General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing

[Inobu]

911 response is not universal through out the world though. Heck, even in the US 911 isn't as reliable in all areas. I don't think his flight status should be based on simply that. It should be more based on if he has the means to flee the country and disappear.

Yeah your right, 911 does not exist in the Congo jungle but I should have been more precise.

South Africa is 10177 10111 10111 emergency numbers.

cityslick there is an existing case where the assailant is fighting extradition in the UK. He committed a crime in SA and they cant get him back.

You can try to over look the truth but he called his friend to call the ambulance wasting valuable time don't you think? Why?

Inobu

Flight risk is based on integrity

 

[SweetT]

By 3 am my phone is always on the charger if all is going smooth and well and I'm asleep.

 

[21merc7]

15:35 - Nel on Pistorius statement: "Astounded by the total lack of insight into the seriousness."

15:34 - Nel: Says he needs his passport to compete internationally. Always leaves it open. He never said 'I'm not going anywhere'.

Nel: Pistorius shows a total lack of appreciation for what he's done.

15:33 - Nel: Pistorius seems to think that he won't be charged or go to jail for a long time.

15:31 - Nel making much of fact that Oscar Pistorius said he would stand his trial "should there be one.

This entire portion is bothersome to me. Not only do I think he is a flight risk, could intimidate any witnesses or conjure up some falsely positive ones, I think if he gets out is is of great danger to reoffend. What happens when others yell murderer or you should die or things as such at him?

Does anyone besides me think he looks angry in the Court photos, when he is not crying?

 

[Carol70]

Yeah your right, 911 does not exist in the Congo jungle but I should have been more precise.

South Africa is 10177 10111 10111 emergency numbers.

cityslick there is an existing case where the assailant is fighting extradition in the UK. He committed a crime in SA and they cant get him back.

You can try over look the truth but he called his friend to call the ambulance wasting valuable time don't you think?

Inobu

Netcare emergency is 911. He called netcare AFTER calling the estate management to get an ambulance. The manager rocked up with a doctor on the estate saving valuable time waiting for an ambulance I think.

 

[SweetT]

"I felt trapped as my bedroom door was locked and I have limited mobility on my stumps."

His GF had no where to go but the bathroom.

 

[Carol70]

911 response is not universal through out the world though. Heck, even in the US 911 isn't as reliable in all areas. I don't think his flight status should be based on simply that. It should be more based on if he has the means to flee the country and disappear.

Don't laugh but I watch your American reality detective shows and am almost always impressed with the police/ambulance times.

 

[Sarahlou]

This entire portion is bothersome to me. Not only do I think he is a flight risk, could intimidate any witnesses or conjure up some falsely positive ones, I think if he gets out is is of great danger to reoffend. What happens when others yell murderer or you should die or things as such at him?

Does anyone besides me think he looks angry in the Court photos, when he is not crying?

Yup. And the way he turns on the tears when things aren't going his way. I think he's arrogant and manipulative. Not a nice guy.

 

[ontariolynn]

Netcare emergency is 911. He called netcare AFTER calling the estate management to get an ambulance. The manager rocked up with a doctor on the estate saving valuable time waiting for an ambulance I think.

You are correct, as his Defense Lawyer said that yesterday, and the Pros, never tried to rebuttal, but then they still do not have the phone records.

 

[Inobu]

Netcare emergency is 911. He called netcare AFTER calling the estate management to get an ambulance. The manager rocked up with a doctor on the estate saving valuable time waiting for an ambulance I think.

This guys affidavit just keeps it going.

I put on my prosthetic legs, ran back to the bathroom and tried to kick the toilet door open. I think I must then have turned on the lights. I went back into the bedroom and grabbed my cricket bat to bash open the toilet door. A panel or panels broke off and I found the key on the floor and unlocked and opened the door. Reeva was slumped over but alive.

I battled to get her out of the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom. I phoned Johan Stander ("Stander") who was involved in the administration of the estate and asked him to phone the ambulance. I phoned Netcare and asked for help. I went downstairs to open the front door.

I returned to the bathroom and picked Reeva up as I had been told not to wait for the paramedics, but to take her to hospital. I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital. On my way down Stander arrived. A doctor who lives in the complex also arrived. Downstairs, I tried to render the assistance to Reeva that I could, but she died in my arms.


(First Delay )
I phoned Johan Stander ("Stander") who was involved in the administration of the estate and asked him to phone the ambulance.

(Second) I phoned Netcare and asked for help. I went downstairs to open the front door.

I returned to the bathroom and picked Reeva up as I had been told not to wait for the paramedics, but to take her to hospital. I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital.

His action........

Inobu

 

[Carol70]

You are correct, as his Defense Lawyer said that yesterday, and the Pros, never tried to rebuttal, but then they still do not have the phone records.

Yes but the defence had found the time to call netcare and confirm the exact time of his call...something Mr Botha nor Mr Nel mind you, had thought to do.

 

[fringles]

This is just crazy to me - all of it, but it does seem that there's a whoooole lot of clouding the issue going on from OP's defence.

For me, it's all about his statement and the map of the bedroom area.

- He woke up and moved on his stumps to bring a fan in, close doors and draw blinds. This takes, what, 1-3 minutes for an able bodied person, maybe 3-4 for him? Either way, he is wide awake - this is not a half asleep, fuzzyheaded person.

- During this series of actions, he was in or very near the bedroom. And at no time at all does he notice she isn't in the bed?

- If his claim is that she got up while he was on the balcony, then being as the balcony is nearer to the bed than the bathroom, presumably he would've heard if not seen her rise.

Yet he says he heard a noise from the bathroom? What noise? Presumably either a door, or a flushing toilet. If a burglar breaks into the bathroom, why would they close the door? And no burglar's first thought upon breaking in is to use the facilities.

Upon hearing the noise from the bathroom, he is in the bedroom? Again he does not look to see if Reeva is there. He then puts on his legs, which must take a moment, and since they're presumably near the bed, places him right there. Still doesn't look. Yells out to her. Doesn't hear a response. Though why he would yell, when she's right there in the room? Why not whisper? Why not gently shake her awake and whisper to call the police, so as not to alert the intruder?

He then goes into the bathroom and shoots through the door four times.

THEN he thinks 'oh wait, my girlfriend'

Absolute twaddle.

 

[Dushi]

This is just crazy to me - all of it, but it does seem that there's a whoooole lot of clouding the issue going on from OP's defence.

For me, it's all about his statement and the map of the bedroom area.

- He woke up and moved on his stumps to bring a fan in, close doors and draw blinds. This takes, what, 1-3 minutes for an able bodied person, maybe 3-4 for him? Either way, he is wide awake - this is not a half asleep, fuzzyheaded person.

- During this series of actions, he was in or very near the bedroom. And at no time at all does he notice she isn't in the bed?

- If his claim is that she got up while he was on the balcony, then being as the balcony is nearer to the bed than the bathroom, presumably he would've heard if not seen her rise.

Yet he says he heard a noise from the bathroom? What noise? Presumably either a door, or a flushing toilet. If a burglar breaks into the bathroom, why would they close the door? And no burglar's first thought upon breaking in is to use the facilities.

Upon hearing the noise from the bathroom, he is in the bedroom? Again he does not look to see if Reeva is there. He then puts on his legs, which must take a moment, and since they're presumably near the bed, places him right there. Still doesn't look. Yells out to her. Doesn't hear a response. Though why he would yell, when she's right there in the room? Why not whisper? Why not gently shake her awake and whisper to call the police, so as not to alert the intruder?

He then goes into the bathroom and shoots through the door four times.

THEN he thinks 'oh wait, my girlfriend'

Absolute twaddle.

My thoughts as well

 

[SyraKelly]

This is just crazy to me - all of it, but it does seem that there's a whoooole lot of clouding the issue going on from OP's defence.

For me, it's all about his statement and the map of the bedroom area.

- He woke up and moved on his stumps to bring a fan in, close doors and draw blinds. This takes, what, 1-3 minutes for an able bodied person, maybe 3-4 for him? Either way, he is wide awake - this is not a half asleep, fuzzyheaded person.

- During this series of actions, he was in or very near the bedroom. And at no time at all does he notice she isn't in the bed?

- If his claim is that she got up while he was on the balcony, then being as the balcony is nearer to the bed than the bathroom, presumably he would've heard if not seen her rise.

Yet he says he heard a noise from the bathroom? What noise? Presumably either a door, or a flushing toilet. If a burglar breaks into the bathroom, why would they close the door? And no burglar's first thought upon breaking in is to use the facilities.

Upon hearing the noise from the bathroom, he is in the bedroom? Again he does not look to see if Reeva is there. He then puts on his legs, which must take a moment, and since they're presumably near the bed, places him right there. Still doesn't look. Yells out to her. Doesn't hear a response. Though why he would yell, when she's right there in the room? Why not whisper? Why not gently shake her awake and whisper to call the police, so as not to alert the intruder?

He then goes into the bathroom and shoots through the door four times.

THEN he thinks 'oh wait, my girlfriend'

Absolute twaddle.

I was going to post this exact thing,most people do this & not shout!
he is lying in MO-And he is going to get away with it..poor girl!!

 

[Carol70]

This is just crazy to me - all of it, but it does seem that there's a whoooole lot of clouding the issue going on from OP's defence.

For me, it's all about his statement and the map of the bedroom area.

- He woke up and moved on his stumps to bring a fan in, close doors and draw blinds. This takes, what, 1-3 minutes for an able bodied person, maybe 3-4 for him? Either way, he is wide awake - this is not a half asleep, fuzzyheaded person.

- During this series of actions, he was in or very near the bedroom. And at no time at all does he notice she isn't in the bed?

- If his claim is that she got up while he was on the balcony, then being as the balcony is nearer to the bed than the bathroom, presumably he would've heard if not seen her rise.

Yet he says he heard a noise from the bathroom? What noise? Presumably either a door, or a flushing toilet. If a burglar breaks into the bathroom, why would they close the door? And no burglar's first thought upon breaking in is to use the facilities.

Upon hearing the noise from the bathroom, he is in the bedroom? Again he does not look to see if Reeva is there. He then puts on his legs, which must take a moment, and since they're presumably near the bed, places him right there. Still doesn't look. Yells out to her. Doesn't hear a response. Though why he would yell, when she's right there in the room? Why not whisper? Why not gently shake her awake and whisper to call the police, so as not to alert the intruder?

He then goes into the bathroom and shoots through the door four times.

THEN he thinks 'oh wait, my girlfriend'

Absolute twaddle.

Actually, he is on the balcony...hears a noise in the bathroom, it's dark, grabs his gun and moves quickly towards the bathroom ( 7m)..screaming at the intruder to get out of his house and at Reeva to call the police, hears movement in the loo and starts to shoot...his legs are off and he only puts them on when it dawns on him that Reeva is not in the bed and may have been in the loo..."shortened version of his statement". Your version of events is wrong so it does sound suspicious.

 

[weeeva]

I agree that someone would feel vulnerable if they were being confronted while they didn't have their prosthetics on. However if he was so very paranoid what is he doing sleeping with open windows and doors??

Perhaps he was feeling more relaxed that night and let his guard down and was taken completely by surprise. I just feel his account of things is very plausible, more plausible than if he did deliberately kill Reeva.
It's her state of dress that I am more puzzled about. T-shirt and vest top at that time of night?
Or was that her PJ's.

 

[Dushi]

So, does he walk right past the bed where she should have been, and doesn't think to see if she is safely there?

Where was his gun?

 

[Zinn]

I'm still very focused on the prosecution's assertion that Reeva was "dressed" when shot in the bathroom. I was hoping for clarification of the type of clothing she was wearing (whether they could be considered sleep clothes) and I didn't hear that exactly, but I thought the rebuttal from the lawyer on this topic was pretty telling. According to live tweets from reporters in the courtroom, it appears Oscar's lawyer said something like "the fact that Reeva had clothes on does not mean she didn't get dressed to go to the toilet to empty her bladder." So the argument was not that she could have been sleeping in these clothes but that she could have put on the clothes at 3:00am to go to the bathroom. Makes me wonder if additional (worn) sleep clothes were found at the scene or whether the shorts are clearly street clothes that one would not sleep in. Hopefully more will be revealed.

Also very interested to hear Reeva's phone records haven't been checked yet. So they don't know if she attempted to place any calls prior to being shot.

Finally, I'm curious to know more about Reeva cancelling whatever plans she had that evening. Oscar's affidavit stated she was to go out with friends but asked him to stay home with her instead. Curious to know what she said to her friends in cancelling their plans.

 

[fringles]

Actually, he is on the balcony...hears a noise in the bathroom, it's dark, grabs his gun and moves quickly towards the bathroom ( 7m)..screaming at the intruder to get out of his house and at Reeva to call the police, hears movement in the loo and starts to shoot...his legs are off and he only puts them on when it dawns on him that Reeva is not in the bed and may have been in the loo..."shortened version of his statement". Your version of events is wrong so it does sound suspicious.

Ah, thank you for clearing that up!

However, to move from the balcony to the bathroom, he must go past the bed, I think? I still don't understand shouting at Reeva - nor, for that matter, at the intruder. Given that at this point he presumably has no idea whether the intruder is armed, or alone, and also that since the bedroom door is locked and he was on the balcony, so the intruder must have just arrived through the bathroom window, would it not make more sense to arm yourself, wake Reeva, stay quiet and phone police?

I also still personally find it impossible to believe that he didn't know she wasn't in the bed. Either prior to hearing the noise, or upon hearing the noise, and having to walk past the bed to go check it out, he didn't check whether his girlfriend was there? Or incidentally notice she wasn't? Also, if she WAS in there merely using the toilet, then as I said, there are only a few noises he could've heard - a flush, or a door closing. Given that late night trips to the bathroom are fairly common, I honestly feel like if he was someone who upon hearing this sort of noise at night, was so terrified by it so as to not realise it was his girlfriend, and this is the result, then I'm surprised this didn't happen in one of his prior relationships, kwim?

This is all just completely IMO and I'm happy to be proved wrong.

 

[weeeva]

Estelle brought up a good point last night. The locked door, how would one know it's locked without trying it first? Why would an intruder lock himself/herself in the bathroom?

I'm also having trouble believing there was no communication between the two of them. He yells out at her to call the police, he yells at the intruder and fires though the door.

She's silent as a mouse after being hit by 3 bullets? Having trouble believing this.

I always lock the bathroom door just because I have always been a very modest person. Reeva hadn't known OP for long, so perhaps she just did not feel comfortable leaving the door unlocked.
It depends where OP was when he called out. If he was still near the balcony there is a good chance she did not hear him. Or if she DID hear him she could have thought he had actually come across an intruder. She would not realise that OP had mistakenly took her for an intruder.
I think everything falls into place after hearing his version of events. It's all very sad for both families.

 

[Carol70]

So, does he walk right past the bed where she should have been, and doesn't think to see if she is safely there?

Where was his gun?

From what I gather, his gun is under the bed, the side closest to the balcony door. In all honesty, I can imagine that the timing of events from the noise he heard to the actual shooting was very short, maybe 1-2 minutes max...we can only speculate why he didn't check the bed first..