GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #4

[PlainJaneDoe]

With respect, I could not disagree more strongly.
<snip>
Secondly, it is certainly true that a liar doth not alone a murderer make. However, once you accept GBC's very persuasive statements that he is an unremitting, remorseless liar, where does that leave a Court in assessing his reliability as a witness? In civil cases at least, the testimony of such a witness is heavily, if not entirely, discounted.

Yes, yes, exactly! This is what I was trying to say!

PS Good morning, Her Honour. So glad you are sticking around! :seeya:

 

[Trooper]

it is probably more efficient to dispense with anything Gerard says.. he is, by his own insistence, an established and relentless liar, having no truck with the truth on any matter , and a marked preference for lying as a habit and also, as a means to an end.. his general intent is to placate, and who else would one want to placate more than a jury of one's peers, specifically charged with adjudging your words in your trial for murder and interfering with a corpse?? ..

Gerard would have to be, by any logical measure, into Placate Mode Ultra.

Did he or didn't he tell Alison not to go to the conference?? he says he didn't.. does that mean he did? is it important to him to have a jury believe he didn't? if it is, it's likely he is lying.

Did he mean to be free and ready for a new life come July 1st ?? he says no. is it important to him that a jury believe him about this?? if it is, it's likely he is lying.

Did he go to bed and leave Alison watching the Footy show?? he says he did.. is it important that a jury believe he did.?. if so, it's likely he is lying..

Did he have money troubles of the sort that people either kill themselves for or kill someone else for... he says no. .. is it important that a jury believe his business was 'on the rise'.. ?? if so. he is most likely lying.

on the balance of probabilities, and possibilities.. not one word of evidence led by Gerard or supported by his defence witnesses, which is stuff that stems from Gerard to begin with, can be assigned as absolute and unarguable fact. ... will a jury assign weight to elements of Gerards defence which may be true?? and which ones?? and what weight??

and so on. .

 

[KG1]

not that it matters in this trial, but I do wonder where Nige Elaine and Gerard came up with that original paper work to show they , collectively , were worth $100,000,000.00 and had $250,000.00 liquid cash when they 'bought' that franchise..

Hi Trooper, Think you may have a couple of noughts too many there. Lol

 

[Trooper]

Hi Trooper, Think you may have a couple of noughts too many there. Lol

ha!!... * skinny eyed* ... 100... oh yea.. !>.

 

[Freya1977]

<modsnip>

But surely labeling one as a murderer even before the jury has retired is a prime example of what I am trying to say?

As for misrepresenting our financial positions, I do not mean this in a deceptive, fraudulent or even conscious way. How many of you have told the fundraisers who corral you in shopping centres that you don't have any cash on you? How about beggars? What about people who apply for a mortgage in the misguided belief that they have the capacity to meet their repayments should interest rates fluctuate? When you were younger, did you ever tell your mates that you couldn't go out because you were broke simply because you didn't want to go out? These are but a few examples, I could pull out a hundred more and I would be gobsmacked, absolutely astounded, if every adult in this country had not at one point or another lied (or were totally ignorant) about their finances.

Fundraisers: I always buy a ticket if i have some cash on me. I don't tend to carry cash so if i say I don't, it's true.

Beggars: As unbelievable as it is to some people, I'll always give what I can to someone if they ask me. I gave $20 to a guy the other day and he literally cried and hugged me for helping him. We don't all turn our backs and ignore people in need.

Young and broke: nope never used that as an excuse not to go out. If I don't want to I'll say why. If it's because I'm broke then it's not a lie.

Mortgage: well, I think you'd have to be silly to lie about your earnings when it comes to taking out a loan. So no.

Gerards proven deception when it comes to finances is hardly the same as the examples you give. We're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars!

 

[Freya1977]

On what basis is it fraud or theft? Aren't you generalising in exactly the same way you lambasted me for only minutes earlier? Who did he dishonestly gain a benefit from?

To clarify (although I thought I had clarified sufficiently in my early post), what I mean is that I have no reason not to believe that GBC genuinely thought his financial position was not as dire as it seemed to be and that he believed the business was on the way up. Terribly optimistic on his part perhaps, but I didn't see anything untoward in his evidence that was demonstrably false, nevermind criminal (in relation to his finances I mean).

He told Sue Heath that he would go bankrupt without the loan from BF and broke down in tears. He knew full well how dire the situation was. He couldn't pay the bills. And they were piling up FAST.

I honestly just hope the jury isn't as easily deceived into believing he wasn't worried at all about the fact that it was all crashing down around him. He knew it. Of course he knew it.

 

[Freya1977]

Kiwi, what time are you going to line up? I wish I could go, can't believe the timing, have a work event on Tuesday and need all day tomorrow to prepare otherwise I'd be there. I so wanted to make it at least once, very disappointed

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

 

[kiwijayne]

Kiwi, what time are you going to line up? I wish I could go, can't believe the timing, have a work event on Tuesday and need all day tomorrow to prepare otherwise I'd be there. I so wanted to make it at least once, very disappointed

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

I'm going to head in for 8am problem is I can't sleep as feeling a bit sick

 

[Trooper]

He told Sue Heath that he would go bankrupt without the loan from BF and broke down in tears. He knew full well how dire the situation was. He couldn't pay the bills. And they were piling up FAST.

I honestly just hope the jury isn't as easily deceived into believing he wasn't worried at all about the fact that it was all crashing down around him. He knew it. Of course he knew it.

Absolutely he knew.. believing the business was on the up is a demonstrable lie... because he couldn't get a loan to buy out the partners on the Rent Roll matter.. without the Rent Roll he was without income.. He couldn't get a legitimate loan because he had no collateral to stack a loan up against. He didn't have any to offer Flegg. He didn't have any to offer a bank for a business loan. He couldn't even get a Bank Business Overdraft. He had 'plans' to approach other wealthy targets., but they had knocked him back also, probably on the basis that his business HAD NOTHING IN IT.. there was , in fact, no business at all, without the Rent Roll. He had defaulted on the interest payment on the Rent Roll sale and it had reverted back to the partners as per the agreement..

so it is absurd to even propose he thought the business was moving forward.. demonstrably, the efforts he went to in trying to obtain a large cash injection belies his own stated belief.. . what he meant was.. he 'hoped' it would.. that doesn't mean it was, or it would. it merely means he hoped.. hope isn't worth a dry crumpet in the due bills world..

 

[KG1]

The footage of GBC carrying the laundry basket from the home. I can't find it. Any blue checked PJ's can you see?

I don't think so, tgy.

 

[Freya1977]

I'm going to head in for 8am problem is I can't sleep as feeling a bit sick

Awww Damn, well I hope you manage to get a few hours and feel better in the morning. Will be looking forward to hearing all about it!

 

[Freya1977]

Absolutely he knew.. believing the business was on the up is a demonstrable lie... because he couldn't get a loan to buy out the partners on the Rent Roll matter.. without the Rent Roll he was without income.. He couldn't get a legitimate loan because he had no collateral to stack a loan up against. He didn't have any to offer Flegg. He didn't have any to offer a bank for a business loan. He couldn't even get a Bank Business Overdraft. He had 'plans' to approach other wealthy targets., but they had knocked him back also, probably on the basis that his business HAD NOTHING IN IT.. there was , in fact, no business at all, without the Rent Roll. He had defaulted on the interest payment on the Rent Roll sale and it had reverted back to the partners as per the agreement..

so it is absurd to even propose he thought the business was moving forward.. demonstrably, the efforts he went to in trying to obtain a large cash injection belies his own stated belief.. . what he meant was.. he 'hoped' it would.. that doesn't mean it was, or it would. it merely means he hoped.. hope isn't worth a dry crumpet in the due bills world..

Precisely. He knew he'd exhausted all other possibilities......nothing left to do except the unthinkable.

 

[FigTree]

Maybe because it was not just one person.....? Cue twilight music here

I am thinking along that line too (as well other posters comments who think that also).
And I'm thinking it doesn't exclude GBC from being where he is now - accused of murder.

After looking over the evidence...
I can only assume a scenario something like this..
(sorry if its a little repetitive - last post for the night for me )

I think GBC went/snuck outside to talk to someone that evening.
I think he took a phone outside of the house to make or receive a call that night.

Was Allison lured outside after hearing a noise?
Was she surprised by someone outside the house - and this does not exclude GBC at all.
Did someone turn up at the house?
Was there someone coming over?
Was a telephone call in progress
- a quick face to face happening/being organized?


I think Allison was attacked/knocked (fatally) unconscious on the outside her home after waking up from being on the couch.
I think she went outside (possibly) via the back patio door to check a noise and she surprised her attacker and herself.
I think she was subdued quickly and I think it would have been likely to have been a finality in the vicinity of the carport in pitch darkness.

It would not surprise me if GBC went outside & engaged in a phone call that night.
Allison may have recognized Gerads voice and went to investigate.
From his own admission, he was the only adult at the house - this is what implicates him solely.


But, I do think (from the evidence) there was involvement by another person besides GBC, after he attacked her and murdered her.
and, there is more than one person with a strong motive which would be beneficial if Allison suddenly was removed from the picture.


Because the Autopsy Report revealed that Allison had not been dead very long before she was placed under the bridge (deceased a relatively short time) and even the way her body was lying, the autopsy points strongly to the quick disposal of her body after death occurred.
Considering the time it would take to prepare and transport a person to Kholo Creek from the house - I am thinking if she died in the attack, transportation was almost immediate.

And to do that, with some precision and stealth, I think:
Premeditated and set up.
Help from another who was close by who would cover and assist quickly in any way.

If it was proven that there was a time lapse from when Allison was attacked and when she died, I could think then that possibly she was not dead after she was attacked, but died in transportation, or lingered on the brink and was left to die at the house after her attack, and then transported quickly after some plan of removing and staging her 'disappearance' had been worked out (and still, with another persons help). The scenario would give that extra time between witnesses hearing screams and cars being seen - and place some of the timeline evidence in context (to a degree).

- and if you look at the position she was lying in - its just my opinion - but she seemed to be lying in contour to the ground slope with her leg bent and her arms bent. She is not sprawled or upside down - she is lying parallel (basically) to the creek.
Not long after her death, she may have been folded onto the back seat of the car, and when she was placed at the creek, she was still not rigid yet - and had been 'deceased a relatively short time'.
One leg was bent. Her arms caught in her jumper.
She seems to me she may have been rope and tarp-dumped, like she had fallen from a low slung hammock - and that would certainly take 2 people to achieve.

Well, that all just my opinion from what I can work with from the info.

Though, I also think that there must be other evidence around that hasn't surfaced - yet.
- and another phone. Although another phone wouldn't be necessary to make the scenario (from evidence) work - I still believe there is another way GBC had kept secret through which he was communicating (phone).
and to add... (unless its been discredited about where the bags were) I think the pants Allison was changed into and wearing could have been her old maternity pants and were taken from the Charity bags which were in the carport - if not they could have been sourced from somewhere or someone else.
and lastly... I hope they counted all the pages in Allison's journal to make sure none have been removed.

All just my opinion, and a fond goodnight to you all until tomorrow

fftobed:

 

[FigTree]

Snipped by me...

hope isn't worth a dry crumpet in the due bills world..

:floorlaugh:

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

I am sorry if it is annoying to see my delayed reactions to testimony; I just can't hold it in about the Zoloft! (personal and professional experience)

Lol'ing at the toxicologist's comment that Zoloft can change brain chemistry. No joke! I :censored: hope so, since that is its purpose!

Gahhhhhhh

Thank you Judge and Todd Fuller for pointing out that there is an actual difference between the living, functioning body and post-mortem.

 

[they'll get you]

Gerard was so broke he couldn't afford a new razor.

Typical Trooper.
Where did you come up with that Curley statement? Have you been thinking about that razor??
Gillette will have a perfect opportunity for 'Mr smooth as a baby's bum' to do an ad for them. I can see it now.....do an advert or we'll sue.

 

[Judicious]

Yes it's something that has been at the forefront of my mind from the start. If we assume that the toys etc. were scattered in an attempt to divert attention from the blood, GBC obviously knew that the blood was there. Why was there no attempt to remove it? He called police, he must have known that they were going to attend, surely you would tidy up "loose ends" before making the call in case they did respond quicker than anticipated.

Hi JCB, I don't find it unusual that GBC didn't make an attempt to clean the blood. If Allison's body was placed in the Captiva in the dark, even with the interior lights on GBC may not have noticed the blood. Then come morning ( daylight approx. 6am-7am ) he may have made a final check in the back of the Captiva to see that he hasn't left any evidence and then noticed the blood, no time to clean the blood now as the children will be awake any minute....so he quickly puts the toys in the back to hopefully conceal the blood.

 

[ollijack]

Kiwijayne. Good luck today. Don't stress *advertiser censored*

 

[royster]

I hope Fuller is well rested.

 

[Aliwonders]

Yes it's something that has been at the forefront of my mind from the start. If we assume that the toys etc. were scattered in an attempt to divert attention from the blood, GBC obviously knew that the blood was there. Why was there no attempt to remove it? He called police, he must have known that they were going to attend, surely you would tidy up "loose ends" before making the call in case they did respond quicker than anticipated.

For sure he would have wiped away the blood had he realised it was there but he was likely working in the dark and missed it. The toys in the car were a red herring. eg Put these there and the police will see that there was no room to put a body!! It is all about appearances.