GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #6

[newone]

Drop-side cribs were banned in the US after 30 babies died. But somehow car manufacturers may ignore the fact that 619 (!) little ones have died when left in over-heated cars, when installing a safety system would be so simple.

If I understood some of the issues with some cribs it was design ''flaw'

huge huge difference......no defect in the car manufacturer -but operator failure.

 

[matou]

answer doesn't match the question -- I hate that....

Oh there was a separate question of whether the parents were in any financial trouble.

 

[RANCH]

Drop-side cribs were banned in the US after 30 babies died. But somehow car manufacturers may ignore the fact that 619 (!) little ones have died when left in over-heated cars, when installing a safety system would be so simple.

What's the simple safety system?

 

[MsMarple]

If JRH also searched for gadgets to help parents avoid forgetting their kids in a hot car or searched off a link about a recent local child's death in a hot car or something that would show an innocent search, wouldn't he have included that in his statement to LE?

I sure the heck would have. As it stands in the warrant it's pretty suspicious. It may not speak to motive but it does imply intent.

MOO

 

[matou]

Case on Dr. Drew now.

 

[JeannaT]

What's the motive in Munchausen by Proxy?

Motive

He doesn't want kids

The motive in Munchausen's by Proxy is to get the focused attention of a LOT of medial professionals, and to appear capable and smart - smarter than the medical professionals.

Parents with Munchausens don't want to kill their children. They want to gain attention through them. And they don't care one little bit if their kids suffer horribly along the way.

But I don't understand the rest of your post. Are you accusing him of Munchausen's by proxy? They don't purposely kill their children and then try to pretend it's an accident. Although sometimes that's the unforeseen consequence. Not the intent.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I can understand that. However I must admit that I wonder if the frustration I'm feeling over "the motive" discussion is at all similar to what prosecutors face when deciding whether or not to try a case these days.

We live in a time of advanced technology -- DNA, ballistics, etc... Cases without any of that are extremely difficult to try because people want "The Smoking Gun," or in absence of that, they want a clear motive.

This will be a circumstantial case (unless direct evidence comes to light in the future). It is also a felony murder case -- which means that he may have not meant to KILL the boy, but he was acting in such an irresponsible (aka neglectful/abusive) fashion that would have been prosecuted standing alone with or without the death of the boy (if discovered).

First the case and the evidence -- WHY must we require that smoking gun when every bit of circumstantial evidence when ADDED TOGETHER forms a huge, neon arrow pointing to NOT an "accident"?

Motive? There are famous cases with NO clear motive -- it was up to the prosecutor to try to figure it out & explain to the jury.

I imagine in THIS case, a good prosecutor could open and close with something similar to this:

Ladies & gentleman of the jury, I have no clear motive to present to you. There is no smoking gun. This case requires you to put the pieces of a puzzle together. One piece on its own means nothing -- it's the entire picture, when all the pieces are in place, that proves guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. When the defendant had JUST SEARCHED hot car deaths in the days prior, you would think it would be fresh on his mind. He forgot his child after Chick-Fil-A, within minutes -- less than 5 to be exact. He didn't remember in the morning. He didn't notice him when he went to his car in the middle of the day. He didn't remember in the afternoon. He didn't remember until he was on the freeway after work. He didn't notice a smell that was noted by officers on the scene. He claimed his child was choking. One piece by itself... horrible, unfortunate accident. All together? NOT an accident. WHY was the child left in the car? We don't know. But he was left there -- as we've established, it's doubtful he was truly "forgotten" -- and he died. Dad may not have wanted him to die, but he is dead as a result of negligence. Gross negligence/abuse that results in death = felony murder, beyond a reasonable doubt.

They have a case, IMO

We don't know if it will be a felony murder case when all is said and done. The evidence has to all be weighed and measured before trial and things change before then.

It is still an accident to me. I don't see proof of intentional murder.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

If JRH also searched for gadgets to help parents avoid forgetting their kids in a hot car or searched off a link about a recent local child's death in a hot car or something that would show an innocent search, wouldn't he have included that in his statement to LE?

I sure the heck would have. As it stands in the warrant it's pretty suspicious. It may not speak to motive but it does imply intent.

MOO

He could have but that would not help their case so they would not be searching specifically for that.

 

[NancyA]

If I remember - the windows on the vehicle were up in the photos from the scene. I wonder if they were up when he pulled in (closed car blasting air conditioner)

Seeing as the odor conversation has renewed itself, if there was an odor as has been reported in MSM, was he dirving around with windows up blasting the air conditioner to keep himself cool with the odor for that ten minute drive from the office to the pizza joint where he pulled in after remembering FINALLY Cooper?

If there was such an "overwhelming odor" (not my words - from the reports) why in heaven would he not have had the windows down AND the air blasting to try to get some of the odor out. How could he DRIVE like that? For ten minutes? With windows up?

I wonder if they were up when he pulled in or were rolled up later to preserve any said odor that was left in there.

Often odors you think you've cleared by airing out can build up very quickly again especially in an enclosed hot space. I gave up smoking two years ago yet I an still smell smoke in my car when I first get in it after it's been standing a while and that despite repeated valetings, and driving with windows open frequently.

And speaking of smoke I'm done for this evening. My home is slap bang in an area centered between two currently blazing wildfires in South San Jose and while neither we nor our home are in any immediate danger we are told, the air quality here is very bad and my husband has asthma so we are self-evacuating for the night.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

They reported that they were told by both parents that they searched. I still haven't seen it independently verified.



And also, why do you need to search how hot the car has to be for death? Is any amount of time in a car alone acceptable? Did they really need to research (both being from the hot south) how hot the car needs to be for death?

How hot?? That was the search. Don't understand it. He didn't search 'how to prevent child deaths in hot cars'.

I do. I think that many people don't know that a 70 degree car in the sun and with the windows rolled up can be like an oven in a few mins.

I can totally see the search without any evil intent.

 

[doubt]

In previous thread, JeannaT asked:

Is there no one else who is surprised or dismayed that a person could be executed for a crime they didn't realize or didn't intent to commit?

I am surprised and BEYOND dismayed at this. i am heartbroken and confused by it and a million other things.

 

[RANCH]

What's the motive in Munchausen by Proxy?

Motive

He doesn't want kids

Is there any evidence of Munchhausen's or that JRH doesn't want kids?

 

[lonetraveler]

I don't think an odor would have jarred my memory. I don't think I would go from GOOD GOD it smells in here, to therefore my child must be dead.

I might think a cat had crawled up in there, a diaper was left, something.

It seems in retrospect that an odor is obviously the deceased child, but that's because we know how this ends.

Sorry but the moment I read the bolded above all I could think about was Casey Anthony's excuse for the horrible stench in her car. She told friends that a "dead" squirrel had crawled under her car and died. :facepalm:

 

[SmartSassyBBW]

Maybe I have watched too many crime dramas( I have!) in which death notifications are done in person. I can't wrap my head around a cop encouraging someone to give a child's death notification to their spouse over the phone.MHO

 

[fruity]

I've searched the Internet for some pretty hairy things but never once have I coincidentally accidentally killed someone soon after by doing the thing I was researching.

Until now I have never heard of a case where that coincidence has happened. All of the times (that I'm aware of) where someone has searched a crime and how to commit it, the resulting death was deliberate. Happy to be corrected with proven cases.

 

[octobermoon]

Pure speculation, wonder if he also searched for possible penalties/jail time for leaving a child in a hot car?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Maybe I have watched too many crime dramas( I have!) in which death notifications are done in person. I can't wrap my head around a cop encouraging someone to give a child's death notification to their spouse over the phone.MHO

That bothers me a lot.

 

[lonetraveler]

Is there any evidence of Munchhausen's or that JRH doesn't want kids?

Horrible to think but maybe they just needed a down payment for a house and thought that they could get rid of Cooper and that they could just have another baby later on. Terrible I know. Maybe I've been following crimes way too long. The mother's statement about not wanted Cooper back in this world really, really bothers me. IMO this statement is the worse one yet.

 

[RANCH]

Horrible to think but maybe they just needed a down payment for a house and thought that they could get rid of Cooper and that they could just have another baby later on. Terrible I know. Maybe I've been following crimes way too long. The mother's statement about not wanted Cooper back in this world really, really bothers me. IMO this statement is the worse one yet.

How does getting rid of Cooper create a down payment for a house?

 

[EGirl]

I do. I think that many people don't know that a 70 degree car in the sun and with the windows rolled up can be like an oven in a few mins.

I can totally see the search without any evil intent.

IMO, the only reason you need to know what temp leads to death is if you intend to leave someone in the car.

I don't care if it's 40 degrees outside, you don't leave a child in the car.

There is no safe temp IMO