General Discussion and Theories #3

[ArianeEmory]

On Thursday afternoon, police found Bosma’s cellphone in an industrial complex in west Brantford – the direction he was last believed to have been heading with the two men.
No other items were recovered, but police said they were able to track the cellphone they believed the suspects used to contact Bosma.
That is how investigators were able to speak with the man in Etobicoke, who told police he thought it was suspicious that the men who arrived at his business to look at his truck were on foot. He was returned to his business after the test drive.
[/I]
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...y_hold_out_hope_for_hamilton_mans_return.html

This reminds me of the lengthy back-and-forth about why DM arrived on foot to the Bosma home. A common defender argument is that it's a long narrow driveway and they couldn't be sure of the ability to turn around. What is the explanation for them arriving on foot to a business?

 

[Juballee]

juballee .... good point about DM's jail suroundings contributing to his deflated demeanor ... and come to think of it , the appearance was by video from jail , which is different than a personal appearance in court.

But I think you are mistaken about his cell phone ... he was "smart enough" to use one that was not traceable to him , he was "smart enough" not to contact the seller by email , he was "smart enough" to turn off TB's phone and toss it out on the roadside , he was "smart enough" to park his own vehicle out of site of the Bosma home , he was "smart enough" not to tackle the big guy on the other test drive , all those things have the aroma of pre-planning , at least as far as the truck theft.

And true enough , like you said , the coverup was maybe done "after the fact" .... could be they were simply planning to toss TB out of his truck and take off with it .... but there are way to many other factors conveniently in place .... an incinerator on a remote farm comes to mind.

We have to admit it was pretty good planning .... and the crime would probably remain unsolved if not for somebody finding TB's phone on the side of the road .... this is what DM did not plan for ..... the phone was linked to a call from DM's covert phone , which led to the first truck seller who noticed the ambition tattoo .... which led to DM .... which led to MB's neighbor to call about the trailer which contained the truck .... and only then did LE realize it was more than a truck theft.

I bet DM is angry about that darn cell phone somebody found in the ditch .... it screwed up his "smart" plan.

I actually don't think it was the pay as you go phone that was his downfall, since LE only had to look at the numbers that called TB that night to find the number that called him, and from there they could obtain the records of the pay as you go phone. Although I don't recall whether or not LE have that phone attributed to DM in custody from what we have been told.

I think that if he had instead contacted TB by email, people would be saying that he was 'smart enough' not to use his phone. I don't think that was a planned thing, personally, it sounds like it could be taken the same no matter which method of contact he had used. How many of us have an email account that is not in our given name, that if we had used it and we ended up a suspect for something, police would say that we were intentionally disguising our identity. If he was just looking to test drive a vehicle, it wouldn't matter to him if he used his phone or email to contact the seller, he would have picked whatever was most convenient at that time, or the method that he thought would get the quickest response, likely, so I think that eliminates the idea that he was 'smart enough' to use his phone.

Again, there are many reasons why someone does not pull into someone's driveway when stopping at a house. Some pizza delivery guys will pull into your driveway, some will not, it doesn't mean one was planning on killing you when he chose where to park, so I think that we can also eliminate the idea that it was a sign of intelligence or planning wherever the vehicle was parked when picking up the test drive vehicle. And since it is only normal not to tackle anyone on a regular test drive, I cannot see how his failure to do so with the RBEG could point to either his guilt or intelligence, so that would negate the idea that he was 'smart enough' not to tackle someone else. For that matter he was probably smart enough not to tackle all kinds of people in his day to day life, it doesn't mean he planned and carried out a murder. Those things put together could constitute some sort of convoluted half-baked plan for murder, or they could much more likely just be the way things happened because there was nothing to plan for, statistically speaking.

Anything that anyone is 'smart enough' to do after a crime is committed is not considered part of planning a crime, it would be part of the clean up after the fact, which again, does not point to intelligent planning, but the opposite, not planning for things and having to wing it afterwards. And if you happen to already own things that may be useful in the cover up of a crime that does not constitute intelligent planning, it only demonstrates being intelligent enough to know what you already have on hand and how it might be useful. I imagine that if someone found themselves with a dead body to dispose of and all that they had was a boat, we could expect that body to be weighted and tossed into a large body of water, but we wouldn't assume that the boat was bought to plan a murder. Nor would we automatically assume that the boat was bought to kill someone else when it was bought earlier. Without the prejudice of already assuming DM is guilty, those things do not in themselves constitute intelligent criminal planning, and what happened doesn't sound like anyone's idea of a smart plan, when there are hundreds of easier ways to steal a truck or kidnap and kill someone no one would notice missing.

And to answer AE, if they realized that not having a noticeable vehicle to show the RBEG was what raised his suspicions, as some suggest, then they would have been sure to have a vehicle that TB and his family could notice so that they wouldn't have raised his suspicions as well. They would have naturally learned what to improve upon after the first failed attempt, if that is what it was. And seeing as how it has been suggested that he had his own chop shop, wouldn't he have access to any number of vehicles that he could have brought with him? He wouldn't have needed to bring one registered to him even. Again, to me, this does not show forethought of planning to commit a serious crime that would remain undetected.

 

[Sillybilly]

And to answer AE, if they realized that not having a noticeable vehicle to show the RBEG was what raised his suspicions, as some suggest, then they would have been sure to have a vehicle that TB and his family could notice so that they wouldn't have raised his suspicions as well. They would have naturally learned what to improve upon after the first failed attempt, if that is what it was. And seeing as how it has been suggested that he had his own chop shop, wouldn't he have access to any number of vehicles that he could have brought with him? He wouldn't have needed to bring one registered to him even. Again, to me, this does not show forethought of planning to commit a serious crime that would remain undetected.

<rs&bbm>

The perps didn't perceive it as a problem at all, thus that aspect of the crime was the same when they went to Tim's. It was Mr. Etobicoke who deemed it suspicious; they didn't know that arriving on foot raised suspicion, and i'm sure Mr. Etobicoke didn't tell that in order for them to recognize it as an issue to be avoided in future attempts.

While I understand this is just general discussion as to whether or not the crime was premeditated, it still comes down to .. it doesn't negate that Tim was alleged to have been confined and died during that confinement; if proven, it constitutes 1st degree murder regardless of whether there was premeditation.

 

[swedie]

Or it could just be that it's hard to sleep in jail. Also, this wasn't an actual court appearance where he would have been able to stand tall and appear confident. I believe that when an appearance is by video, the camera is stationary and tall defendants may have to stoop or hunch over to be seen properly, which could affect how confident they might seem, I suppose.

I have to disagree that this whole crime shows intelligent planning. I think it is actually the complete opposite, because I think that if someone really wanted to kill a random stranger and had all the means and tools and properties available to him that DM has, he would not have: picked a victim that would have been missed immediately, have made an appointment to kill that person using traceable means such as a cell phone, would not have gone to the door and allowed himself to be seen, would not have gone undisguised by even a hood, would have had the victims meet them someplace else, would have had a licensed second driver on hand to transport the second vehicle, would not have killed the victim in the vehicle if they planned on using it further, would have used the incinerator in a place where it could not possibly have been seen by others, and would have also stored it in a far less noticeable place, would have burned the remains to completion, and then would have gone up in a plane the next day and dumped the ashes from the air like you would with a loved one so that there was never a trace, and would have taken the truck to his own personal chop shop if that was really what was going on at the hanger (which I personally still doubt). Even someone with a less than average mind would have been able to plan better to cover this crime with all those means available to them, so I disagree with the idea that this was a crime showing intelligent planning, or any real planning at all. This does not seem even premeditated to me, more like a cover up after the fact.

I think many people will read whatever they want into the smallest details if nothing else is available to them. I really don't see how a sentence about how tired someone might look to one person can be an indicator of the inner feelings another might have, that can then be used to determine their guilt or innocence when read by a third person, in my opinion. Perhaps someone who knew the accused prior would be able to tell us if his whole personality has run into a brick wall since his arrest, but without that actual knowledge of his actual personality,mother and now, we can only make guesses or uneducated assumptions, since all we really seem to know of his personality comes from a few people who might have known him peripherally, as filtered by the media. But I personally think that spending that amount of time in jail, especially as a first time, might take a toll on anyone, I don't really think it is remarkable, let alone an indicator of anything.

One would think after spending almost six months in jail, one would get a little more accustomed to ones surroundings and schedule IMO. Although DM is leading a very simplified lifestyle in jail, I am certain the accusations and truth are mentally, emotionally and psychically stressful on him. This case would consume every waking minute of his life. The fact jail food is bland and minimal, outdoor activity is limited leaving prisoners looking pale and unhealthy, there probably isn't the comfort and serene slumber he was use to within his own home, maybe some taunting/harassing from other inmates, and the thoughts this may be what his life will be for many years to come or the rest of his life, all lead to taking a toll on ones soul and outward appearance. Not to mention IF he was a drug user, withdraw could also factor in on appearance. JMO.

Your thoughts in blue, mine in green. JMO and HTH.
DM would not have: picked a victim that would have been missed immediately,
They had no idea as to how long SB intended to wait for TB's return and figured TB and his truck would no longer be traceable in about an hour or so and knew LE would not be out looking with this short amount of time.

have made an appointment to kill that person using traceable means such as a cell phone,
DM didn't realized a burner phone could be traced back to him, reason why he used a bogus name on it.

would not have gone to the door and allowed himself to be seen, would not have gone undisguised by even a hood,
He may not have figured anyone else but the victim would see him and wearing some sort of a disguise would definitely raised red flags. IMHO a ball cap or a hood does not constitute as a disguise anymore than wearing a jacket kwim. Person's identity is still the same as we found out in MS's ID.

would have had the victims meet them someplace else,
Maybe TB was not open to meeting them anywhere else but his home...

would have had a licensed second driver on hand to transport the second vehicle,
IMO MS drove the second vehicle (Yukon). I do not think when someone is planning on carrying out a crime, they give great thought or consideration as to whether someone is licensed or not.


would not have killed the victim in the vehicle if they planned on using it further,
Possibly TB refused to get out of his truck. OR perps figured they would clean it up; not a big deal to them.

would have used the incinerator in a place where it could not possibly have been seen by others, and would have also stored it in a far less noticeable place,
The incinerator was not noticeable by anyone other then someone who deliberately went looking for it way back there in the secluded bush.

would have burned the remains to completion, and then would have gone up in a plane the next day and dumped the ashes from the air like you would with a loved one so that there was never a trace,

Perps ran into problems which did not allow them to finish the burning. They may have been too paranoid to go back too soon to finish.

and would have taken the truck to his own personal chop shop if that was really what was going on at the hanger

IMO that is where TB's truck was taken that night (hangar) after the murder of TB but again DM was paranoid because on May 8th, the description of him and MS and DM's tattoo came out, the same day he transported his trailer with TB's truck inside, under the cover of darkness, to his mom's driveway. DM believe it was only a matter of time before LE came around wanting to look through the hangar or any other place connected to him.

They couldn't abandon the truck anywhere without it being noticed and their DNA was everywhere in TB's truck. And the crime was committed because the goal was TB's truck, therefore they were not going to part with it. BTW there are may forms of intelligence. DM and MS obviously were not intelligent criminals; at least not in this crime. IF involved in LB's disappearance or WM death; maybe those crimes they carried out with more intelligent and we may never know the truth. All JMO.

 

[MsSherlock]

I actually don't think it was the pay as you go phone that was his downfall, since LE only had to look at the numbers that called TB that night to find the number that called him, and from there they could obtain the records of the pay as you go phone. Although I don't recall whether or not LE have that phone attributed to DM in custody from what we have been told.

I tend to agree with the side that feel the burner phone was a significant contribution to DM's arrest. IMO, even if LE had the burner phone and all of the numbers it contained, there would be no guarantees that the path would lead to DM-especially if he was only using the cell phone for "certain nefarious" activities. Now, if DM had used his regular cell phone or house line, it would be a totally different story.
IMO, there were 3 critical pieces to the DM arrest. 1) Burner phone with TB and RBEG number on it. 2)RBEG being aware enough to notice tattoo on DM's wrist. 3)The friend/family/acquaintance that contacted LE after the release of the tattoo information. The latter is extremely important, because if someone hadn't called DM's name into LE as a man with the described tattoo, there's a possibility that an arrest would have never happened.

As far as DM appearing tired? The surprising element to this is that early on in the case DP did say that DM was a bit of a philosopher and was in for the long haul. That kind of made it sound like DM was a deep thinker, certainly the type that wouldn't have a problem spending an extended amount of time with himself;reading, writing, meditating,praying etc. The fact that he appears tired with bags under his eyes, makes me think that he's alone in that cell with only his ego and has now come to the realization that the haul may much longer than he ever thought and in actuality-his philosophy roots are pretty shallow. IMO, DM did have it all planned out, he just believed that he was too smart and too wealthy to ever have to suffer any consequences. In my books, he gets an "F" all the way around-even in philosophy. JMHO

 

[Archangel7]

Wonder who else has been contacted by that burner phone or knew the number?

It might be a heck of a forensic link, especially if it was found to be relevant to, or known to other deceased or missing persons.........

 

[hopingforjustice]

I
Anything that anyone is 'smart enough' to do after a crime is committed is not considered part of planning a crime, it would be part of the clean up after the fact, which again, does not point to intelligent planning, but the opposite, not planning for things and having to wing it afterwards. And if you happen to already own things that may be useful in the cover up of a crime that does not constitute intelligent planning, it only demonstrates being intelligent enough to know what you already have on hand and how it might be useful.

Kinda like planning to steal a truck but ending up committing murder then realizing you already have an incinerator to destroy the evidence?

JMO of course

 

[Eldee]

It could be very possible as said above, that when TB was told to get out of the truck he refused. Don't they always say never go to the second location as that is where you will most likely be killed? Perhaps the motive was the truck, DM or MS ( whoever was driving the truck ) told him to get into the Yukon which had been following them. TB refused a struggle ensued and TB was killed inside the truck. Now, they had to think fast as this had not been the plan and this is when TB threw his phone out of the truck. Now you have a truck covered in blood and a body and truck to hide. In my opinion, TB certainly threw a wrench in their plan by standing his ground and not leaving the truck. Perhaps if he had his body may never have been found. Just like LB's.

 

[robynhood]

JMO...but must say excellent posts made above.. makes complete sense to me...I agree ( JMO) TB murder was not planned....!....thanks Swede, hoping for justice, Eldee, Archangel7,ms sherock....agree agree , agree...But JMO again...robynhood.

 

[hopingforjustice]

Wonder who else has been contacted by that burner phone or knew the number?

It might be a heck of a forensic link, especially if it was found to be relevant to, or known to other deceased or missing persons.........

My personal opinion is to stay tuned on this thought!

I have felt all along this is bigger than it appears..

 

[cansleuther]

Wonder who else has been contacted by that burner phone or knew the number?

It might be a heck of a forensic link, especially if it was found to be relevant to, or known to other deceased or missing persons.........

The burner phone was purchased in February of this year, several months after WM's suicide and LB's disappearance. It was used primarily in Toronto's west end. Are there any missing persons or unsolved murders in the west end of TO between February and May that stand out as possible links?

Police said Bosma’s phone records also led them to discover that one of the suspect’s had obtained a cell phone under a fake name three months ago, with most calls made in Toronto’s west end. That phone has not been used since Bosma’s disappearance.

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/missing-hamilton-man-s-cell-phone-found-truck-spotted-police-1.1275659

 

[Alethea Dice]

IMO that is where TB's truck was taken that night (hangar) after the murder of TB but again DM was paranoid because on May 8th, the description of him and MS and DM's tattoo came out, the same day he transported his trailer with TB's truck inside, under the cover of darkness, to his mom's driveway. DM believe it was only a matter of time before LE came around wanting to look through the hangar or any other place connected to him.

Just a correction to this. The description of the tattoo did not come out on May 8th, the day that the trailer was moved.

The trailer was moved to MB's house on Wednesday, May 8th, when the hockey game was on, or on Thursday, May 9th, depending whose story you want to believe.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/05/12/tim_bosmas_mom_makes_mothers_day_plea_for_his_safe_return.html

TB's cell phone was found on Thursday, May 9th.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/05/10/tim_bosma_cellphone_recovered_as_police_family_hold_out_hope_for_hamilton_mans_return.html

The description of the tattoo wasn't released until Friday, May 10th, the same day that DM was arrested.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/05/10/tim-bosma-missing-persons_n_3254021.html

Some other thoughts - yours in green, mine in blue.

They had no idea as to how long SB intended to wait for TB's return and figured TB and his truck would no longer be traceable in about an hour or so and knew LE would not be out looking with this short amount of time.

Why would they not think either would be traceable in an hour? Both were still traceable a week later.

Maybe TB was not open to meeting them anywhere else but his home...

If the purpose was the truck, and they didn't want to risk witnesses, why wouldn't they just move on to the next ad, like they did with the RBEG?

The incinerator was not noticeable by anyone other then someone who deliberately went looking for it way back there in the secluded bush.

The neighbours working in the next field found it easy enough. It had been moved, but I don't remember reading anything about them having to go searching for it.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

It could be very possible as said above, that when TB was told to get out of the truck he refused. Don't they always say never go to the second location as that is where you will most likely be killed? Perhaps the motive was the truck, DM or MS ( whoever was driving the truck ) told him to get into the Yukon which had been following them. TB refused a struggle ensued and TB was killed inside the truck. Now, they had to think fast as this had not been the plan and this is when TB threw his phone out of the truck. Now you have a truck covered in blood and a body and truck to hide. In my opinion, TB certainly threw a wrench in their plan by standing his ground and not leaving the truck. Perhaps if he had his body may never have been found. Just like LB's.

Interesting thought. That could potentially get rid of the unlawful confinement charge and thereby, depending on the circumstances, reduce the 1st degree murder charge to either 2nd degree or manslaughter.

JMO

 

[redheart]

Actually, it's still a 1st degree murder charge, even if they told TB to get out of the vehicle.

Forcible confinement: A charge of Forcible Confinement requires only a minimal deprivation of freedom of movement: A person can be charged with Forcible Confinement for any conduct that restricts the liberty of another person – everything from standing in a doorway and refusing to let someone leave a space, to locking a person out on an apartment patio against their wishes. The Criminal Code of Canada states that:

Every one who, without lawful authority, confines, imprisons or forcibly seizes another person is guilty of (a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years; or (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding eighteen months.

From: http://www.aelaw.ca/charges-defended/other-charges/forcible-confinement-cc-279/

And of course: (5) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of any person, murder is first degree murder in respect of a person when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an offence under one of the following sections:
(a) section 76 (hijacking an aircraft);
(b) section 271 (sexual assault);
(c) section 272 (sexual assault with a weapon, threats to a third party or causing bodily harm);
(d) section 273 (aggravated sexual assault);
(e) section 279 (kidnapping and forcible confinement); or
(f) section 279.1 (hostage taking).

From: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-231.html

BBM

 

[robynhood]

Just a correction to this. The description of the tattoo did not come out on May 8th, the day that the trailer was moved.

The trailer was moved to MB's house on Wednesday, May 8th, when the hockey game was on, or on Thursday, May 9th, depending whose story you want to believe.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/05/12/tim_bosmas_mom_makes_mothers_day_plea_for_his_safe_return.html

TB's cell phone was found on Thursday, May 9th.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/05/10/tim_bosma_cellphone_recovered_as_police_family_hold_out_hope_for_hamilton_mans_return.html

The description of the tattoo wasn't released until Friday, May 10th, the same day that DM was arrested.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/05/10/tim-bosma-missing-persons_n_3254021.html

Some other thoughts - yours in green, mine in blue.

They had no idea as to how long SB intended to wait for TB's return and figured TB and his truck would no longer be traceable in about an hour or so and knew LE would not be out looking with this short amount of time.

Why would they not think either would be traceable in an hour? Both were still traceable a week later.

Maybe TB was not open to meeting them anywhere else but his home...

If the purpose was the truck, and they didn't want to risk witnesses, why wouldn't they just move on to the next ad, like they did with the RBEG?

The incinerator was not noticeable by anyone other then someone who deliberately went looking for it way back there in the secluded bush.

The neighbours working in the next field found it easy enough. It had been moved, but I don't remember reading anything about them having to go searching for it.

JMO

In all do RESPECT to poster Alethea Dice I am not understanding your comments in Blue ..So I am asking if you could please possibly clarify what you are trying to say....maybe you could summarize what you are justifying .. or saying?????......JMO but I feel Swede has justified her comments Clearly thru out this whole website many many times ....I am trying to understand your points...as in view points...thanking you ahead of time ...for your response...robynhood!

 

[Archangel7]

The burner phone was purchased in February of this year, several months after WM's suicide and LB's disappearance. It was used primarily in Toronto's west end. Are there any missing persons or unsolved murders in the west end of TO between February and May that stand out as possible links?



http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/missing-hamilton-man-s-cell-phone-found-truck-spotted-police-1.1275659

I wasn't referring to WM or LB.

 

[Alethea Dice]

In all do RESPECT to poster Alethea Dice I am not understanding your comments in Blue ..So I am asking if you could please possibly clarify what you are trying to say....maybe you could summarize what you are justifying .. or saying?????......JMO but I feel Swede has justified her comments Clearly thru out this whole website many many times ....I am trying to understand your points...as in view points...thanking you ahead of time ...for your response...robynhood!

If you go back to the original post, Swedie was responding to Juballee's thoughts on why the crime did not show intelligent planning. Swedie provided her ideas on why those poor choices may have been made. I was simply questioning/debating why those particular points quoted may not be valid, in my own opinion of course.

Hope this helps.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Actually, it's still a 1st degree murder charge, even if they told TB to get out of the vehicle.

Forcible confinement: A charge of Forcible Confinement requires only a minimal deprivation of freedom of movement: A person can be charged with Forcible Confinement for any conduct that restricts the liberty of another person – everything from standing in a doorway and refusing to let someone leave a space, to locking a person out on an apartment patio against their wishes. The Criminal Code of Canada states that:

Every one who, without lawful authority, confines, imprisons or forcibly seizes another person is guilty of (a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years; or (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding eighteen months.

From: http://www.aelaw.ca/charges-defended/other-charges/forcible-confinement-cc-279/

And of course: (5) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of any person, murder is first degree murder in respect of a person when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an offence under one of the following sections:
(a) section 76 (hijacking an aircraft);
(b) section 271 (sexual assault);
(c) section 272 (sexual assault with a weapon, threats to a third party or causing bodily harm);
(d) section 273 (aggravated sexual assault);
(e) section 279 (kidnapping and forcible confinement); or
(f) section 279.1 (hostage taking).

From: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-231.html

BBM

In the sample given, which of these points would still apply? If he was told to get out of the truck and refused, he wasn't deprived of freedom of movement except by his own choice. His liberty would not have been restricted if they told him to leave the truck. They wouldn't have been blocking the doorway so he couldn't get out or refusing to let him leave. I suppose you could say he was locked out of his truck against his wishes, but I'm not sure how strong that argument would be all on it's own. It's not like being locked out on a balcony where you can't escape or "leave that space".

I understand that if someone is murdered during a kidnapping or forcible confinement, it is an automatic first degree murder charge. But the forcible confinement charge would need to be proven, in order for the first degree charge to stick. Again, this is all using the example given, that TB may have been told to leave the truck and refused, a stuggle ensued and he was killed, which was not part of the plan.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

I wasn't referring to WM or LB.

Do you mind me asking who you were referring to then? What other deceased or missing persons might the phone be found to be relevant to?

Wonder who else has been contacted by that burner phone or knew the number?

It might be a heck of a forensic link, especially if it was found to be relevant to, or known to other deceased or missing persons.........

Sorry if I'm confused. Could you possibly have just meant that there may be an off chance that someone else that the phone may have contacted may now be missing or dead, but we just don't know about it yet? Or do you have someone specific in mind?

 

[robynhood]

thanks for your reply..Aletha Dice...imo we will have to see the crown's evidence..IMO there must be a reason the "original charges "were confinement....However a
1. murder was commited and an
2.indignity to a human body...being burned beyond recognition

...interesting that DM owns and has an incinerator on his property...imo that makes no sense to me ....why would he own it on a property that has no livestock..it ain't lookin good for D.M....( among so many other points posted by swede on that other thread)

3.granted as I keep posting .." we have not heard a word about his defense...." granted it MUSt come out if he is so called " Innocent"....sorry jmo must cough when I type that one....my own opinion I am stressing here...robynhood!