General Discussion Thread #2

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
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I have access I have already marked it for recording on Sky Plus....will report back.

BTW, during a dinner out with friends last night, I was told that we have the BBC on cable here in Los Angeles. So I suppose the rest of the USA does too.

Someone mentioned that Time-Warner Cable is just one cable company that carries it. Time-Warner just happens to be my cable carrier. However, not all local affiliates will broadcast the BBC.

So, if you get cable, check your viewing guide. They just may have BBC.

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This excerpt is very annoying to read:

The source told The Sun: 'He's been given a cell to himself at the police station but there are criminals in cells around him and he doesn't belong there. There are police concerns over his mental state.'



Who says he doesn't 'belong' there?


Also, note the article was published three weeks ago on February 15th [the day after the murder]. A lot has changed.

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I've been once next to a man who got hit on head by bat and to tell you that his head didn't get smashed. He got hit from behind as we were staying in circle and he felt the sharp pain, his head looked normal until we saw blood coming out behind his ears. When I looked closer I saw like little crack and because English is my second language to explain better this: it looked like when you cut watermelon and green top start opening to se little red inside. That is how I saw a bit of his brain and freaked out so my husband took him to hospital. We got told by hospital staff that head is so strong and inside between scull and actuall brain is another movable thing which protects the brain from injury. So he got so many stitches.

So if OP hit Reeva by bet she would be able to ran to toilet and there wouldn't be much blood on the bet but probably some blood would start going down her hair and falling on her shoulders

In my mind if a man is raging at a woman with a cricket bat, he might hit her more than once. I have never thought he hit her only once. But who knows? He might not have hit her with the cricket bat as that has not been confirmed yet but I would not have put it past him to do that.

Because in the Mirror article, it said that the police are now saying that whether he had his legs on or not does not matter now. This tells me that there is no correlation between the shots through the door and the bullet wounds in Reeva.

I can't help thinking that the violence occurred to Reeva in the bedroom with the cricket bat first then a shot to the back of her head into that fracture to cover that up then two more shots - hip and arm. That's the THREE the neighbours heard.

In my current theory, Reeva is now dead.

17 minutes silence. Maybe phones people and decides he can fake intruder story by carrying her to the bathroom slumping her behind the door of the toilet as I do not think she was sitting on the toilet nor was the door locked.

He then fired 3 shots through the door to make it look as if he aimed at the intruder but they have not matched up.

He then gets the cricket bat to knock down the door to cover that evidence and now they have pieced it together nothing matches up. These bullets through the door were possibly not the bullets which hit Reeva.

He then places bullets strategically and carries her body acroos the bedroom and down the stairs to cover up where she actually was.

After all that, I cannot imagine she would still have been alive in that toilet.

He thus messed up the crime scene and lied about he still being alive while he carried her down the stairs. I do not know about the gurgling sounds but that could have been what a reported imagined.

I now see this as a multi-stage cover up murder

Domestic violence with cricket bat

Feels guilty so has to cover that up by killing her with 3 shots

He then thinks of intruder story to cover that up

Carries her to bathroom slumps her behind toilet door

Shoots 3 more times through the door

Has to cover that up because bullets through door do not match bullets through Reeva

He strategically places bullets to cover up shots in bedroom placing one in the toilet, flushes it but it does not move. He thinks it has gone down.

So OP decides to get cricket bat to belt the door down to destroy evidence of where bullet holes are.

Has to cover up the fact that Reeva actually died in the bedroom and also her position in toilet

So he picks her up and carries her across the bedroom to explain blood there and down the stairs justifying this by pretending she is still alive and he is going to take her to the hospital himself as he has the car engine running. He pretends to do CPR on her downstairs to pretend she was still alive.

The gurgling sounds heard by the paramedics could be imagined or false reporting.

I am sure there are many holes in this scenario so would like your input.
 
I think he blames Reeva for putting him in his awful situation, I mean it was she who phoned and asked to spend the evening together.....If Reeva hadn't have done that none of this would have happened.


All abusive relationships are like this.

I have no doubt that OJ was furious that Nicole put him in the situation where he had to kill her.

:notgood:

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I'd like to know if you think the fact that this happened on Valentine's Day is just a coincidence.
 
The gurgling sounds heard by the paramedics could be imagined or false reporting.

I am sure there are many holes in this scenario so would like your input.

I can see some of your theory. But to me it just seems too complicated.

He is not a genius nor a master assassin, he didn't go to college for greater learning, he just ran track and played. And he had less than 17 minutes.

I say that very respectfully, only because you requested input. :cupcake:
 
This is very interesting. I remember reading that neighbors found OP outside the bathroom with RS, and I remember a separate story saying the pumps from her heart beats are indicated by the blood spatters heading down the stairs. Were either of these scenarios discussed during testimony at the hearing?

No they were not. The bail hearing is not a trial. The Prosecution does not want to reveal everything because the defence can then pick it to pieces plus investigations were still ongoing.

Normally a bail hearing takes less than two hours. But because OP wanted to get out on bail, he wrote an affidavit which had to be read out and then argued as to whether he was a flight risk or not. I think this took the Prosecution by surprise because this is rarely done at this stage because then the defendant is locked in to it. On the surface, his intruder story may have looked like a credible story to most South Africans and many believed it - at least intially.

This then took 4 days and Judge Nair was very slow in his deliberations. Botha was made to look like a fool as he had not expected to be questioned on evidence. He now sees himself as a scapegoat and was way out of his depth. He had not predicted that he would have to answer questions from the defence so he wass not prepared. He was then removed with the reason or excuse that he was facing attempted murder allegations himself and his credibility was zero. Many think he could have been bribed by OP so OP would get off on bail.
 
Oscar is a gentle guy, says friend

February 17 2013 at 02:24pm
By CHARMEL BOWMAN
Comment on this story

Reuters
Oscar Pistorius arrives on the track before his men's 200m T44 classification heat at the Olympic Stadium at the London 2012 Paralympic Games in this September 1, 2012, file photograph. The South African sports star has been charged in connection with the shooting of his girlfriend.
Related Stories
Tales of Oscar's temper and threats
Johannesburg - Race horse trainer Mike Azzie, a close friend of Oscar Pistorius, said he warned the Paralympian to “settle down with a plain Jane like his mother as the Barbie dolls would get him into trouble, but he didn’t listen”.

A tearful and emotional Azzie, who co-owns R3.6 million race horse Potala Palace with Pistorius, said their relationship went well beyond being business partners.

“Oscar grew up in front of my eyes. He was in form one to five with my twin boys at Pretoria Boys’ High,” he said. “He would come on family holidays down the coast with us. It was through my sons that Oscar got involved with horses,” said Azzie, breaking down in tears.

“It’s difficult because I knew both families. Reeva’s father is a horse trainer as well, so I knew him. It is a parent’s worst fear to have to bury their children, but this is just so uncharacteristic of Oscar.”

Pistorius also has shares in a horse, Tiger Canon, with Jessica Slack, granddaughter of Bridget Oppenheimer.

Azzie said everyone was focusing on the bad and forgetting all the good Pistorius had done.


This trainer was on Australian tv version 'beauty and the blade runner' something like that, so everything he said a few weeks ago on that show is reprinted today by Uk Mirror and they only added that Oscar is now suicidal. If someone can post that from "60 minutes" what was shown in Australia, thanks.
Also how rude of this trainer Mike to call Reeva "barbie doll" and implicate that she was a truble by being blond and beautiful and he said that he new her father, what an insult.
 
In answer to Zina whose remarks are in bold.

7. They also confirmed that two dogs were in the grounds of the house when the shooting happened and there was a ladder, as Pistorius had described.
His statement was: “There are no burglar bars across the bathroom window and I knew contractors who worked at my house had left the ladders outside.”
The men worked on a Jacuzzi on one of Pistorius’s balconies and their ladder was found lying on the floor. The whole estate where Pistorius lives bristles with hi-tech security plus armed guards and dogs. The last incident was an inside job – a robbery at gunpoint in 2011 which involved a rogue guard.

But wouldn't the dogs have barked at the intruder?

Not sure I understand this correctly. .......The last incident probably wasn't at Oscar's property and I don't know if dogs would bark at a rogue guard if he was actually employed as a guard, got the job deliberately in order to do robbery

I put the whole article in clusters on the same type of topic as information was scattered everywhere. This one was about intruders but there are two stories.

OP's intruder story was where I wondered why the two dogs did not bark when the so-called intruder climbed up the ladder and entered OP's bathroom.

The second story was about a previous rogue guard in 2011 but it did not occur at OP's house but he might use that to give his story credence.
 
One possible answer is that they found something more from forensic or other results which may come back which indicates that he murdered RS
Another which I am thinking for long time is that OP broke the door to see if RS is still alive and not to help her but to finish her off, that means the last shot/shots was fired from close distance and not trough the door. Even maybe the one bullet which was found in the toilet which head her brain traces.
 
Oscar is a gentle guy, says friend

February 17 2013 at 02:24pm
By CHARMEL BOWMAN
Comment on this story

Reuters
Oscar Pistorius arrives on the track before his men's 200m T44 classification heat at the Olympic Stadium at the London 2012 Paralympic Games in this September 1, 2012, file photograph. The South African sports star has been charged in connection with the shooting of his girlfriend.
Related Stories
Tales of Oscar's temper and threats
Johannesburg - Race horse trainer Mike Azzie, a close friend of Oscar Pistorius, said he warned the Paralympian to “settle down with a plain Jane like his mother as the Barbie dolls would get him into trouble, but he didn’t listen”.

A tearful and emotional Azzie, who co-owns R3.6 million race horse Potala Palace with Pistorius, said their relationship went well beyond being business partners.

“Oscar grew up in front of my eyes. He was in form one to five with my twin boys at Pretoria Boys’ High,” he said. “He would come on family holidays down the coast with us. It was through my sons that Oscar got involved with horses,” said Azzie, breaking down in tears.

“It’s difficult because I knew both families. Reeva’s father is a horse trainer as well, so I knew him. It is a parent’s worst fear to have to bury their children, but this is just so uncharacteristic of Oscar.”

Pistorius also has shares in a horse, Tiger Canon, with Jessica Slack, granddaughter of Bridget Oppenheimer.

Azzie said everyone was focusing on the bad and forgetting all the good Pistorius had done.


This trainer was on Australian tv version 'beauty and the blade runner' something like that, so everything he said a few weeks ago on that show is reprinted today by Uk Mirror and they only added that Oscar is now suicidal. If someone can post that from "60 minutes" what was shown in Australia, thanks.
Also how rude of this trainer Mike to call Reeva "barbie doll" and implicate that she was a truble by being blond and beautiful and he said that he new her father, what an insult.

BIB Agreed!!!!!

Here is the video:

http://abcnews.go.com/watch/2020/SH559026/VDKA0_8ovt382t/2020-301-the-fast-times-of-oscar-pistorius
 
One possible answer is that they found something more from forensic or other results which may come back which indicates that he murdered RS
Another which I am thinking for long time is that OP broke the door to see if RS is still alive and not to help her but to finish her off, that means the last shot/shots was fired from close distance and not trough the door. Even maybe the one bullet which was found in the toilet which head her brain traces.

Sorry this was my answer why prosecutors said that door is not imported anymore for them.
 
Also, note the article was published three weeks ago on February 15th [the day after the murder]. A lot has changed.

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That was his own attitude and that of others in the beginning, "I/he does not belong in prison". Now he still thinks that but few think he is innocent any more.
 
Sorry this was my answer why prosecutors said that door is not imported anymore for them.

To clarify: WO Both did testify that the door has four bullet holes, and the trajectory of the shots was downward. Also, the trajectory confirmed that OP fired at the door on the diagonal, standing in front of the sink.
 
I'd like to know if you think the fact that this happened on Valentine's Day is just a coincidence.

Well he was obsessed with her, Mr. Myers and others had to tell him to back off, turn it down a notch.

And he had been dating Samantha Taylor for a long time. Here is a video of the them together, highly choreographed and scripted for a television program:

Oscar Pistorius and girlfriend in Seychelles (FULL INSERT) - YouTube

Ms. Taylor is very petite, sweet, and very adoring of OP. I believe that he really dominated that relationship. And perhaps he wanted the same accommodations from Reeva; but she was "just not that in to him" this soon, she was the single, "independent," blooming professionally Reeva, not the submissive Ms. Taylor. Just my thoughts... :-)
 
The Hip Shot

I will write perhaps another first here.

A plausibility argument on the (initial) hip shot.

Some first reports, such as in City Press--whose editor said "several police sources" vetted everything he has written-- had the hip shot as occurring in the bedroom and either being the 1st assault or immediately after a bat strike.

Police or forensics people who told this to the press perhaps based that on the following. Tremendous bleeding from that hip shot, as the heart was strong at that point. Later shots had minimal bleeding due to either weak heart, or brain, or previous blood loss from 1st shot--again after 17 minutes of NOT being treated by the scheming OP.

it works for me Shane, yet we've had no indication of whether or not there was blood IN the bedroom nor where.
 
I'd like to know if you think the fact that this happened on Valentine's Day is just a coincidence.

I have no idea how long OP could have been premeditating this crime as I see multiple cover ups which took some planning.

But if he was angry with her a day or two before, he could have planned this to happen on Valentine's Day to show his absolute hatred of her when she was hoping via her tweets for a romantic surprise.

I have started wondering about this lately as possibly having been planned more in advance than we might have thought before.

Do we have evidence that she was the one who actually phoned him to change their plans as they were each going out with their same sex friends on the 13th originally? And she was going to give a talk on the 14th. Or could he have phoned her?

I have been thinking of the ladders being there. Now if I had had work done on my place and I was security conscious, I would have made sure those ladders were put away. The ladders give credence to his story.

He did not have a gift for her.

Maybe they had had a lover's tiff and they had called it off but had not told anyone yet - maybe he proposed and she refused.

He could have been brooding ever since and suffering from narcissistic injury. He thinks, "if I can't have her, nobody will". He starts to plan her demise and thinks of the intruder story for the next time she comes to his house.

She might have told him she just wants to be friends. As she had already ordered the photo frame for Valentine's Day before they split, she phones him to see him to give him the gift. He invites her over for dinner. She had not planned to stay as they were just good friends now. He tries to get her to change her mind about marriage but she does not change her mind. He refuses to let her go and locks her in the bedroom and the rest is history......
 
I have no idea how long OP could have been premeditating this crime as I see multiple cover ups which took some planning.

But if he was angry with her a day or two before, he could have planned this to happen on Valentine's Day to show his absolute hatred of her when she was hoping via her tweets for a romantic surprise.

I have started wondering about this lately as possibly having been planned more in advance than we might have thought before.

Do we have evidence that she was the one who actually phoned him to change their plans as they were each going out with their same sex friends on the 13th originally? And she was going to give a talk on the 14th. Or could he have phoned her?

I have been thinking of the ladders being there. Now if I had had work done on my place and I was security conscious, I would have made sure those ladders were put away. The ladders give credence to his story.

He did not have a gift for her.

Maybe they had had a lover's tiff and they had called it off but had not told anyone yet - maybe he proposed and she refused.

He could have been brooding ever since and suffering from narcissistic injury. He thinks, "if I can't have her, nobody will". He starts to plan her demise and thinks of the intruder story for the next time she comes to his house.


She might have told him she just wants to be friends. As she had already ordered the photo frame for Valentine's Day before they split, she phones him to see him to give him the gift. He invites her over for dinner. She had not planned to stay as they were just good friends now. He tries to get her to change her mind about marriage but she does not change her mind. He refuses to let her go and locks her in the bedroom and the rest is history......
:rocker:

You are good!

Reeva was 30, OP 26. Reeva had just gotten out of an abusive relationship, and at 30 she was blossoming and independent, not in any need of or in a rush for a new long-term relationship. OP had lost his long term relationship where he could dominate a pretty blonde, make her submissive or subservient to his mega-life and desires, and he wanted to fill that hole in his life. He was rushing for a new relationship like the one he had with Samantha Taylor. Anyway...

Please permit me to change a couple of things from your post for my thought process:

Maybe they had had a lover's tiff or - maybe he proposed and she refused and he went to bed angry, she upset.

He could have been brooding ever since and suffering from narcissistic injury and he starts the arguing all over again at 1:00 AM. It reaches a peak at 3:20 AM and he thinks, "If I can't have her, nobody will" and he kills her in a rage. He starts to plan the intruder story to cover up his actions.
 
I respectfully submit that should I be released on bail, my release shall not disturb the public order or undermine the proper functioning of the criminal justice system.

I will comply with such conditions as the above Honourable Court may wish to impose....

--------------------------
... for a period of at least 2 weeks when I will then seek to have all these conditions removed.
 
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