General Discussion Thread #4

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

If a child had come up with as many holes in a story as OP did, he/she would have been sent to bed with no pudding!!

Respectfully snipped

I agree. Doesn't matter how some media , his family and PR try to paint him,
people in general have common sense imo. ... How many gold medals make One Reeva anyway ? Some people surely will go on supprting him nevertheless . Even :furious: has followers lease:
:seeya:

 

[Estelle]

In an interview in August 2012, OP, while at the Olympic Games in London, said this:

http://fandaily.info/celebrity-coup...ar-pistorius-girlfriend-or-is-it-vicky-miles/

God, my family, my friends, my girlfriend [Vicky Miles] and fast cars make me happy. You can do as much as you wish, but it will always be more difficult if you don’t walk with God. Vicky and I have been together since school days. We did take a short break. She’s amazing and supports me without getting too involved in my athletics.

By the time I’m 50, I hope to be married with a family, dog and white picket fence around my house. Owning a restaurant is a dream. I love food and working with people.

But it seems that Oscar and Vicky broke up for good this year, they remain friends but he is allegedly dating a stunning model now.

Oscar Pistorius’ new rumored girlfriend is Russian model Anastassia Khozissova.

33-year-old Anastassia was born in Saratov, Russia on April 16th, 1979, standing at 5’10 Khozissova is now living in New York and is part of the stunning models at Trump Models. She has been in campaigns for Lacroix, Valentino, Chanel, Christian Dior, Gianfranco Ferre, Prada, Alexander McQueen, Louis Vuitton, Dolce & Gabbana, Balengiaga, Roberto Cavalli, Marc Jacons, Lanvin, Vivienne Westwood, Ralph Rucci, Karl Lagerfeld, Chado and Ralph Lauren who considers her one of their favorite, dearest models.

As for her relationship with the Blade Runner it was reported that she met him in New York and have been dating for nearly two months, the New York Post reported that they were spotted in Chelsea holding hands

Then in October, he went to the Seychelles with Samantha Taylor.

On November 4, 2012, he took Reeva to the SA Sports Awards Ceremony. That was the day that he had the argument over Samantha Taylor as OP had heard that she had been dating Quinton de Burgh while he was in London! Quinton told OP that he had no right to claim that Samantha was his girlfriend.

So that is for women that OP dated in 2012 that we know about.

I was amazed to hear that he hoped to own a restaurant one day! Maybe he can run the prison restaurant! :floorlaugh:

 

[Estelle]

Botha: I'm just going to bullet through it.

The interview is actually given by his wife as he was at the same time giving an "exclusive" interview to US Vanity Fair.

He resigned from the police force after 24 years service and is now working for New Century Developments. She talks about the huge amount of criticism he has come under. Some are saying he was paid R1million to make the mistakes on the stand and that the Pistorius family helped him find his new job as AP is a huge player in the property development industry.

BIB I must say that that crossed my mind too. It seemed to me as if Botha must have been bribed to make the mistakes he did. :moo:

 

[Feynman]

The parade of girlfriends got me to thinking. We know OP has lived at Silverwoods since at least 2009 (because of the 2009 "incident"). That's 3-4 years. Presumably then a number of ladies have made it into the inner sanctum of OP's house, aka the bedroom. In all that time you would think OP would come to know well the sound - from the bedroom - a lady friend makes when she goes to the loo. I would think he would know this sound very well by Feb. 14 2013. It seems unlikey, doesn't it, that the first thing OP thinks of, after his adventure with the fan on the balcony, is "I hear a sound from the loo - omg, that's an intruder!" rather than "I hear a sound from the loo like I've heard a thousand times before - oh duh, that's Reeva."

 

[shane13]

Botha has now indicated that he will only testify again in Afrikaans.
Of course he can still get cut off by an attorney in any language.

But South Africa has this language uniqueness in that there are 11 official languages.

As wiki notes: "The most common language spoken at home by South Africans is Zulu (23 percent speak Zulu at home), followed by Xhosa (16 percent), and Afrikaans (14 percent). English is the fourth most common home language in the country (9.6%), but is understood in most urban areas and is (mainly for political reasons) the dominant language in government and the media."

Languages of South Africa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[whiterum]

The parade of girlfriends got me to thinking. We know OP has lived at Silverwoods since at least 2009 (because of the 2009 "incident"). That's 3-4 years. Presumably then a number of ladies have made it into the inner sanctum of OP's house, aka the bedroom. In all that time you would think OP would come to know well the sound - from the bedroom - a lady friend makes when she goes to the loo. I would think he would know this sound very well by Feb. 14 2013. It seems unlikey, doesn't it, that the first thing OP thinks of, after his adventure with the fan on the balcony, is "I hear a sound from the loo - omg, that's an intruder!" rather than "I hear a sound from the loo like I've heard a thousand times before - oh duh, that's Reeva."

His affidavit is totally implausible from start to finish and defies logic in what any person would do in this particular situation which he is describing.

As you say girlfriends sharing their partners bed do regularly get up and use the loo as OP would be well aware having had quite a few staying overnight sharing his bed, bathroom and toilet.

Why would it be any different with Reeva, why would a noise she supposedly made in the bathroom cause him on this occasion and no other to grab a pistol and shoot his current love through the toilet door multiple times, then have the gall to say "that's when it dawned on me " blah,blah,blah.

Can't believe anyone fell for that and this IMO obviously blatant liar to say the least, is free to walk the streets, go clubbing and seemingly do as he pleases.

 

[shane13]

Denise Stratford Murder in 2011 And Det. Botha

Det. Botha was on his way to interview or arrest a 2nd suspect in this killing when that minivan-taxi ran Botha and 2 other cops off the road, necessitating his trying to shoot out the tires.

Note that the article indicates that it might have been a security guard who committed the crime.
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Womans-body-found-in-sewage-tank-20111126-2

As of Feb 2013 though, no convictions, and Brandon Stratford—Ms. Stratford’s son—said “How the *advertiser censored** can Hilton Botha be in hot water when they where in pursuit of the second suspect in my moms murder trial!! The man was doing his work!! Lawyers like digging up dirt, yet they don’t find out the truth first…”
http://www.anorak.co.uk/348530/news...ubling-case-of-denise-stratfords-murder.html/

 

[Estelle]

In an interview in August 2012, OP, while at the Olympic Games in London, said this:

http://fandaily.info/celebrity-coupl...t-vicky-miles/

I had to laugh when OP said in this interview:

By the time I’m 50, I hope to be married with a family, dog and white picket fence around my house.

So in August 2012, he had no plans to marry at age 26/27yo and have a family! He still had 24 years of bachelorhood to go before he hit 50!

So why the talk of living together/marriage with Reeva in December - only four months later - and the talk of looking at houses with her a few weeks after they started dating? Apparently, they were only friends in November and started dating in December. I wonder if he led all the girls on like this or was Reeva a challenge for him as she kept friendly with other men so he upped his offer to try to get exclusive rights to her company? I have never felt his so-called feelings for Reeva were sincere, have you?

 

[kittychi]

In an interview in August 2012, OP, while at the Olympic Games in London, said this:

http://fandaily.info/celebrity-coupl...t-vicky-miles/

I had to laugh when OP said in this interview:

By the time I’m 50, I hope to be married with a family, dog and white picket fence around my house.

I wonder if he led all the girls on like this or was Reeva a challenge for him as she kept friendly with other men so he upped his offer to try to get exclusive rights to her company? I have never felt his so-called feelings for Reeva were sincere, have you?

<snipped>

BBM 1: I hope he meant that he would already have a family by then, meaning wife and children by that time, so perhaps being married by age 35 or 40?

BTW, a white picket fence would look really interesting in that Silver Woods neighborhood. :giggle:

BBM 2: IMO, she was discovering the huge chasm between them about maturity in a relationship. She was older, had been through much more in life...learned hard lessons in an abusive relationship, graduated law school, developing a new career. All he had been doing is running, training, developing muscles. He started out wealthy, had managers, as time went by he got more money, attention, pampering. All the girls, the cars and the lifestyle didn't leave him much time to do much self-discovery. There had to be a huge gap between them in that regard.

 

[Feynman]

His affidavit is totally implausible from start to finish and defies logic in what any person would do in this particular situation which he is describing.

As you say girlfriends sharing their partners bed do regularly get up and use the loo as OP would be well aware having had quite a few staying overnight sharing his bed, bathroom and toilet.

Why would it be any different with Reeva, why would a noise she supposedly made in the bathroom cause him on this occasion and no other to grab a pistol and shoot his current love through the toilet door multiple times, then have the gall to say "that's when it dawned on me " blah,blah,blah.

Can't believe anyone fell for that and this IMO obviously blatant liar to say the least, is free to walk the streets, go clubbing and seemingly do as he pleases.

I think "totally implausible" is too harsh. "Logic" has little to do with the mindset of OP according to the defense. The affidavit was put forth to do two things in my opinion: Frame OP's actions as 1. pretty much consistent with the crime scene and 2. those of a man gripped by fear, vulnerability, terror and horror (the actual words used).

Most arguments I see here of the form "It makes no sense that OP did X" almost play into the defense's hands, IMO, because most of the time X is something that happened after OP's brain became fevered (according to the defense). Sure it makes no sense: People do not make sense when they are panic-stricken, terrorized, etc.

That's why I wanted to look at something that happened before the alleged breakdown in OP's rational faculties: He was out on the balcony merrily fussing with the fan when he came back in and heard a noise. And what was that noise? A lady in the loo, the same noise he must have heard zillions of times before.

 

[kittychi]

Hilton removed the door from the house for safe keeping because of the amounts of money being offered for pictures of it. Carl found Hilton walking about the house 3 days after the murder when he arrived to give Hilton copies of the plans of the house and asked him why he was corrupting the scene because he was not wearing protective gear. He hadn't worn protective gear from the start because he didn't think it was necessary. Its essential when looking for DNA but OP acknowledged firing the shots and Reeva died at the scene.

<snipped>

IMO Its unbelievable that an experienced detective doesn't wear protective gear. The first time was lame enough, "Botha said he should have worn them, 'but they were not around'”. A second time? Of course people are suspicious of a payoff, especially now after his resignation and immediate new job. At the very least, it has the appearance of impropriety.

Its maddening. :maddening:

 

[Estelle]

<snipped>

IMO Its unbelievable that an experienced detective doesn't wear protective gear. The first time was lame enough, "Botha said he should have worn them, 'but they were not around'”. A second time? Of course people are suspicious of a payoff, especially now after his resignation and immediate new job. At the very least, it has the appearance of impropriety.

Its maddening. :maddening:

IMO Botha's behaviour smells of corruption - hence OP's lawyer was at the scene even before Botha. How many times have you heard that the suspect's lawyer arrives at the crime scene before the detective? I have never heard of it.

IMO OP's lawyer could have had a quiet word with Botha to contaminate the scene and make mistakes at the hearing then could have slipped some cash into Botha's pocket on the very first day - with more to come if he got OP off on bail. It did not take Botha long to get a new job either. I could believe that Uncle Arnold could have helped him.

 

[Mango33]

IMO Botha's behaviour smells of corruption - hence OP's lawyer was at the scene even before Botha. How many times have you heard that the suspect's lawyer arrives at the crime scene before the detective? I have never heard of it.

IMO OP's lawyer could have had a quiet word with Botha to contaminate the scene and make mistakes at the hearing then could have slipped some cash into Botha's pocket on the very first day - with more to come if he got OP off on bail. It did not take Botha long to get a new job either. I could believe that Uncle Arnold could have helped him.

Why do you think that OP's lawyer arrived before Botha? According to Botha's own testimony he arrived at 4:15 am and then Carl and the lawyer arrived not long after.

(We discussed arrival times of different people on the last thread and had a list of the likely sequence.)

 

[Estelle]

Why do you think that OP's lawyer arrived before Botha? According to Botha's own testimony he arrived at 4:15 am and then Carl and the lawyer arrived not long after.

(We discussed arrival times of different people on the last thread and had a list of the likely sequence.)

OK you are right. My memory failed me on this. I got confused with phone calls and arrival times.

But is it true that OP phoned the lawyer (or got Carl to do so) to get him to arrive at the crime scene (which is very unusual)?

Anyway, it does not matter who arrived first in what I am trying to speculate on here as long as they were there at the crime scene at the same time.

IMO Carl and/or the lawyer could have been phoned by OP and could have been told by OP (or they suggested it to OP) that the IO (whoever he was) could be corruptible so their modus operandi was to offer a bribe designed to get OP out on bail under the guise of being there to get access to OP's safe for the offshore accounts. Maybe OP had a stash of cash in that safe for them to use?

IMO Things are not always what they seem on the surface.

 

[Feynman]

There was some discussion earlier on whether OP's affadavit was "hearsay". I thought not, as hearsay usually is not admissible at trial, while it seemed to me the affadavit surely would be. (If not, then the defense would have a field day to concoct whatever fantastical story might deliver bail to the defendant, with no repercussions down the road). Here is a source that implies it is likey OP's affidavit will indeed be admissible at trial:

"While many have expressed surprise at the evidentiary scope, legal experts point out that sometimes opposing bail is a way for the prosecution in a case to gain valuable insights into what will constitute the defence&#8217;s case at trial. It is apparently customary for the prosecution to lay out more of its case at this stage, but if bail is being opposed, the defence has to bring more to the table to keep its client out of jail awaiting trial. Of course, then there are some difficult considerations about exactly how much to reveal on both sides &#8211; especially because the information given at this stage is generally admissible in the full trial."

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...on-top-after-roller-coaster-day/#.UW8LoXA2FiF

Disclaimer: I know little about SA law nor the credibility of this journalist.

 

[shane13]

I was taking another look at the Judge's ruling on the bail conditions reversal.

Judge Bam, seemed to say that because h's got money etc. that he wouldn't flee.

Funny I thought everything before that had the opposite rationale. That someone with the finances to be able to flee and make a go of it elsewhere was considered a flight risk and usually denied bail.

Especially for a charge of premediatated murder, and especially when he doesnt deny shooting her. And especially in a country that has recently had a high profile probable murderer escape justice in another country--Shrien Dewani.

 

[LaurieAClaase]

OK you are right. My memory failed me on this. I got confused with phone calls and arrival times.

But is it true that OP phoned the lawyer (or got Carl to do so) to get him to arrive at the crime scene (which is very unusual)?

'It helps a defendant when your lawyer arrives at the crime scene before 4.15am when the lead detective, Botha, himself arrives.' - Charles Waterstreet, a Sydney barrister
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/comment/only-pistorius-knows-the-whole-truth-20130223-2exzr.html#ixzz2QpA3U5Xl

 

[shane13]

The remarkable case of Musa &#8220;Muzi&#8221; Khumalo

We all know that DWO Hilton Botha was replaced by Divisional Commissioner of the Detective Service, Lt Gen Vinesh Moonoo. Everyone, including Botha, seems to have said good things about Moonoo.

But Moonoo himself has received some flak for his declaring the death of the remarkable Mr.Khumal a suicide. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...us-bail-hearing-day-three-as-it-happened.html

Khumalo was wanted for several years for murder and other crimes. For at least a year, he hid out as a Brig. in the Hawks (part of the National Police). He &#8220;won accolades for his &#8220;crime fighting successes&#8221;.

Sounds Dexterish to me. Dexter used his position with MMPD to facilitate killing who he wanted to (&#8212;mostly serial killers until recently.) Khumalo is also suspected of using his position in the Hawks to eliminate his enemies.http://www.newsday.co.zw/2012/12/04/bogus-cop-found-dead-in-cell/

Six hours after his arrest, Khumal was found hanging in his cell. It was labeled a suicide. And Lt Gen Vinesh Moonoo went on record as going along with that. The matter appears to still be under investigation.

Khumal had escaped several times before&#8230;

 

[Estelle]

It’s a race that fits the Blade Runner playbook: five authors working on three “definitive accounts” all hurtling towards one deadline.

The subject of this research-and-write-up contest is Oscar Pistorius. And that deadline is as soon after the conclusion of his murder trial as possible.

Here is a précis of three book contenders:

1. Mandy Wiener and Barry Bateman will write Behind the Door: The Oscar and Reeva Story which “will follow the background to the case, the events of the trial itself, and [take] a broader look at violence and criminal justice in South Africa”.

2. Jacques Steenkamp and Gavin Prins with No More Heroes: Oscar Pistorius’s Fall from Grace. “This is the definitive account of the murder case that will define this decade and, perhaps, the society we live in”. It “will also investigate broader social concerns: the high level of violent crime in SA, particularly against women and children; the controversial *matter of gun control; and the fallen-hero syndrome”. “Based on in-depth interviews with eyewitnesses, police officers, blood-spatter analysts and forensic experts who were involved at the scene of the crime, as well as family and friends of RS and OP, this book will uncover the actual events that led to Reeva’s death. It will expose the startling allegations of bribery and corruption that permeated the case just hours after the shooting, as well as Oscar’s alleged drug use.”

3. John Carlin is to write The Oscar Pistorius Story. The book will detail the rise and fall of OP.

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-04-19-...ius-story?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co

 

[Estelle]

The Oscar Pistorius trial LIVE

Six pages of the bail hearing for those who wish to refresh their minds about it.

http://live.firstpost.com/Event/The_Oscar_Pistorius_trial_LIVE?Page=0

Jacques Steenkamp was one of the tweeters on the trial and I am trying to find out if he was related to Reeva. That is how I came across this article.