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So what serious ties do DM and MS have? Is the idea then, that MS is at the centre of all of it, orchestrating the entire thing and DM is merely a tag a long?

Well, IMO he does seem the more likely of the two. I'm not really sold on the whole OC thing, but DM could have just got caught in the middle of it. His choices would be rat his friend out and go to jail anyway because 'he was there'. Or keep his mouth shut and hope for the best. I just can't fathom why he would purposely point all of the evidence directly at himself. Show his tattoos, use the burner phone in his home area, plant the truck at his mother's house, leave the body on his own property. Even if you don't think you'll get caught, you don't blatantly leave everything pointing to yourself.

JMO
 
I don't think I've ever followed a case where it's been so frequently insisted that the evidence pointing to the arrested party must actually prove he's innocent.
 
I don't think I've ever followed a case where it's been so frequently insisted that the evidence pointing to the arrested party must actually prove he's innocent.

No kidding! I doubt DM thought he was going to get caught, so putting the body on his farm and the trailer/truck at his moms makes perfect sense to me. After all, if he put the body in my back yard and left his trailer and truck in my driveway, I would have called the police right away and they would have caught him in the act!

They found the evidence on DM's properties AFTER they identified him as the prime suspect, not the other way around.
 
Well, IMO he does seem the more likely of the two. I'm not really sold on the whole OC thing, but DM could have just got caught in the middle of it. His choices would be rat his friend out and go to jail anyway because 'he was there'. Or keep his mouth shut and hope for the best. I just can't fathom why he would purposely point all of the evidence directly at himself. Show his tattoos, use the burner phone in his home area, plant the truck at his mother's house, leave the body on his own property. Even if you don't think you'll get caught, you don't blatantly leave everything pointing to yourself.

I can kinda see your point about MS (being more likely to commit a crime as he has previous) but DM sitting in in jail for a long time saying nothing because he does not want to rat his friend out......for MURDER, and allowing himself to be wrongfully framed, hmmm doesn't seem right to me. Perhaps I just live in a totally different world.
 
Here is a quote from MSM regarding Millard's involvement with supplying LB with drugs
Lerner said Millard denied receiving Babcock’s calls until he showed him Babcock’s phone record. Millard then told him that Babcock had developed a drug problem and that he had been supplying her with cocaine for months.

Read more: http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/police-pr...suspect-missing-woman-1.1286814#ixzz2Yml5NwEe
http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/police-probe-link-between-bosma-suspect-missing-woman-1.1286814


And a quote regarding his own use of such substances
“I’m either going to sleep or doing heroin,” the friend quoted Mr. Millard as saying a year ago
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...was-always-a-little-different-classmate-says/

My own reference to vertical limit was meant to mean he had reached a wall and had nowhere to go, but up in his own mind. Pun meaning the maximum altitude at which one can reach before stalling

Can you link that DM had involvement with OC?

I don't regard SL as being a friend of DM...your post said 'friends' not MSM.

I hardly think that a post from someone else (hearsay) re: “I’m either going to sleep or doing heroin,” is something that holds much credibility IMO ... it appears to be in jest IMO.

If I had proof of OC I would not be here sleuthing about it and adding IMO JMO and MOO to my posts.

Thank you for your explanation of your meaning behind 'vertical limit'.... I had visions of it being strangely perverse, thank goodness you sorted that out ..... now I can sleep ;-) :facepalm:
 
I can kinda see your point about MS (being more likely to commit a crime as he has previous) but sitting in in jail for a long time saying nothing because he does not want to rat his friend out......for MURDER, and allowing himself to be wrongfully framed, hmmm doesn't seem right to me. Perhaps I just live in a totally different world.

Maybe they are both patsys ??? anythings possible.... JMO
 
I can kinda see your point about MS (being more likely to commit a crime as he has previous) but sitting in in jail for a long time saying nothing because he does not want to rat his friend out......for MURDER, and allowing himself to be wrongfully framed, hmmm doesn't seem right to me. Perhaps I just live in a totally different world.

I wouldn't either, but we have no idea what he's said and to whom. Maybe it goes back to the question of what exactly is their connection or tie to each other.

JMO
 
Because the Harley was stored in the trailer? So how did the thieves know it was inside then ?

LE doesn't need the physical Harley in the court room photos as exhibits are fine. Well what if the exhibits needed to be verified...what if the jury demanded to see the actual bike...???

Humble guys, with no previous criminal record and plenty of money turn murderers it just involves the right motivation. What is that motivation in your opinion ?

A murderer that mistakenly felt there was no way to tie him to the murder? It's hard to commit another murder in solitary?

How on earth would he assume there were no ties to him IF he did it, with a truck on his mothers driveway and a body on his farm ????

So the chase Yukon wouldn't be seen, because that COULD tie him to the murder?

We have no idea which vehicle was following.... LE has not released the info as far as I can tell.

Why not get TB to pick him up?
I did not say for TB to pick him up I said to meet somewhere other than sellers home... Most people wouldn't be that dumb. Well why not...if you think he is dumb enough to leave a body at his farm and a stolen truck on his mothers driveway ???

The police said they felt he was killed quickly, or soon, in the truck after it left the driveway not the farm. But do they really know that? I think he was killed outside of the truck and not at the farm... JMO

Something stinks alright. Yes it certainly does !!!

moo

My responses are in pink... if pink offends anyone please let me know and I will change the colour for you....thank you
 
Old Today, 09:27 PM
lanman lanman is offline
Registered User Join Date: May 2013
Location: Brantford, Ontario
Posts: 105

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArianeEmory View Post
I don't think I've ever followed a case where it's been so frequently insisted that the evidence pointing to the arrested party must actually prove he's innocent.

No kidding! I doubt DM thought he was going to get caught, so putting the body on his farm and the trailer/truck at his moms makes perfect sense to me. After all, if he put the body in my back yard and left his trailer and truck in my driveway, I would have called the police right away and they would have caught him in the act!

They found the evidence on DM's properties AFTER they identified him as the prime suspect, not the other way around.
Thank-you, the 2 most sensible and logical posts I have read on this thread this evening. (MOO)
 
I wouldn't either, but we have no idea what he's said and to whom. Maybe it goes back to the question of what exactly is their connection or tie to each other.

JMO

Maybe MS sold marijuana.... many people in Canada apparently use marijuana.... I don't personally, but I know that many do IMO Would explain why DM was on MS driveway IMO..in fact I have wondered why DM would have been there and this would be my bet.... JMO MOO
 
I don't think I've ever followed a case where it's been so frequently insisted that the evidence pointing to the arrested party must actually prove he's innocent.

That one little Thank You button just wasn't enough for that one AA.

oh MOO
 
Maybe MS sold marijuana.... many people in Canada apparently use marijuana.... I don't personally, but I know that many do IMO Would explain why DM was on MS driveway IMO..in fact I have wondered why DM would have been there and this would be my bet.... JMO MOO

Apologies if I'm being dense but are you speculating that DM was a pot user, and that MS was his supplier? Earlier in this thread weren't you arguing against the idea that DM was a drug user?

IIRC MS's drug convictions were for possession of cocaine and magic mushrooms. I am curious why you'd speculate (if I'm understanding correctly) that DM was at MS's house for weed, and not something harder which MS was proven, in a court of law, to have had in the past. JMO
 
I apologize for my run-on paragraphs, my teachers always warned me about that!

I would also hazard to guess that if OC wants to put their claws into you or your business, they would probably either get something incriminating on you first, or create something incriminating to stop you from going to the police. Or they could just threaten your loved ones. I don't think that they make it that easy just to go to the police and say 'Some goon from some OC is trying to blackmail me!' Isn't there some saying about what happens to rats or snitches? Although that could fit, WM did end up with a bullet in his head, didn't he?

And to follow that logic, once a loved one has already been murdered by OC, is that really when you would feel confident to go to the police? They followed through on one threat, who knows who they may have threatened to kill next? And they could threaten things worse than death, I imagine. So then isn't the intelligent thing to do to give them what they want, to say protect your mother? Or to delay giving them what they want (by cancelling the MTO certificate) until you no longer have something that they want, and then let them threaten the next owner. Or to change the business so that it is no longer what they want. QUOTE]

rsbm
In this scenario, what good is DM in jail to whatever OC is apparently controlling him or his company? Why not just do away with DM himself, rather than some completely unrelated innocent family man? Seems the idea of framing DM to take the rap for this, this mysterious OC has driven DM into a position to either take it, or spill the beans. Also, how does the MS fit into the grand scheme of everything...JMO



In this scenario, I am suggested that killing the owner didn't work the first time to take control of the company, so a second plan to severely incriminate the new owner was hatched. Perhaps the scheme did not originally plan for DM getting caught by the police, but just to have DM know that the evidence was available to frame him anytime should he not go along with them at any point. But now with DM in custody he may be terrified to speak for fear that the same thing that happened to his father can happen to his mother. Or perhaps he was made aware of the falsified evidence against him before he was arrested, but he is smart enough to know that anything he tells the police now will be twisted to seem like it supports their theory that he did it, while anything he tells them about his framers will be dismissed as a lie. (Which is the meaning of 'everything you say can and will be used against you' and that is why you have the right to remain silent. It is a very important right, for a reason)

Now, in this scenario, OC would have to control a third CEO, MB, but I bet this would be the easiest one to control yet, after all, if she believes you have shot her husband and have planted the evidence that put her son in jail, and could possibly have more evidence to later help him get out if she is co-operative, or conversely enough evidence to see him locked up in the general population where they have people on the inside who could hurt or kill her son, I think she'd be a little more co-operative than the last two CEOs.

And MS, in this scenario would have happened to just literally be along for the ride that night, which might explain his GF's honest looking, in my opinion, extreme shock that was exploited in the media. In this scenario, all that was needed was a random innocent victim that was last seen with DM that could be approached momentarily in a private setting. The rest is stage dressing.
 
No kidding! I doubt DM thought he was going to get caught, so putting the body on his farm and the trailer/truck at his moms makes perfect sense to me. After all, if he put the body in my back yard and left his trailer and truck in my driveway, I would have called the police right away and they would have caught him in the act!

They found the evidence on DM's properties AFTER they identified him as the prime suspect, not the other way around.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, and you too Arianne Emory.
 
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There would be a thing called evidence. It would be direct or indirect. It would be listed in detail on a sworn affidavit before a magistrate, judge or whatever here in Canada just to be able to arrest the suspect(s) for the confinement and for the theft over $5000 and for the murder.

Now, even if the police were overly ambitious, there is this troublesome thing called evidence. If LE has the wrong man, the evidence will support that.

Here's an quote from The Hagmann & Hagmann Report, after 9/11

Investigators understand the value of physical evidence that exists at any crime scene. It has been written that “if you listen to the evidence carefully enough, it will speak to you and tell you exactly what happened. If you don’t know what happened, keep listening to the evidence until you do. The evidence always tells the truth. The key is not to allow yourself to be distracted away from seeing what the evidence is telling you.” BBM

Remember the homeless man, living in a barn down the road from murdered Audrey Gleave? He was the perfect "fall" guy for the crime, but the EVIDENCE didn't implicate him so LE realized that as the evidence was processed further and the Crown let him go.

However, the two Bosma murder suspects are still in jail, because of a sworn affidavit with the initial arrest evidence spelled out. The LE up graded that to murder by the same exact process. They have the correct people or the evidence would show otherwise, resulting in their release. If either two have been set up/framed it will manifest quickly.
moo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archangel7 View Post
Because the Harley was stored in the trailer? So how did the thieves know it was inside then ? Maybe they didn't care and discoved it later?

LE doesn't need the physical Harley in the court room photos as exhibits are fine. Well what if the exhibits needed to be verified...what if the jury demanded to see the actual bike...??? Uh, because the judge has to admit the evidence initially(verify) and by your example, the jury would have to get in the incinerator to evaluate it.

Humble guys, with no previous criminal record and plenty of money turn murderers it just involves the right motivation. What is that motivation in your opinion ? They are numerous but distinguished

A murderer that mistakenly felt there was no way to tie him to the murder? It's hard to commit another murder in solitary?

How on earth would he assume there were no ties to him IF he did it, with a truck on his mothers driveway and a body on his farm ????Another logical fallacy..if the car is blue the engine must be blue. Uh, he didn't think at the time he would be tied to the crime so all that follows reinforces that?

So the chase Yukon wouldn't be seen, because that COULD tie him to the murder?

We have no idea which vehicle was following.... LE has not released the info as far as I can tell.LE reported the Yukon following closely and soon after leaving TB's?

Why not get TB to pick him up? I did not say for TB to pick him up I said to meet somewhere other than sellers home... Most people wouldn't be that dumb. Well why not...if you think he is dumb enough to leave a body at his farm and a stolen truck on his mothers driveway ???see above

The police said they felt he was killed quickly, or soon, in the truck after it left the driveway not the farm. But do they really know that? I think he was killed outside of the truck and not at the farm... JMOYou should call the tip line.

Something stinks alright. Yes it certainly does !!!

moo
My responses are in pink... if pink offends anyone please let me know and I will change the colour for you....thank you

My replies to your replies in blue
 
IMO, and I've said it before, DM is psychotic. Like many people with psychosis, he simply masked it well and it may very well have been exasperated with drug use. Analyzing pic's of DM could show a post 25 DM- many inheritances don't become available until 25. DM, as many other psychopaths are able to get away with crimes because they are successful and have money. JMHO, but his psychosis may have simply got to the stage where he felt a sense of overconfidence and power. He may also be a pathological liar and even though he's never been charged with an offense, doesn't mean that he has never been questioned and released. From my math, the "business" that seems to be at the base of the OC theory was hardly a business-rather it was an attempt by WM to start up a business that would provide DM with a future. For those commenting from within the aviation world, WM's hangar and AMO was a huge undertaking. Would OC really be interested in this? To believe this theory, you'd also have to believe that there was a tremendous amount of money to be made in Aviation-an industry that is extremely financially unstable at the best of times. At the time of WM's death, we have MSM reporting that the family coffers were running critically low and that was a concern for DM. JMHO, the only OC that was going on in DM's head and yes, money was his motive. MOO
 
Apologies if I'm being dense but are you speculating that DM was a pot user, and that MS was his supplier? Earlier in this thread weren't you arguing against the idea that DM was a drug user?

IIRC MS's drug convictions were for possession of cocaine and magic mushrooms. I am curious why you'd speculate (if I'm understanding correctly) that DM was at MS's house for weed, and not something harder which MS was proven, in a court of law, to have had in the past. JMO

I do not believe I argued that anyone was not a user of anything. I have suggested that I do not believe DM had reason to sell drugs...and I still hold that opinion.

JMO...but I do not believe that marijuana is a drug. Sorry but I do not...that is my opinion and quite frankly I am not interested in what anyone thinks of that opinion. MOO

Any naturally growing plant IMO is simply a plant !

Occasionally I see belladonna plants (deadly nightshade) growing in my yard. This plant will kill you, but it grows freely without any criminal element attached to it at all. (the same with many other plants) Therefore when I see a plant that has known and documented medicinal benefits I put it in the category along with aloe vera and such remedies. I do understand that LE likes to profit from this plant and that at this time the plant is deemed to be a drug somehow. I would not frown on DM , or anyone else using this plant for recreational or medicinal use...but I do know that usually people get the plant from someone who is selling it, hence my opinion that DM was going to MS although that is purely just one opinion and not my only opinion.

MS may well have been selling cocaine and who knows who may be using it... my opinion is that this murder is not drug USE connected...but that is just my opinion JMO MOO
 
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