GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #3

[JLSChook]

It was linked in the last thread. LE leaked that the car absolutely reeked to the high heavens which would be expected when a human being had been baking in it for 7 hours. (Hated typing that. so graphic).

A medical expert also stated Cooper would have been dead within an hour at those temperatures. Bodily fluids leak immediately after death and they smell.

Even without the leak, common sense would definitely state that Harris' car smelled at Noon as Connor would have been in there for hours enclosed at that point.

And as LE said, it definitely smelled very badly at 4:00 P.M. after Harris drove 1 mile in it before trying to screaming to strangers to call 911 and trying to give CPR to a child with Rigormorits. It has been reported that he was rigid in the position he was in while in the car seat while lying on the ground.

Harris knew he was dead. And he knew it at noon.

MOO

Yeah that. :yes:

 

[JudyBolton]

Today it was very hot here in Atlanta - I thought of Cooper every time I got into my hot car. I heard them interview a pediatrician from Emory Healthcare and he stated that - given the outside temperature and if the car was parked in the sun - he estimated that Cooper would have died within one hour and certainly before two hours had elapsed.

As to the smell - Scarlett - can you imagine that if he had been dead for at least 5 or 6 hours, there would have been some unusual odor in his car? Unless it was typical for him to drive around with dirty diapers and possibly vomit in his car, it had to smell of something. Whether that smell could be called "the smell of death" or not is subject to interpretation.

I did hear that or read that within the first day when they were interviewing people and I cannot say who commented on the smell. I do know when I heard it - it did not strike me as an outrageous thought or something that I could not possibly believe.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Yes. It should have smelled of all of these things. It does not have to be the smell of death, but it would have smelled.

Which creates a MAJOR problem for him at noon. Further, it creates another problem for him driving in it at ALL at 4 p.m. when he pulled into the restaurant screaming that his child was "choking'

Bottom line is that the car smelled, whatever the odor was it reeked.

I don't know if it does. 3 hours is not 7. And a lot can change in that next 4 hours.

Again, There is no proof at this point it smelled of anything.

 

[newone]

trying very hard to follow your breadcrumbs to comment on the FB link you provide about who put Cooper in the car seat at 11:05. But there are over 1200 comments under that link, lol. Do you happen to recall the initials of that poster? TIA if not I will have more work cut out for me this evening but willing to try.

CR

:twocents:

 

[Judicious1]

Thanks popsicle! We meet again I see :grouphug:

I didn't hear anything about a smell was I supposed to? Also I caught something I hadn't before. He said some of the warrants hadn't been executed yet and some had in response to a computer search question and ended the statement saying that's pure speculation.

 

[Spice]

I don't know if it does. 3 hours is not 7. And a lot can change in that next 4 hours.

Again, There is no proof at this point it smelled of anything.

Nope. There is no proof. Especially if you discount the LE leak. And thats okay. But then that leaves us with.....

Just common sense.

3 hours is not 7 hours. However, a diapered toddler enclosed in a sweltering hot car would produce a SMELL, dead or alive. Before Noon. In my opinion, it's magical thinking to state otherwise.

 

[JeannaT]

Today it was very hot here in Atlanta - I thought of Cooper every time I got into my hot car. I heard them interview a pediatrician from Emory Healthcare and he stated that - given the outside temperature and if the car was parked in the sun - he estimated that Cooper would have died within one hour and certainly before two hours had elapsed.

As to the smell - Scarlett - can you imagine that if he had been dead for at least 5 or 6 hours, there would have been some unusual odor in his car? Unless it was typical for him to drive around with dirty diapers and possibly vomit in his car, it had to smell of something. Whether that smell could be called "the smell of death" or not is subject to interpretation.

I did hear that or read that within the first day when they were interviewing people and I cannot say who commented on the smell. I do know when I heard it - it did not strike me as an outrageous thought or something that I could not possibly believe.

I'm still struggling with the thought that the car would have smelled that bad.

As someone mentioned upthread, there have been many cases where a parent forgets to drop the child off at daycare, and at the end of the day returns to daycare to pick them up. And the poor deceased baby has been in their car all the while.

I don't think usually LE jumps up and says that their car reeked so bad they must have known.

I am very interested in further information directly from LE, and the ME about what the car must have smelled like. Even when kids are found dead in a trunk of a car after 18 hours or so, cadaver or search dogs don't seem to always find their scent. Googling, decay becomes very noticeable at 2.5 days and reaches peak at about 4-5 days. And that's for adults. Little babies smell sweeter than adults and this one was very small.

 

[tlcya]

Looks like "smell of death' statement was in reports at one time... but has been removed...

ETA...Google Entry....BBM...

The Marietta Daily Journal - Examiner says toddler died ...
mdjonline.com/.../article-Examiner-says-toddler-di...
Marietta Daily Journal
2 days ago - Left in a car in the hot sun, Cooper Harris likely was dead within the first .... the police said even if he did not see the child he had to smell death.

However... when the above link is pulled up... there is no mention of this...

Possibly due to attempt to not impede investigation...avoidance of quick to judge kind of thing?

:dunno:

just wanted to throw this out there. We all should be cautious about something I learned my lesson on. The google search does indeed pull up the Bolded text above. But the business about the smell of death does NOT originate from the article. It comes from the comment section beneath the article.

Search engines do not discriminate between the body of the published doc and the comments beneath it.

So if you google or bing the words Harris heat death smell, you will get all sorts of hits that seem to indicate the article described will contain that text. Notsomuch Like I said lesson I learned the hard way.

I still say where there is this much smoke there is fire. Just waiting for the details to come out in trial.

ETA the comment was made by someone with initials M c and was made on June 26th and discusses a time her father found a dead body and the odor associated and quotes Randy Travis from Fox-5 said police said Harris had to have smelled it. HTH

ETAA sorry forgot to add link to story that searching google associates with the bolded above http://mdjonline.com/view/full_stor...s-toddler-died-from-heat?instance=home_viewed

 

[popsicle]

When I posted that presser link I didn't state anything about statements made in it. I posted it because someone here wanted to see it for the mannerisms and facial expressions etc. fyi

 

[Judicious1]

I do take it as denial. I think if it were true he would have said," we are not prepared to comment on any facts or issues with the case at this point.. Ongoing investigation and such.

Let me know what you find because I am searching my behind off over here too.

If you listen to the part of the conference regarding the question about search he goes into a explanation of warrants obtained yada - wraps up statement with that's speculation. 2 times same officer as alluded to the search as rumor.

 

[momshrink]

I'm trying to catch up with this thread and have read all but the last 100 posts. I have felt from the beginning that this was planned by the father.
I do not believe the father had a psychotic break - psychosis is hearing, seeing, feeling, tasting, smelling things no one else does, i.e. voices, little green men, bugs crawling on your arm, etc. He was functioning in a cover up mode after making decisions trying to make this look accidental - he clearly knew right from wrong and was able to converse with first responders and LE.
I also think the purpose of "putting something in the car" at lunch time was actually to check on whether this child was dead yet.
I think the words in the obit about Cooper talking about cars was to let people know that this child was very verbal when riding in a car. Meaning that he would have been talking and could not have been forgotten.
I think will will learn that Dad did this to hurt Mom - the ultimate pain he could cause her.
I think there are some similarities to Caylee's death. I agree with Spice's posts about this.

None of us know what dark thoughts the "nicest" people may have and none of us really know what we are capable of under all circumstances.

My heart goes out to Cooper's mom. I am so sad for her. Her world is destroyed.

All of this is MOO, JMO, and IMO.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Nope. There is no proof. Especially if you discount the LE leak. And thats okay. But then that leaves us with.....

Just common sense.

3 hours is not 7 hours. However, a diapered toddler enclosed in a sweltering hot car would produce a SMELL, dead or alive. Before Noon. In my opinion, it's magical thinking to state otherwise.

But again if it is normal smell to you, Like when a child wakes up after 10 hours of sleeping with a loaded diaper, it would not be something that seems not normal to you.

I just don't see it as damning. Not yet..

 

[gitana1]

Here is the press conference from Wednesday night.

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/clip/10304268/cobb-presser#.U6xJ0zlkfBY.facebook

Hmmm. There is so much that is confusing. I guess I can see why some may be skeptical of what's going on here. Especially if some of what has been reported is untrue.

For example, in the press conference, the officer refuses to answer whether there were internet searches and merely states information will be released later and that is "speculation". However, the People magazine report has an officer responding to that specific allegation with the statement that he's not sure how such rumors and innuendo get spread.

Reading the downgraded warrant, if that's all I knew, it only suggests that the father was grossly negligent by leaving his kid in the car, and as a result they are charging him with felony murder.

But that is very, very unusual. Sometimes people are charged with second degree murder for leaving the child in a car, but that's usually not instantly and it's always because they knowingly left the child (didn't forget) and were doing drugs or something else somewhere. More typically, they are charged with manslaughter, or felony child neglect, etc..:

Florida man charged with aggravated manslaughter after forgetting infant girl in truck all day: http://www.clickorlando.com/news/da...aby-left-in-car-rockledge-police-say/26587552

Virginia woman charged with felony child neglect after leaving child in car while she braided someone's hair. (Kid died after her head got trapped in the window, not from heat). http://wtvr.com/2014/06/20/tabitha-inge-arrest/

Arizona man charged with second degree murder for intentionally leaving infant in car while he worked. Initially, he left the car running, with the air conditioner on but after lunch, he turned it off, thinking the car was cool enough and wanting to spare his car's engine: http://www.kpho.com/story/23494938/father-facing-murder-charge-after-son-left-in-car-dies

Arizona man charged with manslaughter and child abuse after forgetting his son while he smoked pot and drank beer for 3 hours: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...baby-dies-hot-car-jamison-gray_n_3842428.html
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ntenced-death-son-left-hot-car-abrk/11093747/

Dolgeville NY case - child died on 6-4-14, in hot car, left there by father while he went to work. No charges yet. "Carpenter said any charges stemming from the infant’s death, which was ruled accidental, were still under investigation. Jack Keller, Jr., Troop D public information officer, said Dolgeville police were called to 10 Ransom St. at around 2:47 p.m. Wednesday after it was discovered the girl had been left inside a black Chevrolet sports utility vehicle parked in her grandfather’s driveway for approximately seven hours. He said the case was turned over to state police. “The parents are devastated,” Keller said Wednesday. Police said it appears the father accidentally left the infant in the vehicle after getting ready and leaving for work in a different vehicle. He said state police have seen similar cases where a child has died after being left in a vehicle. Highs in Dolgeville reached into the low 70s on Wednesday. “It’s a tragedy for the parents and the family,” said Keller. “They’re devastated at something like this.” http://www.cnycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=1053592#.U634mkAXr-4
http://www.herkimertelegram.com/article/20140606/News/140609540

San Jose CA man accidentally left baby in car all day while he worked. "The father went to work and just forgot that the infant was in the car," said San Jose Police spokeswoman Sgt. Heather Randol. "It's a tragic situation for that family and the community. I can't imagine what that family is going through." http://www.mercurynews.com/bay-area-news/ci_25586224/san-jose-police-infant-dies-after-dad-forgets
As of April 28, 2014, there was no decision as to possible charges and it looks like there never were any: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...ther-left-him-in-hot-san-jose-car-identified/

SC man charged with unlawful neglect of a child after his baby died in hot car parked for hours outside a business: http://www.wfmynews2.com/story/news...th-carolina-hartsville-darlington-sc/8901899/

Virginia mother charged with felony child neglect after she accidentally left baby in hot car all day while she worked. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...256e82-e64b-11e2-aef3-339619eab080_story.html

So what's the deal here? I have researched and have found nothing to indicate there is a political situation that would call for a man who accidentally left his baby in a car to die, would be charged with such a serious charge as felony murder. I haven't even seen that with cases where the parent intentionally left the kid in the car, knowingly, to get high or whatever.

Felony murder is the harshest charge I have ever seen for this kind of case and the harshest charge Georgia can level at Rob Harris for not intentionally killing his child: http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/the-crime-of-felony-murder-in-georgia


And then there is this:

“I’ve been in law enforcement for 34 years. What I know about this case shocks my conscience as a police officer, a father and a grandfather,” said Cobb County Police Sgt. Dana Pierce. http://wreg.com/2014/06/25/source-d...-die-in-hot-car-before-child-left-in-hot-car/

No, there is more to this case. Much more. And it appears to point directly to dad.

 

[Linda7NJ]

The link is in thread #2 Not too far from the end. Also, LE leaked that info, and according to Gitana, a verified attorney, its a fact that LE leak information as common practice. Further Common sense demands it.
The point is, according to LE, it REEKED at 4:00 p.m. Yet he still left the parking lot and drove one mile. I believe it reeked as well at noon.

I'm sorry. To even consider that the car did not smell out of the ordinary with a toddler in diapers, and likely dead for hours in the sweltering heat is not something I am buying.

Defies all logic and common sense.


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[popsicle]

I'm still struggling with the thought that the car would have smelled that bad.

As someone mentioned upthread, there have been many cases where a parent forgets to drop the child off at daycare, and at the end of the day returns to daycare to pick them up. And the poor deceased baby has been in their car all the while.

I don't think usually LE jumps up and says that their car reeked so bad they must have known.

I am very interested in further information directly from LE, and the ME about what the car must have smelled like. Even when kids are found dead in a trunk of a car after 18 hours or so, cadaver or search dogs don't seem to always find their scent. Googling, decay becomes very noticeable at 2.5 days and reaches peak at about 4-5 days. And that's for adults. Little babies smell sweeter than adults and this one was very small.

Seriously?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

“I’ve been in law enforcement for 34 years. What I know about this case shocks my conscience as a police officer, a father and a grandfather,” said Cobb County Police Sgt. Dana Pierce. http://wreg.com/2014/06/25/source-d...-die-in-hot-car-before-child-left-in-hot-car/

No, there is more to this case. Much more. And it appears to point directly to dad.

That quote from cobb bothers me a lot. There was no need for it. It is just trying to get everyone upset and start the hunt. He really should have said nothing more than there is a current investigation.

I don't know if I believe anything more at this point. I just am not sure. But this kind of commenting helps nothing IMPO.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

The internet search and the smell of the car are NOT rumors!
LE (in the People article) didn't even come close to denying the internet search.
MOO.

Why are people acting like this is the first case they ever followed? Hello?! LE leaks info all the time, and most, if not all of it comes to fruition.

So, instead, a well-respected reporter for 20 years was just bored and made up these 2 tidbits that he said he got from not one, but two officers--because he was bored? GMAB

The are both facts to me. IMO

Good points...

additionally... We as WSers can choose to accept... Or not accept... Some information...

However... I have learned from very experienced Sleuthers that they keep these "tid-bits" in the back of their minds... Or somewhere... And bring them forward at later stages when the "tid-bits" have meaning in fuller context...

Yes... LE leak... Then remove... Information at times...

they have their reasons...

but... IMO it doesn't hurt to keep them locked away in the mind, on the computer, or in notes for a later time...

ALLL JMO...

 

[Linda7NJ]

I'm trying to catch up with this thread and have read all but the last 100 posts. I have felt from the beginning that this was planned by the father.
I do not believe the father had a psychotic break - psychosis is hearing, seeing, feeling, tasting, smelling things no one else does, i.e. voices, little green men, bugs crawling on your arm, etc. He was functioning in a cover up mode after making decisions trying to make this look accidental - he clearly knew right from wrong and was able to converse with first responders and LE.
I also think the purpose of "putting something in the car" at lunch time was actually to check on whether this child was dead yet.
I think the words in the obit about Cooper talking about cars was to let people know that this child was very verbal when riding in a car. Meaning that he would have been talking and could not have been forgotten.
I think will will learn that Dad did this to hurt Mom - the ultimate pain he could cause her.
I think there are some similarities to Caylee's death. I agree with Spice's posts about this.

None of us know what dark thoughts the "nicest" people may have and none of us really know what we are capable of under all circumstances.

My heart goes out to Cooper's mom. I am so sad for her. Her world is destroyed.

All of this is MOO, JMO, and IMO.

Sadly, I agree.


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[Judicious1]

Anyone remember if a witness administered CPR before police arrived? Wouldn't they have smelled an odor? So confusing.

 

[hopingicanhelp]

Seriously?

Couldn't agree more -- "soiled diaper" ESPECIALLY after they have started on solids is not a sweet smell. Add in the heat and the time lapse and that ALONE should have signaled something...at the very least must have made Harris notice a smell when he went out to his car at lunch.