throwing out the body first and then throwing out the blocks and watching to see if the blocks pull the body down below the surface.

How would you tie a rope on a solid block so that it wouldn't slip off when it hit the water? Would you tie the rope around it in the middle or wrap it around all four sides like for a package? Has anyone used a block for an anchor in the water or to anchor the boat to a bank to keep it from floating away or would that be too rednecky? I'm assuming two ropes, one for each block, but could the blocks be tied together with one rope?

I wonder why kind of rope was used. A heavy round rope or one more like a ski rope?

If no experience, any thoughts would be appreciated anyway!

Ok, we have, we used one we had, to anchor a jetski but it was the one with 2 openings

as far as how, I was thinking the same thing, would the rope slip off the block, but probably didn't use a real thick rope, probably smaller so you can tie it tighter. soemthing not slick like ski rope, a cotton type possibly? I don't think we know if the rope was still attached to her, indicating the rope slipped off the block, but the blocks are rough and may not easily slide off and also does the rope swell in the water, if so, might make it tighter or hang on better to the rough block? Ski rope doesnt swells when it's wet I don't think and it's slick, never really checked to see but surely not. But thinking the block would probably topple over once thrown in the water and land flat, widest part down on the bottom of the lake? Thinking that'd be kind of, IDK, loud, rough, to throw the block first and let a body follow so possibly threw body then blocks of course she was more than 2 blocks weighed so would the body follow? And in the water, a body is weightless, unlike the cement blocks

IDK, horrible to think about for sure!

Does anyone remember that the landscapers next door to the D's were interviewed in the beginning?
 
I couldn't remember right off about any landscapers since I didn't think they had any neighbors but I googled and found this. Interesting!

The polygraphs, of maintenance workers...

Further down on the page, I remembered this. The fear!

biggest challenge has been interviewing nervous friends and neighbors of the Dermonds

Now I wonder who Sills was wanting to question harder? I don't believe it was the family he was talking about.

http://m.ajc.com/news/news/local/decapitation-mystery-reward-offered-for-missing-ea/nfwqX/
 
I remember the landscapers being interviewed.
Around the same time there was a pic of a guy in the yard.
You are not losing it!
 
As I thought more about the blocks last night, it occurred to me that they might be used to stabilize the kind of docks that one pulls out in the winter and puts back in in the spring. Or maybe even used as steps down an incline to a dock? A garden bed liner?

If we go by the theory that the killers came and/or left by boat, those blocks had to have been in the boat or nearby. Who would carry those in their boat? The only thing I can think of is a dock repair company or something along those lines. Otherwise, the blocks might have already been right in the Dermonds backyard...

One thing I remember from right after Shirley was found -- and sorry, I don't have the link right handy-- is a report something along the lines that investigators were scanning or searching the shorelines for something but would not say what. I wondered at the time if some sort of heavy, decorative lawn/wall item might have been used for a weight and they were looking for where it might have come from. So, now we know: blocks -- I still think maybe they were looking for a likely source up on the shoreline.
 
Just curious, if someone is throwing a body into a lake, do they throw the body in first or the blocks in first?

I can picture someone throwing out the blocks first which could drag out/down the body from the boat or else someone throwing out the body first and then throwing out the blocks and watching to see if the blocks pull the body down below the surface.

How would you tie a rope on a solid block so that it wouldn't slip off when it hit the water? Would you tie the rope around it in the middle or wrap it around all four sides like for a package? Has anyone used a block for an anchor in the water or to anchor the boat to a bank to keep it from floating away or would that be too rednecky? I'm assuming two ropes, one for each block, but could the blocks be tied together with one rope?

I wonder why kind of rope was used. A heavy round rope or one more like a ski rope?

If no experience, any thoughts would be appreciated anyway!


I wish LE would give the specifics you mentioned, and I do not understand why basic facts are being withheld after 9 months. Perhaps the knots used, the type of rope used, etc are being withheld for a good reason. I am not a Boy Scout. but I would think that using cement blocks without holes would be a lot harder to secure than cement blocks with holes. Nonetheless, here is the best example I can find for how to tie a knot for a holeless brick like a Boy Scout:

http://www.animatedknots.com/anchor...ge=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com
Anchor Hitch (Fisherman's Hitch)

Was it stated that both blocks were still attached to the body? One similar block could have become unattached and been found on the bottom of the lake?

Just a fact that had escaped me until today, Russell Dermond had paid taxes on a 23-foot fiberglass boat, which SS said he had sold recently before the murders. I am sure that LE has fully checked out the purchase. But this reminds me of the horrific Hawks case:

http://articles.latimes.com/2005/may/23/local/me-yacht23
A couple were horrifically killed over the sale of their 55-foot yacht (I wonder if the victims came in contact with their killers over a "for sale" ad, such as on Craigslist?)
Police say that somewhere between Newport Harbor and Santa Catalina, the Hawkses were handcuffed to the boat's anchor and thrown overboard alive. Tom was 57; Jackie, was 47. Their bodies have not been found.

Out of my 40 years of devouring true crime, I believe that this may be the most baffling and intriguing case ever.
 
I couldn't remember right off about any landscapers since I didn't think they had any neighbors but I googled and found this. Interesting!

The polygraphs, of maintenance workers...

Further down on the page, I remembered this. The fear!

biggest challenge has been interviewing nervous friends and neighbors of the Dermonds

Now I wonder who Sills was wanting to question harder? I don't believe it was the family he was talking about.

http://m.ajc.com/news/news/local/decapitation-mystery-reward-offered-for-missing-ea/nfwqX/

Winne said a close friend of the couple?
 
One thing I remember from right after Shirley was found -- and sorry, I don't have the link right handy-- is a report something along the lines that investigators were scanning or searching the shorelines for something but would not say what. I wondered at the time if some sort of heavy, decorative lawn/wall item might have been used for a weight and they were looking for where it might have come from. So, now we know: blocks -- I still think maybe they were looking for a likely source up on the shoreline.

I kind of thought it was RD head
 
This said that the FBI gives more clues so I guess the FBI is still involved.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/fbi-gives-more-clues-death-putnam-county-couple/nkFKz/

The proper knot for tieing the cinder block caps would have been the clove hitch and two half hitches.
https://www.google.com/webhp?source...S595&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=clove+hitch+knot

If you read the article carefully, it sounds like the FBI are still not actively involved. The concrete blocks info came from SS. It sounds like the FBI agent was commenting on cases in general. What really makes me think that is the statement that the FBI would be there for whatever "Putnam feels that they need from the FBI." Does not sound to me that SS has requested their assistance either. At this point I have to say that it seems SS overrates his experience and capabilities and is guarding this case like a dog with a bone lest someone else actually solve the case. Of course, JMO.

I agree 100%, True Crime Lover.. Imo, the FBI's limited assistance is enabling Sheriff Sills from requesting the valuable investigative resources provided by the <GBI> Georgia Bureau of Investigation. Seems that the FBI would encourage Sheriff Sills to utilize all available investigative resources to prevent the Dermond murders from going unsolved.. Their inalienable rights of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness were taken from them on that tragic day.. They deserve Justice!

4inch concrete cap blocks, 35 lbs each, two used to weight Shirley down.

I'm certainly no expert in construction, but I can tell you these are not the normal concrete blocks for house construction. They are used as masonry wall caps.

And I would think if a person were to buy concrete blocks specifically for weighing a body down, they would choose the common ones with the holes that you run rebar through...it would make tying rope to them much easier.

Nope, this person had these caps handy, and perhaps close by.

Yes, the common cinder block with holes would have been a much better choice of anchors and likely used by the perps if preplanned.
Guess, it is possible that the concrete caps were found in the D's yard, left over from landscaping projects or even from their boat dock/pier.
<snipped>
www.law.cornell.edu &#8250; ... &#8250; Subpart D
Legal Information Institute
Apr 1, 2014 - Installation instructions for concrete block piers must be developed in accordance ... the base of the main chassis beam and the top of the pier cap; ... in thickness or 2 inch or 4 inch nominal concrete block must be used to fill in 24 CFR 3285.304 - Pier configuration.
CFR
§ 3285.304 Pier configuration.
(2) Caps must be solid concrete or masonry at least 4 inches in nominal thickness, or hardboard lumber at least 2 inches nominal in thickness; or be corrosion-protected minimum one-half inch thick steel; or be of other listed materials.
________________________

'As time goes on in this investigation, the parallels to the Rogers family murders in FL keeps coming back to memory/deja vu.. Concrete cinder blocks were also used to anchor their bodies down, and as Mrs D's body, surfaced days later and discovered likely by unsuspecting fishermen'..
______________

http://www.pulitzer.org/archives/7893
stpetetimes.jpg
Angels and Demons
Haunted - Chapter 2
By: Thomas French

Sunset


One year had gone by since the murders, and then another, and now the investigators were deep into a third. They were working day and night, working weekends, putting off vacations, losing weight, gaining weight, growing pale and pasty and haggard, waking at 3 a.m. with a jolt and scratching notes on pads beside their beds. Their sergeant did not know if they would ever find the answer. As far as he was concerned, the case was not even in their hands.

Ultimately, he believed, it was up to God whether they made an arrest.


A born-again Christian, the sergeant carried a Bible in his briefcase. He had no doubt that both heaven and hell were real. He saw good and evil not as theoretical or philosophical concepts, but as absolute realities walking upright through the world. He believed in the forces of light and darkness. He believed in demonic possession. He took it as a matter of fact that Satan and his cohorts currently reigned over the Earth.

"I believe there are demons all around us," he would say, "just as I believe there are angels all around us."

And when he looked at the evidence from the case before them now, studied the photos of the bodies and the ropes and the concrete blocks, the sergeant had no doubt that he and the other investigators were pursuing someone driven by Satanic forces.


Of course demons were real. They were hunting one now.
____________________________

The police investigation was already hurtling in a dozen different directions. And already running into a dozen different complications.

Even the question of how the three women were killed could not be answered with precision. The autopsies showed that they had died of asphyxiation, but the medical examiner could not determine whether they had drowned or been strangled by the ropes around their necks. Because the bodies had been in the water for several days, it was no longer possible to tell if there had been any sexual assault. Still, the most likely scenario appeared to be that the women had been tied and gagged, raped and then dropped into the water, one by one.

As for how many assailants had been involved, that was anybody's guess. Some theorized that it would have likely taken at least two attackers to subdue three victims. Others pointed out that one person, pointing a gun at a mother and her daughters, would have had no trouble compelling one of the victims to gag and tie up the other two before she was restrained herself. However many assailants there were, the nature and scope of this crime made it seem unlikely that the killer or killers were novices. It also seemed probable that the killer had derived some sadistic pleasure from forcing each of the women to witness what was happening to the others.

They searched construction sites near the boat ramp, looking for concrete blocks that matched those found tied to the bodies.

They consulted with agents at the FBI's behavioral science unit, hoping to develop at least a preliminary profile of the kind of person who could kill three people in this fashion.

<snipped - read more>
 
Foxfire: Excellent info! The Rogers case has been on my mind in regards to the case as well. IIRC, Oba Chandler tied the blocks around their necks and threw them alive one by one. Can you imagine the horror! The Angels and Demons article was one of the best true crime articles I have ever read. The main reason the Rogers case has been on my mind is that there was a lady who was a neighbor of Oba Chandler who contacted law authorities several times but was ignored. Even when they put up a billboard with a sample of the murderer's handwriting and she had a work proposal in the murderer's handwriting, she was ignored. (This was not emphasized in the Angels and Demons article) Sadly, it has been proved in 2014 that there was another victim (Ivelisse Berrios-Beguerisse) that Chandler killed in 1990 after the lady had contacted LE and been ignored.

http://www.forensicmag.com/news/2014/02/1990-strangulation-case-linked-dna-executed-killer

If the lady, who said the guy creeped her out the first time she met him and she feared him greatly, had not been ignored, this additional victim might not have been also horrifically murdered. BTW, Oba Chandler was executed in 2011 still proclaiming his innocence. Who knows how many other victims of his there were? The reason this has been on my mind in regards to the D case is the frankly arrogant attitude and behavior of the sheriff. I so hope he is not ignoring valuable info in this case, but IMO he is guarding this case and not releasing info because he wants to get the credit all for himself and to prove a point that the office of sheriff is still viable. I found another quote of SS regarding jurisdiction of the case of Ms. D:

http://www.msgr.com/news/crime/article_1a885b74-e12b-11e3-99d6-001a4bcf887a.html
Thursday, May 22, 2014

Sills said he wasn’t sure whether the body was in Putnam or Greene county but said he believed the GPS coordinates would show it was Greene. “That doesn’t matter,” Sills said Tuesday evening. “It’s not an issue.”

What?!?
 
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