General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing

[weeeva]

So for an intruder to have come into the bathroom they would have had to pass by the two dogs. OP presumably knew the dogs were there so why didn't he wonder how it could be an intruder if neither dog was barking?

Maybe because he was terrified and not thinking straight. He has admitted previous to this tragedy that he was quite paranoid about being robbed, especially at night with is legs off. I think this rings very true.

 

[Carol70]

No it doesn't, although I have a hard time believing as many folks would be as angry if it was just your common burglar.

He took a life, we'll see how much he pays for it. But then again, I've seen drunk drivers get as little as a few years in this country for killing someone so who knows.

If he had shot an intruder, he would have been elevated to god status. Just read the comments on news24 when robbers are shot/killed. You won't find one ounce of sympathy.

 

[NocturnalLady]

She could have wet herself before dying maybe?

This is all too sad and I just don't feel that OP is genuine...

Or her bladder was empty because they never actually went to bed but were up all night fighting and arguing. She could have urinated at any point in time depending on what version of events you believe.

How about this scenario? They are arguing - an argument that has been going on for hours. Reeva needs to use the bathroom. OP is controlling and insists that she doesn't "walk out on him". She goes and uses the bathroom anyway. That's when OP gets the gun and goes after her.

 

[Waddles]

The details paints a different account.

Mr Botha, who has 16 years' experience as a detective, said he believed the bullets were fired down, suggesting that Pistorius was wearing his prosthetic legs when the shots were discharged.

Gerrie Nel, the chief prosecutor asked Mr Botha if the shots were fired directly at the toilet basin and he agreed.

'If you fire straight at the door, you miss the toilet,' he explained.

Police believe a cricket bat found in the bathroom was used to break down the door to the toilet - part of the door was lying in the bathroom. One bullet cartridge was found outside bathroom while three others were inside.

On the shower mat in the en-suite bathroom lay a firearm and an iPhone 4 and iPhone - there were blood spatters on one of the phones.

Mr Botha said four phones in total were found in the athlete's home and none of them had been used to call emergency services.

----------------------

There is a difference in blood splatter and blood smudges.

The question is who owns the phone with the splatter?

If the phone with the splatter is Reeva's then the phone was in or near Reeva's possession during the attack. This could indicate an intent to call for help.

The introduction of the iphone with splatter starts to point in the direction of an domestic altercation rather than an intruder scenario. If the neighbors testify that the argument was followed by shooting then the affidavit can be ruled as fabricated.

The affidavit paints one picture of the event and the devices found at the scene will either collaborate or refute it.

It is a good chance the prosecution is only presenting enough evidence to address the bail hearing.

Inobu

There is a lot of conflicting information that skews our view.
The bathroom layout is contradicting so watch closely for accurate info

The image has toilet facing door where as the bathroom plan (drawing) has the toilet facing the side wall. This is why the detective said if you shoot straight at the door you will miss the toilet
According to the drawing there is no sink in the toilet room.

Although myself, my boyfriend and other friends of mine frequently take their phones to the toilet...

 

[SweetT]

Or her bladder was empty because they never actually went to bed but were up all night fighting and arguing. She could have urinated at any point in time depending on what version of events you believe.

How about this scenario? They are arguing - an argument that has been going on for hours. Reeva needs to use the bathroom. OP is controlling and insists that she doesn't "walk out on him". She goes and uses the bathroom anyway. That's when OP gets the gun and goes after her.

All kinds of scenerios could have occurred. What if Reeva did go to the restroom, the BF checks out her Ipad while she is in the other room and finds some messages from the Rugby dude that he did not like...and then he proceeds in a fit of rage and kills Reeva?

 

[Carol70]

or you perceive your life to be in danger, and we do not know if Oscar has admitted shooting to kill or has he said he shot to scare the intruder, and maybe that is how he will explain the shots being higher up than they would be as he aimed higher up the door so as to scare not kill the intruder

Well. He didn't shoot a warning shot but he DID shout a warning?? He stated that he shouted at the intruder to " get out of my home" or something like this..I'm not sure how that would count??. Ballistics according to the state, show he shot downwards...but depending where the entry points are in the door...ie: are they very low at the bottom of the door..or in the middle of the door which would then indicate he had his legs on. If they are lower in the door, Reeva could have been crouching,sitting on the bathroom floor for the bullets to have hit her...kwim?

 

[NocturnalLady]

Yep, this is admittedly very questionable...he has what looks like a bull terrier and a boerboel..both vicious territorial dogs...I couldn't imagine an intruder getting past them easily. But..(lol, I know ) I would imagine at that stage in his mind he was not evening thinking about the dogs...also, it's very common for dogs to be poisoned by intruders. We own a boerboel, he has been trained NOT to accept food from anyone but ourselves and we have a "eat" word. He will only eat when he is given this specific instruction no matter how hungry he is. I Oscar did happen to think of the dogs, in his paranoia, he more than likely thout the worst!

I know for sure I would never attempt to break into a house by going through a yard containing a boerboel! They are not the kind of dogs that would tolerate that!

 

[SweetT]

None of it explains then why he shot toward the toilet and not straight at the door.

 

[NocturnalLady]

Maybe because he was terrified and not thinking straight. He has admitted previous to this tragedy that he was quite paranoid about being robbed, especially at night with is legs off. I think this rings very true.

I agree that someone would feel vulnerable if they were being confronted while they didn't have their prosthetics on. However if he was so very paranoid what is he doing sleeping with open windows and doors??

 

[joe jones]

my biggest problem with the whole case is that if he really intended to kill her then he had ample opportunity to do so at any time that evening without having to shoot at her through a door not knowing if he was even hitting her, if they were arguing (and I have yet to hear any solid evidence they were) then at any point when she was in the same room he could have shot her, but he waits until she goes and locks herself in the bathroom,

he knew she would have to come out at some point so why shoot through the door,

maybe she went to bathroom to make private call/email and locked the door to do so in privacy, or maybe it was her practice to lock toilet door for privacy every time she went, and if phone/s were found in bathroom she did not use one to call the police to say Oscar was threatening her with a gun,

I think his explanation is plausible with the evidence that is so far available, whether it is the truth is a completely different matter

 

[cityslick]

my biggest problem with the whole case is that if he really intended to kill her then he had ample opportunity to do so at any time that evening without having to shoot at her through a door not knowing if he was even hitting her, if they were arguing (and I have yet to hear any solid evidence they were) then at any point when she was in the same room he could have shot her, but he waits until she goes and locks herself in the bathroom,

he knew she would have to come out at some point so why shoot through the door,

maybe she went to bathroom to make private call/email and locked the door to do so in privacy, or maybe it was her practice to lock toilet door for privacy every time she went, and if phone/s were found in bathroom she did not use one to call the police to say Oscar was threatening her with a gun,

I think his explanation is plausible with the evidence that is so far available, whether it is the truth is a completely different matter

Then take it a step further and ask why he had break down the door with the bat after he shot. If you were trying to get to someone, wouldn't you break down the door first, then shoot them (so you know you got them)?

 

[Carol70]

I know for sure I would never attempt to break into a house by going through a yard containing a boerboel! They are not the kind of dogs that would tolerate that!

Absolutely..and I would imagine that his boerboel would also have received some kind of training ( it's not recommended to own one without firm knowledge of the breed) so the fact that his dogs were under the bathroom window does make it somewhat of an issue in his defence. But I will go with the opinion that the dogs didn't even cross his mind at that point in time.

 

[SweetT]

If I read things correctly a phone and a gun were found in the bathroom shower. Indicating he placed them there.

 

[Cherwell]

Funny that Oscar stops crying as soon as things are going his way, hm?

Yes, I noticed that.

I don't believe his story, it makes little sense. I find it more plausible that he flew into a rage over something, jealousy being the most likely factor. Perhaps he spied on her phone messages while she was in the loo, and came across something he didn't like. Or something like that.

 

[Carol70]

I agree that someone would feel vulnerable if they were being confronted while they didn't have their prosthetics on. However if he was so very paranoid what is he doing sleeping with open windows and doors??

This is about the only thing I find hard to believe too considering his paranoia...and there is no mention if the door had a security gate on it and that was perhaps closed. We have a door in our bedroom that leads to the outside but it has a slam lock on...so on very hot nights, we are able to sleep with the door open and still be safe. It doesn't say anywhere if this might have been the case with his door too????

 

[Carol70]

Ok, I just looked at pictures of his house again and as far as I can see, there is nothing to indicate that there are security gates on the inside...but it's hard to tell.

 

[Lola]

SA does not have a jury system

not to be too pedantic, but a jurist is not a juror. a judge, magistrate, etc is a jurist.

 

[Peliman]

=Estelle;8891391
why would your girlfriend who just slipped into the loo in the middle of the night lock the door??? why would an intruder lock the door.

Estelle brought up a good point last night. The locked door, how would one know it's locked without trying it first? Why would an intruder lock himself/herself in the bathroom?

I'm also having trouble believing there was no communication between the two of them. He yells out at her to call the police, he yells at the intruder and fires though the door.

She's silent as a mouse after being hit by 3 bullets? Having trouble believing this.

 

[gxm]

my biggest problem with the whole case is that if he really intended to kill her then he had ample opportunity to do so at any time that evening without having to shoot at her through a door not knowing if he was even hitting her, if they were arguing (and I have yet to hear any solid evidence they were) then at any point when she was in the same room he could have shot her, but he waits until she goes and locks herself in the bathroom,

he knew she would have to come out at some point so why shoot through the door,

maybe she went to bathroom to make private call/email and locked the door to do so in privacy, or maybe it was her practice to lock toilet door for privacy every time she went, and if phone/s were found in bathroom she did not use one to call the police to say Oscar was threatening her with a gun,

I think his explanation is plausible with the evidence that is so far available, whether it is the truth is a completely different matter

IMO, she was in the bathroom hiding from him. I think he got aggressive and violent so she ran and locked herself in the bathroom out of fear. He was in a rage and shot through the door rather than wait for her to come out. That's just my gut feeling. But the lawyers' statement is very well-crafted, and leaves much room for reasonable doubt.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

my biggest problem with the whole case is that if he really intended to kill her then he had ample opportunity to do so at any time that evening without having to shoot at her through a door not knowing if he was even hitting her, if they were arguing (and I have yet to hear any solid evidence they were) then at any point when she was in the same room he could have shot her, but he waits until she goes and locks herself in the bathroom,

he knew she would have to come out at some point so why shoot through the door,

maybe she went to bathroom to make private call/email and locked the door to do so in privacy, or maybe it was her practice to lock toilet door for privacy every time she went, and if phone/s were found in bathroom she did not use one to call the police to say Oscar was threatening her with a gun,

I think his explanation is plausible with the evidence that is so far available, whether it is the truth is a completely different matter

They are fighting he pulls out a gun she runs away he runs after her in a fury and shoots her. Legs were already on because they'd been fighting not sleeping.

I've got a feeling he's going to get out of this via a bribe.