General discussion thread #14

[colomom]

This is great information colomom!!Tell our Portuguese friends from the other board thank you!!This going to help so much on the Portuguese news media reports.

You are great!:blowkiss: Thanks sooo much!

Ahhhhh, shucks. No prob! I will pass on your thanks.

BTW, I posted all of this information on the Media links thread so we can always find it.

 

[wtsn5]

Where did they get a sample of Maddie's DNA to use as a comparison, I wonder....

I asked the same question in the another section but have had no reply. i would love to know the answer to that as well.

 

[SewingDeb]

Since Maddie was an IVF baby was an amnio done during Kate's pregnancy? Other sources could be her toothbrush and hairbrush.

 

[Betsy]

Since Maddie was an IVF baby was an amnio done during Kate's pregnancy? Other sources could be her toothbrush and hairbrush.

Interesting thought, SewingDeb. I'm not sure using her tooth brush or hairbrush would be reliable; I have small children and they use each other's everything...BUT the amnio is another thought, if she indeed had one.

Does anyone know if the DNA markers are kept as part of a patient's medical record after an amnio?

Other than that, since the twins would still be in diapers I'm assuming, perhaps any of Maddie's dirty underwear could be examined? (Oh my God, it breaks my heart thinking about this...)

 

[jacobean]

Since Maddie was an IVF baby was an amnio done during Kate's pregnancy? Other sources could be her toothbrush and hairbrush.

Ive done some searches on this, and it seems that amnio is performed for IVF pregnancies or is at least offered. I cant find a source that says how long these results are kept on file for...will keep looking.

What if they have DNA samples from the parents, isnt that also a way to test, like they do for paternity tests?? Maybe ive just been watching too much tv..?

 

[Edwards20]

the times is generall accepted as being less sensational and circumspect than say our tabloid papers such as the mirror and the sun -

I am not saying it is verbatim - just giving the contex to my thoughts to avoid total specualtion

Thank you Gord.

Don't mean to but in on your question Edwards20 but, Jacobean put together a very good overview for us here:

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52538&page=6

Post # 147

We all found it to be really helpful and accurate.

...butting out now...

Thank you dear. No worries, it's a public forum .... so I don't look at replying to any post as a butting in.

well over here the general rule of thumb is to take all what the papers report with a pinch of salt

but in general

The Mail , The Mirror , The Sun and Express are tabloids and in the whole never let thr truth get in the way of a good story - they go for the most sensationilst angle - they want to sell more copies

The broadsheets such as the Times , Telegraph , and Guardian tend to check their sources a bit more and be less sensational - hence I would take a lot more credence from the Times than say the Mail

Thank you.

Personally, i dont trust any media. I dont think it matters which country it comes from.

I tend to agree with you somewhat on this, since I work for a media outlet.

Where did they get a sample of Maddie's DNA to use as a comparison, I wonder....

I have asked this as well.

Interesting thought, SewingDeb. I'm not sure using her tooth brush or hairbrush would be reliable; I have small children and they use each other's everything

That is my thought on taking the DNA from something such as a hairbrush. I would hope the toothbrush was not share (teehee). But, if it's only an 88% perhaps the original sample isn't really Maddie's. That was my point in wondering where the original sample was obtained. I know each person's DNA is as different as a fingerprint, but I would think siblings would have similarities.

Just some random thoughts .........

 

[Edwards20]

Ive done some searches on this, and it seems that amnio is performed for IVF pregnancies or is at least offered. I cant find a source that says how long these results are kept on file for...will keep looking.

What if they have DNA samples from the parents, isnt that also a way to test, like they do for paternity tests?? Maybe ive just been watching too much tv..?

Ok, this makes me wonder something else. I am assuming that an IVF baby would have a different parent ? Or are they both her biological parents ? Then perhaps the siblings DNA could be quite different.

 

[wtsn5]

Answering Edwards20 reply to Becky

With a four year old it is hards to get them to understand that sharing or using someone elses toothbrush is just yucky - trust me many fights have been started in my house over whos toothbrush is touching whos.

So again where did the police and the lab get maddies DNA. If they are using the parents or sibilings as a source then the results will definately be flawed. JMHO

 

[Edwards20]

Answering Edwards20 reply to Becky

With a four year old it is hards to get them to understand that sharing or using someone elses toothbrush is just yucky - trust me many fights have been started in my house over whos toothbrush is touching whos.

I know .... that's why I put (teehee) in my post.

 

[SewingDeb]

Interesting thought, SewingDeb. I'm not sure using her tooth brush or hairbrush would be reliable; I have small children and they use each other's everything...BUT the amnio is another thought, if she indeed had one.

Does anyone know if the DNA markers are kept as part of a patient's medical record after an amnio?

Other than that, since the twins would still be in diapers I'm assuming, perhaps any of Maddie's dirty underwear could be examined? (Oh my God, it breaks my heart thinking about this...)

I have 4 children so I have to agree about the toothbrush and hairbrush.

It does seem to me that Maddie's DNA markers would be in a file somewhere, if amnio was done. It could have been important if there was ever a lawsuit filed.

I had not thought of the dirty underwear but that is a thought.

 

[SewingDeb]

Ive done some searches on this, and it seems that amnio is performed for IVF pregnancies or is at least offered. I cant find a source that says how long these results are kept on file for...will keep looking.

What if they have DNA samples from the parents, isnt that also a way to test, like they do for paternity tests?? Maybe ive just been watching too much tv..?

They do take DNA samples from parents to match with bodies. Didn't Kate and Gerry give DNA swabs at some point? I think I remember reading that in an article.

 

[Betsy]

They do take DNA samples from parents to match with bodies. Didn't Kate and Gerry give DNA swabs at some point? I think I remember reading that in an article.

I think that's more so they can identify the body, should Maddie ever be found. But how would Maddie's DNA be different than her twin siblings' if they are only taking samples from the parents?

 

[Rhett]

Colomom, I thought I had read all of the posts but I guess not. Could you direct me to the posts from your friend that was in Portugal recently? Thank you. Rhett

 

[jacobean]

Ok, this makes me wonder something else. I am assuming that an IVF baby would have a different parent ? Or are they both her biological parents ? Then perhaps the siblings DNA could be quite different.

Hi Edwards20 - sorry took me a while to answer....had to go searching....apparently, it depends on the reason for infertility, the process of ivf is combining the sperm and egg outside of the womb, so you can use a donor or not depending on why you need the ivf in the first place....

I found this info at the link below, i dont know a thing about ivf so i found it quite interesting....

https://simplyivf.com/In-Vitro_101.html

 

[Rhett]

Also, I just read the latest on the thread translated from the Portugal news. In the piece it mentions that the cadaver dog hit upon a trail in the cupboard. I have heard this mentioned before and wondered what is a cupboard in this instance? Could someone answer that for me?

 

[jacobean]

They do take DNA samples from parents to match with bodies. Didn't Kate and Gerry give DNA swabs at some point? I think I remember reading that in an article.

Hi SewingDeb! Im sure i saw it somewhere in one of the earlier threads, but i cant find it in all the links - they also tested the straw on the drink from the little girl in Belgium so they must have had a source for comparison quite early on, i checked the DNA thread but didnt see anything about this particularly...

 

[pinto]

Also, I just read the latest on the thread translated from the Portugal news. In the piece it mentions that the cadaver dog hit upon a trail in the cupboard. I have heard this mentioned before and wondered what is a cupboard in this instance? Could someone answer that for me?

I believe it's what Americans would call a closet.

 

[glezell]

Ok, this makes me wonder something else. I am assuming that an IVF baby would have a different parent ? Or are they both her biological parents ? Then perhaps the siblings DNA could be quite different.

Ok, I have done two IVF/ICSI (injecting the sperm into the egg), so lets see if I can answer some questions...

Just because you have IVF, does not mean you have the need for an amnio any more than the general population. Depends on your reason for doing the IVF. If you have genetic issues (family historys of genetic problems or genetic problems that are inconsistent with being able to fertilize an egg or continue growing an embryo, downs, trisomy 18, etc) then you would be more likely to have an amnio, if you so chose. Alot of time, when you do an IVF and have genetic issues you can do pregenetic testing. They can take one cell of an embryo and test it before transferring it back to the uterus, making an amnio less necessary. otherwise, an IVF pregnancy is treated as a regular pregnancy and it in itself does not elevate a pregnancy to high risk.

IVF does NOT mean that you did not use each spouses egg/sperm. My husband and I both did. It depends again why you are doing IVF. I didn't ovulate, but my eggs are fine, so we just bypass the ovulation issue with ivf. Donor comes in when woman does not produce eggs or are not a good quality or when a man has no sperm or his sperm cannot fertilize an egg, or neither can conceive and both are donated or embryos themselves are donated.

Hope that cleared it up some....

ETA:

(Not that it relates to the case, but just an interesting tidbit)

Madeleine and the twins could have even been created during the same IVF. If there were left over embryos from Madeliene's ivf, they could have been frozen and used to conceive the twins. They would be no more than siblings and DNA no more similar, just a interesting dynamic of IVF.

 

[BethInAK]

I think that Madeleines body was removed in that car before dinner that night when the McCanns were not being observed not 25 days later. Either Gerry borrowed it from the friend who had it or the friend drove the body away. The fact that the McCanns were being watched & could not have hidden the body later is a total smokescreen.

if all the doors were left open, presumably so they could check on the kids, then he would be able to just go get the keys and take the car.

 

[BethInAK]

They can take DNA from the parents and figure out of the DNA in the car is the child of the parents. They could also take dna from the twins and see if its the same as the dna in the car and show that its not theirs.

more simply, they take a hair from madeleines pillow.