GA - Apalachee High School shooting, 4 dead, 9 injured, Winder, Barrow County - 04 September 2024 *father and son arrested*

[Breezie]

I don't know if Mr. Gray's rocking back and forth at the hearing are a sign of his anxiety or a sign of a drug addiction or both. jmo

It could be anxiety. He probably hasn’t slept well or eaten well since he was arrested. It could be that he is isn’t feeling physically or mentally well right now.

 

[fred&edna]

When I look at CG's family, I see many families like ones I work with in schools over the last 10 years. Families torn apart by substance abuse, physical and mental health struggles, and more. I see how this families struggles were hidden, and not addressed (despite MANY referrals to CPS over the years from family and community members and most likely school staff who are mandated reporters). But now? Now every resource in the book is going to be leveraged, and this teen and likely father are going to be taken care of for the rest of their lives.

If we would just use all these resources BEFORE things get to this point, how many lives could we save? And I'm not just talking about the people murdered, but about the lives lost to poverty, addiction, abuse, and massively underfunded schools and lack of real health care. As a nation, we really drop a lot of balls, and then suddenly there is the money when the unthinkable horror occurs and innocents are killed and many more traumatized for life. Preventive measures are WAY cheaper. And more effective.
All MOO>

I agree and still believe in that phrase, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"

I do have lots of questions, though. (Not for argument but for consideration) Does the US have any (at all) functioning facilities that really address these families in need of help for addiction and/or mental illness? What happened to the money that was spent on those medium and long-term care facilities the US once used to support? Would similar facilities actually work today and would most taxpayers agree to funding?

 

[MollyDDD]

He is a minor so the death penalty isn't on the table, nor is life without parole. Actually, a life sentence is not likely either.

Thank you.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Absolute tragedy. Getting shot down in a place of education... My most cynical thought is that the news cycle will be talking about the next school shooting soon. Is the answer to prosecute the parents? I'm 100% in favour of prosecuting anyone who provides them with guns, but there needs to be urgent solutions for this epidemic. My thoughts to all the victims and their families...

All MOO

dbm

 

[Breezie]

Georgia school shooter seen posing with AR-15 a year before tragedy

New footage shows suspected school shooter Colt Gray with blood on his face and posing with a deadly AR-15 rifle a year before he opened fire, with his dad branding it the 'greatest day ever.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

This is a right of passage for some families. Would this have happened if he had grown up in a family that left apples out to feed deer wandering through their yard?

 

[statt#1]

I'm beyond excuses for murder. A murderer is just that, a murderer. The family history makes little difference to me, it is the young man here who acted, who pulled the trigger. I know there are many who disagree, I was in the field for 25 years, often hearing the oft repeated tried and true...he was bullied, his mother and father were druggies, he never had a chance, if it's in the dogs....it's in the pups, apple doesn't fall far from the tree, no services, etc. etc.

Well, I'll opine...this kid was offered services, I'd wager more than once. My opinion is he is/was well known to the guidance counselors, teachers, local LE, heck, the FBI was at his home.

If you go out and buy a box of Betty Crocker cake mix, and put it on the counter, get up the next morning, do you have a cake? No. You have to take some action, open the box, follow the directions, bake the cake. Same goes for therapy and counseling...a family, and in particular, this young man, would have had to accept it. The really sad part is, even assuming there is inpatient treatment, counseling, therapy, group sessions, visits from C&Y, JP involvement, ad infinitum...even assuming all social agencies have been involved for years, there remains no guarantee a young man won't make the choice to kill.

That's what this young man did. He chose to kill. He's a murderer.

In my opinion his father is guilty of gross negligence, but not murder. The courts may find otherwise, like I said, that's my opinion. If this young man had taken a butcher knife to school and stabbed to death 4 students, would we be having the same discussion relative to the father? So many questions arise for me, I'm a thinker

We must prevent the weapon from entering the school building. For me, it's as simple as that.

Over 25 years, in direct one on one conversation with countless youth, aged 7 to 21, I would ask....do you know right from wrong. Every. Single. Time.....the answer was, yes. Every time.

It's a good topic, and discussion is healthy. I've had my share of debate on the matter with countless professionals over an entire career. Choices have consequences, and I'm of the opinion this young man made the choice to kill.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The similarities between the Grays and the Crumbleys are eerie. In both cases, the parents allegedly ignored their son’s deteriorating mental health as well as signs he was experiencing violent fantasies. In both cases, the parents gifted their son a gun despite clear warning signs, and despite it being illegal in both states for minors to purchase the kinds of weapons they received. In both cases, authorities found evidence after the shooting that the shooter had kept writingsexpressing violent ideation.

The cases highlight the complex factors that lead to teen violence and the frustrating weaknesses of the systems that are meant to prevent it within a permissive gun culture. In the Crumbleys’ case, the school district failed to prevent the shooting, in part because they failed to search the shooter’s backpack to locate the gun he had with him the day of the shooting, but in large part due to his parents’ unconcern despite the school’s repeated attempts to alert them to their son’s escalating behavior. In the Grays’ case, law enforcement was unable to do anything about the online threats other than talking to Gray and his son — a conversation that apparently left no serious impression on the father, given his subsequent gun gift.

While it’s impossible to know how many families heeded this warning and stepped in before their child escalated to violence, we now have yet one more example of a worst-case scenario: A father who didn’t just dismiss but allegedly enabled his son’s gun fixation.

The decision to hold Gray responsible, not just for involuntary manslaughter but for second-degree murder, arguably reflects Georgia prosecutors’ belief that this shooting could have been prevented had the alleged shooter’s parents kept the weapon out of his hands. Hopefully, in the wake of Gray’s arrest, even more parents will take notice.

The precedent-setting push to hold parents responsible for school shootings

Colin Gray has been charged in connection with his son’s school shooting. Jennifer and James Crumbley were convicted for similar roles earlier this year.

www.vox.com

 

[keek]

I'm beyond excuses for murder. A murderer is just that, a murderer. The family history makes little difference to me, it is the young man here who acted, who pulled the trigger. I know there are many who disagree, I was in the field for 25 years, often hearing the oft repeated tried and true...he was bullied, his mother and father were druggies, he never had a chance, if it's in the dogs....it's in the pups, apple doesn't fall far from the tree, no services, etc. etc.

Well, I'll opine...this kid was offered services, I'd wager more than once. My opinion is he is/was well known to the guidance counselors, teachers, local LE, heck, the FBI was at his home.

If you go out and buy a box of Betty Crocker cake mix, and put it on the counter, get up the next morning, do you have a cake? No. You have to take some action, open the box, follow the directions, bake the cake. Same goes for therapy and counseling...a family, and in particular, this young man, would have had to accept it. The really sad part is, even assuming there is inpatient treatment, counseling, therapy, group sessions, visits from C&Y, JP involvement, ad infinitum...even assuming all social agencies have been involved for years, there remains no guarantee a young man won't make the choice to kill.

That's what this young man did. He chose to kill. He's a murderer.

In my opinion his father is guilty of gross negligence, but not murder. The courts may find otherwise, like I said, that's my opinion. If this young man had taken a butcher knife to school and stabbed to death 4 students, would we be having the same discussion relative to the father? So many questions arise for me, I'm a thinker

We must prevent the weapon from entering the school building. For me, it's as simple as that.

Over 25 years, in direct one on one conversation with countless youth, aged 7 to 21, I would ask....do you know right from wrong. Every. Single. Time.....the answer was, yes. Every time.

It's a good topic, and discussion is healthy. I've had my share of debate on the matter with countless professionals over an entire career. Choices have consequences, and I'm of the opinion this young man made the choice to kill.

Once his head went there it was all in. Yes. Horrible neglect,fear and all the sick experiences that a baby growing up with as it looks like he did, can end up at only 14 yrs old, where 4 lives were lost. His head went there and others do not. Choices.

 

[keek]

To say his father gave him this opportunity to act as he felt, beyond horrific as was not an out of nowhere act going by the reports and knowledge of the father regarding his son.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Secure storage laws prevent unauthorized access by children by requiring gun owners to lock up their firearms. The strongest systems have consequences for any failure to secure a gun. Less-strong policies, sometimes called “Child-Access Prevention (CAP) laws,” penalize gun owners only if a child actually gains access to a firearm. While some state laws are concerned only with the threat of child access, others also include consequences if an un-secure gun is likely to be obtained by an adult who is legally prohibited from possession. A full discussion on Secure Storage is here.

In Georgia, the timeline that Gray allegedly gave to prosecutors puts his gift weapon purchase just months after investigators questioned the father and son about reported online threats of a school shooting.

Secure Storage or Child Access Prevention Required

Secure storage laws prevent unauthorized access by requiring gun owners to lock up their firearms. States should require secure storage of firearms.

everytownresearch.org

As of now, however, the director of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation has framed the case as one of a parent "knowingly allowing his son to possess a weapon." But another major difference between the Georgia case and the Michigan case is that the Georgia case involved a rifle while the Michigan case involved a handgun. The differences in weapons matter legally. Because handguns are more susceptible of criminal misuse, federal and state laws more tightly regulate the possession of a handgun by a minor. In general, it is unlawful for a minor to possess a handgun. There are exceptions (e.g., target shooting and hunting), but many states additionally require that, even then, adults directly supervise minors. In contrast, federal law does not prohibit minors from possessing rifles and shotguns, nor do many states (including Georgia). Unlike with handguns, it is more common to permit minors unsupervised access to rifles and shotguns for hunting and target shooting.

But most states treat rifles and shotguns as a class, and do not separate rifles by type. Georgia is among them.

It is also unclear exactly how the Georgia child gained access to the firearm. A parent can also be liable for the acts of his child if he negligently entrusts a dangerous instrumentality to his child. The particular facts will likely be highly significant. Did the parent in this case consent to his son having possession of the rifle? Or did the child take the rifle without permission?

Prof. Robert Leider (GMU): Are Parents Responsible for School Shootings Committed by their Children?

I'm delighted to be able to pass along this item by Prof. Leider, who is an expert on criminal law: On Wednesday, an all-too-familiar tragic scene played

reason.com

 

[texaslb218]

I had no sympathy for Ethan. I have no sympathy for Colt. Both are murderers. Both are dangers to society. I understand that many/most will disagree with me. I don't trust rehab. I believe society will be safer with them off the streets. IMO MOO. BTW.....retired admin educator here. I KNOW!..

 

[MollyDDD]

But...
isn't it strange that it was brought at all?
It seems like a kind of blunder IMO.

That’s what I was wondering about. Why would, whoever reported it, even say that!

 

[Inthedetails]

I had no sympathy for Ethan. I have no sympathy for Colt. Both are murderers. Both are dangers to society. I understand that many/most will disagree with me. I don't trust rehab. I believe society will be safer with them off the streets. IMO MOO. BTW.....retired admin educator here. I KNOW!..

I doubt many have sympathy for murderers.

An interest in how the murder became a murderer and understanding the situation is NOT the same as having sympathy for a murderer.

jmo

 

[Breezie]

Discord account linked to Georgia shooting suspect referenced Sandy Hook shooter, CNN says

The account reportedly 'expressed frustration that transgender people were being accepted in society.'

thenationaldesk.com

In 2023, the FBI received a tip about the account, saying it “had possibly threatened to shoot up a middle school tomorrow.” Investigators linked that account to Gray, but later decided the user could not be "substantiated," CNN reported.

“im committing a mass shooting and im waiting a good 2-3 years,” the account user wrote in one post, according to the outlet. “I cant kill myself yet, cause I’m not contributing anything to culture I need to go out knowing I did.”

A separate post by the account included an image of two firearms. The account user added the caption “I’m ready.”

The account owner also reportedly "expressed frustration that transgender people were being accepted in society," according to CNN.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I don't have the time now to look and see if Peter was already posted.
So..here we go.

 

[Leopard]

MOO - Teens have been bleaching, cutting, dyeing, spiking, and otherwise finding ways to change their appearance as a form of control over their changing bodies for decades, if not centuries. I think suggesting CG was trans or gay, like many of his bullies supposedly did, is inappropriate.

 

[LadyL]

The suspected shooter was a brand new student, and yesterday was his first "real day" of class, Barrow County Sheriff Jud Smith said.

“He was a brand new student to Barrow County Schools, he had enrolled about two weeks prior. This was his second day at school. He had been before, he left early, on that day and this was his first real full day,” Smith said referring to the shooting yesterday. Aug. 1 was the first day of school for the district.

Prior, the suspect had been at a local middle school, Smith said. According to the Jackson County Sheriff’s Office incident report from 2023, Colt Gray had previously attended Jefferson Middle School and prior to that West Jackson Middle School…

When asked if the shooting was preventable, Barrow County Sheriff Jud Smith said it's hard to say.

The 14-year-old suspect had been investigated following an FBI tip regarding a potential threat to shoot up a middle school last year.

“I feel confident that the FBI, the system worked,” Smith said Thursday.

“They notified local authorities, local authorities went to the house, interviewed him, interviewed his father, they did a report, they did what they were supposed to do, and found that there was no probable cause,” he continued. “Regardless of the situation, all of us have civil rights. He didn’t commit a crime. ... It was unfounded at the time, and so can anything be preventable? I don’t know. It’s hard to say.”

what happened to the witness who said he was chronically skipping class and who said he was a quiet kid with one-word answers

 

[Breezie]

MOO - Teens have been bleaching, cutting, dyeing, spiking, and otherwise finding ways to change their appearance as a form of control over their changing bodies for decades, if not centuries. I think suggesting CG was trans or gay, like many of his bullies supposedly did, is inappropriate.

Believe it or not, the latest teen boy hairstyle trend is called the “Broccoli Cut”.
Just a bit of irrelevant info.

 

[Breezie]

what happened to the witness who said he was chronically skipping class and who said he was a quiet kid with one-word answers

Yes, they said he was a new student and that it was his first full day. He left earlier the day before. Is it possible that he started school with some half days before this? The girl who said it made it sound like he had been there longer. He had been enrolled two weeks before this happened.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/05/us/timeline-georgia-high-school-shooting/index.html

For Lyela Sayarath at Apalachee High, it was Algebra 1.

When the quiet boy sitting next to her got up during the lesson and left, the door closing and automatically locking behind him, Lyela thought nothing of it, she said.

This boy was known to skip class.

But then he came back.

The 14-year-old knocked on the classroom door, and a girl got up to let him back in before jumping back, startled.

The boy had an assault rifle.

Through the small window of the locked classroom door, Lyela saw the boy with the gun turn right toward another classroom, she later recalled.

 

[kaen]

What we are hearing about the lives of the children in Colt's family home is tragic. I am sure that there were potential crimes of abuse or neglect that were visited upon these children given the reports from people who knew them and spoke with MSM. It makes my heart ache.

What was visited upon the people in the school that day is criminal and there is no justification (not that people here are justifying). This young man has committed calculated murder that seems like he had been fantasizing about or planning for a long period of time. Anyone who knew that he was degrading in terms of his mental health has culpability here.