General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing

[cityslick]

Well we will find out today about the cricket bat and crushed skull.

He shoots first, then silence, realises person is probably dead so kicks door in to find body to take to hospital. Maybe he should have rung 911 before doing that.

Where is the verified link that she had a crushed skull because that has not been mentioned in court at all.

 

[Chewy]

Estelle brought up a good point last night. The locked door, how would one know it's locked without trying it first? Why would an intruder lock himself/herself in the bathroom?

I'm also having trouble believing there was no communication between the two of them. He yells out at her to call the police, he yells at the intruder and fires though the door.

She's silent as a mouse after being hit by 3 bullets? Having trouble believing this.[/QUOTE


This might be crazy, but what if she had gotten up early and went to the bathroom and fell asleep on the toilet. It could explain the confusion here. I haven't gone through the entire thread but were there drugs or alcohol in her system? Had she taken a sleeping pill?

If she fell asleep on the toilet or passed out and he was muffled outside the door he may have heard her in the bathroom and called out to her and gotten no reply.

I am probably the only one who doesn't think the guy is guilty. I really think this was a horrible horrible accident.

At the same time only time will tell, the cops wouldn't have slammed him so quickly like this if they didn't think something was really wrong with his story.

 

[jandkmom]

I just don't see any way someone can accidentally shoot someone that many times. One time is an accident...more than that, it is intentional.

 

[Estelle]

then why not run down the stairs, seems an odd place to run to if you are being chased by somebody with a gun,
why did he have to shoot through the door if he knew Reeva was in there and he was after her, he could have smashed the door down pre the shooting and then made sure his shots hit her, he could not see through the door therefore if she was lying on the floor all his shots through the door would have missed her,

He had locked her in the bedroom and IMO was holding her captive. He says it was for security reasons but I do not believe him. BTW did you read that he left his front door open that night possibly after the murder?

Your scenario does not fit with his planned intruder scenario!

 

[ontariolynn]

The problem with this statement is there is no evidence of a fight, physically or just yelling at each other. We can assume all we want on scenarios but lets look at what the current evidence provides. They lead investigator, who supposedly has experience, got up there today and said there is no evidence that disproves OP's version of events. The reason for this is there is no evidence that goes against what he said. Nobody heard them screaming at each other, nobody heard a fight, she doesn't have defensive wounds, etc etc etc.

I agree completely that blind shooting at a door indicates a number of things, the very least of which is lack of judgement if his story is true. You can say there are holes in his story and I would believe you. The problem is there is holes in a whole bunch of other scenarios too.

Please tell us the other holes that you are referring to, what you have written is very interesting.
Thank You

 

[LJKaust]

I have a neighbour with bipolar, who is not medicated correctly. She screams at her husband day and night. If I am inside my house, even with the front door open, and they are inside their house, I can't hear a thing.

I wear thongs around my house at all times, but during the night I do not put them on to go to the toilet.

When in a new relationship, I always locked the door when using the toilet, for fear that my partner would walk in on me.

Also, have we seen a photograph of the bed? Some beds are really high!

 

[Courage100]

I find the blade runner's version of the story preposterous. If he felt that someone had broken into his house, why would he not look over to check up on his girlfriend? That would be the first thing almost anyone would do to check on your loved ones. Why would he assume the person in the washroom was an intruder and not his girlfriend? Especially if she was not in bed with him at the time?

Why would he also not call the cops right away? And if her head was bashed in (I believe I read that somewhere), what is his explanation for that?

 

[Estelle]

I'd like to know more about Reeva's clothing, as follows:

- What was Reeva wearing when she arrived on 2/13?
- What was Reeva wearing when she practiced yoga?
- Regarding the white shorts and black vest she was reportedly wearing when police arrived, were these street clothes? Could they be considered sleeping clothes?
- Were more traditional sleep clothes found at the residence? If so, had they been worn?
- Aside from the outfit worn on 2/13 and the white shorts and black vest, was an additional unworn outfit for 2/14 found at the residence?

When I first read the affidavit, I was perplexed by the inclusion of the yoga comment, and I'm now wondering if this could be some sort of explanation about the clothing she was wearing when police arrived. Just thinking out loud here. Purely speculating. If she was wearing street clothes when police arrived, that seems significant to me.

All of the above is just my opinion and speculation.

If I were the detective, I would have examined the clothes. IMO as it was a hot night, she could have arrived in the black and white outfit which to me sounds like shorts and a tank top which she could wear anywhere - in the street, to do yoga, to sleep in if she was travelling light.

I do not really believe the yoga story anyway as they are acting like a married couple after 9 weeks! I would like him to account for the whole evening but yoga fills in one hour. IMO the bed was only ruffled because they probably had sex. I don't think they would have settled and gone to sleep after the arguments. Romantically, they probably wanted to be together at midnight for the dawn of Valentine's Day and to open the present. But they may not have been able to resolve their diferences so they started drinking more and more.

 

[wfgodot]

So what are the odds he gets bail? 70-30? For? Against?

 

[Cherwell]

Also, have we seen a photograph of the bed? Some beds are really high!

Given that his legs are amputated, I don't think his bed would be "really high".

 

[Estelle]

His affidavit stated he felt trapped in the bedroom because the bedroom door was locked. It didn't elaborate on why it would be so difficult to unlock the bedroom door. Perhaps a key was required, as was required to unlock the bathroom door from the inside.

JMO

This is a very crucial legal point. Why didn't he unlock it? Who locked it? Where was the key? Did you lock it to make Reeva your captive so she could not leave you and hid the key from her? How did he get out of the bedroom while carrying body down stairs.

 

[Patticake]

Deleted

 

[Wondergirl]

Has it been mentioned if the bathroom door had space between the bottom of the door and the floor?

TIA

 

[Wondergirl]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...s-how-oscar-pistorius-killed-reeva-steenkamp/

 

[Wondergirl]

After seeing this layout of the home, I understand the use of the word "oblique" in describing how the shots were fired through to the toilet room. Wow.

 

[sorrell skye]

From the affidavit: "During the early morning hours of 14 February 2013, I woke up, went onto the balcony to bring the fan in and closed the sliding doors, the blinds and the curtains. I heard a noise in the bathroom and realised that someone was in the bathroom."

"I grabbed my 9mm pistol from underneath my bed. On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed."

So the gist of his version of events is this: He was able to go out onto the balcony, bring the fan in, close the sliding doors, the blinds & curtains, he then heard "someone" in the bathroom, grabbed his firearm from beneath the bed - the same side of the bed on which Reeva was supposedly sleeping (yet he claims he thought she was still in bed, despite his proximity to where she would have been asleep)) and moved toward the bathroom - all in the "pitch dark" (his words) without wearing his prosthetic legs.

Meanwhile, "One of our witnesses heard a fight, two people talking loudly at each other ... from two in the morning to three," Botha told the court. Pistorius' first call after the incident was to the manager of his high-security complex at 3.19 am, Botha said.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-oscar-pistorius-murder-20130220,0,6323770.story

From two to three a.m. is a long time to hear "two people talking loudly at each other", if that is indeed how long the witness heard a "fight", and far exceeds the time frame during which OP stated he "screamed" at what he claimed to believe was an intruder, and then "shouted" at Reeva to call police.

ETA: According to Botha's testimony, the witness reported hearing two people fighting/talking loudly. Nowhere in OP's affidavit does he state that anyone but himself uttered a sound. How does the witness's report reconcile with what OP claims occurred? If the witness is to be believed, more than one person's voice was heard from 2 - 3 a.m.

 

[Estelle]

This is what was said in court
"Botha said that Pistorius would have had to pass his bed to walk from the balcony to the bathroom, suggesting he would have noticed whether or not Steenkamp was in bed. He also claimed he had found a holster for the gun on the same side of the bed where he found Steenkamp’s overnight bag and slippers (presumably implying that was the side on which Steenkamp was sleeping).

Defence

Roux said Pistorius had a shoulder problem and so he slept on the other side of the bed than usual on the night in question. Steenkamp had spent the previous night there too, and had slept on her usual side that night. Nel expressed scepticism about this explanation."

To me this makes their excuse even weaker since he now has to go past her side of the bed numerous times, and would have more likely seen her if she got up to go to the restroom.

IMO the Defence thinks it has everything covered suggesting that they had slept on both sides of the bed the previous two nights. Will he have to prove he had a shoulder injury? There has been so much manipulation by this Advocate since 4.15am on day of murder so he can cover all tracks.

 

[sorrell skye]

One of the many things I'm wondering at this point: Why did he carry Reeva downstairs prior to paramedics arriving? It seems odd to me that he would remove her from the scene of the "accident". Was he hoping to prevent anyone from viewing the scene?

 

[Chewy]

Those images are fantastic. Totally different than what I pictured. One interesting detail is that the window was open.

I mentioned before if she had fallen asleep. What brought that to mind are several things.

He obviously broke down the door, so if he was enraged why wouldn't she have called for help on the phone, even a friend. If she ran to escape from him why not dial.

If she had ear buds or something, she may have listened to soothing music while in the bathroom and not have heard him. If she was blocked out listening to music she may have been making odd sounds that were twisted by the acoustics to seem weird.

If she ran into the bathroom to escape him, why would she not just lock the bigger bathroom door, why only the toilet door which is a dead end?


What is the motive? If he's roid raged out of his mind then maybe, but what motive? Jealousy? He's a very handsome sexy guy, he'd have no trouble getting a new woman.

If she cheated on him, maybe but then murder? This way?

Why not cover it up better? If he wanted to kill her he could have thrown her over the balcony or knocked her in the tub and drowned her or something like that.

It just seems to weird to me.

 

[danzn16]

or you perceive your life to be in danger, and we do not know if Oscar has admitted shooting to kill or has he said he shot to scare the intruder, and maybe that is how he will explain the shots being higher up than they would be as he aimed higher up the door so as to scare not kill the intruder

if you were just going to scare someone you would shoot down or up in the air. not upwards toward their head and level with their hip. so i dont think that's the case