General Discussion and Theories #2

[Eldee]

All those years we owned a Dodge Ram and spent thousands on repairs. Why didn't anyone steal mine? It didn't have that special engine, I guess.
Ok so if these trucks are so desirable, why don't the owners have anti theft systems in them, like GPS tracking in them.
We spend so much money on house insurance, life insurance why can't we spend the extra dime on making sure our trucks aren't stolen. Is it that easy to steal them?

 

[ArianeEmory]

Car thieves have pretty good techniques for either disabling anti-theft systems, or avoiding the ones that have them to begin with.

 

[skatergirl]

All those years we owned a Dodge Ram and spent thousands on repairs. Why didn't anyone steal mine? It didn't have that special engine, I guess.
Ok so if these trucks are so desirable, why don't the owners have anti theft systems in them, like GPS tracking in them.
We spend so much money on house insurance, life insurance why can't we spend the extra dime on making sure our trucks aren't stolen. Is it that easy to steal them?

While GPS tracking may help locate a stolen vehicle, it unfortunately won't stop a murder from happening as is the case here. I know there are systems available when buying a vehicle, such as on-star, which can track vehicle locations etc, may be a piece of evidence in this case? but still, doesn't stop the murder that occurred

ETA-an anti theft system would not have stopped the theft in TB's situation, since he provided keys to the potential thieves under the assumption of the test drive

 

[skatergirl]

Car thieves have pretty good techniques for either disabling anti-theft systems, or avoiding the ones that have them to begin with.

Good point AE, maybe they were not such good car thieves, which is why they came up with the plot of the test drive, so they wouldn't have to mess with the anti-theft system, rather just be handed the keys:moo:

 

[Juballee]

Good point AE, maybe they were not such good car thieves, which is why they came up with the plot of the test drive, so they wouldn't have to mess with the anti-theft system, rather just be handed the keys:moo:

That doesn't really sit with the theory that they were running a chop shop though, since if they had previously stolen so many vehicles successfully, why would they now not know what they were doing?

 

[skatergirl]

That doesn't really sit with the theory that they were running a chop shop though, since if they had previously stolen so many vehicles successfully, why would they now not know what they were doing?

The only other confirmed stolen vehicle was the HD motorcycle, which was stolen contained in it's trailer, which only requires a trailer hitch, no keys or bypassing of an anti-theft device to obtain. If there were other vehicles confirmed to have been stolen, who knows how they were obtained. JMO

 

[swedie]

Perhaps some buds trying to make it appear as though "the real killer" is still on the loose :scared::scared::scared:

Could be. Or they might be carrying on business as usual. JMO

 

[ArianeEmory]

Good point AE, maybe they were not such good car thieves, which is why they came up with the plot of the test drive, so they wouldn't have to mess with the anti-theft system, rather just be handed the keys:moo:

This was actually what was speculated very early on--that they didn't want to deal with the anti theft system and just wanted the keys.

With the Harley, it seems clear someone with a trailer hitch just drove off with the trailer. They also seemed to have a lot of classic cars around, which wouldn't necessarily be retrofitted for anti-theft.

(To be honest, I don't think they were really running a chop shop as a business, I think they just got in the habit of taking whatever they wanted for whatever project/toy they were working on, and it escalated. Maybe they chopped stuff like the HD to trade for other parts.)

 

[Juballee]

The only other confirmed stolen vehicle was the HD motorcycle, which was stolen contained in it's trailer, which only requires a trailer hitch, no keys or bypassing of an anti-theft device to obtain. If there were other vehicles confirmed to have been stolen, who knows how they were obtained. JMO

This is one of the issues with the case that bothers me, if it was a chop shop, as the police have alleged they suspect, it would have had to have been more than one stolen Harley. Also, I think if they were just stealing the cars they were working on for kicks, wouldn't they have been better and less conspicuous about stealing them after so much practice? Or if it was just stolen classic cars, wouldn't someone in LE notice that there had been a rash of stolen classic cars? I also find it hard to believe that WM would have condoned that behaviour in his hanger, so where was the Harley kept between being stolen and WM's death?

 

[swedie]

The only other confirmed stolen vehicle was the HD motorcycle, which was stolen contained in it's trailer, which only requires a trailer hitch, no keys or bypassing of an anti-theft device to obtain. If there were other vehicles confirmed to have been stolen, who knows how they were obtained. JMO

One stolen vehicle is one too many. The fact that a fairly new $35,000, 2010 HD and it's trailer were found in the hangar is a good indication DM and his buddy(buddies) was up to no good IMHO. It shows guilt when it was ripped apart and serial number ground off.

I say we can rely on this information as being legit. I suspect LE would have ruled out those vehicles once belonging to CM before jumping to conclusions of them being stolen also. Good indication would be that they, more than likely had their VIN still intact and LE were able to research them. :moo:

A number of stolen vehicles have been recovered from Dellen Millard’s hangar, Hamilton police have confirmed.

Millard’s lawyer, Deepak Paradkar, was surprised to hear police discussing the vehicles.

“I would have thought that if they’re trying to build a case they would have kept everything as evidence,” said Paradkar. “Crown counsel hasn’t told me about any additional charges.”

Hamilton police wouldn’t get into details of the number and nature of the vehicles. They are still trying to find their owners, but said there are fewer than 10.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...d_from_dellen_millards_hangar_police_say.html

 

[swedie]

This is one of the issues with the case that bothers me, if it was a chop shop, as the police have alleged they suspect, it would have had to have been more than one stolen Harley. Also, I think if they were just stealing the cars they were working on for kicks, wouldn't they have been better and less conspicuous about stealing them after so much practice? Or if it was just stolen classic cars, wouldn't someone in LE notice that there had been a rash of stolen classic cars? I also find it hard to believe that WM would have condoned that behaviour in his hanger, so where was the Harley kept between being stolen and WM's death?

I'm sure DM would have told his father the vehicles, HD and trailer belonged to his buddies or he bought them himself as projects/hobbies. Maybe all the thefts took place since WM death... Seems apparent these stolen vehicles were stolen without the owner present or we probably would have heard something.

So when SA stated DM wouldn't clean up his stuff from the hangar, hope this gives some a better indication as to what a mess there must have been in the hangar. Plus the collection of CM's cars also Not a good way of promoting business IMO. Also about DM not coming into work until after noon. Maybe DM was out late at night scoping out vehicles to steal, not getting home until late and therefore needing to sleep in. :moo:

 

[Snoofo]

This is one of the issues with the case that bothers me, if it was a chop shop, as the police have alleged they suspect, it would have had to have been more than one stolen Harley. Also, I think if they were just stealing the cars they were working on for kicks, wouldn't they have been better and less conspicuous about stealing them after so much practice? Or if it was just stolen classic cars, wouldn't someone in LE notice that there had been a rash of stolen classic cars? I also find it hard to believe that WM would have condoned that behaviour in his hanger, so where was the Harley kept between being stolen and WM's death?

I suspect there were one or two mechanics that showed up to work with "personal projects" to work on. If they brought cars in and just said they purchased them or were doing it for the owners, who would question it? Maybe one unknowingly purchased it from the thieves. More people buy hot cars than there are people out there who steal them.

If there were chop shop-related charges I would think they'd have been laid by now.

 

[redheart]

This was actually what was speculated very early on--that they didn't want to deal with the anti theft system and just wanted the keys.

With the Harley, it seems clear someone with a trailer hitch just drove off with the trailer. They also seemed to have a lot of classic cars around, which wouldn't necessarily be retrofitted for anti-theft.

(To be honest, I don't think they were really running a chop shop as a business, I think they just got in the habit of taking whatever they wanted for whatever project/toy they were working on, and it escalated. Maybe they chopped stuff like the HD to trade for other parts.)

BBM That's exactly my guess. I think the chop shop label makes people think of a big money making business with vehicles pouring in and parts pouring back out, but it was probably a lot more personal than that.

 

[Archangel7]

Hard to "clean up", "clean out" a hanger in order to have pre contract tours when you have to quickly "move" stored stolen property without getting caught.

Kind of double jeopardy... you got away with stealing/moving them once, but do you feel lucky twice? Much less risk to just shut down an MRO you never wanted anyway especially when further motivated by the stolen property issue on site.

Of course this is only supposition and for discussion purposes.

 

[Snoofo]

Hard to "clean up", "clean out" a hanger in order to have pre contract tours when you have to quickly "move" stored stolen property without getting caught.

Kind of double jeopardy... you got away with stealing/moving them once, but do you feel lucky twice? Much less risk to just shut down an MRO you never wanted anyway especially when further motivated by the stolen property issue on site.

Of course this is only supposition and for discussion purposes.

But if one is so very cautious as illustrated above, why would one that recognizes and avoids dangerous risks show up at people's doors for test drives undisguised, and forcibly confine the last car owner and subsequently kill them? Also forcibly confine the car owner whose wife just saw him undisguised. Is this the same person making these decisions? So cautious one day, so reckless the next? And so reckless while he personally is doing the dirty work? I dunno......

I'm not saying it's impossible but it is just another concept that boggles the mind.

 

[Archangel7]

But if one is so very cautious as illustrated above, why would one that recognizes and avoids dangerous risks show up at people's doors for test drives undisguised, and forcibly confine the last car owner and subsequently kill them? Also forcibly confine the car owner whose wife just saw him undisguised. Is this the same person making these decisions? So cautious one day, so reckless the next? And so reckless while he personally is doing the dirty work? I dunno......

I'm not saying it's impossible but it is just another concept that boggles the mind.

I suppose we still have the three existing hypos then, DM meant to kill TB and steal truck, DM was involved in TB's killing but didn't intend to be, or DM was frame/duped, caught up in something else.

Almost all murders are committed by someone known/close to the victim, meaning many of the killers are not worried about ID simply because they think they can mitigate that fact. They usually do that thru attempted evidence destruction or alibi.

Here's some telling info of interest on getting away with murder, and keep the current murder in mind as you read........ http://www.top-criminal-justice-schools.net/murder/

 

[swedie]

But if one is so very cautious as illustrated above, why would one that recognizes and avoids dangerous risks show up at people's doors for test drives undisguised, and forcibly confine the last car owner and subsequently kill them? Also forcibly confine the car owner whose wife just saw him undisguised. Is this the same person making these decisions? So cautious one day, so reckless the next? And so reckless while he personally is doing the dirty work? I dunno......

I'm not saying it's impossible but it is just another concept that boggles the mind.

BBM - Don't you think it would look more conspicuous or suspicious if they did wear a disguise? They probably believed they were just average looking males and no one would be able to positively ID them. MS did have his hood up, that's kind of a disguise IMHO. The description said the taller one was unshaven IIRC. I've seen a picture of DM with scruff but maybe this is not the norm for him. More pictures of him clean shaven then with scruff. He figured being unshaven was a bit of a disguise possibly. DM probably didn't figure anyone would notice the tattoos on his arm, as tattoos seem to be the mainstream trend for people in their twenties these days. You know, everybody and their uncle has them and people just don't really pay much attention to them, unless you're into them yourself, just saying. :moo:

Also, maybe the perps wanted to wait outside for TB as not to be seen by anyone else, but TB insisted they come inside his home. Maybe they weren't inside his home but SB was obviously very observant. MOO

 

[swedie]

I still wonder if TB may have recognized DM during the test drive. TB has a friend who would fly planes out of the Waterloo airport and I would not be surprised if TB and his friend had run into DM at one time or another while at the airport. Maybe he personnally knows DM and borrowed a plane from him? The friend has pictures of TB in a plane. TB being in the trade he was in would have met many people through his business and it's surprising how some people have a keen sense for remembering faces and names. Was TB that type of person, never to forget a face? My hubby is in a trade business also and I am amazed by his recollection of faces, names, addresses and details. MOO

 

[Snoofo]

BBM - Don't you think it would look more conspicuous or suspicious if they did wear a disguise? They probably believed they were just average looking males and no one would be able to positively ID them. MS did have his hood up, that's kind of a disguise IMHO. The description said the taller one was unshaven IIRC. I've seen a picture of DM with scruff but maybe this is not the norm for him. More pictures of him clean shaven then with scruff. He figured being unshaven was a bit of a disguise possibly. DM probably didn't figure anyone would notice the tattoos on his arm, as tattoos seem to be the mainstream trend for people in their twenties these days. You know, everybody and their uncle has them and people just don't really pay much attention to them, unless you're into them yourself, just saying. :moo:

Also, maybe the perps wanted to wait outside for TB as not to be seen by anyone else, but TB insisted they come inside his home. Maybe they weren't inside his home but SB was obviously very observant. MOO

I see, but what I really want to point out is not just the tattoos being revealed with Etobicoke guy, but would it be inconspicuous if DM arrived at the Bosmas wearing a baseball hat or something to partially conceal his hair and face?? How accurately could SB recognize MS compared to DM? Whose identity was better recollected by both SB and Etobicoke man? And most importantly, should surveillance cameras have caught DM and MS together that night, anywhere, at a convenience store or even at the Bosmas very own front porch - who of the two would be positively identified? If MS wore a hoodie (the very baggy kind that is the likely style for someone named Say10 the graffiti artist) that more than covered his head and possibly made a shadow over the face, how positive can anyone be that it is him? Unless they have fingerprints or DNA from that night, he could still argue ever being there. DM on the other hand didn't seem to make any attempt to be low key.

Maybe MS arranged a surprise to be waiting around the corner. And then DM, already thinking he's an accessory just by being there, and also afraid of any lesser evils he may be a part of (minor chop shop, some drugs) is too afraid to go the police. His co-operation could have been a blackmail.

There you have it. A murder, a frame and a blackmail all in one with some other illegal activities peppered in. And if it is, I call "dibs" on writing the screenplay. nline:

 

[swedie]

This was actually what was speculated very early on--that they didn't want to deal with the anti theft system and just wanted the keys.

With the Harley, it seems clear someone with a trailer hitch just drove off with the trailer. They also seemed to have a lot of classic cars around, which wouldn't necessarily be retrofitted for anti-theft.

(To be honest, I don't think they were really running a chop shop as a business, I think they just got in the habit of taking whatever they wanted for whatever project/toy they were working on, and it escalated. Maybe they chopped stuff like the HD to trade for other parts.)

BBM - I agree. They were doing it for *****s and gigs. Got more brave and decided to step it up a notch. Maybe they had tried stealing locked Dodge Rams and were unsuccessful and thought a test drive would be the easier way of getting one.

But what really bothers me is, the fact the seats were removed from TB's truck. Report(s) claim TB was killed inside the truck. Why remove the seats...a bloody mess? That is what I am figuring. So one of the perps was carrying a weapon in MOO. That would show intent of harm or murder wouldn't you think? Maybe the plan was just to show TB a weapon and they hoped he would comply, get out of the truck leaving them to be on their way. I just cannot see TB resisting if they told him to get out because they wanted to steal his truck. I believe he would have had common sense just to let them take it over risking his life. Especially when it was two on one, a weapon possibly stuck in his face, plus he had insurance on it. One of them, if not both perps had murder on their mind from the onslaught in MHO.